Support NeoGAF

[rhino4evr]

What a nice punch in the gut just before release. Got to love GS for keeping things interesting at least.

I'm not worried, I've enjoyed every Zelda game, and I'm sure I'll enjoy this one.

More importantly, the game doesn't have to be OMG Best Zelda ever! For it to be a classic in my book.

 

[butter_stick]

I didn't read the full review because I don't want to spoil myself, but from what I read of the first paragraph, I got the impression that the score is because the motion controls weren't a big seller for the reviewer and that they feel Zelda's going through the motions due to a predictable formula.

For those who've read the full review, is this an accurate assessment of the full review, or were their other qualms? I'm curious.

Pretty much.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Taken from my fb status:

I have a hard time reconciling the fact that Jeff Gerstmann, the man who gave OoT a 10/10 and has gone on the record as saying it's the best game he's ever played, gave Twilight Princess an 8.8 of his own volition. Gerstmann was likely told to tow the company line by giving the game a poor review. Gamespot's reasoning was twofold: 1. It advanced the idea that GS's scores were strict and thus meaningful, and 2: it planted the seeds for Gerstmann's firing by increasing the public's collective animosity towards Gerstmann.

This is all starting to come together.

Wow those poor 4 people who decided to friend you.

Anyway who fucking cares what Gamespot gave it and why does it matter? I thought you guys said you only trust Edge, or was it Eurogamer? Either way both gave it a ten, not to mention IGN giving another polarizing game a ten(LOL!). And since this is Zelda this game will have those that love it and those that hate it, I'm getting this since I bought a Wii and I need to feel like I actually used it enough this gen. And yes I'm a raging Zeldasexual with the hardest of hard ons for the series.

 

[Yagharek]

Yes, probably he was trying to control the bow using IR remote.

I legitimately believe anyone that has to 'fight' with SS control, either doesn't know how they function, or that his hardware is not working.

While that may be true (I dont know, I'm only going by people's posts in here on the review) - it might also be the case that the reviewer fundamentally struggles with the very principle of wiimote in third person action type games.

I know I fundamentally cannot play PC FPS games due to kbam. My brain cannot ever make sense of that control method. Dual analog on consoles also weirded me out to begin with (I think Timesplitters was the first game I played using that setup, and I struggled fo aaaaages to move and shoot at the same time - and I still suck at console FPS games too).

Maybe the GS reviewer has a similar inability to adjust to wii m+ controls in Zelda. Maybe he had a bad day. Maybe more people will find out the controls are bad for them. Who knows.

It's not worth getting worked up over in any case.

 

[Leonsito]

I still haven't finished TP, I abandoned in the water temple iirc.

To be honest, 3D Zeldas are worse than 2D Zeldas for me by far, only OoT is truly great, MM, WW and TP have some big problems that didn't make the games so fun, as LttP or LA, or the Oracle games.

 

[RurouniZel]

Pretty much.

Then I'm good with that. The motion controls I'll have to actually play to know whether they work for me (I think they will), but the formula doesn't bother me in the slightest. If formulas bothered me, I'd have quit Dragon Quest ages ago. XD

 

[Massa]

Yes, probably he was trying to control the bow using IR remote.

I legitimately believe anyone that has to 'fight' with SS control, either doesn't know how they function, or that his hardware is not working.

Please stop. You're going to end up taking all the space in the wall of a shame, leave some for other fellow gaffers.

 

[milkyjay20]

Having to play a song to change direction is just a baffling design choice to me.

yeah, but that cutscene was just magical, even after the hundredth time.

of course you're right. tww is deeply flawed; however, i got every piece of treasure, and took pictures of every single thing in the game, and i loved all of it despite being a pain in my ass. tww is pure magic <3

I love the Zelda cicle, now everyone loves TP, despite being described as awful and boring during the last years.

i sure as shit don't. gaf isn't the borg here, we all have our own opinions. in fact, i loved TP when i first played it, but i'm a victim to zelda hype and hyrule castle looked awesome. nowadays, i realize that TP has nothing to offer to someone like me.

 

[BGBW]

Who remembers Salvatore:

...or Grog:

???

 

[Yoshichan]

edit: fail

 

[BGBW]

test

What?

 

[heringer]

You know, I'm not surprised at the GS score. In fact, I'm surprised the game is not as polarizing as I expected. It's a motion control game through and through, and even if the controls worked flawlessly, some people will never like it.

I was expecting Majora's Mask levels of polarization, but it appears the game has been universally praised aside from very few publications.

 

[Yoshichan]

What?

When you quoted him, the images got small so I thought that new GAF patch had arrived so I quoted you, in hopes of getting the same result

 

[Ogni-XR21]

Got myself a component cable just for this game... cannot wait!

 

[Alexios]

i loved TP when i first played it, but i'm a victim to zelda hype and hyrule castle looked awesome. nowadays, i realize that TP has nothing to offer to someone like me.

I'm not sure if this is a joke post or not... You loved the game but now realise it was just your hype (errr, ok) and it's not so great because it has nothing for you? Wouldn't that be because you like, loved it already and it's no longer a new experience? Not exactly high on the replay value these games, they're all about the first experience like most progression driven games... Puzzles, boss patterns, exploration, the bulk of the game is only wondrous the first time, then you've seen and know it all...

 

[Leonsito]

I challenge you or anyone who agrees with you to find posts from people championing Twilight Princess from two years ago that contradict what they're saying now, because until then posts like this are pointless.

Nah, it isn't worth the work

I know gaf isn't a hive mind, it was a joke. I suppose it's a matter of that when the review hits, haters are more vocal, with the pass of the years, only the people that really like the game keep talking about it.

 

[Bluemercury]

Complaining about a 7.5 from GS seems kind of trivial when you see the same game also has an Edge 10. Not to say that GS is irrelevant - but rather what that says about the game itself.

To me it basically says that some consider it to be a fantastic game, one of the best in recent years and that it validates the Wii control scheme (paraphrasing the Edge review somewhat). The GS review (Ive not read it due fear of spoilers) seems to have issues with controls. I'll assume that they are genuine complaints that bothered that particular reviewer.

How does that all influence me? Simple - I'm in the group that has almost universally found wii controls to be generally easy to get to grips with from day 1. So I'm happy to assume that in all likelihood, the game controls will be fine for me.

If I were someone who did have problems with wii controls though, I'd take the GS review as reason to be concerned and maybe try a demo first.

At the end of the day though, all that really matters to me is my own enjoyment of it, so I hope I do find it to be closer to the high end of the scale. It's been a while since a game has really taken me.

The problem is that a 7.5 of a game that keeps getting excellent reviews all around reeks like calling for attention even more when you consider how late the review was out. Also if this gets a 7.5, no matter how great a Zelda game will be, GS will always "ignore" it...

 

[Refreshment.01]

To those saying a video game review "is not right or wrong becuase it's subjective", i don't share that sentiment. A videogame review is not solely composed of an opinion, in this sense it's not similar to a critic interpretation of a work of art. There's also an objective, product like side that should be contemplated in the review process.

I think we can agree that game reviewers should be more upfront and transparent, start being more clear about saying what aspects of the game are the ones that deduct more points from the experience.

The GS reviewer has some very valid complaints.

Now, "inconsistent controls that torment" is not a subjective aspect of the game. People do have controller preferences (true) but his statement implies controls don't work, which goes against the majority of experiences botht from users and reviewers. Going from this fact, if he was endeed having problems with his set up some research should've been made because something abnormal was going on. Controls are really responsive and quiet intuitive in this game.

 

[walking fiend]

While that may be true (I dont know, I'm only going by people's posts in here on the review) - it might also be the case that the reviewer fundamentally struggles with the very principle of wiimote in third person action type games.

I know I fundamentally cannot play PC FPS games due to kbam. My brain cannot ever make sense of that control method. Dual analog on consoles also weirded me out to begin with (I think Timesplitters was the first game I played using that setup, and I struggled fo aaaaages to move and shoot at the same time - and I still suck at console FPS games too).

Maybe the GS reviewer has a similar inability to adjust to wii m+ controls in Zelda. Maybe he had a bad day. Maybe more people will find out the controls are bad for them. Who knows.

It's not worth getting worked up over in any case.

But how did he struggle with IR while it is not used the game? just saying...

Anyhow, what irritates me, is that people who have not even played the demo, come here and say: oh wow,another U3 situation, what a meltdown, oh wow!



Anyhow, I don't really care much; these nab reviews will be buried under the user impressions sooner or later; CoD haters didn't prevent it from selling bucket loads either

 

[BGBW]

Also if this gets a 7.5, no matter how great a Zelda game will be, GS will always "ignore" it...

Oh no...(!)

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

I had to turn off the bombcast as they were talking about Zelda.

I just don't get the inconsistency in the gaming press regarding zelda and other games.

Secondly, you rate opinions by their reasonableness. Some opinions are so unreasonable they're not even worth listening to.

Not all opinions are created equally.

 

[milkyjay20]

I'm not sure if this is a joke post or not... You loved the game but now it's not so great because it has nothing for you? Wouldn't that be because you like, loved it already and it's no longer a new experience? Not exactly high on the replay value these games, they're all about the first experience like most progression driven games...

i don't play games just once. i've played ocarina countless times, and i can't even look at alttp anymore i've played it so much.

the first time playing through TP was a fanboy haze. the second and third time revealed how mindless and sterile the whole thing is. i've certainly had that argument before though, so you're just gonna have to deal with me not liking it.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Just had a look at the thread for the first time in quite a while, and though I'm typing on my phone at work and don't have enough time to go into too much depth, I just want to say that I think different opinions are awesome.

And the Zelda cycle supposed meme is rubbish. My opinion of Twilight Princess the moment the credits started rolling on the Gamecube version is that it was lackluter and frightfully dull and uninspired. My subsequent second playthrough on the Wii, and enjoyment and disappointment with subsequent Zelda games, has done nothing to alter that opinion.

Opinions are awesome.

 

[EatChildren]

Now, "inconsistent controls that torment" is not a subjective aspect of the game. People do have controller preferences (true) but his statement implies controls don't work, which goes against the majority of experiences but from users and reviewers. Going from this fact, if he was endeed having problems with his set up some research should've been made because something abnormal was going on. Controls are really responsive and quiet intuitive in this game.

Motion controls, regardless of responsiveness and integration into the gameplay, were always going to divide people. I have some friends who when put in front of the Wii just cannot grasp the concept behind the pointer, or motion controls. No matter how many tutorials they go through, or how hard I try to teach them, they find the controls clumsy and overly difficult, so much so that the learning curve is too steep an incline for them to climb in order to enjoy the game.

I'm not really questioning the pros and cons of Skyward Sword's motion controls here, just that it was never going to be smooth sailing. There might be problems, there might not be. It's irrelevant as there was always going to be a group of people who just couldn't get them to work, and they'd express such disappointment in their reviews.

 

[gdt]

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn.

 

[butter_stick]

Just had a look at the thread for the first time in quite a while, and though I'm typing on my phone at work and don't have enough time to go into too much depth, I just want to say that I think different opinions are awesome.

And the Zelda cycle supposed meme is rubbish. My opinion of Twilight Princess the moment the credits started rolling on the Gamecube version is that it was lackluter and frightfully dull and uninspired. My subsequent second playthrough on the Wii, and enjoyment and disappointment with subsequent Zelda games, has done nothing to alter that opinion.

Opinions are awesome.

Your incorrect opinion on TP isn't awesome

 

[milkyjay20]

Just had a look at the thread for the first time in quite a while, and though I'm typing on my phone at work and don't have enough time to go into too much depth, I just want to say that I think different opinions are awesome.

And the Zelda cycle supposed meme is rubbish. My opinion of Twilight Princess the moment the credits started rolling on the Gamecube version is that it was lackluter and frightfully dull and uninspired. My subsequent second playthrough on the Wii, and enjoyment and disappointment with subsequent Zelda games, has done nothing to alter that opinion.

Opinions are awesome.

we should start a TP offense force

 

[Bernbaum]

Gamewho?

 

[baekshi]

7.5? preorder canceled.

 

[walking fiend]

Motion controls, regardless of responsiveness and integration into the gameplay, were always going to divide people. I have some friends who when put in front of the Wii just cannot grasp the concept behind the pointer, or motion controls. No matter how many tutorials they go through, or how hard I try to teach them, they find the controls clumsy and overly difficult, so much so that the learning curve is too steep an incline for them to climb in order to enjoy the game.

I'm not really questioning the pros and cons of Skyward Sword's motion controls here, just that it was never going to be smooth sailing. There might be problems, there might not be. It's irrelevant as there was always going to be a group of people who just couldn't get them to work, and they'd express such disappointment in their reviews.

He's a reviewer, not your random dude; he has reviewed a lot of other Wii games before as well. His incapability to play motion controlled games just appeared while playing SS?

There's simply no way in defending him saying 'controls were broken and I had to fight them, cause IR sucks'. I

 

[linko9]

I had to turn off the bombcast as they were talking about Zelda.

I just don't get the inconsistency in the gaming press regarding zelda and other games.

Secondly, you rate opinions by their reasonableness. Some opinions are so unreasonable they're not even worth listening to.

Not all opinions are created equally.

Yup, had to skip that portion of the bombcast as well. Unfortunately, they started off with a hugeass spoiler with pretty much no warning

 

[Cheech]

IMO, the Gamespot review isn't suspect, what IS suspect are the perfect scores for this game. With Wii U around the corner, who really wants to get on Nintendo's bad side?

After the turgid thud that Twilight Princess landed with in my house, I'm inclined to hold off on this one.

That said, I'm also not sure why Zelda fans are getting so worked up. Unless you're a mouthbreather more interested in OMG GOTY HYPE then your personal entertainment, what is the big deal? The mysteries of life!

 

[Nessus]

Complaining about a 7.5 from GS seems kind of trivial when you see the same game also has an Edge 10. Not to say that GS is irrelevant - but rather what that says about the game itself.

To me it says Nintendo took a risk. Maybe not as big a risk as some people would have liked, but it's something.

Polarizing art is usually the most interesting art.

To me, from everything I've read, I'm most disappointed to hear that the floating islands are pretty bare. It's hard for me to understand how Nintendo could screw that part up, since that was the single most enjoyable thing from Wind Waker, exploring all the islands, not knowing what you were going to find.

 

[EatChildren]

He's a reviewer, not your random dude; he has reviewed a lot of other Wii games before as well. His incapability just appeared while playing SS?

There's simply no way in defending him saying 'controls were broken and I had to find them, cause IR sucks'. I

I'm not defending him. I'm just saying that people complaining about motion controls in a motion control heavy game was destined to happen.

 

[walking fiend]

IMO, the Gamespot review isn't suspect, what IS suspect are the perfect scores for this game. With Wii U around the corner, who really wants to get on Nintendo's bad side?

After the turgid thud that Twilight Princess landed with in my house, I'm inclined to hold off on this one.

That said, I'm also not sure why Zelda fans are getting so worked up. Unless you're a mouthbreather more interested in OMG GOTY HYPE then your personal entertainment, what is the big deal? The mysteries of life!

I tell you what's suspect, that you are trying to troll.

I have played the game demo, would you please tell me how the control is broken?

I'm not defending him. I'm just saying that people complaining about motion controls in a motion control heavy game was destined to happen.

Yes, totally.

I once said, actually think this is the 4th time, that regardless of the validity of the review, even if it was because they were biased toward motion control from the beginning; Skyward Sword isn't a game to suddenly convert those who don't like sub-HD controls and analog for doing everything

 

[Shurs]

Ok, I've only read the 1st 2 paragraphs and this is the most fucking spoilerrific review I've ever read. And it's obvious its on purpose. What an incredible lack of professionalism. It's pretty much outlining every step of the fucking game with specific names, places, objectives, etc. Why? It serves the reader absolutely no purpose and the point can be made without giving specifics.

The only two characters mentioned in the first two paragraphs of the Gamespot review are Zelda and Link.

Oh, shit, should I have spoiler-tagged their names?

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Your incorrect opinion on TP isn't awesome

See what's awesome is that with these opinion things, I'm allowed one and you are allowed one, and as long as they are equally informed then they can be as different as possible yet equally valid. We don't have to go to war or start a vendetta or raise an army, we can just happily accept that we both have subjectively correct, different opinions, shake hands like the dignified gentlepeople we are, and go on our merry way.

Opinions are, one again, awesome.

 

[Yagharek]

He's a reviewer, not your random dude; he has reviewed a lot of other Wii games before as well. His incapability to play motion controlled games just appeared while playing SS?

There's simply no way in defending him saying 'controls were broken and I had to fight them, cause IR sucks'. I

To be fair, there arent that many motion+ games.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

See what's awesome is that with these opinion things, I'm allowed one and you are allowed one, and as long as they are equally informed then they can be as different as possible yet equally valid. We don't have to go to war or start a vendetta or raise an army, we can just happily accept that we both have subjectively correct, different opinions, shake hands like the dignified gentlemen we are, and go on our merry way.

Opinions are, one again, awesome.

I love your common sense. I really do.

 

[Rehynn]

I'm actually glad that some of these reviews are keeping my hype in check.

Worst case scenario: I'll find that the game is another decent entry in the series.
Best case scenario: I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[[Nintex]]

Well, the game is made by a part of the Zelda portable team after all. Sooner or later they'd fuck up the same things they've been messing up ever since Nintendo brought them on board.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Motion controls, regardless of responsiveness and integration into the gameplay, were always going to divide people. I have some friends who when put in front of the Wii just cannot grasp the concept behind the pointer, or motion controls. No matter how many tutorials they go through, or how hard I try to teach them, they find the controls clumsy and overly difficult, so much so that the learning curve is too steep an incline for them to climb in order to enjoy the game.

I'm not really questioning the pros and cons of Skyward Sword's motion controls here, just that it was never going to be smooth sailing. There might be problems, there might not be. It's irrelevant as there was always going to be a group of people who just couldn't get them to work, and they'd express such disappointment in their reviews.

I knew it was going to happen with someone. Motion controls have always seemed way more subjective than standard ones, so you're always going to get reviews where someone matter-of-factly states "this just plain doesn't work," which will always sit wrong with people who don't see any problem with them.

See: SSX Blur 1UP controversy on GAF, RE4 Wii Edition Eurogamer review, that one Trauma Center: SO review (1UP? maybe?), and probably a bunch more I can't remember.

 

[Salih]

you can't accept an opinion when it is a fact that TP is awesome. duh.

 

[butter_stick]

See what's awesome is that with these opinion things, I'm allowed one and you are allowed one, and as long as they are equally informed then they can be as different as possible yet equally valid. We don't have to go to war or start a vendetta or raise an army, we can just happily accept that we both have subjectively correct, different opinions, shake hands like the dignified gentlepeople we are, and go on our merry way.

Opinions are, one again, awesome.

Sure. Except when critisising Twilight Princess. I thought I made that clear.

 

[walking fiend]

To be fair, there arent that many motion+ games.

Yes, they are less troublesome and more accurate.

 

[thefro]

Gamespot is full of fat fucking reviewers who can't use motion controls anyway.

Considering all the outlets who gave the game perfect scores and Nintendo's excellent track record, I'd say the guy was probably either 1) lying down on a couch trying to play the game or 2) is just trolling for hits.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Gamespot is full of fat fucking reviewers who can't use motion controls anyway.

Considering all the outlets who gave the game perfect scores and Nintendo's excellent track record, I'd say the guy was probably either 1) lying down on a couch trying to play the game or 2) is just trolling for hits.

 

[walking fiend]

Gamespot is full of fat fucking reviewers who can't use motion controls anyway.

Considering all the outlets who gave the game perfect scores and Nintendo's excellent track record, I'd say the guy was probably either 1) lying down on a couch trying to play the game or 2) is just trolling for hits.

He had been trying to move the sword and bow using IR, I am telling you, this is 'really' what which has happened.

 

[cacildo]

Did the guy really said "IR sucks" in the 7.5 skyward sword review?

Because if he said... well, he just gave a reason for every fanboy to complain about the score.

 

[Jarmel]

Gamespot is full of fat fucking reviewers who can't use motion controls anyway.

Considering all the outlets who gave the game perfect scores and Nintendo's excellent track record, I'd say the guy was probably either 1) lying down on a couch trying to play the game or 2) is just trolling for hits.