-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Pushsquare, “Reaction: PS5 Livestreams Are No Longer Speaking to the Fans Who Built the Brand”
- Thread starter ArtHands
- Start date
AtomicStarving
Member
The Last of Us Part II (2020)
Patapon 2 Remastered (2020)
Astro's Playroom (2020)
Demon's Souls (2020)
Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales (2020)
Sackboy: A Big Adventure (2020)
Dreams (2020)
Nioh 2 (2020)
Final Fantasy VII Remake (2020)
Ghost of Tsushima (2020)
Godfall (2020)
Bugsnax (2020)
MLB The Show (2020)
Horizon Zero Dawn Complete Edition PC (2020)
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart (2021)
Death Stranding Director's Cut (2021)
Days Gone PC (2021)
MLB The Show (2021)
Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves Collection PC/PS5 (2022)
Horizon Forbidden West (2022)
Marvel’s Spider-Man: Miles Morales PC (2022)
Marvel’s Spider-Man Remastered PC (2022)
Sackboy: A Big Adventure PC (2022)
God of War PC (2022)
Gran Turismo 7 (2022)
The Last of Us Part I REMASTER (2022)
God of War Ragnarök (2022)
MLB The Show (2022)
PlayStation VR2 + games and shit (2023)
Forspoken (2023)
The Last of Us Part I PC (2023)
MLB The Show (2023)
Final Fantasy XVI (2023)
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart PC (2023)
Returnal PC (2023)
Marvel's Spider-Man 2 (2023)
The Last of Us Part II Remastered (2024)
Helldivers II (2024)
MLB The Show 24 (2024)
Final Fantasy VII Rebirth (2024)
Rise of the Rōnin (2024)
Stellar Blade (2024)
Until Dawn Remaster PC/PS5 (2024)
Ghost of Tsushima DIRECTOR'S CUT PC (2024)
Horizon Forbidden West Complete Edition PC (2024)
God of War Ragnarök PC (2024)
Astro Bot (2024)
Concord (2024)
Patapon 2 Remastered (2020)
Astro's Playroom (2020)
Demon's Souls (2020)
Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales (2020)
Sackboy: A Big Adventure (2020)
Dreams (2020)
Nioh 2 (2020)
Final Fantasy VII Remake (2020)
Ghost of Tsushima (2020)
Godfall (2020)
Bugsnax (2020)
MLB The Show (2020)
Horizon Zero Dawn Complete Edition PC (2020)
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart (2021)
Death Stranding Director's Cut (2021)
Days Gone PC (2021)
MLB The Show (2021)
Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves Collection PC/PS5 (2022)
Horizon Forbidden West (2022)
Marvel’s Spider-Man: Miles Morales PC (2022)
Marvel’s Spider-Man Remastered PC (2022)
Sackboy: A Big Adventure PC (2022)
God of War PC (2022)
Gran Turismo 7 (2022)
The Last of Us Part I REMASTER (2022)
God of War Ragnarök (2022)
MLB The Show (2022)
PlayStation VR2 + games and shit (2023)
Forspoken (2023)
The Last of Us Part I PC (2023)
MLB The Show (2023)
Final Fantasy XVI (2023)
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart PC (2023)
Returnal PC (2023)
Marvel's Spider-Man 2 (2023)
The Last of Us Part II Remastered (2024)
Helldivers II (2024)
MLB The Show 24 (2024)
Final Fantasy VII Rebirth (2024)
Rise of the Rōnin (2024)
Stellar Blade (2024)
Until Dawn Remaster PC/PS5 (2024)
Ghost of Tsushima DIRECTOR'S CUT PC (2024)
Horizon Forbidden West Complete Edition PC (2024)
God of War Ragnarök PC (2024)
Astro Bot (2024)
Concord (2024)
Last edited:
ShadyAcshuns
Member
This. China and Korea are too busy trying to be like Western devs: focusing on teh graphics.
Woopah
Member
Nintendo and Sony seem to offset each others' rhythm fairly well:
When Nintendo had a bad year in 2020, Sony was pretty good.
They were both great in 2022, and when Sony had a bad year in 2023, Nintendo was pretty strong.
Nintendo has had a bad H1 2024, but Sony has come back and been pretty great in recent months.
Let's see what they both have for H2.
Last edited:
Woopah
Member
You should remove the Final Fantasy games, Godfall and Bugsnax but the rest looks accurate.
Shadowstar39
Member
Thi
I'm 45, but we will need stuff to play in retirement. All that time to game and nothing made for our liking doesn't sound appealing. Luckily my back log goes back decades.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
At least they are getting stuff done!
Where's Ueda's new game? Where's Toyama's new game? Where are Kamiya and Mikami?
Just saying, name Japanese developers like the ones above are independent now but they haven't shown much of anything recently.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
They're probably sweating through some dei training course programs being forced upon them before they can make any more games.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Yeah, I agree. But I have to say, even though R&C and Spiderman aren't my cup of tea, Insomniac has established itself as one of the major studios.
lughnasadh123
Member
But we're seeing a huge diversity in the types of games so far this year rather than a deluge of one type. GaaS isn't replacing their single player list but in addition to it. It would be stupid not to try to tap into active market that there's a clear desire for because some people don't like them. And it's ok if people don't. I just disagree with this notion that Sony shouldn't even try because of their own personal tastes when someone else will.
It's also why those games are filling the gaps of other studios. I'll never understand the whole "first party or fuck off" attitude for certain studios when there's still exclusives. You're not going to be playing them on Xbox or Switch anytime soon if ever. If people want it on PC then this is moot as they'll be there anyways. The answer to why PS5 is a pretty simple question to answer for all but those who largely already want to move on anyways.
Killjoy-NL
Member
People were playing multiplayer all the time.
Killzone 2 and 3, RFOM, Motorstorm, Socom, MAG, Warhawk, COD, Rainbow Six, Battlefield, etc.
It wasn't any different from now, except there was much less DLC/MTX and people didn't call mp Gaas yet.
Last edited:
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Most those game are 3rd party, I’m talking about Sony own first party games. (Silent Hill 2 remake done by western devs because fucking Konami doesn’t learn from their past mistakes.)
Other than Astro Bot there is not much first party Japanese games like used to in PS2, PS3 and even PS4.
PS5 first party mostly dominated by western games.
semiconscious
Member
me: 'c'mon, sony! i mean, for god's sake, it was people like me that helped build the brand!...'
sony: 'i'm sorry. what?...'
sony: 'i'm sorry. what?...'
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Pretty sure multiplayer has gotten more popular since the PS3 days.
CoreyFlawless
Member
? How can you not call them hardcore? They more likely play game more then you and have more hours than you in gaming. They busy gaming and you busy complaining
James Sawyer Ford
Member
They are "hardcore" in the sense that they play a lot of hours. They don't tend to play a huge variety of games. Many of these mega GaaS consumers only play a very small select number of titles.
They don't follow news stories, showcases, etc. They just play what their friends are playing based on word of mouth
FeralEcho
Member
This coming from the guy that keeps trying to sell us on the fact that gaas is some hidden treasure we all keep missing on when we all know it's a piece of shit model.
I do think Sony failed the fanbase that got them to where they are but I also think they are failing even harder at chasing the market they so desperately want as well.The gaas market everyone is chasing.They seem like they have no clue wtf they are doing and just throw shit at a wall. Concord is proof of that. Its a game NO ONE wants yet it bears the PS Studios branding,a branding that meant quality in the past that now means jack shit.
People keep mentioning Helldivers 2 as a gaas success for Sony yet everyone fails to see how Helldivers 2 never started as a GAAS. That's why Concord will fail and it's why Factions failed and why Sony's gaas initiative will fail completely.
Helldivers 2 succeded because it's unlike other gaas games. It isn't a Fortnite wanabee,a Overwatch wanabee or COD wanabee, It'll be other games who will be Helldivers wanabees and they will fail as well because no one wants to spend their most precious resource...TIME... to play a copy of other things they could already be playing...
Sony is stuck in a limbo where to keep getting higher profits they need to abandon their core audience and chase gaas but by chasing gaas you fail at creating gaas games therefore no audience.
All I can say to Sony is good luck pal,you'll need it! You got in this shit yourself!
Their only real saving grace is the fact that Microsoft completely gave up so it gives Sony some breathing room to figure out what they really want and can do.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Yet, even though we're mid-gen, this is Sony's most successfull generation.This coming from the guy that keeps trying to sell us on the fact that gaas is some hidden treasure we all keep missing on when we all know it's a piece of shit model.
I do think Sony failed the fanbase that got them to where they are but I also think they are failing even harder at chasing the market they so desperately want as well.The gaas market everyone is chasing.They seem like they have no clue wtf they are doing and just throw shit at a wall. Concord is proof of that. Its a game NO ONE wants yet it bears the PS Studios branding,a branding that meant quality in the past that now means jack shit.
People keep mentioning Helldivers 2 as a gaas success for Sony yet everyone fails to see how Helldivers 2 never started as a GAAS. That's why Concord will fail and it's why Factions failed and why Sony's gaas initiative will fail completely.
Helldivers 2 succeded because it's unlike other gaas games. It isn't a Fortnite wanabee,a Overwatch wanabee or COD wanabee, It'll be other games who will be Helldivers wanabees and they will fail as well because no one wants to spend their most precious resource...TIME... to play a copy of other things they could already be playing...
Sony is stuck in a limbo where to keep getting higher profits they need to abandon their core audience and chase gaas but by chasing gaas you fail at creating gaas games therefore no audience.
All I can say to Sony is good luck pal,you'll need it! You got in this shit yourself!
Their only real saving grace is the fact that Microsoft completely gave up so it gives Sony some breathing room to figure out what they really want and can do.
I think it's safe to say Sony knows exactly what they're doing.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
Pretty much. There seems to be a small minority present on the internet who says the State of Play was good. Must be from a different generation.
That’s okay too. I understand companies have to move on to newer generations and that games take longer to make. For what I was wanting though (besides Astrobot); it was bland and disappointing.
That’s okay too. I understand companies have to move on to newer generations and that games take longer to make. For what I was wanting though (besides Astrobot); it was bland and disappointing.
FeralEcho
Member
Not quite accurate,they are riding still off the back of PS4 generation success and how everyone built their libraries since most people bought their PS5s with the prospect that Sony will continue on that path,since afterall it was common sense but since Sony changed their policies mid gen then things will change.
Why should I invest in a console if their exclusives come to PC in two years? Why should I invest in a console if nothing they make anymore interests me?
These are the questions customers will ask themselves when PS6 comes around.
I personally am in doubt and probably won't be buying the PS6,despite having over 1000 games in the Playstation ecosystems because of Sony's changed mentality,this isnt the Sony I grew up with or that was catering to me as a player and since I can find their shit on PC nowadays I'm more than likely to make the switch to PC instead.
How much ROI does Sony lose by losing someone like me as a user?Someone who buys 30+ games a year? Probably not much but add another,and 100 more and 100 more etc. and eventually they start to see a difference since PSN is where they make their profits. It's gonna be hard to make money off PSN if no one buys new games.
Gaas players tend to only play one or two games per year and while what they buy as microtransactions might make up for the loss on bought games think of it from a developer standpoint... Would you as a developer release games on a console if no one buys your game? If everyone is too busy playing the 10-20 gaas games everyone else is making...
So it's a naive point of view to think that just because they are doing okay now that they know what they are doing.
Factions wasted 5 years of Naughty Dog time for nothing and relegated them to releasing remasters all generation so far and Concord is the most disliked PS Studios game in the last decade and it's at the forefront of their new initiative. If I was CEO and saw the negative reaction to that I'd be shitting bricks right now.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
I agree
Killjoy-NL
Member
Then sell your PS5 and move on to PC.
Playstation will be fine, this is most likely a clash between generations, but the younger generation will be the main audience going forward.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Good vid on the current situation.
Generic
Member
Ah yes, the good old "legit criticism" excuse when most people in the internet are just mocking a character in Silent Hill 2 because her face is slighty chubby.
IAmRei
Member
it is not balanced for people who like smaller japanese games...
only almost in their end.
CoreyFlawless
Member
Idk, lot of them still play and beat a single player game real quick too. Of course, they not gonna play all the single player games, just only the 2-3 high rated ones that come out that year. So the ppl that follow stories and showcase are the real hardcore? Crazy talk and also, us ppl that follow the stories and showcase are just a small number of gamers…. I guess, I use to have this same kinda mindset in the 2000’s. I use to believe the ppl that only play shooters and sports games wasn’t hardcore. But man, I was wrong bout that. I will say lot of them don’t seem to like rpg or don’t care for them.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Anyone could have gotten that take simply by looking at the thumbnail. Try actually watching it. He makes some very valid points.
Majima Everywhere System
Member
That Concord trailer demonstrates that game makers should not be in charge of concept anymore. Hollywood still manages to produce something appealing to me aesthetically roughly once a quarter, but it’s closer to once a year in gaming.
And then there are the dad stories which can also fuck right off. Maybe you have a visionary like Hideo who might be able to pull it together, but remember he is from another era where the game maker rose by being visionary or having the pulse of the audience.
Game companies need to start taking in more scripts and treatments, and then just bring it to life and make it a game. I barf when I see time and talent wasted on these highly derivative and mediocre worlds.
And then there are the dad stories which can also fuck right off. Maybe you have a visionary like Hideo who might be able to pull it together, but remember he is from another era where the game maker rose by being visionary or having the pulse of the audience.
Game companies need to start taking in more scripts and treatments, and then just bring it to life and make it a game. I barf when I see time and talent wasted on these highly derivative and mediocre worlds.
Fabieter
Member
Push Square is such trash
Brands move on, PlayStation Future isn't tied to Boomers or Millennials and the new generation doesn't give a flying fuck about gaming forums or websites like Push Square.
It's all about Tik Tok & GaaS.
Tiktok is getting banned in a year so that might save gaming.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
That’s certainly thought provoking. They have the loyal Playstation fans by the balls, and know this group of people will not go away even if Sony stop making the games they love. So Sony feels safe enough to make the games they think other people love.
unlurkified
Member
I think they just don’t care how fans perceive them at this point with MS basically being a non-competitor. Why not just chase the most bucks.
Hypereides
Member
Sony/PS' development philosophy used to be wildly different and some people here like to pretend that never was the case.
IAmRei
Member
Speaking of gen z...
I recall when i give class to teach them about game development few weeks ago. Then we discuss up to the point of GAAS.
When i ask them, why do you play GAAS?
they said they only wants to "flexing" to their friends. They seems doesnt care about games, only chasing trends happened on the games.
I asked them for single player, almost all of them keep silent...
I feel sad and angry at the same time.
I recall when i give class to teach them about game development few weeks ago. Then we discuss up to the point of GAAS.
When i ask them, why do you play GAAS?
they said they only wants to "flexing" to their friends. They seems doesnt care about games, only chasing trends happened on the games.
I asked them for single player, almost all of them keep silent...
I feel sad and angry at the same time.
IAmRei
Member
Cant be more agree than this.
AGRacing
Member
I’m that September 1995 fan. I abandoned Sega for them.. and as a 15 year old that wasn’t easy. The premise is absolutely right. I hate this PlayStation.
When I think of how edgy Wipeout was when it was rolled out… and think about fucking Concord in comparison. It’s not even close.
I understand why younger people might not understand … and that’s fine for them.
It’s unfortunate though, because I don’t think that old edge needed to die to replace it with this “gaas by the numbers” new world.
When I think of how edgy Wipeout was when it was rolled out… and think about fucking Concord in comparison. It’s not even close.
I understand why younger people might not understand … and that’s fine for them.
It’s unfortunate though, because I don’t think that old edge needed to die to replace it with this “gaas by the numbers” new world.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Its just fucking dumb. So now "for modern audiences" is a wokist dog-whistle? Hmm, that line of thinking seems strangely familar....
This is classic horse-shoe theory, the anti-woke are now acting exactly the same as the wokists have been doing for the last few years and projecting their brand of pearl-clutching bullshit in a desperate attempt to control the medium.
And looking just as stupid and reactionary in the process.
SidViscous
Member
Moving all the decision makers to California was a big mistake.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Strange. When I bought my PS3 I played a lot Motorstrom and Resistance mp.
Hypereides
Member
Perhaps upper Sony management recognized that issue and that's why they went with the dual CEO leadership. At least I hope that's some of the reasoning behind it.
Everything is a war with the gaming community it seems. What's bizarre about people bringing up PS3 is that when we were in the PS3 era multiplayer was free and TLOU, Uncharted, Killzone, Resistance, Motorstorm, etc had multiplayer modes. During the PS4 when online was no longer free their first party slowly shifted to single player only. Insomniac moved from doing multiplayer games like Resistance to single player only games Ratchet and Spiderman. Guerrilla Games no longer made a multiplayer shooter like Killzone but concentrated on an open world single player game. ND started to cut out MP completely and released single player only games like Lost Legacy and TLOU part 2. Now when we're still getting single player games people are kicking up a fuss over some multiplayer games.
Last edited:
Killjoy-NL
Member
Well yeah, that's basically what Sony has been saying for the past 5 years.
They still make games fans want though, some just take time.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
That's always been the case though. From the moment PlayStation's first party vertical was created, it's been majority western. All of that multiplatform shit cones from the same companies that made PS exclusives back in the day.
Persona was never a "1st party title". Would it be all better in your estimation if Sony bought exclusivity?
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Given that most third parties (exclusives) are Asian I understand that too. The current double-CEO structure could be viewed also as West - East. I don't want Hermen messing up deals with Shift Up, Mihoyo or whoever comes next. Even so, unfortunately, Hermen is the bigger fish as PS Studio director and from him we can only expect the kind of decision of any soulless trend-chasing corpo guy, zero passion for the industry. On the opposite aisle is a man like Shuhei Yoshida.
Killjoy-NL
Member
I'm willing to bet Hulst is as passionate about gaming and the industry as we are.
It's just that times are changing and if you can't manage to adapt, it might be time to look for a new hobby.
Us oldies are easily being replaced by younger generations. It's the process of life.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Not like Valve or Gamepass apostles. Jesus, man...
This is not the matter. It's not about companies "caring" for fans but companies acknowledging who their core audience is. And to whom they owe their success.
The problem with Sony, as with every other Western corporation nowadays, is that they are pandering to people who aren't their fans, or even worse, they straight-up insult their fans.
By the way, companies care about their communities. In fact, those are the successful ones. They do it because they are passionate and also because that brings them money. Devs like Arrowhead, Larian or Shift-Up, to mention three independent ones.