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[hosannainexcelsis]

These comments do not pay due respect to how subtly powerful the construction of the scenes in the episode are. Can you get the same information from reading a summary? Sure. But that's true of anything. Some esteemed members of this very community are known for using Wikipedia as a replacement for actually watching shows (won't name any names!). But that sells the visuals short.

The opening scene is a good example of something that cannot be conveyed in just a summary. The combination of the camera framing, the music build up, and the eventual zoom out leading to the white-out with the show logo is definitely a complete audio-visual experience. The scene where Waver learns about the Grail War in the library is another great scene which is much more compelling than any text summary can provide. As he learns more and gets more excited about it, there are faster cuts and more a more kinetic feel in both the direction and his monologue. As this happens the weather outside also gets increasingly stormy. There is a lot of atmosphere which uses the medium of film extremely well.

Honestly, I feel that part of the problem with Fate/Zero 1 is the voice acting. Kiritsugu, Kirei, and you can throw in Tokiomi as well, all have a relatively flat, emotionless, deliberately paced way of speaking that makes it easy to lose attention when they're just talking at each other for an extended length of time, especially when they start throwing around Grail War terminology that no one not already invested in the franchise cares about. Everything can blend together, and the characterization the episode attempts doesn't have as much of an impact as it should. I don't feel that Irisviel serves as enough of a humanizing force for Kiritsugu, and certainly Kirei is a cipher. I'm sure that's intentional, since we're supposed to see each of them through the lens of the other, and neither of them understand the motivations of the other, but it makes it difficult to get invested in their conflict. Once they start showing who they are through their actions and in how they play off of other Masters and Servants with different personalities, then they become more interesting to watch and listen to.

 

[kayos90]

Honestly, I feel that part of the problem with Fate/Zero 1 is the voice acting. Kiritsugu, Kirei, and you can throw in Tokiomi as well, all have a relatively flat, emotionless, deliberately paced way of speaking that makes it easy to lose attention when they're just talking at each other for an extended length of time, especially when they start throwing around Grail War terminology that no one not already invested in the franchise cares about. Everything can blend together, and the characterization the episode attempts doesn't have as much of an impact as it should. I don't feel that Irisviel serves as enough of a humanizing force for Kiritsugu, and certainly Kirei is a cipher. I'm sure that's intentional, since we're supposed to see each of them through the lens of the other, and neither of them understand the motivations of the other, but it makes it difficult to get invested in their conflict. Once they start showing who they are through their actions and in how they play off of other Masters and Servants with different personalities, then they become more interesting to watch and listen to.

Wait... I thought the voice acting was quite phenomenal imo and wasn't part of the problem at all. They delivered their lines quite well with emotion - or lack there of - and tone.

 

[duckroll]

The voice acting is actually the strongest point of Fate/Zero, and one of the main reasons why episode 1 caught me totally off guard. It's one of the few cases where I can close my eyes and recognize pretty much every single character by their voices alone. This also makes the next episode previews very... interesting.

 

[RurouniZel]

Honestly, some of the characters in the Fate canon are miscast in my opinion. I look at the character and hear a certain type of voice in my head, only to actually hear their voice in the show and think "What the fuck?" (Kirei being by far the biggest offender, Tokiomi as a runner up).

 

[kayos90]

The voice acting is actually the strongest point of Fate/Zero, and one of the main reasons why episode 1 caught me totally off guard. It's one of the few cases where I can close my eyes and recognize pretty much every single character by their voices alone. This also makes the next episode previews very... interesting.

Agreed. The voice acting is definitely one of the highlights of the show. The previews are great too. When Kiritsugu uses his first CS I was really shocked in the way he delivered that line. It was fantastic.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Wait... I thought the voice acting was quite phenomenal imo and wasn't part of the problem at all. They delivered their lines quite well with emotion - or lack there of - and tone.

Perhaps I misspoke. The voice acting isn't bad, in that it portrays who their characters are supposed to be well, but the characterization itself is so monochrome that the voices become monochrome and difficult to listen to. Even in my rewatch of the first season, after I had become invested in the situation and characters, I found my attention waning during the Kiritsugu and Kirei scenes in the first episode. I did find more respect for how the anime staff tried to set up the duality between them, but it still feels like self-important men babbling on about some silly war that we're not given reason to care about yet.

I certainly do appreciate the quality of the acting in later episodes.

Honestly, some of the characters in the Fate canon are miscast in my opinion. I look at the character and hear a certain type of voice in my head, only to actually hear their voice in the show and think "What the fuck?" (Kirei being by far the biggest offender, Tokiomi as a runner up).

Kirei does sound older than he looks.

 

[duckroll]

Kirei does sound older than he looks.

I think this is actually an issue I can agree with. There are two instances in the show where I feel the voice doesn't really match the design. One would be Kirei, and the other is the young Kiritsugu in episode 19. It feels somewhat off in terms of my expectations of what a person who looks like that would sound like. With Kirei I eventually just got used to it. With Kiritsugu it was a one off so it didn't continue to bother me.

 

[firehawk12]

Are you suggesting that there is only one "right" way to start a series? Because that would be insulting to the art of storytelling which has a long and varied history. There are many different ways to jump into a story, and there is no right or wrong way. Techniques are after all just techniques. It is how they are used which is important. You can attack the specifics of how a technique is applied, but you should never say that "look at this other totally different way!" as an argument.

I'm suggesting why people found that episode unsatisfying in the context of a first, introductory episodes to a television series. In that context, I do think there's a way to hook people into a mythology without ramming it down their throats and that it's perfectly fine for people to be entirely put off with being lectured at for 30 minutes.

 

[Narag]

Lupin III (1971) 7

So two more Osumi episodes (9,12) after this. I don't think I quite appreciated how much violence was in this for its time either although reading up it's apparently one of the reasons Osumi was ultimately let go. I'm curious how Takahata/Miyazaki approached the show now as it feels like this was just getting into a groove. Interesting to see the animators realized how bullets work after episode 5 too. The highlight of the episode, without a doubt, was the bonding at the end between Lupin and Goemon which was just fantastic.
Also Lupin's dad is an asshole.

If I still ran a 4:3 monitor, this would probably be my background now.

 

[duckroll]

I'm suggesting why people found that episode unsatisfying in the context of a first, introductory episodes to a television series. In that context, I do think there's a way to hook people into a mythology without ramming it down their throats and that it's perfectly fine for people to be entirely put off with being lectured at for 30 minutes.

Not all television shows are the same, and different shows go for different approaches. There's nothing wrong with someone being put off by a certain take on material they don't enjoy. There's also nothing wrong with those people who do like it defending it as a valid narrative form.

 

[cajunator]

Do people not like beginnings or something? I don't get how episode 1 could've been any more engaging for Fate/Zero other than through maybe flashbacks.

Agreed. I enjoyed the first episode and the way it set up the players of the war.

Acchi Kocchi 10:





I shouldn't be laughing, but that's hilarious! XD

Oh god. I know that feel bro.
But its too late for me.
I regressed into a moe catgirl.
No going back!

 

[firehawk12]

Not all television shows are the same, and different shows go for different approaches. There's nothing wrong with someone being put off by a certain take on material they don't enjoy. There's also nothing wrong with those people who do like it defending it as a valid narrative form.

The flip side is that there's nothing wrong with people who didn't like it. It's possible to "get it" and still think it fails.

 

[duckroll]

The flip side is that there's nothing wrong with people who didn't like it. It's possible to "get it" and still think it fails.

And it is possible to think that people who feel it fails are simply unable to appreciate it. Hence leading us into a deadlock with no way to progress further in the discussion.

 

[Makoto]

No love for main character?
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luias3gD7k1r45wgho4_250.gif[img]

He was great in his fights even when paired with Nikaidou.

[B]The soundtrack was also pretty nice for it[/B]. I wouldn't mind a season two...if it managed to stay on track and actually involve bento the whole time and not face a loss of direction for a bit.[/QUOTE]
I agree that the soundtrack was good. I found it to be the most refreshing part of the show, even the supermarket music.

 

[Ultimadrago]

Hyouka 8

Yeah, I guess you are.

Soooooo,

Spoiler

, why not still just ask Hongou? I don't think she lives halfway across the world.
What illness takes away your voice completely?

Overall, this hole still confuses me and makes this mystery (already without any weight) seem even more pointless, per usual.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

I wonder if people will do hyouka x persona fan arts...

 

[Ultimadrago]

I wonder if people will do hyouka x persona fan arts...

Ha, that did come to my mind.

Though I don't think I'd ever want

Spoiler

Eru presented as the main character...

 

[madp]

Persona invented tarot cards?

 

[dakkumauji]

Hyouka 08

The Fool awaits you, Strength. She wants her social link.
The whole tarot talk amused me just cause Eri was called the fool. She's gathering her own gang of social links here, with the Strength, Magician and Justice.
Besides what everyone else has been saying about

Spoiler

why not ask the writer

, the whole mystery really got me really into it. It was good build up and I actually wanted this to be explained within the episode, but I guess I expected too much out of it.

 

[Ultimadrago]

Persona invented tarot cards?

I thought they taught this in high school.

 

[cajunator]

Persona invented tarot cards?

No, Escaflowne did!

 

[dakkumauji]

I thought they taught this in high school.

Only if you went to the special summer session!

 

[Chet Rippo]

Persona invented tarot cards?

Yes.

 

[Femmeworth]

No, Escaflowne did!

The first game in the Persona series actually came out the same year that Escaflowne aired.

Edit: Apparently tarot cards weren't used until the second game.

 

[Narag]

No, Escaflowne did!

 

[Narag]

Lupin III (1971) 8

Well, that was something. I heard the Takahata/Miyazaki stuff takes a bit to come into its own as well but there was some serious contrast between this and the Osumi stuff. Overall it was more cartoony (aside from Goemon cutting fools up), Zenigata seemed more inept, the usual macguffin actually became more of a focus of the story, the background characters were much more prominent in how they were used as well as the sheer number of them, and it seemed to give way to something more story than character oriented.

Poor Jigen.

 

[duckroll]

The first game in the Persona series actually came out the same year that Escaflowne aired.

Edit: Apparently tarot cards weren't used until the second game.

Ogre Battle for life!

 

[RurouniZel]

Oh god. I know that feel bro.
But its too late for me.
I regressed into a moe catgirl.
No going back!

You're a cat girl now?

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Lupin III (1971) 8

Well, that was something. I heard the Takahata/Miyazaki stuff takes a bit to come into its own as well but there was some serious contrast between this and the Osumi stuff. Overall it was more cartoony (aside from Goemon cutting fools up), Zenigata seemed more inept, the usual macguffin actually became more of a focus of the story, the background characters were much more prominent in how they were used as well as the sheer number of them, and it seemed to give way to something more story than character oriented.

Poor Jigen.

You've pretty much nailed the contrast there. The Osumi episodes feel like a spy movie, while the Miyazaki/Takahata episodes feel like a Saturday morning cartoon heist show.

 

[Narag]

You're a cat girl now?

He became what he desired most.

 

[Chet Rippo]

You're a cat girl now?

That wrestles alligators.

 

[Femmeworth]

Ogre Battle for life!

Matsuno was ahead of the curve.

 

[Ultimadrago]

Lupin III (1971) 8

Poor Jigen.

Boy that Jigen has had tough times.

 

[Narag]

Boy that Jigen has had tough times.

In the span of an episode, he basically went from straight man to comic relief. It was surprising.

 

[Branduil]

Really? Didn't think it'd be so different.

Then again I've only done student-level film so whateverrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Well, obviously a script arranged scenes in a certain order, although that can be changed later. At the same time one of the first things they teach you in screenwriting classes is never to write in specific shots, i.e. don't write "closeup of Rider's face. Cut to wide shot of desert" or anything like that.

 

[cajunator]

Escaflowne is the best mech show with tarot cards though.
Fo sho.

 

[Chet Rippo]

Escaflowne is the best mech show with tarot cards though.
Fo sho.

And it's competing with...?

 

[Poyunch]

Oh boy I'm afraid to come in here because I'm an intruder but I need help identifying an anime. It might be an OVA but I remember a gif of it being posted here. It showed a dinosaur doing a bunch of flips and martial arts.

It looked hilarious. It might have been a green or blue or red T-Rex or something. Anything come to mind?

 

[cajunator]

And it's competing with...?

Ahaaaaaaaa
Nyaaaaaaaaa

 

[madp]

Ogre Battle for life!

No, we have to go farther back!

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Saint Seiya Omega 11

Well Yuna is pretty weak...oh well that meant time to shine for Kouga and Souma had an epic scene. Mindblowing

Spoiler

that they beat a saint higher ranked than them, that was cool.

.

 

[cajunator]

Oh boy I'm afraid to come in here because I'm an intruder but I need help identifying an anime. It might be an OVA but I remember a gif of it being posted here. It showed a dinosaur doing a bunch of flips and martial arts.

It looked hilarious. It might have been a green or blue or red T-Rex or something. Anything come to mind?

Dont be silly man. You are totally welcome here.

The show is You are Umasou by the way.

 

[Poyunch]

Dont be silly man. You are totally welcome here.
The show is You are Imasou by the way.

Haha thanks!

 

[firehawk12]

After today's episode, I'm actually excited to see where Tasogare Otome goes now. I'm hoping that this episode pays off in spades anyway.

 

[madp]

If you like anime and you like dinosaurs, there's also Arcade Gamer Fubuki:

 

[cajunator]

If you like anime and you like dinosaurs, there's also Arcade Gamer Fubuki:

Oh yes. Totally worth the purchase.

 

[Branduil]

I would also add to pizzaroll's excellent post that in many cases, some of the best anime films are the ones where the director is the one who writes the script and storyboards the film as well. Or if he doesn't write the entire screenplay on his own, at least being the one to create the concept and have a hand in writing the script. This ensures that his vision forms the entire foundation of the movie, both in how it is written, and how it is visually conveyed. This way, he himself understands all the decisions that resulted in the script being the way it is, and hence he can build the storyboard knowing exactly what sort of movie he wants to make.

Right. I think the most fundamental difference between animation and live-action is that animation is entirely artificial, visually. I guess that's an obvious statement, but what it means is you need to do a great job in the pre-production phases, because that's where everything onscreen is going to come from. It's not like film where you can experiment on-set and come up with great stuff organically. Not to say planning isn't important in film, obviously, just that in film storyboards are much more like loose guidelines rather than being the primary foundation for the film's visuals.

CG movies are closer to film in this regard because you can easily move the virtual camera around, although you still have to artificially construct everything on the set.

 

[Geneijin]

Dakara Boku-ha, H ga Dekinai PV (NSFW)

Already better than High School DxD.

 

[Femmeworth]

What did you think of Redline, Branduil? >

Dakara Boku-ha, H ga Dekinai PV (NSFW)

Already better than High School DxD.

Looks like trash as well.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Dakara Boku-ha, H ga Dekinai PV (NSFW)

Already better than High School DxD.

...Yay?