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[Akibared]

Great post I didn't even realize people think she is a Mary Sue.

 

[Neoweee]

People are too worried about filling out a checklist of Mary Sue criteria, when it is more the spirit of the concept that matters. It is more of a spectrum than a "Must meet all of these criteria". I agree with the original Max Landis argument (pre-TFA) that there has been a shift in action movies towards relatively flawless heroes.

Is this the same character that, within the first 10 minutes gets captured by Kylo, tortured and gives away the info where bb-8 is?
THEN after getting rescued by Finn and gets away in a tie fighter gets shot down and crash lands on Jakku?!?
No, he's definitely no Gary/Mary Sue...

I agree. He's not the most developed character (yet), but there's not much of an argument that he is a Gary. His role is an eight of Finn/Rey's, but he has multiple substantial failures during that time.

 

[Neff]

Rey is a little too close to being able to do absolutely anything with ease, but it's not as if Ridley plays her as such. There's doubt, fear and confusion to her credit, in addition to trust and responsibility issues at the beginning of the film.

I'm ok with Rey.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

The definition of Mary Sue isn't so crucial as what people are trying to say when they throw around the term; namely, that Rey is a dull protagonist. She suffers from Hermione syndrome, in that, in an effort to make a heroine appeal to the female audience in a 'nerdy' piece of fiction, she's made super OP. In Harry Potter, the only thing to really suffer was Ron's character. In SW, as the lead, the hero's journey and overall arc suffers.

She can fight like a pro. She can pilot a spaceship on the first try and outmanuever the tie fighters. She knows the mechanics of the Falcon better than Han and Chewie. Everyone but the villain is instantly fond of her. She gets a grip on the force in no time. Regarding the last one, I reject any suggestions to wait for the sequel for some potential backstory explanation as that is garbage storytelling.

Mary Sue, whatever, doesn't matter what it's called. The point is that the character is dull. She never fails once. Even at the points Kylie Ren appears to have the upper hand she just makes use of force abilities most of which Luke needed three films to pull off. The film is less engaging when the hero is sauntering through danger. This is storytelling 101 that's being swept under the rug for fear of appearing sexist I guess.

 

[Griss]

The definition of Mary Sue isn't so crucial as what people are trying to say when they throw around the term; namely, that Rey is a dull protagonist. She suffers from Hermione syndrome, in that, in an effort to make a heroine appeal to the female audience in a 'nerdy' piece of fiction, she's made super OP. In Harry Potter, the only thing to really suffer was Ron's character. In SW, as the lead, the hero's journey and overall arc suffers.

She can fight like a pro. She can pilot a spaceship on the first try and outmanuever the tie fighters. She knows the mechanics of the Falcon better than Han and Chewie. Everyone but the villain is instantly fond of her. She gets a grip on the force in no time. Regarding the last one, I reject any suggestions to wait for the sequel for some potential backstory explanation as that is garbage storytelling.

Mary Sue, whatever, doesn't matter what it's called. The point is that the character is dull. She never fails once. Even at the points Kylie Ren appears to have the upper hand she just makes use of force abilities most of which Luke needed three films to pull off. The film is less engaging when the hero is sauntering through danger. This is storytelling 101 that's being swept under the rug for fear of appearing sexist I guess.

Damn, I haven't seen Star Wars yet but she sounds positively awful.

Also, if we can't use the term Mary Sue we still need a term for ultra-dull protagonists like Ciri from The Witcher 3 who just wreck narratives by drawing the whole story around their own flawless, dull selves. And Ciri is the best example of what I would consider a Mary Sue in a long time. Rey from Star Wars sounds similar.

 

[Angel_DvA]

The definition of Mary Sue isn't so crucial as what people are trying to say when they throw around the term; namely, that Rey is a dull protagonist. She suffers from Hermione syndrome, in that, in an effort to make a heroine appeal to the female audience in a 'nerdy' piece of fiction, she's made super OP. In Harry Potter, the only thing to really suffer was Ron's character. In SW, as the lead, the hero's journey and overall arc suffers.

She can fight like a pro. She can pilot a spaceship on the first try and outmanuever the tie fighters. She knows the mechanics of the Falcon better than Han and Chewie. Everyone but the villain is instantly fond of her. She gets a grip on the force in no time. Regarding the last one, I reject any suggestions to wait for the sequel for some potential backstory explanation as that is garbage storytelling.

Mary Sue, whatever, doesn't matter what it's called. The point is that the character is dull. She never fails once. Even at the points Kylie Ren appears to have the upper hand she just makes use of force abilities most of which Luke needed three films to pull off. The film is less engaging when the hero is sauntering through danger. This is storytelling 101 that's being swept under the rug for fear of appearing sexist I guess.

We're done here.

 

[Neoweee]

Damn, I haven't seen Star Wars yet but she sounds positively awful.

But she isn't awful, which is why so many people can defend her and are defending her. All three of the new protagonists are entertaining characters, and all are actually pretty well-acted, which can't be said about 1&4.

The filmmakers just didn't do a good job of giving her that much depth, or flaws. The villains are more interesting than the heroes, and discussions of Kylo Ren's character are much deeper than discussions about Rey.

 

[LosDaddie]

The definition of Mary Sue isn't so crucial as what people are trying to say when they throw around the term; namely, that Rey is a dull protagonist. She suffers from Hermione syndrome, in that, in an effort to make a heroine appeal to the female audience in a 'nerdy' piece of fiction, she's made super OP. In Harry Potter, the only thing to really suffer was Ron's character. In SW, as the lead, the hero's journey and overall arc suffers.

She can fight like a pro. She can pilot a spaceship on the first try and outmanuever the tie fighters. She knows the mechanics of the Falcon better than Han and Chewie. Everyone but the villain is instantly fond of her. She gets a grip on the force in no time. Regarding the last one, I reject any suggestions to wait for the sequel for some potential backstory explanation as that is garbage storytelling.

Mary Sue, whatever, doesn't matter what it's called. The point is that the character is dull. She never fails once. Even at the points Kylie Ren appears to have the upper hand she just makes use of force abilities most of which Luke needed three films to pull off. The film is less engaging when the hero is sauntering through danger. This is storytelling 101 that's being swept under the rug for fear of appearing sexist I guess.

You see, I'm totally with you on almost everything in your post, but Neff here summed up my feelings on the character:

Rey is a little too close to being able to do absolutely anything with ease, but it's not as if Ridley plays her as such. There's doubt, fear and confusion to her credit, in addition to trust and responsibility issues at the beginning of the film.

I'm ok with Rey.

Daisey did a great job as Rey, so I'm ok with it.

 

[Chuckie]

Rey is a little too close to being able to do absolutely anything with ease, but it's not as if Ridley plays her as such. There's doubt, fear and confusion to her credit, in addition to trust and responsibility issues at the beginning of the film.

I'm ok with Rey.

Word. I adore her even though I see flaws in how the character was written. It does come a bit too easy for her, but Daisy plays her so charming that I do not mind that.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

You see, I'm totally with you on almost everything in your post, but Neff here summed up my feelings on the character:



Daisey did a great job as Rey, so I'm ok with it.

Don't get me wrong, I thought Daisy was great too. The character's problem was 100% with the writing. No acting could offset that.

 

[voodoopanda]

I keep seeing people, regardless of whether they consider her a Mary Sue or not, saying that she never fails once at anything in the movie and always succeeds, like it's an inarguable fact. But I feel like she fails at least at one point in the movie, and it's a very important part as it sets up a parallel to the last fight and the overall arc of Kylo Ren's story.

Kylo is set up as this very powerful, very terrifying figure at the beginning of the movie. Both for the characters in the movie as well as for the audience. When Kylo Ren and Rey have their first fight, Rey is terrified. She's shooting her blaster all over the place, backing away, as he easily deflects shots and most of the shots seem to miss him wildly. He force-freezes her entire body and knocks her out, kidnapping her. This is Rey being absolutely defeated by Kylo Ren as if its nothing, because she's terrified of him and he is in control. She loses this fight, and it feels like she had no chance at all, Kylo completely overpowered her. This feels to me like Rey failing at something ?

But then a major shift happens, when Kylo Ren starts reading Rey's mind and she is able to fight back and read some of his mind and realizes that Kylo Ren is scared himself, and says so. Kylo's power was mostly in his intimidation and the confidence that gave him. Taking off the mask, we see he isn't actually Darth Vader 2.0 but practically a kid and Rey learns this as well.

This therefore sets up the fight at the end when they meet again, this time Kylo Ren's facade has been cracked and Rey has newfound confidence and a lack of fear, a great parallel to their first encounter as we feel like we know both characters true selves better and their roles are somewhat reversed. Especially since the power of the force is all about one's mindset and emotion.

I just don't know how you can say she never failed at anything when you see her so easily defeated and captured when she first runs into Kylo Ren.

 

[Renekton]

The funny thing is, Luke had very similar problems (not having enough character flaws, except maybe caring too much about his friends)

How so?

1. Struggled with Jedi training under Kenobi. Struggled with Yoda. Poor force proficiency for a long time, such as no mind trick until EP6.

2. Gawked dorkily as Leia during EP4 rescue. Still dorked it up a bit in EP5.

3. Showed groan-inducing immaturity to Yoda.

4. Couldn't beat Darth Vader until 3rd movie, got destroyed in second.

5. Kenobi and Han did most of the legwork in EP4, including the bright ideas. Luke's only major contribution was with big help from Wedge, Han and Kenobi.

 

[Tonedeff]

Rey is a little too close to being able to do absolutely anything with ease, but it's not as if Ridley plays her as such. There's doubt, fear and confusion to her credit, in addition to trust and responsibility issues at the beginning of the film.

I'm ok with Rey.

This is exactly how I feel

 

[Veelk]

2. Gawked dorkily as Leia during EP4 rescue. Still dorked it up a bit in EP5.

How is this even a flaw?

 

[munchie64]

Damn, I haven't seen Star Wars yet but she sounds positively awful.

Also, if we can't use the term Mary Sue we still need a term for ultra-dull protagonists like Ciri from The Witcher 3 who just wreck narratives by drawing the whole story around their own flawless, dull selves. And Ciri is the best example of what I would consider a Mary Sue in a long time. Rey from Star Wars sounds similar.

It's nothing like that at all lol

 

[Osahi]

I keep seeing people, regardless of whether they consider her a Mary Sue or not, saying that she never fails once at anything in the movie and always succeeds, like it's an inarguable fact. But I feel like she fails at least at one point in the movie, and it's a very important part as it sets up a parallel to the last fight and the overall arc of Kylo Ren's story.

Kylo is set up as this very powerful, very terrifying figure at the beginning of the movie. Both for the characters in the movie as well as for the audience. When Kylo Ren and Rey have their first fight, Rey is terrified. She's shooting her blaster all over the place, backing away, as he easily deflects shots and most of the shots seem to miss him wildly. He easily force-freezes her entire body and knocks her out, kidnapping her. This is Rey being absolutely defeated by Kylo Ren as if its nothing, because she's terrified of him and he is absolutely in control. She loses this fight. This feels to me like Rey failing at something ?

But then a major shift happens, when Kylo Ren starts reading Rey's mind and she is able to fight back and read some of his mind and realizes that Kylo Ren is scared himself, and says so. Kylo's power was mostly in his intimidation and the confidence that gave him. Taking off the mask, we see he isn't actually Darth Vader 2.0 but practically a kid and Rey learns this as well.

This therefore sets up the fight at the end when they meet again, this time Kylo Ren's facade has been cracked and Rey has newfound confidence and a lack of fear, a great parallel to their first encounter as we feel like we know both characters true selves better. Especially since the power of the force is all about one's mindset and emotion.

I just don't know how you can say she never failed at anything when you see her so easily defeated and captured when she first runs into Kylo Ren.

I was also wondering if it isn't Kylo who awakes her Force. He seems to conect his mind to his victims when torturing them. What if there is some kind of bleeding effect that makes Rey subconciously aware of her Force powers?

It is the same with the saber. When coming in contact with stuff (from her past), her Force awakens.

I agree she gets realy powerfull really fast, but I didn't mind. I don't feel like she is a flat character at all.

 

[The Librarian]

Everyone but the villain is instantly fond of her.

It's amazing the double standards being applied to Rey and not Luke. This same thing could be said for him, but it's only a problem for Rey.

Hm.

 

[Renekton]

How is this even a flaw?

how is it not?

The definition of Mary Sue isn't so crucial as what people are trying to say when they throw around the term; namely, that Rey is a dull protagonist. She suffers from Hermione syndrome, in that, in an effort to make a heroine appeal to the female audience in a 'nerdy' piece of fiction, she's made super OP. In Harry Potter, the only thing to really suffer was Ron's character. In SW, as the lead, the hero's journey and overall arc suffers.

She can fight like a pro. She can pilot a spaceship on the first try and outmanuever the tie fighters. She knows the mechanics of the Falcon better than Han and Chewie. Everyone but the villain is instantly fond of her. She gets a grip on the force in no time. Regarding the last one, I reject any suggestions to wait for the sequel for some potential backstory explanation as that is garbage storytelling.

Mary Sue, whatever, doesn't matter what it's called. The point is that the character is dull. She never fails once. Even at the points Kylie Ren appears to have the upper hand she just makes use of force abilities most of which Luke needed three films to pull off. The film is less engaging when the hero is sauntering through danger. This is storytelling 101 that's being swept under the rug for fear of appearing sexist I guess.

Well put... though maybe not garbage storytelling, just pandering (I need a better word) with her design and arc.

 

[deathkiller]

I was also wondering if it isn't Kylo who awakes her Force. He seems to conect his mind to his victims when torturing them. What if there is some kind of bleeding effect that makes Rey subconciously aware of her Force powers?

It is the same with the saber. When coming in contact with stuff (from her past), her Force awakens.

I agree she gets realy powerfull really fast, but I didn't mind. I don't feel like she is a flat character at all.

They are a lot of ways they could had used to explain why Rey gets so good with the force so quickly, they choose to use none.

Just having a small scene showing her "awakening" as force user from her perspective would had been enough. Instead what we got was that when she force suggested for first time instead of being amazed that it worked she was portrait as annoyed that it took a few tries.

 

[Veelk]

how is it not?

What is this, the 90's? Being a dork is just a personality trait. It's like saying being a romantic is a virtue. It's just a part of who people are that makes them distinct, but not really good or bad except in very certain contexts. Usually, it doesn't matter. And how in the hell did it hurt him in the narrative? If he actually was suave and landed Leia in bed, he'd have gone into an incestuous relationship. Sounds like being less than James Bond helped him dodge a bullet there.

 

[Gun Animal]

How so?

1. Struggled with Jedi training under Kenobi. Struggled with Yoda. Poor force proficiency for a long time, such as no mind trick until EP6.

2. Gawked dorkily as Leia during EP4 rescue. Still dorked it up a bit in EP5.

3. Showed groan-inducing immaturity to Yoda.

4. Couldn't beat Darth Vader until 3rd movie, got destroyed in second.

5. Kenobi and Han did most of the legwork in EP4, including the bright ideas. Luke's only major contribution was with big help from Wedge, Han and Kenobi.

All I said was that his personality was flawless except for caring too much about his friends, so 1, 4 and 5 don't apply. I don't really see your second point either but I ABSOLUTELY agree with your third point and can't believe I forgot what a jerk he was to Yoda at first. It was an important moment that illustrated how much Luke had to learn and the immaterial nature of the force, and I can only hope for a similar moment between Rey and Luke in episode VIII. Being dismissive/doubtful of Luke at first would do loads for her character.

 

[Starfield]

I still wonder if this First Order's General is metrosexual.


Edit: General Hux

I mean, look at him

If he isn't metro then idk

I have nothing against it but I would wanna know

 

[Renekton]

What is this, the 90's?

70s and 80s.

Being a dork is just a personality trait. It's like saying being a romantic is a virtue. It's just a part of who people are that makes them distinct, but not really good or bad except in very certain contexts. Usually, it doesn't matter. And how in the hell did it hurt him in the narrative? If he actually was suave and landed Leia in bed, he'd have gone into an incestuous relationship. Sounds like being less than James Bond helped him dodge a bullet there.

WTF did I just read haha

 

[The Librarian]

They are a lot of ways they could had used to explain why Rey gets so good with the force so quickly, they choose to use none.

Immediately after Rey successfully pilots the falcon with such expertise, we cut to Snoke saying that there has been an "awakening." After she successfully resists Ren's mind attacks, Snoke wants Ren to bring her to him. When Rey escapes, Ren informs another trooper that the longer she resists capture, the more dangerous she becomes.

I'm not sure what else the movie could've done to tell audiences that she's extremely powerful in the force.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Movie is a soft reboot so they had to cram in episodes 4, 5, and 6 to play the nostalgia card. The movie was lightspeed paced so her powering up and doing all this stuff is just a side effect. Hopefully things are explored more in the sequels (she's probably was a jedi in training but was wiped of her memories by Luke). Either way, you judge the movie based on what's shown and not what may be shown in future installments.

 

[Veelk]

70s and 80s.

No,its 2016 almost. Get with the times. Even within the movie, it's not depicted as a negative thing.

WTF did I just read haha

Well, spoiler alert, but Luke is actually Leia's brother. I can't imagine why you would think being dorkily and gawky to women is undesirable at all except for the purposes of getting with them, so if that's not what you meant, I have even less of an idea why what you described is a flaw than before.

 

[Eidan]

The definition of Mary Sue isn't so crucial as what people are trying to say when they throw around the term; namely, that Rey is a dull protagonist. She suffers from Hermione syndrome, in that, in an effort to make a heroine appeal to the female audience in a 'nerdy' piece of fiction, she's made super OP. In Harry Potter, the only thing to really suffer was Ron's character. In SW, as the lead, the hero's journey and overall arc suffers.

She can fight like a pro. She can pilot a spaceship on the first try and outmanuever the tie fighters. She knows the mechanics of the Falcon better than Han and Chewie. Everyone but the villain is instantly fond of her. She gets a grip on the force in no time. Regarding the last one, I reject any suggestions to wait for the sequel for some potential backstory explanation as that is garbage storytelling.

Mary Sue, whatever, doesn't matter what it's called. The point is that the character is dull. She never fails once. Even at the points Kylie Ren appears to have the upper hand she just makes use of force abilities most of which Luke needed three films to pull off. The film is less engaging when the hero is sauntering through danger. This is storytelling 101 that's being swept under the rug for fear of appearing sexist I guess.

But she does fail. It's her fault that those monsters were set loose on Han's freighter. She gets Herself captured by Ren. Rey seems to be problematic for some simply because she overcame obstacles...like the hero in an adventure film. It seems your issue isn't that she doesn't fail. It's that she doesn't fail enough for your liking. Which is just a weird angle to me.

 

[commish]

Immediately after Rey successfully pilots the falcon with such expertise, we cut to Snoke saying that there has been an "awakening." After she successfully resists Ren's mind attacks, Snoke wants Ren to bring her to him. When Rey escapes, Ren informs another trooper that the longer she resists capture, the more dangerous she becomes.

I'm not sure what else the movie could've done to tell audiences that she's extremely powerful in the force.

Being strong with the force isn't the same as being able to use the force so effectively.

 

[kingocfs]

But she does fail. It's her fault that those monsters were set loose on Han's freighter. She gets Herself captured by Ren. Rey seems to be problematic for some simply because she overcame obstacles...like the hero in an adventure film. It seems your issue isn't that she doesn't fail. It's that she doesn't fail enough for your liking. Which is just a weird angle to me.

She also almost crashes the Falcon at first and can't figure out blasters. But maybe there should be more...

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

It's amazing the double standards being applied to Rey and not Luke. This same thing could be said for him, but it's only a problem for Rey.

Hm.

What are you talking about. Luke is a dork who is mocked as such throughout ANH.

 

[commish]

She also almost crashes the Falcon at first and can't figure out blasters. But maybe there should be more...

Yes, and there was a scene where her hair looked a little out of place. Such bullshit when people say she was perfect all the time.

 

[Peru]

I will go as far as to say anyone who calls her a mary sue or hints at the possibility is an idiot whose every opinion is invalid.

 

[deathkiller]

Immediately after Rey successfully pilots the falcon with such expertise, we cut to Snoke saying that there has been an "awakening." After she successfully resists Ren's mind attacks, Snoke wants Ren to bring her to him. When Rey escapes, Ren informs another trooper that the longer she resists capture, the more dangerous she becomes.

I'm not sure what else the movie could've done to tell audiences that she's extremely powerful in the force.

You could had read the second part of my post for example. What you mention is not different that the talent/power Anakin/Luke where supposed to have but Rey is far more talented/powerful than them. I don't have any problem with that but we could at least had Snoke saying something like "I have never felt before a power of that magnitude" or a "how is possible so fast?" by Ren. The film barely acknowledges she being the exception within the exceptional.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

But she does fail. It's her fault that those monsters were set loose on Han's freighter. She gets Herself captured by Ren. Rey seems to be problematic for some simply because she overcame obstacles...like the hero in an adventure film. It seems your issue isn't that she doesn't fail. It's that she doesn't fail enough for your liking. Which is just a weird angle to me.

Those don't seem to be failures in my opinion. They don't have long lasting effects because, even though they're mistakes, they work out for her. If she releases the monsters and, let's say, a monster eats Chewie's arm I would agree but her releasing the monsters saved them all just like how closing the door and releasing the gas would. She still made a mistake but the story portrays it as working out regardless so, really, she didn't fail at anything.

 

[The Librarian]

What are you talking about. Luke is a dork who is mocked as such throughout ANH.

I seem to recall that Han warms up to him, Leia and Chewie warm up to him, R2D2, Obi-Won, C3PO, and then he's loved by the entire Rebellion!

And of course his aunt and uncle loved him too. Everybody loves Luke!

 

[Eidan]

Thanks to the amazing insight of some in this thread, I now realize that the Jason Bourne series is complete garbage. I mean God. Bourne just keeps...succeeding. Awful. It's pretty clear his entire character was made to fulfill an agenda.

 

[Gun Animal]

I still wonder if this First Order's General is metrosexual.


Edit: General Hux

I mean, look at him

If he isn't metro then idk

I have nothing against it but I would wanna know

metrosexual is just a label for "tentatively heterosexual guys who are more fashionable and/or groomed than is socially normal" so uh

It would probably depend which planet/culture he's from!

By the standards of Americans on earth in the year 2015, he could definitely be considered metro. But it's kind of a weird term.

 

[The Librarian]

You could had read the second part of my post for example. What you mention is not different that the talent/power Anakin/Luke where supposed to have but Rey is far more talented/powerful than them. I don't have any problem with that but we could at least had Snoke saying something like "I have never felt before a power of that magnitude" or a "how is possible so fast?" by Ren. The film barely acknowledges she being the exception within the exceptional.

The movie showed her exceptionality in a different way than you wanted. I'm sorry?

 

[Eidan]

Those don't seem to be failures in my opinion. They don't have long lasting effects because, even though they're mistakes, they work out for her. If she releases the monsters and, let's say, a monster eats Chewie's arm I would agree but her releasing the monsters saved them all just like how closing the door and releasing the gas would. She still made a mistake but the story portrays it as working out regardless so, really, she didn't fail at anything.

Right. So what were these long lasting failures that we saw Luke conduct in ANH again? What amputees did his actions create?

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

But she does fail. It's her fault that those monsters were set loose on Han's freighter. She gets Herself captured by Ren. Rey seems to be problematic for some simply because she overcame obstacles...like the hero in an adventure film. It seems your issue isn't that she doesn't fail. It's that she doesn't fail enough for your liking. Which is just a weird angle to me.

Letting the monsters loose is a happy coincidence. More importantly, it doesn't have a lasting effect on the character. Not like, say, getting one's hand chopped off by Vader or having one's home burned down by Stormtroopers. Her escape from Kylo Ten is also a cakewalk due to the OP force powers.

And yes, the fact she doesn't fail enough is my whole point. Her arc is a pretty basic action hero arc, but it fails at making the hero suffer to any significant degree, thus making their eventual triumph vastly less satisfying. Being captured by Ren is her only major slip-up, but it doesn't leave any lasting effect on the character. It's basic storytelling, and they screwed it up.

Edit:

I seem to recall that Han warms up to him, Leia and Chewie warm up to him, R2D2, Obi-Won, C3PO, and then he's loved by the entire Rebellion!

And of course his aunt and uncle loved him too. Everybody loves Luke!

They warm up to him at the end of the film. The Luke-Han relationship is gradual and well-paced. They spend a considerable amount of the film not seeing eye-to-eye. This is the kind of character conflict that TFA is missing with regards to the main character since it seems afraid to portray the hero as weak in any way.

And come on about Luke's foster parents. They love him like family but are sick of his bullshit about wanting to leave.

 

[commish]

Thanks to the amazing insight of some in this thread, I now realize that the Jason Bourne series is complete garbage. I mean God. Bourne just keeps...succeeding. Awful. It's pretty clear his entire character was made to fulfill an agenda.

I honestly have no idea how you could have read this thread and then said this. No one is saying SW is "garbage", and to compare Rey to Bourne is just silly. Being a "Mary Sue" (What a dumb term) isn't just about always succeeding, as this thread has established, oh, in the first post.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Right. So what were these long lasting failures that we saw Luke conduct in ANH again? What amputees did his actions create?

Why are you bringing Luke up with me? Oh... you think I find the Rey character good but not great because I'm a sexist. I didn't find Luke all that great either.

No one's saying Star Wars: The Force Awakens is a bad movie, they're just saying there's issues with the movie that don't make it 10/10. I enjoyed the movie. I think to some people who are really invested think is an attack on the movie.

 

[entremet]

Letting the monsters loose is a happy coincidence. More importantly, it doesn't have a lasting effect on the character. Not like, say, getting one's hand chopped off by Vader or having one's home burned down by Stormtroopers. Her escape from Kylo Ten is also a cakewalk due to the OP force powers.

And yes, the fact she doesn't fail enough is my whole point. Her arc is a pretty basic action hero arc, but it fails at making the hero suffer to any significant degree, thus making their eventual triumph vastly less satisfying. Being captured by Ren is her only major slip-up, but it doesn't leave any lasting effect on the character. It's basic storytelling, and they screwed it up.

It seems that Kylo Ren's arc is more interesting to me after TFA. Rey is a bit of a bore.

I wonder, like the original and prequel trilogies, if the dark side user will steal the show again.

 

[Frodo]

Thanks to the amazing insight of some in this thread, I now realize that the Jason Bourne series is complete garbage. I mean God. Bourne just keeps...succeeding. Awful. It's pretty clear his entire character was made to fulfill an agenda.

This tea...

 

[commish]

Why are you bringing Luke up with me? Oh... you think I find the Rey character good but not great because I'm a sexist. I didn't find Luke all that great either.

No one's saying Star Wars: The Force Awakens is a bad movie, they're just saying there's issues with the movie that don't make it 10/10. I enjoyed the movie. I think to some people who are really invested this is an attack on the movie.

There are a lot of people who are trying really hard to make this about her sex. It's a little disconcerting.

 

[Afrodium]

She also almost crashes the Falcon at first and can't figure out blasters. But maybe there should be more...

It speaks for itself when a defense of Rey having weaknesses is her having 15 seconds of difficulty piloting a ship she's never flown and leaving the safety on her blaster before immediately taking out three trained soldiers. It's fine to like Rey and want to see more of the character. Ridley does a great job and even I have to say that while I'm aware of character's problems from a storytelling perspective, I still like Rey. However, I think that the fact that the "Rey as a Mary Sue" discussion has blown up so much is because there's something to the argument. Anecdotal, I know, but every person I've seen the movie with has commented on Rey being too good at The Force/everything immediately after walking out of the theater.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

There are a lot of people who are trying really hard to make this about her sex. It's a little disconcerting.

OK. Am I those people? No. Treat me as such or why discuss this as it will go in circles.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Those don't seem to be failures in my opinion. They don't have long lasting effects because, even though they're mistakes, they work out for her. If she releases the monsters and, let's say, a monster eats Chewie's arm I would agree but her releasing the monsters saved them all just like how closing the door and releasing the gas would. She still made a mistake but the story portrays it as working out regardless so, really, she didn't fail at anything.

So your issue is that her failings don't have the catastrophic effects that you were hoping for?

Yes I am a bit confused over your argument.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Thanks to the amazing insight of some in this thread, I now realize that the Jason Bourne series is complete garbage. I mean God. Bourne just keeps...succeeding. Awful. It's pretty clear his entire character was made to fulfill an agenda.

If his assassin abilities materialised out of thin air instead being due to the fact he is an assassin you may have had a point.

 

[BattleshipErnest]

How about refusing to take the Falcon instantly because she thought it was garbage? Or not being able to tell that Finn was lying about being a Rebel?

She's the hero, so she's more awesome than everyone else and able to get out of bad situations...only real "flaw" is because she's a woman she'll never get dirty or see her face all mussed up. And even if she does get grimey, it'll be presentable grime. She'll always look pristine and photo op friendly. But that's a more big budge blockbuster deal than anything.