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[Not]

This has never been true.

So you prefer two dudes just being mad about stuff and punching each other, even though one's not even really trying for the sake of dramatic tension, or he didn't plan well enough, or he's being mind controlled by Poison Ivy and has to be punched three times with a Kryptonite ring and electrocuted with all of Metropolis's energy to high heaven before he snaps out of it?

No. This was the shit:

Even Batman told some jokes. The dark, serious tone loses all its flavor the PICOsecond you add a flying dude in a red cape to the mix.

Imagine if you put Rocket Raccoon in The Winter Soldier.

 

[icespide]

first look:

WB must me shitting their pants right now

why did you post a picture of me as spider-man?

 

[Rooster12]

I don't follow. He's black robocop. Adapting it doesn't seem daunting at all

The character was created before Robocop

 

[Shaanyboi]

First weekend sales I wouldn't be concerned about. Word of mouth and second week sales are the kicker.

 

[icespide]

The character was created before Robocop

that wasn't really his point

 

[Not]

Y'know, I don't really even like The Dark Knight Returns or ANY Miller Batman book. Maybe that was a bad example.

Still, I think one option for a good Batman/Superman movie is to make Batman the asshole and Superman the sympathetic, down-to-earth character, not the other way around. Maybe I should consider it more.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

First weekend sales I wouldn't be concerned about. Word of mouth and second week sales are the kicker.

Indeed, from what I remember MoS plummeted for its second week once WoM got out.

 

[Penguin]

So you prefer two dudes just being mad about stuff and punching each other, even though one's not even really trying for the sake of dramatic tension, or he didn't plan well enough, or he's being mind controlled by Poison Ivy and has to be punched three times with a Kryptonite ring and electrocuted with all of Metropolis's energy to high heaven before he snaps out of it?

No. This was the shit:

Even Batman told some jokes. The dark, serious tone loses all its flavor the PICOsecond you add a flying dude in a red cape to the mix.

Imagine if you put Rocket Raccoon in The Winter Soldier.

Batman and Superman are best when it's colorful optimistic All-Star boy scout vs. gruff super-serious Miller antihero

I don't think you watched the same show if you think this was super optimistic Superman and gruff super-serious Batman

 

[Garlador]

First weekend sales I wouldn't be concerned about. Word of mouth and second week sales are the kicker.

This is pretty much it. Batman v Superman was always going to open big. It could be as bad as Batman & Robin and still open big.

Whether what people see is what they like, however... that's for the second and third weeks, and honestly nobody knows how the film will be received.

Man of Steel certainly made money, but it also caused a split in the viewers (I, personally, did not find it to my liking or my own preferred characterization of Superman). Zack Snyder is a director with a hit or miss direction that often champions style over substance, even in his best work.

I think my current prediction is a big opening, average critical reception (I'll go ahead and guess around Man of Steel's reception in the sub-60s), and another mixed reception from audience, with some absolutely loving it and others being disappointed.

I also think i'll make money and be profitable... but I don't know yet if the film is going to meet their expectations. I honestly think it'll be more Man of Steel and Amazing Spider-man 2 than it'll be Avengers or The Dark Knight.

 

[Not]

I don't think you watched the same show if you think this was super optimistic Superman and gruff super-serious Batman

I generalized-- I was just trying to sell the contrast, cause I'm not really seeing that contrast in what I've seen of this movie outside of "powerful" and "rich." As in "this guy's too powerful, thank goodness this guy's rich enough to smack him a few times with a robot suit."

Is there even a shot in the trailers of them working together? Any quips at all? I don't know... something about this movie just bugs me.

Maybe it's because I was pumped to see if a dark, grounded Superman could work in Man of Steel, and when either it really didn't, or Snyder couldn't competently portray him as such, I grew pessimistic.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

This movie feels a year too late. I feel like all the intrigue and hype they had generated died down after the additional 1.5 year delay. This year is littered with superhero movies, all taking their share of the overall mindshare.
It will do well, but I don't think it will achieve all of its potential. This is a Batman and Superman movie -- a few years ago we would all put money down on it blowing the next Marvel movie (whatever it may have been) out of the water box office wise., but just look around, everyone is skeptical and keeping their expectations in check.

 

[Penguin]

I generalized-- I was just trying to sell the contrast, cause I'm not really seeing that contrast in what I've seen of this movie outside of "powerful" and "rich." As in "this guy's too powerful, thank goodness this guy's rich enough to smack him a few times with a robot suit."

Is there even a shot in the trailers of them working together? Any quips at all? I don't know... something about this movie just bugs me.

Maybe it's because I was pumped to see if a dark, grounded Superman could work in Man of Steel, and when either it really didn't, or Snyder couldn't competently portray him as such, I grew pessimistic.

Watch the 2nd trailer... 3rd overall...

I think the end of that trailer is intended to alleviate some of your fears

 

[IconGrist]

This movie feels a year too late. I feel like all the intrigue and hype they had generated died down after the additional 1.5 year delay. This year is littered with superhero movies, all taking their share of the overall mindshare.
It will do well, but I don't think it will achieve all of its potential. This is a Batman and Superman movie -- a few years ago we would all put money down on it blowing the next Marvel movie (whatever it may have been) out of the water box office wise., but just look around, everyone is skeptical and keeping their expectations in check.

GAF is not at all a good representation.

 

[Garlador]

This movie feels a year too late. I feel like all the intrigue and hype they had generated died down after the additional 1.5 year delay. This year is littered with superhero movies, all taking their share of the overall mindshare.
It will do well, but I don't think it will achieve all of its potential. This is a Batman and Superman movie -- a few years ago we would all put money down on it blowing the next Marvel movie (whatever it may have been) out of the water box office wise., but just look around, everyone is skeptical and keeping their expectations in check.

It is weird. I openly admit it's weird. It's bizarre for me to acknowledge I was looking forward to Deadpool and Ant-Man more than BvS. My inner child is screaming at me for this. It's BATMAN. And SUPERMAN. How could I look forward to Doctor Strange more? How come Suicide Squad has me more amped than BvS? How come I'm far more eager to see Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 2 than I am a collision of the two most popular superheroes of all time, two that defined my childhood?

And I think it's because it does feel "too late". It feels like something from the embarrassing "dark and gritty" era of comics that I grew disillusioned with, where cynicism replaced optimism and dark and brooding replaced light and colorful.

Now, whether it pans out that way... I don't know. The film isn't out yet. But from what I've seen, it's been a roller coaster of highs and lows already, of me loving some things while hating others.

There is not that "I just love everything!" feeling I had when the Deadpool trailer leaked for me or that "trust me, I read the comic and if it's like the comic, it'll be great" moment I had when I told my buddy about Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

[MDSLKTR]

This movie feels a year too late. I feel like all the intrigue and hype they had generated died down after the additional 1.5 year delay. This year is littered with superhero movies, all taking their share of the overall mindshare.
It will do well, but I don't think it will achieve all of its potential. This is a Batman and Superman movie -- a few years ago we would all put money down on it blowing the next Marvel movie (whatever it may have been) out of the water box office wise., but just look around, everyone is skeptical and keeping their expectations in check.

I love living in a bubble too, hope you pop up in the box office threads next month

 

[Kelsdesu]

You dismiss him, but he has a point.

 

[Gunslinger]

Can it beat star wars record?
For opening weekend.

 

[IconGrist]

Can it beat star wars record?
For opening weekend.

Highly unlikely.

 

[BadAss2961]

Can it beat star wars record?
For opening weekend.

If you count China too. lol

 

[Nerdkiller]

Wait a minute, did Deadpool not get a 3D release? Someone might need to adjust the opening weekend a bit for BvS if that's going to be the case. Like, even if it does equal Deadpool's 4 day opening, it would still mean that less people attended DC's flick.

 

[Dabanton]

Wait a minute, did Deadpool not get a 3D release? Someone might need to adjust the opening weekend a bit for BvS if that's going to be the case. Like, even if it does equal Deadpool's 4 day opening, it would still mean that less people attended DC's flick.

Deadpool was 2D only.

 

[broncobuster]

Four times the 3D IMAX showings, but happy there's a handful of 2D IMAX screenings.

 

[Ronin Ray]

Spidey is not that big of a deal.

He's the biggest superhero on the planet and no one is really close. He has a world wide appeal that no other comic book character is close to. His merchandise makes more then superman and batman's combined

 

[Not]

Watch the 2nd trailer... 3rd overall...

I think the end of that trailer is intended to alleviate some of your fears

Ok. So the end was the only thing I liked in the whole trailer. Batman's oh sh-- to

Spoiler

Doomsday?

is good stuff, and Wonder Woman is always welcome. Maybe I'll like it more when they stop yelling and screaming in the rain during a somehow-not-one-sided fight and start working together, especially if that brings about a lighter tone.

The rest, hard pass. Come on,

Spoiler

more friggin' Zod

and even more cinematic Lex Luthor butchering? Will Byrne-era Superman EVER be portrayed in a movie? Maybe Justice League will get it right.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Otherwise I would be Lord of the Memes by now

You and me both, man!

 

[Penguin]

This movie feels a year too late. I feel like all the intrigue and hype they had generated died down after the additional 1.5 year delay. This year is littered with superhero movies, all taking their share of the overall mindshare.
It will do well, but I don't think it will achieve all of its potential. This is a Batman and Superman movie -- a few years ago we would all put money down on it blowing the next Marvel movie (whatever it may have been) out of the water box office wise., but just look around, everyone is skeptical and keeping their expectations in check.

I think for us, it's been a LONG road
For most people, it's been less than a year really.
And for an even smaller subset... its been like since the Superbowl or the next 4 weeks

He's the biggest superhero on the planet and no one is really close. He has a world wide appeal that no other comic book character is close to. His merchandise makes more then superman and batman's combined

And yet... Batman and Iron Man have had movies that grossed higher than his.

I think what you miss in that Spider-man comparison is that Marvel would slap his face on anything. Like he sells a lot because he is also just put out more.

 

[Not]

Spidey is not that big of a deal.

The fact that you can even say this shows just how much Sony fucked up the reboot.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Or the smarter thing to do is attach a trailer with a glimpse of Spidey to BvS

Exactly.

People have a lot invested in the pro-wrestling carny aspect of two conglomerates "fighting" each other, but both Marvel Studios and Warner Bros (and it's been the same with DC & Marvel on the publishing side) recognize that if one succeeds it's only good news for the other.

A Civil War trailer in front of Batman v. Superman isn't some sort of encroachment on their territory, any more than a Star Wars trailer in front of Mad Max would have been, yunno? Or a Star Trek trailer in front of Star Wars. Or a Fantastic Beasts trailer in front of Good Dinosaur. etc. etc.

And a Suicide Squad trailer in front of Civil War isn't going to hurt Civil War, either.

Hell, they're just commercials, and most people who even care enough to buy into this fake-ass rivalry in the first place will have already seen them online where they debuted weeks/months earlier anyway.

How little trust would you be admitting you have for your full-length movie if you were honestly worried that a 2 minute commercial preceding it would blow it out of the water?

It's silly .

 

[G-Fex]

Marvel/DC rivalry is stupid? The hell you say!

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Marvel/DC rivalry is stupid? The hell you say!

Tell that to joe quesada

 

[Ronin Ray]

I think for us, it's been a LONG road
For most people, it's been less than a year really.
And for an even smaller subset... its been like since the Superbowl or the next 4 weeks



And yet... Batman and Iron Man have had movies that grossed higher than his.

I think what you miss in that Spider-man comparison is that Marvel would slap his face on anything. Like he sells a lot because he is also just put out more.

You don't think Batman/Superman's face is slapped on just as much stuff ? That logic makes no sense. Batman and Iron Man having higher grossing movies doesn't make him any less of a big deal

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Tell that to joe quesada

Like anyone can tell Joe Quesada anything.

 

[Dysun]

I'd be shocked if it doesn't make 175 million OW

 

[Penguin]

You don't think Batman/Superman's face is slapped on just as much stuff ? That logic makes no sense. Batman and Iron Man having higher grossing movies doesn't make him any less of a big deal

No i mean literally the thing everyone uses to reference it makes note of that

Like look at the difference between what Marvel ships and what DC does

Tell that to joe quesada

So weird that he is so proud of bringing back the rivalry

 

[Senoculum]

No one I know wants to see this movie.

Interesting. So 40 million opening weekend confirmed?

Because everyone I know is going to see it. Even the reluctant ones who don't think Snyder is any good.

And I know three families with kids who are wearing their BVS sweaters and shirts and beanies on Day One.

 

[G-Fex]

Yeah no one likes Superman and people only like Nolan Batman so I think this will not do any well. 70 mil at most overall BO worldwide

 

[guek]

Like look at the difference between what Marvel ships and what DC does

You're ignoring the fact that shipment quantities correlate directly with demand.

 

[Penguin]

You're ignoring the fact that shipment quantities correlate directly with demand.

Eh... debatable... I mean it sells, but even shipping less, Batman sold more than The Avengers and Superman isn't too far behind.

It's not an easy thing, but yeah Spider-man is the biggest selling property from comics.

 

[Ronin Ray]

No i mean literally the thing everyone uses to reference it makes note of that

Like look at the difference between what Marvel ships and what DC does


So weird that he is so proud of bringing back the rivalry

What I am saying is if I take DC as example if they could sell those numbers they would ship those numbers. The reason there shipping less is because there selling less. DC wouldn't t sit back and leave money on the table because there not shipping more.

 

[Senoculum]

He's the biggest superhero on the planet and no one is really close. He has a world wide appeal that no other comic book character is close to. His merchandise makes more then superman and batman's combined

What I am saying is if I take DC as example if they could sell those numbers they would ship those numbers. The reason there shipping less is because there selling less. DC wouldn't t sit back and leave money on the table because there not shipping more.

I know you're referring to that image of of Spider-Man merchandise selling greater than everyone. But I feel like I should make it clear: that figure arrived when Amazing Spiderman 2 was in its run in the international market, so there's obviously a higher number of merchandise during that season. Have you seen L'Oreal adds for their Star Wars line lately? It came went, my friend.

I can almost assure you Sony sold into their PR firm who contacted a blogger, who contacted the analytics, who then contacted marketing mags for this oddly specific timeframe (and not lifetime; nor comparisons of past years; nor comparisons... of, well, anything else really. Just four examples).

I bet you one BvS opening weekend worth if you look at exported merchandise *right now* BVS has everyone beat in all categories. Why? Because there's no Avengers movie right now. There's no Star Wars movie coming out. And there's certainly no Spider-Man news this week.

I just wish everyone to stop referring to these limited statistics, because their only use is to drive flashy headlines. This is the information age, but it's also the misinformation age.

 

[Verendus]

You're ignoring the fact that shipment quantities correlate directly with demand.

Not necessarily. That's a very basic way of looking at things.

Infrastructure means something. Logistics also become incredibly important. Disney, for example, is much better at the merchandising game than pretty much everyone, and their logistical ability will be a big reason for that. It's not an accident that licensed shipment products increased drastically by the time 2014 rolled around, and when Disney had these IP under their belt. It's similar to how SIE is much better than Microsoft and Nintendo on a worldwide basis, and it's due to our strength in various regions, and continued expansion in emerging markets. Our logistical strength plays a part in that, as well as our infrastructure in those countries.

That graph would be more relevant if it provided data on what regions these shipments are heading to, and the breakdown of such figures. That would provide more insight. Looking at that ratio, I imagine if you handed Batman and Superman to Disney, they'd probably double their figures at the very least.

I'd actually be interested in reading this report if it's extensive and available somewhere. Anyone got a link?

 

[Colonel Nasty]

I know you're referring to that image of of Spider-Man merchandise selling greater than everyone. But I feel like I should make it clear: that figure arrived when Amazing Spiderman 2 was in its run in the international market, so there's obviously a higher number of merchandise during that season. Have you seen L'Oreal adds for their Star Wars line lately? It came went, my friend.

I can almost assure you Sony sold into their PR firm who contacted a blogger, who contacted the analytics, who then contacted marketing mags for this oddly specific timeframe (and not lifetime; nor comparisons of past years; nor comparisons... of, well, anything else really. Just four examples).

I bet you one BvS opening weekend worth if you look at exported merchandise *right now* BVS has everyone beat in all categories. Why? Because there's no Avengers movie right now. There's no Star Wars movie coming out. And there's certainly no Spider-Man news this week.

I just wish everyone to stop referring to these limited statistics, because their only use is to drive flashy headlines. This is the information age, but it's also the misinformation age.

That picture clearly says 2013. There was no Spider-Man movie that year, and Sony doesn't do the merchandise. Marvel/Disney does.

 

[shortsFortallPeople]

People seem to forget the Nolan movies weren't in 3D, so that is less money right? Unless in other countries you pay the same price for a 3D movie as the normal version. How much would that 160m for TDKR be if it were in 3D?

but at least the last 2 films did get Imax releases.

It's not exactly the same as having 3d AND an imax release but it's not like they didn't also get some premium ticket sales as well

 

[3N16MA]

Tracking this far out means nothing. Just a random ass guess.

 

[Penguin]

Not necessarily. That's a very basic way of looking at things.

Infrastructure means something. Logistics also become incredibly important. Disney, for example, is much better at the merchandising game than pretty much everyone, and their logistical ability will be a big reason for that. It's not an accident that licensed shipment products increased drastically by the time 2014 rolled around, and when Disney had these IP under their belt. It's similar to how SIE is much better than Microsoft and Nintendo on a worldwide basis, and it's due to our strength in various regions, and continued expansion in emerging markets. Our logistical strength plays a part in that, as well as our infrastructure in those countries.

That graph would be more relevant if it provided data on what regions these shipments are heading to, and the breakdown of such figures. That would provide more insight. Looking at that ratio, I imagine if you handed Batman and Superman to Disney, they'd probably double their figures at the very least.

I'd actually be interested in reading this report if it's extensive and available somewhere. Anyone got a link?

no idea, but the source... and it essentially echoes your point.

Disney is much better (and Marvel has had more time... guess since DC's movies were so sporadic)

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/superhero-earns-13-billion-a-748281

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Someone here broke down that image and why it was more or less bullshit, but I can't find the post right now.

Mighta been Senoculum then, too.

 

[kmag]

I SO want this to do great at the B.O. We need more DC movies. Maybe we'll get Animal Man, Swamp Thing and more too in future?!

I'd rather we get a good movie first and foremost. WB are always going to milk the Batman and Superman franchises, if this turns out to be a legitimately good movie, I don't particularly care about the total box office, it's guaranteed to make decent money so I don't give a toss whether it does gangbusters.

 

[Verendus]

Someone here broke down that image and why it was more or less bullshit, but I can't find the post right now.

Mighta been Senoculum then, too.

Well, any graph like that is generally going to be nonsense.

You can't distill data points so simplistically for comparison, because even a little critical thinking will bring up several potential issues if you have any semblance of understanding about logistics, infrastructure, and just general knowledge of how these avenues tend to work in business.

I'm sure it's great for internet comparisons though where no one really considers much.

Edit:

no idea, but the source... and it essentially echoes your point.

Disney is much better (and Marvel has had more time... guess since DC's movies were so sporadic)

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/superhero-earns-13-billion-a-748281

Thanks.

Checking it out. Although that URL gives me pause. I wasn't expecting some internet article.

Edit 2:

That's not even a report. It's nothing! It's like two paragraphs of nothing.

Thanks anyway.

 

[Ronin Ray]

I know you're referring to that image of of Spider-Man merchandise selling greater than everyone. But I feel like I should make it clear: that figure arrived when Amazing Spiderman 2 was in its run in the international market, so there's obviously a higher number of merchandise during that season. Have you seen L'Oreal adds for their Star Wars line lately? It came went, my friend.

I can almost assure you Sony sold into their PR firm who contacted a blogger, who contacted the analytics, who then contacted marketing mags for this oddly specific timeframe (and not lifetime; nor comparisons of past years; nor comparisons... of, well, anything else really. Just four examples).

I bet you one BvS opening weekend worth if you look at exported merchandise *right now* BVS has everyone beat in all categories. Why? Because there's no Avengers movie right now. There's no Star Wars movie coming out. And there's certainly no Spider-Man news this week.

I just wish everyone to stop referring to these limited statistics, because their only use is to drive flashy headlines. This is the information age, but it's also the misinformation age.

I am honestly not. I am saying that because someone said spidey isn't a big deal which I find crazy. I have always heard how Spider man has been this huge mega hero because he relates to the rest of the world and kids unlike any other hero can.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Calling it, 500 million opening weekend.

Kids will be dressing up as Robot Cavill for Halloween. They'll get the two acting notes he can do down pat, the far away 'did I leave the stove on?' gaze and 'OH MY GOD WHY DID I DO THAT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO' cry that he saw in a bad movie once and decided to emulate.