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[Mr. Luchador]

Back to Ewok!

 

[Shrennin]

If that's true, and they manage to have every planet be as detailed as the expansion zones of WoW. Then that's absolutely insane, especially considering the amount of work they are putting into the npc's compared to WoW.

Yea, the question is if that's true. Darth Hater has no reason to lie, but every planet being as detailed and intricate as the next (while also being distinct from every other planet) is a huge feat to accomplish. The good news is that Hater mentioned that right as they logged into Ord Mantell they felt that they were unwelcomed there (as it is a war torn world and both Republic and Sith are not welcome). That's great for immersion, if you can get that feeling right as soon as the player logs in.

Also, BioWare has said that they realize that the majority of players will be force users at launch (so they are counting on it) but they believe that, once players find classes that fit their playstyle more, it will even out. That and each class looks appealing, even amidst the force user classes.

 

[Safe Bet]

Also, BioWare has said that they realize that the majority of players will be force users at launch (so they are counting on it) but they believe that, once players find classes that fit their playstyle more, it will even out. That and each class looks appealing, even amidst the force user classes.

Han > Luke

I don't understand how or why that was forgotten...

 

[BigAT]

Is there any indication yet what the healing class(es) will be, or if there will even be one?

 

[CzarTim]

Still no word on space? I'd gladly take half the number of planets for a solid space section.

Also, the light sabers are still too big.

I'll probably play bounty hunter for the beta, and then go smuggler for the real deal.

 

[Shrennin]

Han > Luke

I don't understand how or why that was forgotten...

Han is my favorite character in Star Wars but the prospect of playing a character that has the Force is probably appealing to many people. I don't expect there to be an over abundance of people playing force user classes (60 to 40 sounds about right, as was previously mentioned) and it'll even out more when people start to experiment. I plan to be a Smuggler or an Imperial Agent myself.

Is there any indication yet what the healing class(es) will be, or if there will even be one?

Every class has a healing aspect to them (as far as healing themselves) but there are healing versions of certain classes. It's heavily implied that the Smuggler, for instance, will have an advanced class that specializes in a type of support/healer class (think spices) as well as the Jedi Consular/Sith Inquisitor.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

I don't know where I read it but the logic of playing as a Jedi that could lose to a regular dude with a gun is that the Jedi you all see in the movies are the best Jedi the galaxy has ever seen.


Makes sense, which is why I'm rooting for BH (again.)

 

[Acosta]

Han > Luke

I don't understand how or why that was forgotten...

Luke is a terribad Jedi (in the movies).

Badass Sith with cool mask and quadruple lightsaber > anything else

 

[IcedTea]

What sucks about this is that people are either going to be force users, or SWG people who are not going to be force users on princible, to be different. It might seem like a good blend, but it isn't. They need classes so cool that the average guy will go 'Fuck Sith Warrior, I'm going Smuggler'. Not going to happen, though

With that said, I'm going Imperial Agent all the way.

I don't know. I've never touched SWG and I have my heart set on Imperial Agent (though I do really wanna check out the Inquisitor and BH too). Look at how much people love Han Solo and Boba Fett and whatnot. If Bioware does a good job a making the non force classes bad ass enough (which, as far as I can tell so far, they have) then I think it will be fine. It was a good move on their part to make the force classes able to heal/tank (assuming the Knight can tank anyways). I'd be a bit more worried if they were only capable of dps.

I've played quite a few MMO's where the "feel" was just wrong. Lotro had horrible skills response, AoC felt quirky when walking around, Aion felt sluggish and restricted.
These were all contenders to replace WoW but thus far none have managed.

I know exactly what you're talking about, and I am slightly worried because previous Bioware RPGs have felt really clunky. Dragon Age and ME2 were better in this regard though so I hope that they continue to improve.

Badass Sith with cool mask and quadruple lightsaber > anything else

Grievous? No thanks :lol

 

[Pinko Marx]

Fudge, wrong thread.

 

[Sullen]

Is there any indication yet what the healing class(es) will be, or if there will even be one?

Wrong kind of game, sorry. :lol

 

[barnone]

Still no word on space? I'd gladly take half the number of planets for a solid space section.

Also, the light sabers are still too big.

I'll probably play bounty hunter for the beta, and then go smuggler for the real deal.

As much as I want a space section like SWG's, I really want them to focus on the mechanics of the ground first. Like Fonds said on the previous page, they really need to focus on that "feel" and make everything feel satisfyingly responsive or the main course of the game - the ground gameplay - won't hold people.

 

[Kintaro]

Wrong kind of game, sorry. :lol

Is it? With advanced classes, there may be more dedicated roles. For example, the Sith Warrior looks like it can expand into tank or dual wield dps.

 

[CzarTim]

As much as I want a space section like SWG's, I really want them to focus on the mechanics of the ground first. Like Fonds said on the previous page, they really need to focus on that "feel" and make everything feel satisfyingly responsive or the main course of the game - the ground gameplay - won't hold people.

Yes, I expect far too much from a Star Wars game

 

[Safe Bet]

I really hope droid is a choice.

Computers play Computers best.

 

[Sullen]

Is it? With advanced classes, there may be more dedicated roles. For example, the Sith Warrior looks like it can expand into tank or dual wield dps.

Time will tell, I suppose. However, if I recall they've repeatedly said they want to avoid the three pillars, and I seriously hope they do. Even if they do dip into the three pillars, I hope none are requirements for any content in the game.

 

[Fonds]

Time will tell, I suppose. However, if I recall they've repeatedly said they want to avoid the three pillars, and I seriously hope they do. Even if they do dip into the three pillars, I hope none are requirements for any content in the game.

It's stated that the companion characters will be able to support you in endgame content (dungeons and raids). Be it through bypassing security with an R2 style unit or having a wookie tank the place.

This already is an indication of the three pillars being in place. What it also means though is you don't really need to have all the three in your group, as A.I can jump in to help. The sith warrior advanced class system gives further indication of the trinity being there.

You can "spec" into either a tank or pure DPS class as a Sith Warrior, being Juggernaut and Marauder.

I'm sure the Consular and Inquisitor will have their ranged dps - healspec advanced class system in place.

Not being able to heal, or be healed during raids will make it hard to create endgame content.
Besides that, a lot of people just love to be healers in MMO's. I'm pretty sure Bioware will awknowledge that.

 

[Shrennin]

BioWare will be releasing daily updates throughout E3 week on whatever is going to be revealed about TOR:

http://swtor.com/news/news-article/20100609_001-0

It looks like a ton of stuff is going to be revealed. Daniel Erickson once mentioned that he's excited to show everyone the new build for this E3 that it actually hurts him.

Suffice it to say, I am excite.

Also, we know that there is going to be a new cinematic trailer revealed at E3 as well (like the one from last E3). My guess is this time it has something to do with Havoc squad and the Republic than it does with the Sith. GTTV is showing a behind the scenes look at creating this new cinematic trailer tomorrow (during their pre-E3 show) although I don't expect to see the whole trailer then.

 

[Slightly Live]

New cinematic trailer? Sweet, the last E3 was really good.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Aion is dead, more or less. Unless their Aion 2.0 upgrade MASSIVELY changes things, Aion will continue to remain dead, because at its core it's a Korean grind-based MMO with not enough questing content to reach max level.

Everybody but Asian players hates that type of design.

Age of Conan was also horribly broken the last time I played it. There's nothing they can do to fix it because the problem is in the combat itself - unless they completely change the way combat works (combos and range and all that) it'll remain broken. Positional melee attacks with combos do NOT work in an MMO environment. It was a nice effort, but it just doesn't work.

It's wrong to say that Aion is dead, when it's kicking ass in Asia. It has over 3 million players the last time I checked.
AoC's combat is bad? Wauw. I only played it at launch but I thought it was fantastic and innovative. Everything I have heard about it, has been that it's supposed to have been massively improved. Maybe they will go F2P like LOTRO just did.

What sucks about this is that people are either going to be force users, or SWG people who are not going to be force users on princible, to be different. It might seem like a good blend, but it isn't. They need classes so cool that the average guy will go 'Fuck Sith Warrior, I'm going Smuggler'. Not going to happen, though

With that said, I'm going Imperial Agent all the way.

To be honest, I don't think that will be the biggest problem. Many SWG players are going to get a reality check, when they see that the game probably will end up being more WoW, than SWG. Not much themepark, more driven by static quests, than the open toybox concept, that SWG tried to be.
There is going to be some hardcore in-denial people, I'll tell you that.

SWG was about being a character, immersed in the Star Wars Universe. Ralph "Holocron" Koaster didn't want Jedis in it at all, as he thought the whole "every player can be an epic hero" was something that was better reserved for single player games. His idea was to make it so every player felt part of a community, and succeded as a community. Empty planets, no uber loot - Players made the cities, and the best weapons in the game, and bio-engineered pets, and speeders, and space-ships and droids, and armor. And buffs.

SWTOR seems to be more like WoW. Everyone is a hero. Right from lvl 1, you will be facerolling through multiple enemies, while having NPC looking at you as the "Savior of the galaxy". I think this will make many SWG players angry.

Most of the elements are in place. They've got a huge amount of fluff to feed off of (set in the SW universe, I mean it can't get better than that).
The classes look interesting.
The versatility in planets looks appealing.

All of that goodness can become redundant if the "feel" sucks though. What I'm talking about is the feel of simply clicking your skills, running around, the responsiveness of skills, the response to walking around and how your character reacts to the environment.

I've played quite a few MMO's where the "feel" was just wrong. Lotro had horrible skills response, AoC felt quirky when walking around, Aion felt sluggish and restricted.
These were all contenders to replace WoW but thus far none have managed.

You're talking about controls, movements and walking/running animations? I agree about LOTRO feeling disjointed in combat. As did Warhammer, and it really killed it.

I liked the controls, combat and everything surrounding it in AoC. Haven't tried Aion.

From what I've seen of SWTOR, the animations look rough. I wonder if players can move around physically as they attack. A trooper being chased, by a jedi slashing into his butt, will the Jedi Auto-follow, or can the player control, and slash and run in any direction at the same time, while bunny jumping?
I actually think SWTOR looks really rough in this area. It's like you can see it's motion capture.
WoW has the best animations, walking/running and smooth transistions I have seen. You have many animations that look bad, but still they all play fluidly, like a cartoon, and somehow it just works in it's favor(even the ugly animations) as the whole emote, and movement of characters is so over the top.

SWTOR looks much more squishy from what I've seen, but I hope the feel will be "right" too

If that's true, and they manage to have every planet be as detailed as the expansion zones of WoW. Then that's absolutely insane, especially considering the amount of work they are putting into the npc's compared to WoW.

Question is, how much effort they are putting into the world. Most of SWG's planets where just a plain generated landmass.
WoW was really really tightly developed I feel. You could see that every stone and tree was placed by the designers.. not somer andom generator.

Though if the landmass is so extreme and there is so many planets, then it's a given that there will be barren wastelands of npcs and enemies around.. But that can be cool too.

I don't know where I read it but the logic of playing as a Jedi that could lose to a regular dude with a gun is that the Jedi you all see in the movies are the best Jedi the galaxy has ever seen.


Makes sense, which is why I'm rooting for BH (again.)

Yes, this is true, and it's something everyone should remember.




But seriously. Some SW fans need to step down from the pedestal and realise that game logic will in some areas conflict with story continuity and lore. Unless gameplay must be compromised to destruction.

 

[Freyjadour]

New cinematic trailer? Sweet, the last E3 was really good.

Bleh in my opinion. As soon as it was announced as an MMO, my mindset on what I wanted to see prior to release changed completely. Cinematic trailers galore just aren't on that list.

I haven't really kept up with this though, Bioware's videos bore the hell out of me. I hate the "90% Neckbeard Developer, 10% extremely short/cropped gameplay" video format.

I also have an extremely negative outlook on TOR, but I'd love to be surprised.

 

[Shrennin]

I wonder if players can move around physically as they attack.

This has been confirmed. And I wouldn't worry about randomly generated planets either - BioWare has talked about how every thing they add to a planet has a story (if you see a war torn city, there will be a story behind it that the player may never even get to experience but it's there so the player can feel like there's history - if you see broken down walls, anything that is unique to the planet itself, there is supposedly going to be history behind the placement of everything - at least anything out of the ordinary.).

DarthHater even mentioned that as soon as they logged onto Ord Mantell (when they played a demo of TOR) they felt like their character was not welcome there - it didn't take talking to NPCs to see that, it was the environment and the way the NPCs reacted to the player as soon as they logged on.

Korriban, for instance, is a planet that is supposedly going to feel like the Empire is overshadowing the entire planet. The starter area for Korriban is a city that has the Empire casting a shadow over the entire place. They seem to be very particular about how they go about designing planets.

For more information regarding BioWare's planet philosophy, here's a blog by them:

http://swtor.com/news/blog/20100514_001

While I do like the cinematic trailer that was put out last E3, I do prefer actual gameplay information and videos - this E3 promises both a new cinematic trailer and gameplay information plus videos according to what has been said by BioWare so far. This may be the last E3 before TOR releases so I expect a whole bunch of new information to be released at this E3 in particular and hopefully it won't be something the public has to wait a month or two to see.

 

[TimeKillr]

It's wrong to say that Aion is dead, when it's kicking ass in Asia. It has over 3 million players the last time I checked.
AoC's combat is bad? Wauw. I only played it at launch but I thought it was fantastic and innovative. Everything I have heard about it, has been that it's supposed to have been massively improved. Maybe they will go F2P like LOTRO just did.

Aion is dead in North America, obviously not Asia, where it's a wildly different market with different demands for MMOs.

And AoC's combat is bad. PvE, it's fine, but its PvP is completely broken - miss an attack due to positioning and BAM, your combo's dead in the water. Too bad, finishing it was the way you were buffing yourself.. oops.



Seriously. PvE is okay since mobs aren't player who are running all over the place like idiots, but PvP is absolutely horrible.

 

[Speculator]

New article on gamespot:

http://e3.gamespot.com/story/626507...quisitor-and-sith-warrior?tag=topslot;thumb;2

new images:

 

[Shrennin]

Yep, along with two new playable races: Chiss and Twi'lek.

For people not familiar with the Chiss, that is the race of a certain character named Admiral Thrawn.

Also, the new CGI trailer tease on TOR seemed epic - looks like it's going to explain how Darth Malgus got his respirator.

 

[gillty]

SWTOR will the the greatest SW online RPG, not the greatest SW MMO. Personally SWTOR is shaping up to be the exact polar opposite of what I like in a MMO the sandbox, this is why SWG had so much potential in its first incarnation. I do like the Bioware RPG formula, so I'll be playing in spurts only for when the story is furthered in patches.

I seriously hope this is F2P or some other alternative model, I have too many other true MMOs with monthly fees that I try to balance month-to-month.

 

[Shrennin]

SWTOR will the the greatest SW online RPG, not the greatest SW MMO.

I think you're making a pretty big assumption, but we'll see. And I have played Galaxies and considered it the best MMO I have ever played (so far). That's with playing the CoX games and WoW (along with the Beta of other MMOs).

 

[HarryDemeanor]

The game just keeps looking better. Really can't wait for that new trailer during E3.

 

[BattleMonkey]

The chiss being playable makes no sense. Even in the "modern" star wars timeline they were isolated in the unknown regions that most people have never seen and their technology was inferior to the rest of the galaxy for the most part.

Thanks for more retconning Bioware!

 

[Shrennin]

The chiss being playable makes no sense. Even in the "modern" star wars timeline they were isolated in the unknown regions that most people have never seen and their technology was inferior to the rest of the galaxy for the most part.

Thanks for more retconning Bioware!

Was there any mentioning of their rarity in The Old Republic? Perhaps something happened to them between the Old Republic era and the "modern" era?

With that said, if BioWare was allowed to retcon something like that, it was with LucasArts' blessing.

I just know that part of the reason BioWare chose the Old Republic period in the first place was because of how little was written about it. A lot can happen between the era they chose and the era in which the movies took place.

I know there was some stuff that Erickson had to turn down because it didn't fit the Star Wars canon - some writers tried to put in some time traveling quests but Erickson ultimately had to deny those type of quests because time travel wasn't apart of Star Wars.

 

[Stahsky]

So uh, are there vehicles and space flight and stuff?

 

[BattleMonkey]

Was there any mentioning of their rarity in The Old Republic? Perhaps something happened to them between the Old Republic era and the "modern" era?

With that said, if BioWare was allowed to retcon something like that, it was with LucasArts' blessing.

I just know that part of the reason BioWare chose the Old Republic period in the first place was because of how little was written about it. A lot can happen between the era they chose and the era in which the movies took place.

The video games have always been given more leeway to do whatever they want. The most story line contradictions have come from the games more so than any other source as in large part they do not work with the continuity editors who do all the novels, comics, etc. They basically do what they want as it's a video game and it's not treated the same by lucasarts for the most part. This just ends up with everyone else scrambling to try to fix these things or write something to explain. They want to use the Chiss LA is not going to stop them, they had nothing to do with their creation. They have to get permission for things, but as been said by editors of the books/comics, they are held to a different regard, though they still can't do just anything and get away with it.... still has to be approved, they just have a more freedom.

For example when they first did KOTOR, they pretty much completely ignored everything Dark Horse created and basically redesigned the whole setting to match the look and technology of the classic trilogy. It's 3000 years in the past, yet they have all the same tech suddenly when 35-40 years prior they were backwards.

Being almost 3000 years in the past one could assume something about the Chiss went down that made them all leave the galaxy..... *shrug*. It's still pretty weak with what has been written about the Chiss already.

 

[Shrennin]

So uh, are there vehicles and space flight and stuff?

In the 3 page preview, it mentions that the Smuggler begins getting out of his Falcon like ship (and then it subsequently gets stolen) and the beginning of the Trooper starts out in a giant walker.

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: Yes, but the possibility of controlling space vehicles is unconfirmed (regular vehicles are more confirmed (but still not official) because of the Warrior video showing the Warrior on a speeder).

The video games have always been given more leeway to do whatever they want. The most story line contradictions have come from the games more so than any other source as in large part they do not work with the continuity editors who do all the novels, comics, etc. They basically do what they want as it's a video game and it's not treated the same by lucasarts for the most part. This just ends up with everyone else scrambling to try to fix these things or write something to explain. They want to use the Chiss LA is not going to stop them, they had nothing to do with their creation. They have to get permission for things, but as been said by editors of the books/comics, they are held to a different regard, though they still can't do just anything and get away with it.... still has to be approved, they just have a more freedom.

For example when they first did KOTOR, they pretty much completely ignored everything Dark Horse created and basically redesigned the whole setting to match the look and technology of the classic trilogy. It's 3000 years in the past, yet they have all the same tech suddenly when 35-40 years prior they were backwards.

Being almost 3000 years in the past one could assume something about the Chiss went down that made them all leave the galaxy..... *shrug*. It's still pretty weak with what has been written about the Chiss already.

I definitely agree about the technology inconsistency between the two eras but the Chiss issue definitely isn't the most jarring to me considering how far apart the two eras are.

And despite some retcons that BioWare's KotOR game made, the actual game was awesome with a story that (I believe) rivaled the original trilogy. Of course, I'm not too much of a die hard EU fan and as long as the continuity between TOR and BioWare's own games make sense then I'll be okay with it. I'm okay with believing that the TOR games are BioWare's own version of Star Wars.

The biggest problem I have with the TOR games in general is how they don't seem to want to go their own way and how they keep referencing the OT. This is why I believe the technological issue between the two eras was created - BioWare essentially created their own version of the OT.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Vehicles will probably be to be the "mounts" of the game. Space vessels are unknown as they might be just travel station type things like in the original SWG and like ships in WoW.

Thing also that it being a MMO shits not going to be all that realistic in a storyline sense in many areas. It's like Star Wars Galaxies where you had tons of aliens running around as Imperials.

 

[Stahsky]

I don't know much of anything about this game, sadly. It looks great, too. I never really enjoyed any other MMO besides WoW due to how great the gameplay worked in it. I hope this plays well too.

 

[water_wendi]

ive got no problems with any of these "retcons" between the two eras. Things change over thousands of years so i dont really see it as a big deal.

 

[Safe Bet]

..some writers tried to put in some time traveling quests but Erickson ultimately had to deny those type of quests because time travel wasn't apart of Star Wars.

OMG!

THANK YOU!!!

I fucking hate Time Travel.

With time travel your basically talking about the power of god, and I have yet to see a writer smart enough to handle it properly.

 

[Darklord]

The chiss being playable makes no sense. Even in the "modern" star wars timeline they were isolated in the unknown regions that most people have never seen and their technology was inferior to the rest of the galaxy for the most part.

Thanks for more retconning Bioware!

You realize the entire Kotor game series is a massive retcon of the original Old Republic stuff, right?

I know there was some stuff that Erickson had to turn down because it didn't fit the Star Wars canon - some writers tried to put in some time traveling quests but Erickson ultimately had to deny those type of quests because time travel wasn't apart of Star Wars.

Good. This isn't Star Trek.

 

[Lafiel]

ive got no problems with any of these "retcons" between the two eras. Things change over thousands of years so i dont really see it as a big deal.

In a MMO i especially don't care for retcons. Especially if staying true to the lore is determent to the gameplay.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

SWTOR will the the greatest SW online RPG, not the greatest SW MMO. Personally SWTOR is shaping up to be the exact polar opposite of what I like in a MMO the sandbox, this is why SWG had so much potential in its first incarnation. I do like the Bioware RPG formula, so I'll be playing in spurts only for when the story is furthered in patches.

I seriously hope this is F2P or some other alternative model, I have too many other true MMOs with monthly fees that I try to balance month-to-month.

I agree with you.

But it won't be F2P, because it's Star Wars, and they can make it sing in the marketing good enough to at least doubt people.


Also even if EA would go along with it, don't forget Lucas Arts.

nvm.. I'm going to make a thread about LA.

 

[Fonds]

In the article on gamespot, the thing that struck me most was the variety in gameplay among classes.

Reading how the Bounty Hunter has to "vent steam" to keep his/her suit cool to use skills was awesome.
Each class depending on varying "mechanics" is a nice alternative take on the mana/rage/energy system most MMO's use these days.

It might not be a big difference because in the end, they all function the same.
Fluff-wise though, it's great that Bioware is concidering these various ways of what a character pays for using skills.

Just look at those vents on the bounty hunter in that gamespot interview... awesome.

 

[CzarTim]

The real reason they chose the Chiss: Avatar.

 

[Chris_C]

I'm excited for this, but I read the thread title as:

Star Wars Republic Commando Beta.

Disappointmenton.

 

[DieH@rd]

Yep, along with two new playable races: Chiss and Twi'lek.

FUUUUUUUUUUCK YES.

 

[BattleMonkey]

The new Jedi Council video on the official site is cool, as it goes back and reveals some stuff about the original KOTOR and how it relates to stuff going on in this MMO.
http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20100611_001

You realize the entire Kotor game series is a massive retcon of the original Old Republic stuff, right?

No, KOTOR takes place 40 years after the Tales of Jedi material. Bioware when they originally made KOTOR decided that the Tales stuff was just too different looking so they changed the art direction and many other aspects to make the setting more familiar to the general public.

They actually have wrote it off as that the period between Tales and KOTOR was a galactic renaissance in large part due to the massive wars causing many advances from the Great Sith War and the following Mandalorian War where technology thrived and many things changed as to explain why suddenly they had blasters and such. Also KOTOR has lot of it's in game background which references the events of the Tales series. The KOTOR comics also bridged various elements.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Look at those boobs. Female Twi'lek gonna be my first character for sure

 

[Nidain]

Someone know how pvp will be? Full pvp a la guildwars, pvp wow style or old EQ style with pvp and pve servers?

 

[SuperAndroid17]

wow the art has certainly changed from the really early stages

 

[water_wendi]

I know there was some stuff that Erickson had to turn down because it didn't fit the Star Wars canon - some writers tried to put in some time traveling quests but Erickson ultimately had to deny those type of quests because time travel wasn't apart of Star Wars.

Wow. Reminds me of that one Star Wars novel that most people complained about where its about an interdimensional entity or something :lol Star Wars and hard sci-fi dont really mix well.

im sure if the quests were good they can be retooled. Why have time travel in SW when you can achieve similar stuff via Force cave-type experiences and keep things in line with the setting?

 

[JayDubya]

There's some great Star Wars lore races that went extinct before the time of the films that would be ideal for something like this...

But having a single Chiss show up at this point in the chronology is retarded, let alone lots and lots of them.

Zahn's stuff should be in a higher tier of canon than Lucas's stuff. /bow