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[BattleMonkey]

I know, atleast on the Sith side, that I will be heavy into the PVE raid side of things. We won't be crazy hardcore on the raiding side, but we will be into the raiding scene as well as questing and all that good stuff. Hopefully both the Empire GAF and Republic GAF can coexist and do some cool in-game stuff ;-)

I know I will be much more alt happy in this game than any other MMO, so I will be jumping on both sides. Everything is telling me to be a Bounty Hunter but I'm afraid it's going to be the overplayed class since everyone wants to be the Fett.

 

[CzarTim]

I'm surprised how few Troopers we have on the Republic side. I expected it to equal Councilor.

 

[Derwind]

^There'll be more troopers in time, if not, I'm always up for creating an alt character in case another class is ever required in endgame content.

I mean I'm pretty sure I'll be playing through most(if not all) the class stories in the game.

 

[Emitan]

I'm surprised how few Troopers we have on the Republic side. I expected it to equal Councilor.

I'm either going to be a Trooper or a Knight, so no worries.

 

[CzarTim]

It's not really a problem. Each class has the option of playing two roles. I was just surprised.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

So it looks as if Bioware/EA has it set up to where the guild site stuff will be all hosted on their servers. I do like having that built in, makes it a lot easier to run things.

As stated earlier in the thread, by the time this comes out, I will be done with school working full-time. It may be a bit early to start setting these things, but I am thinking of having raids be sunday-thursday 7-10pm central.

I like this schedule because it allows people to have a life on Fridays and Saturdays while allowing us the required time to get through content.

 

[Qwomo]

I figure this is as good a place as any to ask, since Bioware forums need be avoided at all costs now:

Question A: Has there ever been mention of a third faction? Even just a murmer? Has a dev ever fielded a question regarding such a thing? Nothing gets my boner flowing like a third, gray faction in games like this.

Question B: What's the difference between Allegiance and Faction? Faction is Jedi/Sith, Allegiance is Republic/Empire, yes? Are they kept separate for a deliberate reason; that is, can I be a Sith Republican or an Imperial Jedi?

 

[The_Inquisitor]

I figure this is as good a place as any to ask, since Bioware forums need be avoided at all costs now:

Question A: Has there ever been mention of a third faction? Even just a murmer? Has a dev ever fielded a question regarding such a thing? Nothing gets my boner flowing like a third, gray faction in games like this.

Question B: What's the difference between Allegiance and Faction? Faction is Jedi/Sith, Allegiance is Republic/Empire, yes? Are they kept separate for a deliberate reason; that is, can I be a Sith Republican or an Imperial Jedi?

I've heard nothing about a third faction.

Sith warrior seems to be combat jedi equivalent. Sith Inquisitor will be magic user = consular.

http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes

 

[CzarTim]

I figure this is as good a place as any to ask, since Bioware forums need be avoided at all costs now:

Question A: Has there ever been mention of a third faction? Even just a murmer? Has a dev ever fielded a question regarding such a thing? Nothing gets my boner flowing like a third, gray faction in games like this though.

Question B: What's the difference between Allegiance and Faction? Faction is Jedi/Sith, Allegiance is Republic/Empire, yes? Are they kept separate for a deliberate reason; that is, can I be a Sith Republican or an Imperial Jedi?

We'd have heard about a third faction by now.

Question B: Classes are tied to faction. You can be a "good" person on the Empire side and vice versa though.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

Man I am catching up on the holonet stuff. The lore they are putting into this is quite impressive. I suggest you guys go watch the videos/read comics if you haven't already.


Starting to get more hyped about this. Think we'll get a release date at E3?

 

[Derwind]

Sith Republican

All kidding aside, Sith won't be allowed to join the Republic over the Empire. Its not an option in the game.

 

[Gaston]

All kidding aside, Sith won't be allowed to join the Republic over the Empire. Its not an option in the game.

And I hope it never will become an option. Must like the Shaman + Paladin crossover that took place in WoW. Wasn't a fan of that.. but I guess it is the easy route to balance.

 

[Qwomo]

We'd have heard about a third faction by now.

Question B: Classes are tied to faction. You can be a "good" person on the Empire side and vice versa though.

I meant in terms of an post-release faction. But yeah, I guess they're probably just sticking with the two main ones. Which is a shame.

All kidding aside, Sith won't be allowed to join the Republic over the Empire. Its not an option in the game.

Yeah, I expected that to be the case. But I'm just confused as to why there's a distinction between Faction (Jedi/Sith) and Allegiance (Republic/Empire) on their website and wiki. Perhaps it's arbitrary.

 

[BattleMonkey]

All kidding aside, Sith won't be allowed to join the Republic over the Empire. Its not an option in the game.

The classes appear to be mirrors of each other anyways. It sounds like Warhammer again where the classes are different on each side, yet they are just mirrored with similar yet different abilities to make them unique.

 

[Door2Dawn]

Think we'll get a release date at E3?

guaranteed imo

 

[CzarTim]

guaranteed imo

At this point it's pretty ridiculous that they havent already. Game is shipping in less than 9 months.

 

[Mister Wilhelm]

I'm still really not sold on this game.

I just don't see what about it is going to be different or revolutionary.

I get the voice acting is a big deal, but I'm the kind of guy that reads really, really fast so with subtitles on I end up skipping a lot of stuff before it finishes.

 

[CzarTim]

I'm still really not sold on this game.

I just don't see what about it is going to be different or revolutionary.

I get the voice acting is a big deal, but I'm the kind of guy that reads really, really fast so with subtitles on I end up skipping a lot of stuff before it finishes.

Stealth brag post?

Other than the story, there isn't really anything "revolutionary". No body has tried to claim otherwise either.

It's going to be a Star Wars MMO, take it or leave it.

 

[Qwomo]

I'm still really not sold on this game.

I just don't see what about it is going to be different or revolutionary.

I get the voice acting is a big deal, but I'm the kind of guy that reads really, really fast so with subtitles on I end up skipping a lot of stuff before it finishes.

It is WoW except with Star Wars instead of Warcraft, and a few neat little ideas thrown in the mix.

It's not going to be the greatest or most successful MMO ever, but it's Star Wars, and I'll probably enjoy it for the few months I'll be subscribed to it.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

It is WoW except with Star Wars instead of Warcraft, and a few neat little ideas thrown in the mix.

It's not going to be the greatest or most successful MMO ever, but it's Star Wars, and I'll probably enjoy it for the few months I'll be subscribed to it.

It's completely fresh content. I use to be quite heavily into WoW but it just got stale enough to the point I completely deleted my toons for good.

I think people want some fresh content, and EA really has a lot of potential to make something great here. SW is a huge brand, much bigger than WAR or Conan. As everyone has already said, there is going to be a huge audience at launch.

The hope is that they can lasso people to stay. I really like how you don't have to get your own resources and can instead send your team. That's huge to me.

 

[Derwind]

I think its unique for how many elements its brought into the game.

There's a few different story arcs(I'm sure its used in other MMO's), quests tie into each other(again not uncommon), space combat(even if its not the best), companion characters(even if some may not like the idea), Crew Crafting/Micro-managing your companion characters(kind of unique), Moral Compass built into the game which has a direct effect on many aspects of your character(Seems unique to me), size scaled pretty large(possibly going to have nearly two dozen planets that have multiple huge zones & large instances in them), cover elements & ranged tanks(not exactly unique but sounds pretty fun if done right)...

The graphics aren't bad, the game play looks decent, I know the musics going to be good(not worried about this at all)....

Not many MMO games are SW based...

You can argue its not unique but what exactly are people looking for? A whole new genre?? If so, Rome wasn't built in a day....

And the fact that they brought all these usually very independent, non-unique gameplay elements(apparently) and stuffed it into one game is quite unique actually...

I don't know about everyone else but I think I'm just going to reserve my judgement until I've actually played the game.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I'm still really not sold on this game.

I just don't see what about it is going to be different or revolutionary.

I get the voice acting is a big deal, but I'm the kind of guy that reads really, really fast so with subtitles on I end up skipping a lot of stuff before it finishes.

No one really said it was going to be revolutionary, it does do some different things though from what we have seen, but features much of what is to be expected nowadays.

You can turn off subs if its going to cause you to miss the talking

Story and the franchise are the games big draws obviously to many.

 

[Plissken]

Honestly, if this is just WoW with a Star Wars skin, I will sub for a few months, hit level cap, and check out all the classes until I get bored and quit. If this turns out to be what Bioware is claiming (KotoR 3-9), and each class has unique quests and story lines from level 1 to end level, I will buy a lifetime subscription, as I am a very bad alt-aholic.

 

[CzarTim]

I've decided to sacrifice a goat every week I'm not in beta until release.

Hear that, Bioware? This goat milk is on your hands.

 

[Yasae]

At this point it's pretty ridiculous that they havent already. Game is shipping in less than 9 months.

Indeed, this is the only thing that's been bothering me with TOR. They've had years to demo the game and convince people to buy. Now it's time to get down to business. It all seems to be indicative of delays beyond what we've heard in reports.

I'm feeling good about the game regardless and will probably try it out for at least a couple months. I also don't mind some fetch quests or "Kill X amount of Y," but I won't stick around for long if that becomes the game's bread and butter.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Indeed, this is the only thing that's been bothering me with TOR. They've had years to demo the game and convince people to buy. Now it's time to get down to business. It all seems to be indicative of delays beyond what we've heard in reports.

I'm feeling good about the game regardless and will probably try it out for at least a couple months. I also don't mind some fetch quests or "Kill X amount of Y," but I won't stick around for long if that becomes the game's bread and butter.

Damn your avy keeps making me think you're HK-47.

 

[Emitan]

Damn your avy keeps making me think you're HK-47.

But he doesn't talk anything like HK-47, meatbag.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

But he doesn't talk anything like HK-47, meatbag.

I meant, HK-47, the poster.

 

[CzarTim]

http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110318

Friday Update

 

[Blackface]

It is WoW except with Star Wars instead of Warcraft, and a few neat little ideas thrown in the mix.

It's not going to be the greatest or most successful MMO ever, but it's Star Wars, and I'll probably enjoy it for the few months I'll be subscribed to it.

From what we know, as it stands, it has a lot o differences from WOW while still having some MMO staples. This is the MMO genre. The things you think "people copy from WoW" are staples that existed long before it. If you actually step back, World of Warcraft has not invented many of it's own concepts, but takes already existing ones and does them well (in most cases). Which is why I have been playing since launch. However, It's like saying MW2 copied shooting people in the head from BF2, no, it's an FPS, it's expected.

That said, it probably won't be the biggest MMO ever, and neither will WoW be from a player standpoint. It won't be the biggest MMO in terms of making money, where WoW is king. I do think, after seeing lots of footage someone I know shot at Pax, and talking to some people people who have played a good amount, it will be a hyper successful game, and one of the best the genre has ever seen. Easily the most technically advanced at this point.

 

[Qwomo]

From what we know, as it stands, it has a lot o differences from WOW while still having some MMO staples. This is the MMO genre. The things you think "people copy from WoW" are staples that existed long before it. If you actually step back, World of Warcraft has not invented many of it's own concepts, but takes already existing ones and does them well (in most cases). Which is why I have been playing since launch. However, It's like saying MW2 copied shooting people in the head from BF2, no, it's an FPS, it's expected.

The tropes, roles, and terminology have existed since time immemorial, yes, but Bioware isn't maintaining the status quo simply because. They aren't pushing DPS/tank/etc. roles because Everquest or Ultima did it, they're doing it because WoW does. There is no other reason. They are playing it deliberately safe with SWTOR, and to do that these days you must make an MMO like WoW in all fundamental aspects, particularly with regards to combat and group hierarchies.

EA (though probably not Bioware) is trying to create a WoW killer in SWTOR, and they know the only way that can happen is if they take WoW, doll it up, and slap a popular franchise on top.

That is what they're doing.

SWTOR is not like WoW incidentally or superficially, it is like WoW deliberately. And for good reason, too.

 

[CzarTim]

The tropes, roles, and terminology have existed since time immemorial, yes, but Bioware isn't maintaining the status quo simply because. They aren't pushing DPS/tank/etc. roles because Everquest or Ultima did it, they're doing it because WoW does. There is no other reason. They are playing it deliberately safe with SWTOR, and to do that these days you must make an MMO like WoW in all fundamental aspects, particularly with regards to combat and group hierarchies.

Oh ffs :lol

 

[BattleMonkey]

The tropes, roles, and terminology have existed since time immemorial, yes, but Bioware isn't maintaining the status quo simply because. They aren't pushing DPS/tank/etc. roles because Everquest or Ultima did it, they're doing it because WoW does. There is no other reason. They are playing it deliberately safe with SWTOR, and to do that these days you must make an MMO like WoW in all fundamental aspects, particularly with regards to combat and group hierarchies.

EA (though probably not Bioware) is trying to create a WoW killer in SWTOR, and they know the only way that can happen is if they take WoW, doll it up, and slap a popular franchise on top.

That is what they're doing.

SWTOR is not like WoW incidentally or superficially, it is like WoW deliberately. And for good reason, too.

Every mmo pretty much uses those mechanics because its the best way to do multiplayer role playing games. Even completey different styles of games like eve online, use the tank, dps, healer, etc tropes. Games that don't openly use these tropes still end up using them, but they set themselves apart with unique game systems and features.

 

[Qwomo]

Every mmo pretty much uses those mechanics because its the best way to do multiplayer role playing games. Even completey different styles of games like eve online, use the tank, dps, healer, etc tropes. Games that don't openly use these tropes still end up using them, but they set themselves apart with unique game systems and features.

Every MMO uses these mechanics, but every MMO needn't. And, really, like you said, plenty of MMOs differentiate themselves by utilizing the existing tropes in different ways with different features. But with SWTOR they're just taking those mechanics and doing nothing to change them. That's on purpose. They are purposely using the exact same rhetoric that WoW players use. And they don't need to do that, but they do it anyway. They want to rope in people who currently play (or formerly played) WoW.

Ultimately the blatant lack of originality is why a fair amount of people find SWTOR off-putting.

 

[CzarTim]

If you don't like it, feel free to leave. No amount of complaining will change the core gameplay mechanics. This game has been labeled as KOTOR 3-7, and it's no different than the first two other than the multiplayer component.

 

[Qwomo]

Yeah, I'm not complaining, little guy. I'm explaining.

If you don't like it, feel free to leave. No amount of complaining will change the core gameplay mechanics. This game has been labeled as KOTOR 3-7, and it's no different than the first two other than the multiplayer component.

Also, this is wrong. Practically no gameplay mechanics in SWTOR remain from the previous KOTOR iterations; everything down to the conversation system is different.

 

[CzarTim]

No, you're trolling. You haven't said a single thing that hasn't already been said countless times by countless people. And yet you ask for originality.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Every MMO uses these mechanics, but every MMO needn't. And, really, like you said, plenty of MMOs differentiate themselves by utilizing the existing tropes in different ways with different features. But with SWTOR they're just taking those mechanics and doing nothing to change them. That's on purpose. They are purposely using the exact same rhetoric that WoW players use. And they don't need to do that, but they do it anyway. They want to rope in people who currently play (or formerly played) WoW.

Ultimately the blatant lack of originality is why a fair amount of people find SWTOR off-putting.

Again you misunderstand. For group play mechanics, all mmos use the typical tropes. It is in other areas that games set themselves apart. Really for multiplayer group role playing, these class tropes are required.

The game does have unique features, but focus is on what isn't new and innovative because the game is the most hyped mmo to come along. Countless other mmos don't get grilled over this same crap because the attention just isn't there. Got a ton of old installed mmos on my desktop that all could have same critique tossed on them, but no one cared, no comparison articles in the press, etc.

 

[Qwomo]

Again you misunderstand. For group play mechanics, all mmos use the typical tropes. It is in other areas that games set themselves apart. Really for multiplayer group role playing, these class tropes are required.

The game does have unique features, but focus is on what isn't new and innovative because the game is the most hyped mmo to come along. Countless other mmos don't get grilled over this same crap because the attention just isn't there. Got a ton of old installed mmos on my desktop that all could have same critique tossed on them, but no one cared, no comparison articles in the press, etc.

Ultimately, yes, it becomes a matter of just accepting that "all MMOs do this," despite wanting to believe that is hardly an excuse.

So, in summary: A guy asked what set SWTOR apart, the general answer was "not much," and ripostes were lobbed consisting of "yes, but that's okay."

At the end of a day, some people don't think that's okay, including, it seems, the person who asked the question. In another genre, being so derivative is hardly encouraged or tolerated. I guess we'll wait and see how SWTOR turns out. It's certainly not taking any risks, that's for sure.

 

[CzarTim]

SWG took risks and failed. It's completely reasonable for Lucas to want a more traditional and reliable title to offer to fans. The fact that they are trusting a company that made arguably one of the best SW games of all times speaks loads towards it.

A game doesn't need to be original to be fun. If the content is fun, that will be enough.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Yeah, I'm not complaining, little guy. I'm explaining.

Also, this is wrong. Practically no gameplay mechanics in SWTOR remain from the previous KOTOR iterations; everything down to the conversation system is different.

But of course, since kotors combat system is completey incompatible with mmo play. They would need to put in alternate game rulesets for solo and group play.

They are keeping some elements though such as having unique npc characters that you can have relations with, morality system, the dialogue system, the continuing story and setting of knights of the old republic. There are then. New systems in the game that are unique of course, but again being a mmo will hinder the breadth of certain aspects.

 

[SpudBud]

I sent an app to the Republic guild. I really hope this comes out sooner rather then later.

It's not coming out before July right?

 

[CzarTim]

I sent an app to the Republic guild. I really hope this comes out sooner rather then later.

It's not coming out before July right?

Accepted, and probably not.

 

[Baller. PhD]

Ultimately, yes, it becomes a matter of just accepting that "all MMOs do this," despite wanting to believe that is hardly an excuse.

So, in summary: A guy asked what set SWTOR apart, the general answer was "not much," and ripostes were lobbed consisting of "yes, but that's okay."

At the end of a day, some people don't think that's okay, including, it seems, the person who asked the question. In another genre, being so derivative is hardly encouraged or tolerated. I guess we'll wait and see how SWTOR turns out. It's certainly not taking any risks, that's for sure.

Dude you don't know anything about this game. You just asked a bunch of questions that have been answered for months on the official forums, yet you try to bust in here and act like you know what BioWare is up to? GTFO with that nonsense.

 

[Qwomo]

Dude you don't know anything about this game. You just asked a bunch of questions that have been answered for months on the official forums, yet you try to bust in here and act like you know what BioWare is up to? GTFO with that nonsense.

I've been following this game far longer than you have, but thanks for the input.

 

[Baller. PhD]

I've been following this game far longer than you have, but thanks for the input.

Hmm...

I figure this is as good a place as any to ask, since Bioware forums need be avoided at all costs now:

Question A: Has there ever been mention of a third faction? Even just a murmer? Has a dev ever fielded a question regarding such a thing? Nothing gets my boner flowing like a third, gray faction in games like this.

Question B: What's the difference between Allegiance and Faction? Faction is Jedi/Sith, Allegiance is Republic/Empire, yes? Are they kept separate for a deliberate reason; that is, can I be a Sith Republican or an Imperial Jedi?

You trolling?

 

[Qwomo]

Hmm...



You trolling?

Nobody really seemed to have an adequate answer for the second question, and the first question was asking if the devs had ever fielded a question regarding a post-release third faction, which they surely have by now, as it's a common question from fans. I was curious if they had ever answered "yeah, maybe in a while," to such a question. I don't read every third-party Q&A out there.

Way to really stimulate and enliven an already-concluded discussion, though.

 

[CzarTim]

I've been following this game far longer than you have, but thanks for the input.

Wow, you are ridiculous. First person I've ever ignored on GAF.

 

[Qwomo]

Wow, you are ridiculous. First person I've ever ignored on GAF.

What a constructive post.

Btw, I just checked and it seems it was explicitly implied (if that's possible..) that there are 0 plans to ever include an additional faction. Probably more classes, though. Which seems strange, considering their emphasis on a third, gray avenue for conversation and storyline options. Though I guess technically those things don't go hand-in-hand. Bioware has always been about about extremes with an underdeveloped middling line.

 

[Blackface]

The tropes, roles, and terminology have existed since time immemorial, yes, but Bioware isn't maintaining the status quo simply because. They aren't pushing DPS/tank/etc. roles because Everquest or Ultima did it, they're doing it because WoW does. There is no other reason. They are playing it deliberately safe with SWTOR, and to do that these days you must make an MMO like WoW in all fundamental aspects, particularly with regards to combat and group hierarchies.

EA (though probably not Bioware) is trying to create a WoW killer in SWTOR, and they know the only way that can happen is if they take WoW, doll it up, and slap a popular franchise on top.

That is what they're doing.

SWTOR is not like WoW incidentally or superficially, it is like WoW deliberately. And for good reason, too.

I have a strange feeling you have not read, seen or even got to play SWTOR for the short bursts they allow.

SWTOR is going with a class based system because thats what people enjoy in an MMORPG. Do you really think they had a meeting, sat down, and said ok guys "lets just copy the fuck out of WoW". Of course not. They looked at what people enjoyed in an MMORPG and started building off that foundation. It just so happens, that 12 million people sure as fuck seem to love classes.

However, you seem to think they work in the same way as those in World of Warcraft do. They don't, at least not from the demo's at Pax, or any of the information given. Especially healing. At Pax, the smuggler was very much a passive healer, mixing damage with bacta shots, stacking effects to grant greater heals occasionally. World of Warcraft on the other hand goes the typical EQ route. Stand back, spam a couple heal buttons on your grid (since high-end healing is impossible in WoW without addons), and mix in a third and fourth healing option here and there. The GCD is short, and the button mashing is in full effect.

Now, I personally don't mind classes in an MMORPG, and I prefer it 10 fold over a system like whats in EVE online. Where it rewards you for time played, and the gap eventually becomes insurmountable. Even SWG's system, which I feel is the best ever, is still all about classes.

Why didn't you bother to list any of the differences between the two? We know very little about the game, but here are some differences we know about that seperates SWTOR for wow.

1. Capital Ships (guild halls)
2. Player ships (player housing)
3. guild/clan allegiances.
4. Main story arc
5. Cut scenes
6. Customizable armor
7. Separate crafting system
8. A section of the game dedicated to space combat.
9. Companion toons.
10. Advanced Class system
11. Smaller dungeon group size
12. Crew Skills

So basically almost everything talked about SWTOR so far is different then World of Warcraft, or takes the traditional approach and changes it significantly.

I just don't see why you think they are straight up ripping off WoW, but I guess if I had a lack of knowledge about what I was talking about, I may think that as well.