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[Fahdis]

Home Consoles: PS
Portables/Hybrids: Nintendo
Consolation Price: Xbox

Goodbye Sega, Atari, Panasonic and Stadia, you died too early in the hands of all these haters.

 

[LordOcidax]

I do care about games, just not about games for 5yo kids.

A Nintendo is for kids joke…

 

[LordOcidax]

Home Consoles: PS
Portables/Hybrids: Nintendo
Consolation Price: Xbox

Goodbye Sega, Atari, Panasonic and Stadia, you died too early in the hands of all these haters.

Consoles in general: Nintendo

 

[Sooner]

Dreamcast deserved more than Microsoft's last two pitiful efforts.

Conversely the original Xbox deserved more

Not when they abandoned it a couple years in.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Not when they abandoned it a couple years in.

Maybe you're right

I got one in 2004, was pretty much dead a year later

 

[Woopah]

I don't know, what's your age?

It's completely valid opinion with completely reasonable points

Unlike jerking on Nintendo over some "record" that Nintendo holds for over 30 years - Nintendo "whole console brand, handheld included" was bestselling last year, 10 years ago or even before Playstation or Xbox came to market. Mostly due to handheld part (and switch is handheld too) where it had little competition for most of time.
And thus is my question - what exactly Nin fans celebrating here? Lost market share, questionable prospects, inability to attract big 3rd party games on platform or attract young adults players thoss they lost almost completely (0.1% attach rate is worse than kids game on playstation)?

I don't see it as a valid opinion though.

Nintendo (or any other publisher for that matter) aren't thinking "this game is specifically for people who are 5" or "this game is specifically for people who are 10". Publishers make games for a wide variety of ages.

 

[Felessan]

I don't see it as a valid opinion though.

Nintendo (or any other publisher for that matter) aren't thinking "this game is specifically for people who are 5" or "this game is specifically for people who are 10". Publishers make games for a wide variety of ages.

Of cause they are thinking. "Know your customer" is a basis for ~any business~. There is a primary target age for any game and it defines what and how will be presented. Like it's hard to miss to whom Call of Duty or Infinity Nikki is targets. Same for Mario. It doesn't mean they can't be played by others, but structure, story, even design of characters etc are tailored for specific age (and sometimes gender and territory).
And for Nintendo their core range is kids 5-10 yo. It's essentially business of toys and Nintendo behavior closely reflect how toys and not game business operates (toys are inelastic and age slowly so you can sell them full price for years).
You can be mentally infantile and play "just fine" game about plumber who save the princess in "another castle" due to "pure friendship". Or you can play it with own kids and ignore primitivity of almost everything as it's simplified to be accessible to kids. Doesn't make it young adult games those often offer complex stories with sex/violence, complex choice-based gameplay and math-heavy gameplay mechanics those are just too heavy for young auditory.
Same as cartoon like Tom and Jerry are targeted to the kids even though they can be quite sophisticated and included some motifs of more complex stuff (good cartoons have some stuff for parents too). Latter doesn't change their primary audience and that some limitations arise from it.

 

[daclynk]

Wow so we back to Nintendo is for kids. Really tells how old gaf majority ordinance are.

 

[Woopah]

Of cause they are thinking. "Know your customer" is a basis for ~any business~. There is a primary target age for any game and it defines what and how will be presented. Like it's hard to miss to whom Call of Duty or Infinity Nikki is targets. Same for Mario. It doesn't mean they can't be played by others, but structure, story, even design of characters etc are tailored for specific age (and sometimes gender and territory).
And for Nintendo their core range is kids 5-10 yo. It's essentially business of toys and Nintendo behavior closely reflect how toys and not game business operates (toys are inelastic and age slowly so you can sell them full price for years).
You can be mentally infantile and play "just fine" game about plumber who save the princess in "another castle" due to "pure friendship". Or you can play it with own kids and ignore primitivity of almost everything as it's simplified to be accessible to kids. Doesn't make it young adult games those often offer complex stories with sex/violence, complex choice-based gameplay and math-heavy gameplay mechanics those are just too heavy for young auditory.
Same as cartoon like Tom and Jerry are targeted to the kids even though they can be quite sophisticated and included some motifs of more complex stuff (good cartoons have some stuff for parents too). Latter doesn't change their primary audience and that some limitations arise from it.

The issue with that is that your age range is far too narrow. Its more like 5-50, not 5-10.

As you rightly said, Nintendo is primarily a toy/game company. But teenagers and adults play games too. If we look at hanafuda, a chess set, a pack of cards, pictonary etc. they don't have a narrow core age range.

It's the same with Nintendo's games. To give two examples:

When they worked on Smash Bros. Ultimate, a huge part of that game's core audience was Smash Bros. fans. Not just people who weren't even alive when Smash Bros. Brawl came out.

When developing Ring Fit Adventure, the core audience includes adults who want to be healthy. Not just 8 year olds looking to lose weight.

The adults who play these games aren't thinking "I'll only play a fighting game if it features sex and choice-based gameplay" or "I'll only play a fitness game it it features sex and a complex story". Because none of that is required in games that target adults as one of the core audiences.

When we look at Nintendo's marketing and their reports to investors, its very clear that they are targeting a wide age range, not a narrow one.

 

[Felessan]

The issue with that is that your age range is far too narrow. Its more like 5-50, not 5-10.

Every Nintendo fan like to sprout this bullshit.
There is no age group of 5-50 - 5-10 have different interests than 10-20 and 20+. Girls have different tastes than guys and asia aesthetics preferences different from west.
And games targeted at particular customer band, it can be stretched to appeal wider crowd with some expenses, but it still will have a core audience.

As you rightly said, Nintendo is primarily a toy/game company. But teenagers and adults play games too. If we look at hanafuda, a chess set, a pack of cards, pictonary etc. they don't have a narrow core age range.

You can make game for no one and it will be appealing to no one. Nintendo with it's "princess peach" clearly do not follow this route. And even those example do have primary age - usually teens but some more complex ones tends to be a little older. Games like Chess, Go or Preference are not suitable for 5yo and hardly suitable for 10yo besides some introductionary plays to learn these games - they are too complex for that age.
Just how delusional one should be that treat "princess in another castle" level of game to be all-age category game is beyond my understanding.

When they worked on Smash Bros. Ultimate, a huge part of that game's core audience was Smash Bros. fans. Not just people who weren't even alive when Smash Bros. Brawl came out.

Do you know what generational continuity means? It's not children who buys game, it's their parents. So making games that parents played and fond of is a good strategy to sell games for their children. And yes, Nintendo used this strategy for decades. A typical children toys selling strategy, see LEGO for example.

The adults who play these games aren't thinking "I'll only play a fighting game if it features sex and choice-based gameplay" or "I'll only play a fitness game it it features sex and a complex story". Because none of that is required in games that target adults as one of the core audiences.
When we look at Nintendo's marketing and their reports to investors, its very clear that they are targeting a wide age range, not a narrow one.

They can target whoever they want - Nin do have a wide range of games. They, besides kids stuff and some very occasional WII casual stuff and kids stuff, doesn't sell.
Xenoblade as an young adult game made by Nintendo has attach rate of 0.1%. Nobody cares about young adult games from/on Nintendo platform.

 

[Lord Malachite]

Hard to be surprised. The next oldest player still making hardware today is PlayStation and Nintendo has a thirteen year head start on them, including the 8 bit era where they had a 90% market share. Unless Nintendo just decides to fold up shop and get out of gaming or makes a series of ongoing business decisions that suddenly make no one want to buy Nontendo hardware or play Nintendo games, then they will almost certainly never lose their crown.

This likely is not a good thing. We are living in the era of both Arrogant Nintendo and Arrogant Sony. It's making gaming worse. I don't see anything coming down the pipeline for either of their first party to get me excited. I'm not even convinced about Metroid Prime 4 yet. Nintendo's Switch 2 hardware feels obscenely overpriced and underdelivered to me. But then, this is the first iteration, and experience tells us they'll make much more attractive versions of the Switch 2 over the next several years. This launch model is the sucker's version. Meanwhile, I'm playing lots on my PS5--but it's all third party. Not seeing anything from Sony's first party to get me hyped. As a very longtime PS gamer, it's pretty saddening.

I raise my glass to Nintendo for their accomplishment, but it feels so hollow and like its coming at a time when gaming is in a steep decline.

 

[ADiTAR]

Hard to be surprised. The next oldest player still making hardware today is PlayStation and Nintendo has a thirteen year head start on them, including the 8 bit era where they had a 90% market share. Unless Nintendo just decides to fold up shop and get out of gaming or makes a series of ongoing business decisions that suddenly make no one want to buy Nontendo hardware or play Nintendo games, then they will almost certainly never lose their crown.

This likely is not a good thing. We are living in the era of both Arrogant Nintendo and Arrogant Sony. It's making gaming worse. I don't see anything coming down the pipeline for either of their first party to get me excited. I'm not even convinced about Metroid Prime 4 yet. Nintendo's Switch 2 hardware feels obscenely overpriced and underdelivered to me. But then, this is the first iteration, and experience tells us they'll make much more attractive versions of the Switch 2 over the next several years. This launch model is the sucker's version. Meanwhile, I'm playing lots on my PS5--but it's all third party. Not seeing anything from Sony's first party to get me hyped. As a very longtime PS gamer, it's pretty saddening.

I raise my glass to Nintendo for their accomplishment, but it feels so hollow and like its coming at a time when gaming is in a steep decline.

You're talking as if it's Nintendo's fault for the decline the 4K60FPS bros are having.

If anything, Nintendo is giving devs an opportunity to go back to basics, care less about OMGFX and have an audience thirsty for fun experiences.

 

[Lord Malachite]

You're talking as if it's Nintendo's fault for the decline the 4K60FPS bros are having.

If anything, Nintendo is giving devs an opportunity to go back to basics, care less about OMGFX and have an audience thirsty for fun experiences.

How am I saying it's all Nintendo's fault? I'm saying the industry, as a whole, is in decline. That's not all Nintendo's doing. Some of it is their doing. But some of the blame falls with PlayStation and Xbox, and still more lies with publishers.

Nintendo not being in a race to have the best graphics in gaming doesn't suddenly turn the industry around or give them a free pass. It doesn't earn them condemnation either. I personally don't feel there is a lot to celebrate in the world of gaming lately. But I am hopeful that it will change for the better.

 

[mckmas8808]

Makes sense. The console manufacturers from when they started have long been out of the race and they have a decade+ head start of the one(s) still in it.

Are they counting handhelds in that "home console" record?

Edit for clarification.

Oh okay, that makes sense.

 

[MicTyson]

That's cool… I haven't bought anything Nintendo since the N64 and I sold that after only a few months having it.

Loved my NES and SNES when I was a kid though.

 

[Rivdoric]

Incoming.............

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Of cause they are thinking. "Know your customer" is a basis for ~any business~. There is a primary target age for any game and it defines what and how will be presented. Like it's hard to miss to whom Call of Duty or Infinity Nikki is targets. Same for Mario. It doesn't mean they can't be played by others, but structure, story, even design of characters etc are tailored for specific age (and sometimes gender and territory).
And for Nintendo their core range is kids 5-10 yo. It's essentially business of toys and Nintendo behavior closely reflect how toys and not game business operates (toys are inelastic and age slowly so you can sell them full price for years).
You can be mentally infantile and play "just fine" game about plumber who save the princess in "another castle" due to "pure friendship". Or you can play it with own kids and ignore primitivity of almost everything as it's simplified to be accessible to kids. Doesn't make it young adult games those often offer complex stories with sex/violence, complex choice-based gameplay and math-heavy gameplay mechanics those are just too heavy for young auditory.
Same as cartoon like Tom and Jerry are targeted to the kids even though they can be quite sophisticated and included some motifs of more complex stuff (good cartoons have some stuff for parents too). Latter doesn't change their primary audience and that some limitations arise from it.

 

[undeadhero]

That's cool… I haven't bought anything Nintendo since the N64 and I sold that after only a few months having it.

Loved my NES and SNES when I was a kid though.

I also like to comment on threads that don't interest me.

 

[Woopah]

Every Nintendo fan like to sprout this bullshit.
There is no age group of 5-50 - 5-10 have different interests than 10-20 and 20+. Girls have different tastes than guys and asia aesthetics preferences different from west.
And games targeted at particular customer band, it can be stretched to appeal wider crowd with some expenses, but it still will have a core audience.


You can make game for no one and it will be appealing to no one. Nintendo with it's "princess peach" clearly do not follow this route. And even those example do have primary age - usually teens but some more complex ones tends to be a little older. Games like Chess, Go or Preference are not suitable for 5yo and hardly suitable for 10yo besides some introductionary plays to learn these games - they are too complex for that age.
Just how delusional one should be that treat "princess in another castle" level of game to be all-age category game is beyond my understanding.

Schools have chess clubs (or ar least they did when I was growing up). Doesn't mean adults don't enjoy chess too.

Same with video games. A 13 year old can enjoy Smash Bros, Switch Sports or Mario Party just as much as a 23 or 33 year old can.

Animal Crossing New Horizons is the perfect example. There's no sex, violence or math-heavy gameplay, so in your definition it's a "princess in another castle" level of game for 5-10 year olds.

And yet in the real world it's a game with a very diverse audience, the core of which are in their 20s.

Do you know what generational continuity means? It's not children who buys game, it's their parents. So making games that parents played and fond of is a good strategy to sell games for their children. And yes, Nintendo used this strategy for decades. A typical children toys selling strategy, see LEGO for example.

I understand what it means, but you're missing a step. The people introduced to Nintendo as kids don't themselves become parents straight away.

There is a period in their teens/20s/30s where they are playing Nintendo software/hardware but haven't got kids yet. And then of course they can still buy games for themselves when they do have kids.

No everyone introduced to Nintendo as a kid does this, but then there are also people who are introduced to Nintendo as adults.

They can target whoever they want - Nin do have a wide range of games. They, besides kids stuff and some very occasional WII casual stuff and kids stuff, doesn't sell.

Xenoblade as an young adult game made by Nintendo has attach rate of 0.1%. Nobody cares about young adult games from/on Nintendo platform

I have no idea where you got 0.1% from and don't see how it's useful metric.

Either way Xenoblade is a niche JRPG, so it's not surprising that it hasn't sold as well as other franchises. They are way more young adults playing Mario, Zelda or Smash than young adults playing Xenoblade.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Every Nintendo fan like to sprout this bullshit.
There is no age group of 5-50 - 5-10 have different interests than 10-20 and 20+. Girls have different tastes than guys and asia aesthetics preferences different from west.
And games targeted at particular customer band, it can be stretched to appeal wider crowd with some expenses, but it still will have a core audience.


You can make game for no one and it will be appealing to no one. Nintendo with it's "princess peach" clearly do not follow this route. And even those example do have primary age - usually teens but some more complex ones tends to be a little older. Games like Chess, Go or Preference are not suitable for 5yo and hardly suitable for 10yo besides some introductionary plays to learn these games - they are too complex for that age.
Just how delusional one should be that treat "princess in another castle" level of game to be all-age category game is beyond my understanding.


Do you know what generational continuity means? It's not children who buys game, it's their parents. So making games that parents played and fond of is a good strategy to sell games for their children. And yes, Nintendo used this strategy for decades. A typical children toys selling strategy, see LEGO for example.


They can target whoever they want - Nin do have a wide range of games. They, besides kids stuff and some very occasional WII casual stuff and kids stuff, doesn't sell.
Xenoblade as an young adult game made by Nintendo has attach rate of 0.1%. Nobody cares about young adult games from/on Nintendo platform.