Yeah, there's a thick cloud of irony in how far the staff of Reddit have been to champion it as a beacon of free speech and then chide the community for its lack of 'compassion'. No one deserves such racist and misogynistic garbage flung at them, but Reddit has made it clear they're okay with such speech existing on their site, so to lambast people for doing it now is silly.
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Reddit CEO Pao steps down
- Thread starter Guevara
- Start date
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Yeah, there's a thick cloud of irony in how far the staff of Reddit have been to champion it as a beacon of free speech and then chide the community for its lack of 'compassion'. No one deserves such racist and misogynistic garbage flung at them, but Reddit has made it clear they're okay with such speech existing on their site, so to lambast people for doing it now is silly.
Are you implying they flooded NBC, Bloomberg and Business Insider?
Thousands of posts like this and I don't get it. She's not the sole reason of reddit's problems, despite what most of reddit's shitty community thinks.
It's going to be hilarious when the co-creator/new CEO does some of the shit she was opposed to on the board's recommendations (and why she resigned) after this warm welcome of him by reddit.
Lol really man? Fucking everything is "sexist" to you feminist types.
Aquavelvaman
Banned
Flooding reddit with negative articles that only show wrongdoings, all spun as sleights against the userbase.
As far as I understand, the core original group of people who wanted this are extreme bigots. Not something to be proud of.
And all those articles by reputable news organisations? All a great plan by coontown?
Phat Michael
Banned
I think you misunderstand and are getting emotional. I'm saying future employers will be wary she stepped down as a ceo and tried to sue her former company for discrimination / not promoting her and lost.
This send off big red flags to anyone looking to hire a ceo role.
elrechazado
Banned
So, not answering the question then? Also, were they on her jury?
RockTurtle
Member
all those places get their news exclusively from reddit frontpages?
well we don't know yet. let's see what he unveils.
Phat Michael
Banned
People protested and turned the major subreddits private. She wasn't in there long enough to make a huge financial impact, but she Pissed off a lot of the community and people went to voat/8chan.
wow.....
Can't say I'm surprised. I tried Reddit for a while but the community isn't great.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Really? Future employers are going to hold her resigning from a previous position against her?
Aquavelvaman
Banned
Sorry, what was the question?
No. I'm talking about the flood of those articles on reddit and they way they were hyped up to a ferver. I'm not disputing the articles.
The flow of information is
news ---> reddit, not the other way around. What are you talking about?
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The thing that is being misunderstood is not that I think Pao is flawless or something. I don't particularly support her. Even if you disagree 100% with everything she's done, it's really not that much and doesn't really deserve this amount of vitriol. She didn't do very much to affect reddit and people are way overblowing the situation. The main reason that people care about it at all is because of the ferver that was created, largely fueled by unsavory people on reddit. A ferver that started way before 'safe spaces' and fph banning and victoria, which are the big issues that most people care about anyway.
elrechazado
Banned
If you think she voluntarily stepped down I have bridge to sell you. Happens to CEOs all the time. She was given a choice - leave on your terms or ours.
Phat Michael
Banned
Yes they will. When looking at a cv and you see someone stepped down from a ceo role after 6 months (?) in quite a publicly documented story then it will send warning signs to them.
6 months between jobs on a cv is not a long time and will raise eyebrows.
This combined with her very public failed court case where she lost after suing her former employers will not be good for her cv in the long run,particularly over what she sued them for.
You selectively editing my quote to remove the part about the failed law suit doesn't make it any less important.
Circle Jerk
Member
What? Yes, of course. If you were ineffective and resign, people will hold that against you. Pao didn't deserve anywhere near the amount of hate she got, but she wasn't a very good CEO. Most decisions she made were implemented in a poor way. I don't think it's fair to put it all on her, the board clearly deserves some blame. But she wasn't an effective communicator, and her business acumen wasn't enough to make up for that failure.
cubicle47b
Member
I'm surprised she got hired after the lawsuit.
The thing that drew mass attention wasn't the FPH trolls, it was the decidedly non-racist mods of a number of huge subs all darkening them in protest of the Victoria firing.
This narrative that it "all flared up because of right wingers" is a crock. Yes, they're the obnoxious ones that you can use as a boogeyman, but the fatal wound had absolutely nothing to do with them.
elrechazado
Banned
You're being pretty incoherent here. Seems you're not even reading the posts you're quoting at this point. You're really not getting the relevance of the mainstream news stories?
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
She's a venture capitalist, so she's one of the worst types of people.
But there's some cognitive dissonance going on that just drives Libertarians up the wall. Ellen Pao and Reddit's maneuverings over the past few months have been the operating of a private entity and using their private property in the pursuit of higher returns and a more comfortable position in the market. It is 100% capitalism, 100% the invisible hand of the market. But Righties can't recognize a market as flawed and dangerous to themselves so they have to invent a Left Wing/SJW conspiracy.
Phat Michael
Banned
I think she was on their board or something or helped launch the company? She was involved in reddit from the very beginning from what I understood.
RockTurtle
Member
now i have to intercept and backup what zuzu is saying (at least in the ceo past thing).
I have heard that CEOs in general are a specific breed of business people, and even when they totally shit the bed, they are given massive fallout bonuses and are still poached to head other companies even with their soiled history.
this has been apparent a lot of times. just look at some of the gaming CEOs and heads of business being corraled into opposing companies at high positions even with their screwups.
She's a venture capitalist, so she's one of the worst types of people.
But there's some cognitive dissonance going on that just drives Libertarians up the wall. Ellen Pao and Reddit's maneuverings over the past few months have been the operating of a private entity and using their private property in the pursuit of higher returns and a more comfortable position in the market. It is 100% capitalism, 100% the invisible hand of the market. But Righties can't recognize a market as flawed and dangerous to themselves so they have to invent a Left Wing/SJW conspiracy.
and this is where i think is your major fault.
you keep attributing everything to a conspiracy of well-organized right wing/libertarian/misoginy group en masse against a supposed SJW/left wing non-existent entity. when the atmosphere and majority in reddit that pushed this through is CLEARLY left leaning and more socially progressive than the groups you are attributing all that's happened.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
You're delusional, you have no idea how these positions operate. CEO isn't like being interviewed for McDonalds.
elrechazado
Banned
and has been pointed out and you ignore, the libertarian right wing narrative is garbage. He'll, the doubleX subreddit hated pao for making that place a default subreddit. And AMA or any if the other hundred subs going dark being some right wing conspiracy is a joke. Keep fighting the boogie man though.She's a venture capitalist, so she's one of the worst types of people.
But there's some cognitive dissonance going on that just drives Libertarians up the wall. Ellen Pao and Reddit's maneuverings over the past few months have been the operating of a private entity and using their private property in the pursuit of higher returns and a more comfortable position in the market. It is 100% capitalism, 100% the invisible hand of the market. But Righties can't recognize a market as flawed and dangerous to themselves so they have to invent a Left Wing/SJW conspiracy.
That comic is a completely bizarre non sequitur. Jimcarrey who you talkin to.gif
reptilescorpio
Member
I expect they'd be more worried about the blackmail against Kleiner Perkins than the stupid shit that happened with Reddit. In any case I doubt she would be looking for a CEO role long term.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Yup.
It's called the Golden Parachute.
Every board member that was responsible for tanking the economy in 2008 is still a board member.
Steve Jobs fucked up Apple, tanked NeXT, and almost let Pixar stagnate into irrelevancy before he hit it big coming back into Apple.
Carly Fiorina ran HP into the ground and is so highly respected that shes running for President.
Aquavelvaman
Banned
There was a huge effort to bring public opinion against her before any of the Victoria stuff. I saw it all of TIL and Videos months before any of that. It was all about her lawsuit and her husband. "TIL Ellen Pao's husband is an ex-gay hedge fund manager..." it was posted all over the place way before FPH or Victoria or anything noteworthy that she actually did concerning reddit.
Phat Michael
Banned
What point are you trying to make and who are you talking to?
If anything, I believe the point you are trying to make actually backs up my points that it will be more difficult for her to get a job because of her failures. Ceos are heavily verified and scrutinised before being employed, this is what we are all saying.
Also, do you work in a large scale corporation? I know you hate large businesses so maybe you don't really know exactly how they operate?
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
So the Ellen Pao hatemachine being greased by KiA, FPH, and a bunch of racist right wing subs is just "narrative".
elrechazado
Banned
Yep. Anyone who thinks an exec with a high profile employer lawsuit doesn't raise red flags with future employers is delusional.
Phat Michael
Banned
Both are pretty Damn alarming for sure. And yes the law suit loss and all the other stuff was pretty bad. She really doesn't seem to be a good ceo at all.
Aquavelvaman
Banned
Mainstream news stories show her unfavorably and report on the things that she did? I actually don't understand the relevance of that to any of my posts. My posts are not questioning whether she made unpopular decisions or not. It's clear that she did. The news reported that accurately.
elrechazado
Banned
Nice non answer. Keep up the narrative against the cabal of right wingers in xx sub and tons of others just as, if not more, involved in pao opposition. Post more irrelevant comics tho.
Phat Michael
Banned
I know man. But yes, I think most people can see what I'm saying and it's no big thing. If you work for a big company you see this stuff pretty easily and regularly.
I'm not sure how much I have to clarify this as it is very basic Business 101 type stuff.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
LIBERAL CONSPIRACY!!!
elrechazado
Banned
Agreeing with you. I would expect this to be self evident, but the fact that do many in here think her lawsuit and other controversies mean nothing to future employers is baffling. I've seen the exact same things happen with a former CEO. White male. Extensive background checks take place too. They aren't only looking for criminal charges. It's reputation protection.
elrechazado
Banned
Funny that you'd mock your own series of posts this way since all you've said is " omg libertarians suck and did this" over and over. Unintentional self ownage yay.
So what I'm gathering on the last few pages is everyone agrees she was a mess and made unfavorable decisions. But now political left and political right people are holding up narratives blaming the other camp for spinning a narrative that blames them for being the ones really at fault for spinning the narrative. My head is spinning.
Phat Michael
Banned
Exactly. I'm not sure why people keep mentioning her gender or nationality? The fact is she has a stream of poor decisions, "voluntary resignation" and a failed law suit for not promoting her - I'll be surprised if a big name firm takes her on any time soon.
Damerman
Member
you and me both dude.
Phat Michael
Banned
Yeah he's all over the place. I'm not sure if he is quoting the wrong person or just confused himself but I think he will keep doubling down on his own viewpoints, regardless of what is presented here.
HideyoshiJP
Member
Hoooolyyyy shit. Well, there it is.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
True, but you can hate corporations and war while also still being racist or sexist.
I think if Pao was a white male, people would still be in an uproar on reddit, but it'd be more targeted at the capitalism side instead the "sjw" side of it.
RockTurtle
Member
i don't doubt it for a second. But i felt there were many elements involved and attributing it all to that sort of right wing conspiracy is a bit disingenuous. i feel that because of her gender and being a minority somehow diminishes what people can say about her questionable background. Maybe because they fear that her faults will taint the field for future prospects of minority CEOs.
or the fact that some racists/sexist people made some comments means that those with legitimate complaints or reservations run the risk of being lumped in the same group. because reasons.
and for that, she MUST be protected or people's reservations of her be put under a major magnifying glass.
that's why i, with a bit of tin foil hattery, am now starting to think she was propped up to be a fall guy for the background dealings in reddit for an inevitable shakeup on the fundamentals of the what site was built on.
taking a page from politician handbook, introduce a major or extremely unpopular policy, test the field with the uproar from the public, and introduce a seemingly less strict policy which was the original/intended plan. it won't look as extreme, and will be more easily swallowed.
Suzushiiro
Banned
I think the idea that Pao has zero responsibility for Victoria's firing and thus the rage against her over the past week is completely unjustified is silly. Either she was involved with the decision to fire her and how to go about it and thus deserves at least as much blame as Alexis, or one of her subordinates fired one of the company's most well-known employees with no plan for how to go about handling her duties afterwards without her knowledge, and if something like that happens when you're the CEO of a company with a relatively small employee count without you having a clue you're doing something very wrong.
Alexis probably should be getting way more hate and pitchforks than he is, true. Part of the difference here is that, again, Pao was the CEO, and people tend to blame their issues with an organization on the most powerful/visible person in it. But the bigger one is that Alexis has been around Reddit forever- Redditors see him as One Of Us. Pao, on the other hand, didn't even seem to understand how Reddit worked when she first came on (most notably she tried to link to a private message in a comment) and in general has come off as One Of Them- one of the people who wants to make Reddit worse in order to make money off of it. This would have been true regardless of whether or not Pao had been someone who attracted the hate of the "anti-SJW" crowd or whatever you want to call it- that was a lot of fuel on the fire, sure, but the shitstorm and head-calling of the past week would have happened even if she had no history of, for lack of a better term, "SJW-ey" behavior. The nerds that have long since made up the core of the Reddit userbase are just the sort that naturally fear the things they love being milked dry and destroyed by people in suits. Hence the decision do replace Pao with one of the site's original founders- someone who the users will also see as One Of Us.
I mean, if you think that the FPH/GG/whatever else crowd made the rage against her over the past week stronger, I'd agree. If you think that she was ousted by some grand fucking conspiracy by that crowd to destroy her for daring to be a woman with power and that she did absolutely nothing wrong, you're way off the fucking rails. Recent drama aside, of the 38 admins who have left Reddit since 2005, 23 have been within the last 9 months. Things have clearly been getting worse there, at least on the inside, it just wasn't that clearly visible until last week. And of course, while I'm sure there is some truth to the official reasons for her leaving, the idea that the shitstorm of the past week had nothing to do with it is fucking laughable, considering the timing. This drama was probably just the tipping point for it rather than the sole reason.
Really, though, the people who are probably truly at fault here are the board of directors as a whole. I don't think the trajectory of the site is really going to change until something big changes there.
Alexis probably should be getting way more hate and pitchforks than he is, true. Part of the difference here is that, again, Pao was the CEO, and people tend to blame their issues with an organization on the most powerful/visible person in it. But the bigger one is that Alexis has been around Reddit forever- Redditors see him as One Of Us. Pao, on the other hand, didn't even seem to understand how Reddit worked when she first came on (most notably she tried to link to a private message in a comment) and in general has come off as One Of Them- one of the people who wants to make Reddit worse in order to make money off of it. This would have been true regardless of whether or not Pao had been someone who attracted the hate of the "anti-SJW" crowd or whatever you want to call it- that was a lot of fuel on the fire, sure, but the shitstorm and head-calling of the past week would have happened even if she had no history of, for lack of a better term, "SJW-ey" behavior. The nerds that have long since made up the core of the Reddit userbase are just the sort that naturally fear the things they love being milked dry and destroyed by people in suits. Hence the decision do replace Pao with one of the site's original founders- someone who the users will also see as One Of Us.
I mean, if you think that the FPH/GG/whatever else crowd made the rage against her over the past week stronger, I'd agree. If you think that she was ousted by some grand fucking conspiracy by that crowd to destroy her for daring to be a woman with power and that she did absolutely nothing wrong, you're way off the fucking rails. Recent drama aside, of the 38 admins who have left Reddit since 2005, 23 have been within the last 9 months. Things have clearly been getting worse there, at least on the inside, it just wasn't that clearly visible until last week. And of course, while I'm sure there is some truth to the official reasons for her leaving, the idea that the shitstorm of the past week had nothing to do with it is fucking laughable, considering the timing. This drama was probably just the tipping point for it rather than the sole reason.
Really, though, the people who are probably truly at fault here are the board of directors as a whole. I don't think the trajectory of the site is really going to change until something big changes there.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I can see that.
"These sweeping changes to monetize every last part of reddit sure does suck, but at least we no longer have a feminist as CEO."
Giolon
Member
Really solid post all around, this.
I'm not at all sure what you're talking about, but CEOs are the least "examined" people in any industry.
I guarantee you she will not only land another position relatively quickly, but probably quite high up if not CEO in the next position.
Almost every CEO that I've ever heard of has a golden parachute. And, especially in business, it has nothing to do with what you've done - it's all about "who you know". Don't believe me? Look up the former CEO of American Airlines. Dude literally ran the company into bankruptcy, got close to 8Mil to bail AND was still a board member. He's now a board member at Wal-Mart and Qualcomm. If you look at his original golden parachute, he asked for 20Mil.
20Mil because he ran a company into bankruptcy.
This story is not uncommon for CEOs in the US. Pao will come out of this smelling like lots of things, but shit isn't one of them. Seriously - google "golden parachute" and see where any number of CEOs have landed afterwards.
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