Star Wars: Force for Change - A Message from J.J. Abrams
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Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
This is true, at least. CGI itse'lf isn't some evil taboo, but when used incorrectly, too much, or to the exclusion of real/practical things and places, it becomes a pretty awful albatross.
Really hope JJ Abrams is going to go the Del Toro route of allowing the puppets and CG to work together to bring the creations to life. Del Toro's creatures for Hellboy 2 and Pan's Labyrinth were amazing, and the "real" feel to them are exactly what the Star Wars franchise needs to ground it back from the floaty/not quite there feel that the prequels had.
CG is not bad. The fact that no matter the time/money spent on CG the uncanny valley is always on the horizon is bad.
CG inherently offers better control over details. Whcih entails a never ending succession of small design choices.
From this puppet reveal, I can tell the practicality of making the puppet entails making stronger design choices earlier and with the notion those choices will be hard to change.
PeskyToaster
Member
I might get myself an entry in that contest. There's some great donation rewards but most of the tiers are out of my price range.
Which is why it was the least bad of the prequels. Phantom Menace was not a good movie but it was trying to be more than a CGI demo reel unlike 2 and 3.
The puppet looks cool, hopefully they get the right balance of CGI/practical.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
I can't stop laughing and smiling at this alien. I can't explain the joy its giving me right now. It's like a happiness drug. What's happening to me!?
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Looks like E.T. with a goatee.
cant tell if this is joking or not
Doctoglethorpe
Member
Definitely. I actually thought Del Toro would have been the perfect choice for director and still hope they bring him in on 8 or 9. He's not my favorite director but he's my favorite that would fit the franchise.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
True, but by showing the puppet in this way they're going out of their way to highlight the return of practical effects. At least that's what we can hope for, right?
That's it. The design is cool...really!
How long has it been since SW brought your inner child forward with just a cool thing?
TitusGroan
Banned
The prequels had extensive amounts of prosthetic make-up, sets, miniatures, animatronics, and practical effects mixed in with the CG. But you'll never be able to change the now established narrative that they were nothing but CG tech demos.
PeskyToaster
Member
This will definitely be a "Sony shot itself in the foot" meme if the movie turns out awful.
many places
Member
This is so cool. I'm praying this movie will be awesome.
Isn't that just it though... why do you think people have that idea? I find it pretty obvious. It's because CGI is easier to spot, particularly over ten years ago in the 1999-2005 era of the prequels. People can see lots of CGI, but the miniatures and other effects blend in.
CGI can be jarring and pull you out of a film at times. Puppets don't have that impact on me. Instead if being distracted by how fake it looks, it instantly inspires a sense of wonder in me... much the way seeing a real alien/creature might, I imagine.
Now Episode I puppet yoda, that's an example of a puppet where it WAS a little distracting, but mostly because it looked strange compared to EP V and VI yoda. Almost looked like a different character.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Damn, I was hoping that would be the film's subtitle. Would be great.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
You all act as if they couldn't replace that guy with CG in post. Happens all the time!
And how typical with the CG hate. There's been plenty of digital/CG work done in the past several years that people never realized were CG. It's up to the director to decide if a shot is good enough quality for them to final. Poor CG these days almost always comes down to budget/time and director/studio decisions. It also applies to practical effects. A bad looking shot is a bad looking shot regardless of whether you go practical or digital.
And how typical with the CG hate. There's been plenty of digital/CG work done in the past several years that people never realized were CG. It's up to the director to decide if a shot is good enough quality for them to final. Poor CG these days almost always comes down to budget/time and director/studio decisions. It also applies to practical effects. A bad looking shot is a bad looking shot regardless of whether you go practical or digital.
Wow. Slow down son.
I don't think anybody is saying that real sets/props --> good movie. People are excited to see a slightly more grounded approach. There's no causation or correlation between the one puppet creature and the film having a good script.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
The prequels had extensive amounts of prosthetic make-up, sets, miniatures, animatronics, and practical effects mixed in with the CG. But you'll never be able to change the now established narrative that they were nothing but CG tech demos.
Always amused me when someone bitched about "all the obvious CG" in a particular prequel scene that was primarily setup with miniatures.
JJ did a ton of the same thing on the Trek films, mixing practical effects and sets with digital effects. I expect the same approach.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
Probably gonna go in for $70, maybe $100, not sure yet. Gotta hold off until next month anyways so I to time to decide.
Anyone know if each tier gets the previous tier stuff? Isn't clear from what I could see. Like if I go 100 would I still get that 70-tier poster? I would actually prefer that more then the shirt.
Anyone know if each tier gets the previous tier stuff? Isn't clear from what I could see. Like if I go 100 would I still get that 70-tier poster? I would actually prefer that more then the shirt.
That puppet made me smile, its all good signs from JJ and the crew so far.
I couldn't help but laugh at this. I like your passion though.
I couldn't help but laugh at this. I like your passion though.
It's not computer graphics people bitch about, at the time the prequels used never seen before CG technics. It's the green screens whether CG or miniatures are used as backgrounds. and the stillness they instilled.
Origami Superman
Member
The puppet looks like something straight out of Labyrinth.
TeamCGI
...but only if it`s done like this:
the robots from Elysium are the superior example of CG done right.
Nerdkiller
Membeur
I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic. Regardless, I laughed.
Yup. Abrams saying that they'll be a greater focus on props and other physical stuff will probably be not much different than what the Prequels used. Just less obvious perhaps. Some examples for instance...
http://boards.theforce.net/threads/practical-effects-in-the-prequels-sets-pictures-models-etc.50017310/
It's just that the latter two suffered from poor cinematography due to the use of those new fangled digital cameras and as a result, it more than likely made the actual props look fake.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
So happy to see a puppet/animatronic.
Like seriously, that right there is fucking Star Wars. Omg.
Like seriously, that right there is fucking Star Wars. Omg.
raviolico
Member
true. but D9 showed creatures done right in CGI.
Davey Cakes
Member
Well done puppets don't take me out of a film or TV show, as obviously fake as they are. An animated object is more convincing than an animated...animation. These days, pretty much any form of CG does take me out of the experience unless it's seamlessly combined with practical effects.
Put me in the camp that's excited about puppets, shooting on location, etc.
Put me in the camp that's excited about puppets, shooting on location, etc.
moltonasty
Member
Well, so far I must say they seem to have the classic look down flawlessly. God, please don't let this movie suck.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
I think ILM knows what they're doing.
It's just whether they'll be afforded the schedule to do it right.
ILM hadn't developed their Imocap tech yet for the prequels. That allows them to do CG stuff on-set without green-screen. A bunch of their work post-prequels have had less greenscreen in general as well (i.e. Iron Man films, Pirates films, Star Trek films, Avengers), a lot of the digital envroinments ended up being extensions of sets.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
But let's be fair, JJ Abrams has a fetish for making things look like they were made in 1980 that Peter Jackson, for example, doesn't.
Except a bad shot *isn't* just a bad shot. Some things take people out of a movie more than others, and the "thereness" of a character is high on the list. It takes an immense amount of work to make a CG element feel physically present in a way that is obviously inherent to practical effects and puppets. Certainly there are exceptions--E1 Yoda puppet looks terrible and Davey Jones looks absolutely incredible--but the plain fact is that most people's brains are more forgiving of a puppety puppet than a CG character looking "slotted in".
Demoncarnotaur
Member
I think ILM knows what they're doing.
It's just whether they'll be afforded the schedule to do it right.
No doubt.
But having puppets is also great IMO, especially if they supplement them with CG. A good healthy mix will really help for great onscreen presence, as well as nailing that SW nostalgia.
raviolico
Member
yep, but i wonder how he feels to be such "open" and "public" about an ongoing project.
Guy seems to like the clouds wrapped tightly around his projects...i mean, look at the Super 8 marketing... i wonder if Disney forced him a bit to stray away from his previous approaches.
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
SW nostalgia? So what you mean is go back to a time when technology was limited.
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