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Pushsquare, “Reaction: PS5 Livestreams Are No Longer Speaking to the Fans Who Built the Brand”

You look at gutter junk like Concord and compare it to the beauty of Shadow of the Colossus and you can't help but think art that wants to pursue beauty is dead. Instead it's being replaced by a flashing lights casino made by executives.


Shadow of Colossus was a moderate success. It took GenDesign 11 years to release TLG. That game wasn’t successful, had they given a green light for another in the series.. this game would still be far off. GenDesign signed a deal with Epic games for this game in 2020, its 2024, there isn‘t a single proof of this game’s existence. It‘s not the type of game that can sustain Sony‘s revenues while they invest millions in games, they NEED GaaS.
 

MrRenegade

Banned
They will drown in money and lose their soul in the process. Maybe time to innovate on other fronts, and not use the gaming division as a lifeline for the whole fucking company. I still have PTSD from a Sony phone I bought years ago. It was a fucking nightmare.

Astro bot saved that stream. If Hulst had got his wish and shut team asobi we would have been in a nightmare of his and Jimmy's creation 😆
Fuck astro bot, it didn't gut anyone. That yellow bot from another showcase game was much better. That yellow fucking bot is Walle material. Astro bot will be ok for teenage children, but where are the heavy hitters for adults? When will Kratos again tear gods' heads and knee in the face innocents and watch in awe as they swallow their teeth and gulp their own blood? Also someone send a letter to Kojima to get his shit together and make some MGS worthy material that would make the youtube conspo-story idiots salivate.
 
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Scary thing is with the trajectory of the gaming industry, I could see Sony eventually getting a monopoly on the console market which will most likely lead to them becoming even more out of touch and nonchalant. Who knows what will happen if they lose direct, stiff competition that keeps them on their toes? What would really drive them to try harder?

Sony/SIE already have stiff competition. They just don't seem to really acknowledge it yet BECAUSE it's not direct competition like Xbox has been.

Nintendo. Steam. Even mobile. They're all indirect competitors and better at competing with PlayStation than Xbox has been for the past 10 years. But SIE seem to (erroneously IMO) think PC (specifically, platforms like Steam) are only complementary to PlayStation, when we know that's not true.

And it's not just us who have said this; even Jim Ryan, for as much hate he got from some, confessed PC was a competing platform with PlayStation before he retired. They guy who led PlayStation to its largest period of revenue, launch-aligned sales, and profits ever...said the same thing some of us have been saying for over a year now if not longer.

I'm not saying Sony can't leverage platforms like Steam, or mobile or even Nintendo & Xbox for some growth/expansion. But it has to be in strict moderation, and that's the one thing their PC side of that strategy completely lacks: moderation. They're basically giving Steam the full slate; their own console is a timed exclusive box and outside of GAAS for at least the next year the only 1P timed exclusive (from an internal studio) it'll have is a (highly polished) AA Astro Bot game.

One whole 1P non-GAAS exclusive for perhaps the next 18 months. That's it. I know they are going to have 2P exclusives with 3P devs like Death Stranding 2 within that time frame too, but it's still worth asking what the internal studios are up to that isn't GAAS.

I’m not talking about third party, I’m talking about first party…..Sony used to gets own first party JRPGs

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rogue-galaxy-201421092821_1.jpg
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TBF, Rogue Galaxy was developed by Level 5, but SIE do own the IP, and it was a co-development/co-funding thing.

But yeah, especially in a world where it's increasingly likely future big FF games (let alone Persona, SMT, Dragon Quest etc.) JRPGs won't be console exclusives any more, SIE need to get back to their own IPs in this regard. These games don't need HFW or Spiderman 2 budgets at all; just reasonable enough ones with the right teams and right support to deliver great quality.

1P needs that kind of variety and it's usually better to do it with directly owned IP vs. those that aren't.
 
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Fabieter

Member
Bayonetta's trademark belongs to...

Well, your point is now clear, I think I shouldn't expect many people digging through development stuff and all (not a jab at all lol, sorry if it sounds like that).
Let's see if Astro Bot is a wake up call for both parties involved, and I hope so given the general excitement around it!

Well you know fair well that's its not 100% comparable but go on giving sony credit for 3p games ;).
 

Sony

Nintendo
Despite this criticism you don't see it in their number. People need to realize that PS5 is becoming a household item to own, or any Playstation for that matter, next to the TV. That audience doesn't care about these game reveals.
 

Three

Member
I’m not talking about third party, I’m talking about first party…..Sony used to gets own first party JRPGs

518F8W34dXL._SX300_SY300_QL70_ML2_.jpg
Developed by Level 5 (third party)
Developed by level 5 (third party)
Developed by Game Republic Inc (third party)

These are first party games developed by Japanese third party studios. No different to what's happening today with things like Rise of the Ronin.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
They will drown in money and lose their soul in the process. Maybe time to innovate on other fronts, and not use the gaming division as a lifeline for the whole fucking company. I still have PTSD from a Sony phone I bought years ago. It was a fucking nightmare.


Fuck astro bot, it didn't gut anyone. That yellow bot from another showcase game was much better. That yellow fucking bot is Walle material. Astro bot will be ok for teenage children, but where are the heavy hitters for adults? When will Kratos again tear gods' heads and knee in the face innocents and watch in awe as they swallow their teeth and gulp their own blood? Also someone send a letter to Kojima to get his shit together and make some MGS worthy material that would make the youtube conspo-story idiots salivate.

I'm not going to insult astro bot. I think it looks amazing but you do have a point with the last part of your paragraph.

The problem is, Sony is the Disney of video games right now. They are performing just like Disney at the peak of their super hero success.

The problem is, people move on if they get fed up and the cracks are showing. Sony isn't getting a free ride from their fans anymore. Of course, some are hardcore dedicated to whatever they are fed and will defend them but those people that just turn up will be there until an alternative comes along. Microsoft are dead as a platform and are now third party so Sony should be fine until something else comes along.

The issue they may have is the younger audience will just buy playstations and play third party Gaas titles. So while spend is up on dlc and microtransactions, sony will not be able to support their studios like naughty dog. Budgets will be cut back and studios closed.

Potentially, this could be a really rough future for us oldies. But, businesses don't care as long as the moneys coming in.
 

Fabieter

Member
Developed by Level 5 (third party)

Developed by level 5 (third party)

Developed by Game Republic Inc (third party)

These are first party games developed by Japanese third party studios. No different to what's happening today with things like Rise of the Ronin.

Actually owning the IP is pretty big difference tho.
 

EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
Developed by Level 5 (third party)

Developed by level 5 (third party)

Developed by Game Republic Inc (third party)

These are first party games developed by Japanese third party studios. No different to what's happening today with things like Rise of the Ronin.

Well.....that isn't what Dan means and that isn't what many of us see 3rd party as btw

Sony owns those IP, they contracted Level 5.

Thats like saying Ratchet and Clank or Sly Cooper isn't first party, as those games where made during a time where Sony didn't even own Insomniac or Sucker Punch (ironically, Sony didn't even buy Sucker Punch until that team was deep in the InFamous series, but prior to that, its not as if people called Sly 3rd party, that makes no sense and we never really used that term that way)

Sony bought Insomniac in 2020, at the time they had like 11 plus Ratchet Games....sir, we never stated those games where 3rd party or anything of the sort.

So if its owned by Sony, its first party. They can contract who every they wish to create something for them, but if the IP is owned by them, its first party. This is generally how we've seen this term and this is what Danjin44 Danjin44 is trying to say, there was a time where Sony OWNED and funded JRPGs.

White Knight Chronicles
Wild Arms
Dark Cloud
Folklore
 

ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
I’m not talking about third party, I’m talking about first party…..Sony used to gets own first party JRPGs

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You pointed out 4 titles across 3 generations. I know there was more (some developed internally by Sony, a lot of them not), but I can post just as many western Sony published titles across their history, if not more. And the fact is that when the first party vertical infrasgructuee was created of internal Sony studios it has always been majority western.

There's also a reason why I referred to Persona in the first instance. It has to be said that very few care or cared about a lot of Sony's JRPG portfolio in comparison to FF, Persona, even the likes of Tales and such. Everybody performatively mourns for Japan Studios, but name a single property they created that really stands amongst the greatest and longest sustained even going back to the PS2. Accounting for the fact that those properties mostly pale in comparison to the number and size of western IP.

According to some spin doctors here, that never happened, you know. And if it did, "no one remembers them", "who cares" or those games "were worse" than what we get now. Remember to step back in line and be a conformist, Danjin.
The only relevant things are the bolded. And guess what, they are relevant. Gaming is not a charity or an endeavor for your definition of high art. It's business.

I'm not wholly opposed to first party JRPGs, but I'm not in support of them by virtue of their country of origin, and it's silly to think that it's just a case of Sony or anyone else snapping their fingers and making a studio and notable IP with infinite resources that don't exist.

there was a time where Sony OWNED and funded JRPGs.
The point is that to do so now would require building a studio from the ground up in a country with a waning development scene, given time and money unlike anything that flew back in the 90s and 2000s.
 
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Three

Member
Actually owning the IP is pretty big difference tho.
Well.....that isn't what Dan means and that isn't what many of us see 3rd party as btw

Sony owns those IP, they contracted Level 5.

Thats like saying Ratchet and Clank or Sly Cooper isn't first party, as those games where made during a time where Sony didn't even own Insomniac or Sucker Punch (ironically, Sony didn't even buy Sucker Punch until that team was deep in the InFamous series, but prior to that, its not as if people called Sly 3rd party, that makes no sense and we never really used that term that way)

Sony bought Insomniac in 2020, at the time they had like 11 plus Ratchet Games....sir, we never stated those games where 3rd party or anything of the sort.

So if its owned by Sony, its first party. They can contract who every they wish to create something for them, but if the IP is owned by them, its first party. This is generally how we've seen this term and this is what Danjin44 Danjin44 is trying to say, there was a time where Sony OWNED and funded JRPGs.

White Knight Chronicles
Wild Arms
Dark Cloud
Folklore
I know it's a first party game, so is Rise of the Ronin. My point was that those games he listed are no different to the ones Sony makes with third parties today. I was referring to this statement :
Other than Astro Bot there is not much first party Japanese games like used to in PS2, PS3 and even PS4.

PS5 first party mostly dominated by western games.
I was saying there are if you count those developed by third parties as first party games such as Rise of the Ronin like he has done for Dark cloud and so on.
 
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nial

Member
You pointed out 4 titles across 3 generations. I know there was more (some developed internally by Sony, a lot of them not)
Actually, there have only been three across Sony's entire history!
The Legend of Dragoon (1999, PS1), or "we have Final Fantasy at home".
Shachou Eiyuuden: The Eagle Shooting Heroes (2000, PS1), which no one here knows it exists.
Demon's Souls (2020, PS5), a game originally developed by From Software.
 

Fabieter

Member
I know it's a first party game, so is Rise of the Ronin. My point was that those games he listed are no different to the ones Sony makes with third parties today. I was referring to this statement :

I was saying there are if you count those developed by third parties as first party games such as Rise of the Ronin like he has done for Dark cloud and so on.

Rise isn't owned by sony. We know so much. Koei also said they need it to sell big time to meet expectations which means to me that sony just gave some funding and assistance.
 

NonPhixion

Member
Rise isn't owned by sony. We know so much. Koei also said they need it to sell big time to meet expectations which means to me that sony just gave some funding and assistance.
Where was it said that KOEI own the IP? It seems more likely that Sony owns it due to the large investment and being publisher of the IP.
 

nial

Member
Rise isn't owned by sony. We know so much. Koei also said they need it to sell big time to meet expectations which means to me that sony just gave some funding and assistance.
"But Bayonetta 2 is indeed owned by Nintendo, I swear it's different!"
However, Kamiya's Twitter account later stated that he might release the sequel if Bayonetta sold well. Bayonetta 2 was revealed during a Nintendo Direct on September 13, 2012. The reason for the game's Wii U exclusivity was because Nintendo stepped in with additional funding after it was shelved by Sega.
Also...
Sony XDev works with external studios across the globe, providing production, management, design and publishing support, among other services.

Yasuda told the PlayStation Blog last week that Sony has been supporting Team Ninja since it started work on the project seven years ago.
 

Fabieter

Member
"But Bayonetta 2 is indeed owned by Nintendo, I swear it's different!"

Also...


Xdev also helped wirh stellar blade. Do they own that one too ;).

Where was it said that KOEI own the IP? It seems more likely that Sony owns it due to the large investment and being publisher of the IP.

Checking trademarks there is only koei tecmo listed. Publishing a game means nothing.

It's nice that they help a bit with 3p publishers but I hope they do more in asia in the future.
 

nial

Member
So shift up can't do anything with stellae blade 1 without sony. Interesting!
Yes, that's how it works. Not sure what you're trying to do, but it isn't working.
Shift Up cannot do anything they want (without permission) with a project funded and produced by Sony, them owning the IP changes nothing.
Guess which company gains most of the money from each Stellar Blade copy sold.
 
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Fabieter

Member
Yes, that's how it works. Not sure what you're trying to do, but it isn't working.
Shift Up cannot do anything they want (without permission) with a project funded and produced by Sony, them owning the IP changes nothing.
Guess which company gains most of the money from each Stellar Blade copy sold.

I dont know can you show prove that sony is owning both games? You know its okay to critizise a company for wrong decisions ;).
 

nial

Member
I dont know can you show prove that sony is owning both games?
No company is stupid enough to fund, produce AND publish a game just so anyone else can do whatever they want with it.
You know its okay to critizise a company for wrong decisions ;).
?
 

Fabieter

Member
No company is stupid enough to fund, produce AND publish a game just so anyone else can do whatever they want with it.

?

They basically did the same for no man sky without having any control over it.

Yes I know that people at Sony worked at the games but that isn't the point. Its still a 3p games owned by a 3p, nothing like their previous Japanese gaming ambitions. And that's the big fuck up for current sony leaders.
 

nial

Member
They basically did the same for no man sky without having any control over it.
No, they didn't. Nice attempt at lying, though.
It was self-published by Hello Games from the very beginning, even on PS4.
Yes I know that people at Sony worked at the games but that isn't the point. Its still a 3p games owned by a 3p
Only the IPs, not the games themselves.
nothing like their previous Japanese gaming ambitions
You mean like...?
You're talking about the company that produced 6 Popolocrois games, 14 Bleach games, and even one-offs like Aquanaut's Holiday: Hidden Memories and Bomberman: Bakufuu Sentai Bombermen, all IPs that they don't own.
 

Fabieter

Member
No, they didn't. Nice attempt at lying, though.
It was self-published by Hello Games from the very beginning, even on PS4.

Only the IPs, not the games themselves.

You mean like...?

I own the games since the beginning on ps4(I know that's a good reason for calling me stupid). It was definitely published by sony.

Well do you have any prove that they own the games?

So you think their current approach to japanese games is better than on ps1 to the ps4 days like wtf.
 

nial

Member
I own the games since the beginning on ps4(I know that's a good reason for calling me stupid). It was definitely published by sony.
Yes, they distributed the physical release (something Nintendo even does with the Switch versions of games like Skyrim), Hello Games still self-published it on PSN in August 2016. You didn't have XDEV involvement on that project, either.
Well do you have any prove that they own the games?
It's like I've been talking with a fucking wall.
So you think their current approach to japanese games is better than on ps1 to the ps4 days like wtf.
Can you even follow the conversation? You're not even adressing the fact that them producing and publishing games from IPs they don't own is literally nothing new, and has been happening since the PS1 era.
 
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Roxkis_ii

Member
We will not be getting E3 type show anymore. Games take too long to make, so we aren't going to get banger announcements anymore. Just one game at a time now and 3rd parties.
 

Fabieter

Member
Yes, they distributed the physical release (something Nintendo even does with the Switch versions of games like Skyrim), Hello Games still self-published it on PSN in August 2016. You didn't have XDEV involvement on that project, either.

It's like I've been talking with a fucking wall.

Can you even follow the conversation? You're not even adressing the fact that them producing and publishing games from IPs they don't own is literally nothing new, and has been happening since the PS1 era.

They heavily marketed the game and published the ps4 version.

Yes they did stuff thes didnt own but not mostly exclusivly. Their current focus sucks ass.
 

nial

Member
They heavily marketed the game
Just like with Final Fantasy XVI.
and published the ps4 version.
Holy shit, you can't read.
Yes, they distributed the physical release (something Nintendo even does with the Switch versions of games like Skyrim), Hello Games still self-published it on PSN in August 2016. You didn't have XDEV involvement on that project, either.
Yes they did stuff thes didnt own but not mostly exclusivly. Their current focus sucks ass.
Lucky to understand whatever the fuck you just wrote, they're not doing it exclusively these days, either. Ever heard of Death Stranding 2?
 
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Mr.ODST

Member
SOE was awesome. Planetside (first one, not the second) is one of my favorite games of all time. Everquest was an enormous hit before WoW was even a thing. Shame how things went.
After they ruined one of the greatest games ever made .. Star Wars Galaxies, never forgave for what happened to it, Sony is absolutely brain dead sometimes
 

Fabieter

Member
They didn't publish the PS4 version. They published the limited physical release of the discs. They didn't own the rights to the PS4 version.

I own it digital and SCE showed up everytime I started the game. But yea maybe iam wrong.
 

Nydius

Member
The Last of Us Part II (2020)
Patapon 2 Remastered (2020)
Astro's Playroom (2020)
Demon's Souls (2020)
Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales (2020)
Sackboy: A Big Adventure (2020)
Dreams (2020)
Nioh 2 (2020)
Final Fantasy VII Remake (2020)
Ghost of Tsushima (2020)
Godfall (2020)
Bugsnax (2020)
MLB The Show (2020)
Horizon Zero Dawn Complete Edition PC (2020)


Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart (2021)
Death Stranding Director's Cut (2021)
Days Gone PC (2021)
MLB The Show (2021)

Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves Collection PC/PS5 (2022)
Horizon Forbidden West (2022)
Marvel’s Spider-Man: Miles Morales PC (2022)
Marvel’s Spider-Man Remastered PC (2022)
Sackboy: A Big Adventure PC (2022)
God of War PC (2022)


Gran Turismo 7 (2022)
The Last of Us Part I REMASTER (2022)
God of War Ragnarök (2022)
MLB The Show (2022)

PlayStation VR2 + games and shit (2023)
Forspoken (2023)
The Last of Us Part I PC (2023)
MLB The Show (2023)
Final Fantasy XVI (2023)
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart PC (2023)
Returnal PC (2023)
Marvel's Spider-Man 2 (2023)


The Last of Us Part II Remastered (2024)
Helldivers II (2024)
MLB The Show 24 (2024)
Final Fantasy VII Rebirth (2024)
Rise of the Rōnin (2024)
Stellar Blade (2024)
Until Dawn Remaster PC/PS5 (2024)
Ghost of Tsushima DIRECTOR'S CUT PC (2024)
Horizon Forbidden West Complete Edition PC (2024)
God of War Ragnarök PC (2024)
Astro Bot (2024)
Concord (2024)

Take out all the remasters and PC ports (nice try attempting to count the same games two or three times), and the Square-Enix games they don’t control, and that list isn’t nearly as impressive. A lot of games that play very similarly, namely sprawling open worlds with lots of filler, with an handful of exceptions. Plus an annualized sports game that has been stagnant for several years and is developing the same reputation among its fans as EA Sports games. What have they done with PSVR2 since launching it? Not much. They spent more effort on their streaming portable.

The only thing this list shows me is that Sony plays it safe and has become risk averse. They aren’t really interested in trying new things unless those IPs fall into a genre they’re already doing well in (like Rise of the Ronin, which is just another large, sprawling; open world in the style of Tsushima or Horizon).

While the list looks nice at first glance, it’s a far cry from the Sony of the PS2 and PS3 eras.
 
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Woopah

Member
Actually owning the IP is pretty big difference tho.
Well.....that isn't what Dan means and that isn't what many of us see 3rd party as btw

Sony owns those IP, they contracted Level 5.
How important is it that Sony don't own Spiderman, Wolverine, MLB or Death Stranding?

How about Microsoft not owning Blade or Indiana Jones, or Nintendo not owning Bayonetta or Marvel Ultimate Alliance? Even things like Pokémon and other franchises are IP that Nintendo doesn't fully own. When Astral Chain launched for example, the IP was split between Nintendo and Platinum.

A first party game is one that Sony publishes. IP ownership is not required.
 

Bernardougf

Member
I hope the genz gaas lover players buy a lot of consoles in the future.. because my sons both love gaas but coudnt give two fucks about my playstation 5. Its all about mobile.
Neglecting their older fans and core audience might end up being a huge mistake... but time will tell.
 

Vitter.

Member
Skipped regular, going pro so they are just waiting for me to make those big releases (?)

ps: Cancelling TLOU ONLINE in favour of presenting BUNGIE'S seal of approval with stuff like Concord is going to be ¨great¨ for sure...
 

Generic

Member
Scary thing is with the trajectory of the gaming industry, I could see Sony eventually getting a monopoly on the console market which will most likely lead to them becoming even more out of touch and nonchalant. Who knows what will happen if they lose direct, stiff competition that keeps them on their toes? What would really drive them to try harder?
Sony is already being nonchalant. They increased the price of the PS+ service promising the improvement of the service, but the quality got worse and they stopped offering discounts to current subscribers (something they used to do since the PS3 era). So basically, the service is now costing almost 2x of what it used to be and the games are worse.

They know nobody will push them back anymore and it will only get worse.
 

EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
The point is that to do so now would require building a studio from the ground up
lol what? yea...nahhhh bud. To do so right now would simply require contracting a studio like they've done in the past, I see nothing currently today as of 2024 that would stop them from contracting a team to make a game they own.

They still do that today mind you, as in Helldivers 2 is an IP owned by Sony, made from a team they don't own.

So....I don't know what you are talking about and I'm not sure why you stated it "would require" anything you just stated, those are all options, they are not requirements for those games to exist, as I'm sure if Sony even wanted to make another run at some JRPG thing, they'd likely contract a studio to create an IP they own the rights to, see where that goes and buy them in the future if its really successful or something. Keep in mind, that isn't even a JRPG thing, Sony does that all the time even with non-JRPG stuff so....

yea..
I know it's a first party game, so is Rise of the Ronin. My point was that those games he listed are no different to the ones Sony makes with third partie
Nah, the difference is Sony owns those IPs.

Some of the deals Sony makes for 3rd party games are based on NOT OWNING the IP, as in, Sony does not own Rise Of Ronin, that is owned by Koei Tecmo.

Sorta like Activision publishing Sekrio, it is an IP not owned by Activision, its actually owned by Fromsoft.

So.....yea, all those deals are not the same and that isn't remotely what Dan was suggesting or saying.

All he is saying is that at one point Sony funded and owned many JRPGs.....thats it.

Nothing btw you guys are saying even goes against Danjin44 Danjin44 point.

Sony used to fund JRPGs that they owned the IP to that they sourced by other teams. Owning the team or not doesn't change that Sony use to do this and I'm not really sure why the team being independent would ever change Dan's point lol
I was saying there are if you count those developed by third parties as first party games such as Rise of the Ronin like he has done for Dark cloud and so on.

ohhhh my sweet summer child....

Not all outsourced games are created equal sir. What you did there is an assumption. That is false. Let me explain.

Developed by someone else has no relevance to the term "first party". To any company, it just means "its ours" thats it, please stop with this idea of a independent team or 3rd party team or some shit suddenly changing the term of what a game is to the company that hired them, its irrelevant and to the company, none of that shit matters.

As someone in real estate, I work with builders that do their own construction or even have their families on builds, I work with builders that actually just outsource the work to another company....regardless of how the dust settles, they still own the fucking land and those buildings, they don't suddenly change the term of WHAT the building is, its just too irrelevant and strange.

That is how I see this with this whole "first party" thing, the term is only relevant to Sony (or publisher in question)

ie Sony is make a game about Fuzzy Bears, the IP is owned by Sony.

Sony might do the following.

A. Outsource it to a independent team to keep the cost down and buy that team later on if the game does will.
B. Keep it in house and assign it to an existing team.
C. Make it a combination of A and B, as in have their in house team as lead and have a independent studio assist.

Nothing above that I listed changes if its a first party game, its owned by Sony. Regardless of HOW it comes into existence, it is owned by Sony and the term is simply based on that.

When that term changes is largely based on the ownership of the IP. A great example is the below statement by sir WooMan Spiderman is a character owned by Marvel, but the features, technology etc are owned by Sony. So first party? maybe, Sony owns the features, engine and other elements, but Marvel owns the IP of Spiderman, so the deal likely came to be by Sony supply the tech and team and Marvel licensing the IP to them. Marvel is allowed likely after some time to release some other Spiderman game, they are however not allowed to release Spiderman 2018 or something on any device or platform or something odd like that as they don't own all the tech, thus it would be wildly expensive for them to even work around all that, but shit, it would be wildly expensive for Sony to buy Spiderman or buy Marvel lol So it means both are in a situation that make sense for both and maybe second party fits that better, same with MLB.

3rd party clearly would be they don't own the IP nor publishing and its merely a deal to have the title on a platform for a period of time or something.

Sony does not own Rise Of Ronin.

Sony does own Dark Cloud IP

Thus, that isn't really something that is the same all the time by default and it would be foolish to assume so.

How important is it that Sony don't own Spiderman, Wolverine, MLB or Death Stranding?
Thats nice Wooman, but that isn't the point of what is being stated so.......yea lol
No, they didn't. Nice attempt at lying, though.
It was self-published by Hello Games from the very beginning, even on PS4.
??? Don't be this way Nial lol He isn't lying, what he is saying is that Sony helped with marketing that game.


"The young developer raised eyebrows at Spike VGX 2013 with an announcement and trailer that stole a lot of attention away from the other premieres of the events, and caught the interest of Sony who locked No Man's Sky down as a timed PlayStation 4 exclusive."

I'm surprised you never knew this....

So, he is correct, Sony is simply doing the same thing they did with No Man Sky. They have no control over that Ronin game as the IP is owned by Koei
No company is stupid enough to fund, produce AND publish a game just so anyone else can do whatever they want with it.
That isn't true at all either. Sony has done this many times and other publishers have done this, MS did this with Mass Effect before EA bought the IP and team.

As in, MS funded, published, marketed Mass Effect despite not owning the team, the IP etc.

Keep in mind, this is done because by the time the game even goes to other platforms, it will be tied to that platform and its fanbase anyway, I'm sure many on here will buy the next Mass Effect on XB despite it being on PS and PC, Sony does this because it might be the only way they can get a deal, they are market leader so majority of sales will go to them and by the time something like Ronin or Stellar Blade goes else where, the majority will mentally have that game locked as a PS title regardless.

So, rare, but please with the "no company" that is false and many, many examples show Sony and many more have done this in the past.
They didn't publish the PS4 version. They published the limited physical release of the discs. They didn't own the rights to the PS4 version.
The lolz, I think you guys need to calm down and focus on what is being said....

He is not stating Sony owns the rights to that game, he is saying just the opposite.

They basically did the same for no man sky without having any control over it.
...so... T Three his point is that they have supported games like this, without having any control or rights over it.

He is not saying they own the rights to anything to No Man Sky, he is saying they have funded, marketed, helped etc on games they don't have any control over.

No Man Sky, Ronin, Stellar Blade etc.

So...look, as it stands, Fabieter Fabieter makes a solid point about Sony assisting in projects like this despite not owning the IP or controlling the title or something and Danjin44 Danjin44 makes solid valid points about Sony generations prior funding JRPGs that the own the IP to.

The rest of what many of you are saying imho is just irrelevant. The points being made are sound. Sony has assisted in titles before that they don't own the IP to, they have funded JRPGs before.
 
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ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
lol what? yea...nahhhh bud. To do so right now would simply require contracting a studio like they've done in the past, I see nothing currently today as of 2024 that would stop them from contracting a team to make a game they own.
What studio, exactly?

They still do that today mind you, as in Helldivers 2 is an IP owned by Sony, made from a team they don't own.

So....I don't know what you are talking about and I'm not sure why you stated it "would require" anything you just stated, those are all options, they are not requirements for those games to exist, as I'm sure if Sony even wanted to make another run at some JRPG thing, they'd likely contract a studio to create an IP they own the rights to, see where that goes and buy them in the future if its really successful or something. Keep in mind, that isn't even a JRPG thing, Sony does that all the time even with non-JRPG stuff so....
You're saying all of this as though there enough credible studios within Japan in comparison to North America and Europe to be contracting in the first place. You're also saying it as though the business realities of today would frequently allow them to expect such a studio to relinquish onwership of the IP. Which is apparently a requirement for you and the others to accept it as worthy tribute to the JRPG gods.

They got to Kojima (Kojima) as soon as he left Konami, AND gave him their engine. The conditions that gave them the incentive and/or leverage to own the IP in 2024 are not in place.
 
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Three

Member
Nah, the difference is Sony owns those IPs.

Some of the deals Sony makes for 3rd party games are based on NOT OWNING the IP, as in, Sony does not own Rise Of Ronin, that is owned by Koei Tecmo.

Sorta like Activision publishing Sekrio, it is an IP not owned by Activision, its actually owned by Fromsoft.

So.....yea, all those deals are not the same and that isn't remotely what Dan was suggesting or saying.

All he is saying is that at one point Sony funded and owned many JRPGs.....thats it.

Nothing btw you guys are saying even goes against Danjin44 Danjin44 point.

Sony used to fund JRPGs that they owned the IP to that they sourced by other teams. Owning the team or not doesn't change that Sony use to do this and I'm not really sure why the team being independent would ever change Dan's point lol
If I know Danjin well enough from posts here I know that he doesn't care about the IP/business/politics side and just wants more Japanese first party games to play. I have a lot of respect for that. With JRPGs those owned IPs became irrelevant and FF, Persona, etc overshadowed them. Sony then did the right thing of funding/supporting those devs instead and got playstation games out of them. The point being made though wasn't confined to JRPGs, otherwise there would have been no mention of Astrobot by Danjin.

I was merely pointing out that he shouldn't ignore the Japanese first party games developed by third parties since that's what those he listed from the past were too, first party Japanese games developed by a third party studio. Danjin isn't the type of person who sees a first party Japanese game and wonders who owns the trademark. That's what Woopahs point is. Is that important somehow? Unless people are more concerned as shareholders or in business strategy why would it be? It's funding first party Japanese games and getting a product for users.
ohhhh my sweet summer child....

Not all outsourced games are created equal sir. What you did there is an assumption. That is false. Let me explain.

Developed by someone else has no relevance to the term "first party". To any company, it just means "its ours" thats it, please stop with this idea of a independent team or 3rd party team or some shit suddenly changing the term of what a game is to the company that hired them, its irrelevant and to the company, none of that shit matters.
Exactly, so why does trademark ownership matter? Rise of the ronin is a Japanese first party game. As woopah and it seems yourself are now saying, none of that other shit matters.
The lolz, I think you guys need to calm down and focus on what is being said....

He is not stating Sony owns the rights to that game, he is saying just the opposite.
I think perhaps you need to calm down with the lolz? I didn't say he said that. I said Sony didn't have the publishing copyright to the game, not creative control or whatever you're implying by rights. No mans sky was never a first party game (ie one published by Sony).
 
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Fabieter

Member
If I know Danjin well enough from posts here I know that he doesn't care about the IP/business/politics side and just wants more Japanese first party games to play. I have a lot of respect for that. With JRPGs those owned IPs became irrelevant and FF, Persona, etc overshadowed them. Sony then did the right thing of funding/supporting those devs instead and got playstation games out of them. The point being made though wasn't confined to JRPGs, otherwise there would have been no mention of Astrobot by Danjin.

I was merely pointing out that he shouldn't ignore the Japanese first party games developed by third parties since that's what those he listed from the past were too, first party Japanese games developed by a third party studio. Danjin isn't the type of person who sees a first party Japanese game and wonders who owns the trademark. That's what Woopahs point is. Is that important somehow? Unless people are more concerned as shareholders or in business strategy why would it be? It's funding first party Japanese games and getting a product for users.

Exactly, so why does trademark ownership matter? Rise of the ronin is a Japanese first party game. As woopah and it seems yourself are now saying, none of that other shit matters.

I think perhaps you need to calm down with the lolz? I didn't say he said that. I said Sony didn't have the publishing copyright to the game, not creative control or whatever you're implying by rights. No mans sky was never a first party game (ie one published by Sony).

Danjin44 Danjin44 asked for 1p game which is factually wrong for rise and stellar blade since owning the game is needed to be 1p.

Just retrospectively changing this to fit the western focus of Sony isn't what japanese fans actually want.

What we get instead is shitty c tier gaas games which we asked to like because hulst said we should.
 

Three

Member
Danjin44 Danjin44 asked for 1p game which is factually wrong for rise and stellar blade since owning the game is needed to be 1p.

Just retrospectively changing this to fit the western focus of Sony isn't what japanese fans actually want.

What we get instead is shitty c tier gaas games which we asked to like because hulst said we should.
A game needs to only be published by them to be considered first party. Gears of war was considered first party for years until they bought the IP later too.
 
Reading some of these comments. When are some of you going to wake up and realize that there are thousands upon thousands of games to choose from and they will give you a damn good experience for far less than $70. There is so much more to gaming than AAA lowest common denominator fluff.

This is a videogame enthusiast forum right? This place is resembling Reddit more and more. Sad!
 

Woggleman

Member
Sony won me over during the PS4 Era by fully embracing SP. Now they are undoing that plus the remakes. I am a big fan of TLOU2 but that remaster could have been a PS5 patch and did the same thing.
 
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