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[vicissitudes]

And sometimes you don't have the energy to storm and don't have a fresh templar available. I played a game the other day, and when scouting the front saw like 6 marines and 3 marauders. I teched to storm and started making HTs, and when he got to my base there were 2 thors in the mix. HT's and Immortals were a great choice(designed to kill marines and marauders, but coincidentally very good against thors too), storm the army and then feedback on the thors and medivacs when I ran out of energy. Sure, it was a very situational play, but it was a handy option available to me.

Unfortunately I still lost that game, the pathing was really bad on blistering sands and half my army decided to retreat into my main like I wanted while the other half decided to advance out of my natural towards my back door, taking the roundabout route and following his army into my base. So both halves got decimated unfortunately. But the point is, 100-150 or so damage on a couple of thors can mean the difference between winning a battle and losing it, and now that option is no longer available.

I never meant the change was useless, just that 1. feedback versus thor doesn't happen very often and 2. it's not as impactful as most other spells. So I mean...I don't see it as a big deal.

 

[Vaporak]

i see void rays in almost every diamond tvp i play

1) You are obviously exaggerating.
or
2) You are playing very bad Protoss. There is exactly 1 good voidray opener in PvT, and it's an all in push that can be beaten pretty easily by standard Terran openings. There's a reason Robo openers are standard in PvT. If they're not using Voidrays as an opener and instead transitioning to them they're also bad Protoss as Voidrays lose to vikings, badly, and are bad in straight up fights, just go kill the idiot.

 

[rsam87]

Like the patch overall as a protoss player.

Zerg now seems a lot more dangerous and I never really used voids much anymore anyway to maybe I'll start mixing them in with my army in PvP and see if it holds off collo.

I'm worried about increase of Thors meaning increase of repairing SCVs, they haven't addressed the attack priority for them yet.

 

[Yaweee]

1) You are obviously exaggerating.
or
2) You are playing very bad Protoss. There is exactly 1 good voidray opener in PvT, and it's an all in push that can be beaten pretty easily by standard Terran openings. There's a reason Robo openers are standard in PvT. If they're not using Voidrays as an opener and instead transitioning to them they're also bad Protoss as Voidrays lose to vikings, badly, and are bad in straight up fights, just go kill the idiot.

I do not think that Robo openers are the standard in PvT; all three tech paths are viable.

Void Rays can be an extremely powerful counter once you've pushed pack 3rax pressure with Gateway units.

 

[vicissitudes]

1) You are obviously exaggerating.
or
2) You are playing very bad Protoss. There is exactly 1 good voidray opener in PvT, and it's an all in push that can be beaten pretty easily by standard Terran openings. There's a reason Robo openers are standard in PvT. If they're not using Voidrays as an opener and instead transitioning to them they're also bad Protoss as Voidrays lose to vikings, badly, and are bad in straight up fights, just go kill the idiot.

Seriously, especially since every Terran worth a damn gets at least a small group of marines with stim which shut down void rays so badly.

 

[rsam87]

I do not think that Robo openers are the standard in PvT; all three tech paths are viable.

Void Rays can be an extremely powerful counter once you've pushed pack 3rax pressure with Gateway units.

Robo openers are most definitely the standard PvT

 

[pieatorium]

The buuf to VR initial damage might make pvp more interesting, VRs might actually be a decent counter to collosus (can get out a few before the collo numbers get too high) and they are more of a unit that can be part of a push than a gimmick. If stargate openings become more common then DT openings may also become more common etc etc.

 

[vicissitudes]

The buuf to VR initial damage might make pvp more interesting, VRs might actually be a decent counter to collosus (can get out a few before the collo numbers get too high) and they are more of a unit that can be part of a push than a gimmick. If stargate openings become more common then DT openings may also become more common etc etc.

While that would be nice, I also felt like Void Rays required more strategy because they were so useless without charge and so good with it that you really have to micro them properly in order to use them well. Now they might just serve as a more bread-and-butter unit that's thrown in there with the rest of the army.

 

[rsam87]

I'm thinking of using VRs against stalkers/sentries vs a 4 gate. Protoss early game is all forcefield play right now for me. Thinking maybe the VR can be a smaller version of the carrier rush in PvP

Also VR can still possibly harass vs miners? How much faster do they kill miners now.

 

[Yaweee]

The buuf to VR initial damage might make pvp more interesting, VRs might actually be a decent counter to collosus (can get out a few before the collo numbers get too high) and they are more of a unit that can be part of a push than a gimmick. If stargate openings become more common then DT openings may also become more common etc etc.

I agree on both points. I'd still like to see a reduction in Dark Shrine cost or build time, though.

 

[clav]

Love the patch notes. We'll see what happens in the actual games to see if I like them overall.

I would still like to see a nerf to PF (make it cost food or more expensive) and MULES with a cooldown timer.

 

[vicissitudes]

proceeding to 6 pool every terran, enjoy your supply depot requirement

:lol :lol I will definitely be doing this.

 

[Vaporak]

I do not think that Robo openers are the standard in PvT; all three tech paths are viable.

Void Rays can be an extremely powerful counter once you've pushed pack 3rax pressure with Gateway units.

You're joking right? Robo openers are standard because as soon as the Terran gets a starport you have to backtrack and go robo just in case he builds a bashee. Not to mention the fact that a 111 opener gets a starport about the same time you'd get a robo when that's your planned tech path. It's the same reason it's standard to get a zealot and then a stalker as your first units out of your gateway, because you're blind countering against the possible opening aggression a terran can do (reapers or 2 maraduer 1 marine attacks).

Also, people, please don't get your hopes up over the voidray uncharged damage. It's higher than it was but it's still shitty and in no way makes voidrays a good investment in a straight up fight. 2 marines do more damage than the uncharged voidray to armored targets, and do more than the voidray charged to unarmored targets. You'll still have to pre-charge before the fight and target armored units to get your moneys worth. The only difference is now you get less for your money.

 

[pieatorium]

I wouldnt be surprised to see the numbers get slightly tweeked furthe but this adresses the biggest poroblem with voidrays which was they were too weak vs everything uncharged abd too strong vs everything when chareged.

 

[Yaweee]

You're joking right? Robo openers are standard because as soon as the Terran gets a starport you have to backtrack and go robo just in case he builds a bashee. Not to mention the fact that a 111 opener gets a starport about the same time you'd get a robo when that's your planned tech path. It's the same reason it's standard to get a zealot and then a stalker as your first units out of your gateway, because you're blind countering against the possible opening aggression a terran can do (reapers or 2 maraduer 1 marine attacks).

Generally, it is a good opening, but 4 Gates, Phoenix, Chargelots, and HT are common enough for none of them to really be the "standard" opening. Perhaps were just splitting hairs over the definition of "standard".

But that was my general perception of it. I haven't played 1v1 in a few weeks.

 

[jasonng]

:lol :lol I will definitely be doing this.

Is the supply depot requirement really going to affect your 6 pool? Terrans are going to wall off the ramp with a depot first anyway.

 

[Hazaro]

:lol :lol I will definitely be doing this.

Because lots of Terrans go 8 or 10 rax before depot right? 6 pools are pathetic since once your initial wave is held off they get a MULE and you lose.

 

[Vaporak]

Generally, it is a good opening, but 4 Gates, Phoenix, Chargelots, and HT are common enough for none of them to really be the "standard" opening. Perhaps were just splitting hairs over the definition of "standard".

But that was my general perception of it. I haven't played 1v1 in a few weeks.

The point is that in competitive (which is what I was talking about) play none of those openers are used because they all auto-lose to a 111 opening from a good Terran if you don't scout the starport. So no, they're not common enough. If you use one of those openers you completely take the result of the game out of your own hands and put it in the hands of the Terran.

 

[Won]

Yeah, I don't get the 6 pool talk. It didn't work before, why would it now?

 

[Hazaro]

The point is that in competitive (which is what I was talking about) play none of those openers are used because they all auto-lose to a 111 opening from a good Terran if you don't scout the starport.

I don't understand where you are coming from.

 

[Vaporak]

I don't understand where you are coming from.

If you have no detection you lose to banshees.

 

[Technosteve]

why is the achievement server down??????

 

[MisterAnderson]

Why are people clamoring that Void Rays are useless now? Am I mistaken in that their level 3 charge damage has been unchanged and only their level 1 and 2 charge was changed?

Edit: 6 pool is not a big deal...there has been 0 timing changes. You could defend it before you can defend it now.

 

[slidewinder]

No, by level 2, they mean their max, charged damage.

 

[Hazaro]

Why are people clamoring that Void Rays are useless now? Am I mistaken in that their level 3 charge damage has been unchanged and only their level 1 and 2 charge was changed?

There is no level '2'

It was removed and they only have level 1 and 3 charge. When they have 2 beams they do the same damage as 1.

 

[MisterAnderson]

There is no level '2'

It was removed and they only have level 1 and 3 charge. When they have 2 beams they do the same damage as 1.

Oh...totally forgot that they made that change.

 

[Pandaman]

94.5kb remaining 0kbps.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

also the correct answer is 15 hatch, not 6pool.

 

[MisterAnderson]

So just to make sure I'm reading the Void Ray change right, prior to the patch it only did 5 damage in level 1 mode? Or 5 (+4 armored)? Or did they bump the level 1 charge up from 5 (no bonus to armored) to 6 (+4 armored)?

If it's the latter which I believe to be the case, that's a pretty significant increase and I think given the equally significant nerf to level 2 charge, it should be interesting to see how Void Rays work now that their OMG CRITICAL MASS CHARGE FUUUUUUU isn't as good. I honestly never really had trouble with Voids once I figured out how to counter them in beta and personally don't see the need to have had changed them, but who knows maybe it will work out for the best.

 

[slidewinder]

Or did they bump the level 1 charge up from 5 (no bonus to armored) to 6 (+4 armored)?

This.

 

[Vaporak]

So just to make sure I'm reading the Void Ray change right, prior to the patch it only did 5 damage in level 1 mode? Or 5 (+4 armored)? Or did they bump the level 1 charge up from 5 (no bonus to armored) to 6 (+4 armored)?

If it's the latter which I believe to be the case, that's a pretty significant increase and I think given the equally significant nerf to level 2 charge, it should be interesting to see how Void Rays work now that their OMG CRITICAL MASS CHARGE FUUUUUUU isn't as good. I honestly never really had trouble with Voids once I figured out how to counter them in beta and personally don't see the need to have had changed them, but who knows maybe it will work out for the best.

Bold is correct, but no it's not a significant increase. Sure, percentage wise it's a big increase, but in actual damage it's pretty minimal. The change is as if instead of having the old uncharged voidray attacking, you now have the old uncharged voidray and a marine attacking. It's still a practically irrelevant amount of damage for such an expense. Voidrays will still be terrible uncharged, but now they don't have their amazing anti-armored damage when charged to make up for it.

 

[Pyke Presco]

Just means that there is now a better place for Carriers to fit into the protoss army. Although to be fair, the only units that ever come out of my stargates are the phoenix (and eventually the mothership at the nexus). Although there was one game about a week back when Shakuras was first introduced to the ladder, I went Phoenix/Carrier/Colossus/Mothership/Stalker/Zealot against a poor 2.5 base Zerg. It was awesome to have everything being used, but only happened because my opponent was terrible. Ever seen what Mothershipped Colossus and Zealots do to Ultras? Or Phoenix/Carrier/Mothership to Corrupters? I almost felt bad for him...

EDIT: Decided to upload it because I am a whore for sharing my shitty games with the world:
Every bloody unit you can think of, with terrible execution and a worse opponent!

 

[vicissitudes]

Is the supply depot requirement really going to affect your 6 pool? Terrans are going to wall off the ramp with a depot first anyway.

Because lots of Terrans go 8 or 10 rax before depot right? 6 pools are pathetic since once your initial wave is held off they get a MULE and you lose.

The idea is if it's a smaller 2-player map and they scout on 8 or 9 and sees your 6-pool, instead of standard 10-depot they can start rax on 10/11 and then start depot after. Now they have to wait until the depot finishes to start barracks. I'm sure on some maps 1 depot + 1 barracks won't wall off completely which means 6 lings will get there and pop the marine then go for the mineral line. I still need to test this...

 

[pieatorium]

94.5kb remaining 0kbps.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

also the correct answer is 15 hatch, not 6pool.

I just lost doing that, completly my fault though as i didnt notice a bunker building RIGHT ON TOP OF MY FUCKING EXPO.

 

[pieatorium]

The idea is if it's a smaller 2-player map and they scout on 8 or 9 and sees your 6-pool, instead of standard 10-depot they can start rax on 10/11 and then start depot after. Now they have to wait until the depot finishes to start barracks. I'm sure on some maps 1 depot + 1 barracks won't wall off completely which means 6 lings will get there and pop the marine then go for the mineral line. I still need to test this...

the only maps that don't have ramps small enough to depot + rax wall are either not 2 player or scrap station which takes a month to get to your opponents ramp

 

[Hazaro]

I just lost doing that, completly my fault though as i didnt notice a bunker building RIGHT ON TOP OF MY FUCKING EXPO.

That's why you float your ovie there. Hatchery while building only has 3 sight range.

 

[Pandaman]

god i love this.
Do you have enough marines, emperor of man?

 

[clav]

^ :lol :lol :lol

 

[Pyke Presco]

Panda that is absolutely disgusting.

I also love the whole "I have 4 bases and 10000 resources banked and you have a main" thing you're doing with the place. That space port needed that splash of coloured goop to break up the sharp edges everywhere.

 

[Tenks]

VRs were a stupid unit design to begin with and their Kamehameha charge increasing damage so much made them even stupider. Now they'll be able to actually inflict some damage before going level2 and don't blast a hole into the center of the planet at level2. Nothing was more frustrating than a good VR jugglers.

With that said I haven't had many issues with VR in a long time. For how good they are they are pretty easy to counter as well.

 

[Visualante]

void ray buff? aw man

 

[Aylinato]

god i love this.
Do you have enough marines, emperor of man?

I had a 4v4 where i was the only person on my team in platinum in 1v1(the rest were silver) and we were facing a diamond 4v4 team, i mean...what?! how does that work?




To the two posters above me, I just killed 8 void rays with roughly 16 stalkers, when they were charged. Yea, no, they got nerfed not buffed.

 

[Adent]

 

[Won]

The idea is if it's a smaller 2-player map and they scout on 8 or 9 and sees your 6-pool, instead of standard 10-depot they can start rax on 10/11 and then start depot after. Now they have to wait until the depot finishes to start barracks. I'm sure on some maps 1 depot + 1 barracks won't wall off completely which means 6 lings will get there and pop the marine then go for the mineral line. I still need to test this...

It doesn't matter. In either case the Terran completes the wall, because he scouts your lings/pool, not because of some timing.

 

[-COOLIO-]

void ray buff? aw man

mostly a nerf

 

[Dreams-Visions]

woah. a lot of changes all of a sudden. I didn't think we'd see another big patch for a couple more months.

 

[Keikaku]

I posted a couple of pages back about how I wanted to switch to Zerg or Terran and I'm making the leap tonight.

I haven't played 1v1s for a good while now and I'm switching to Zerg. God help me :lol

EDIT: I fully expect my rating to drop like a rock. Bye bye Gold league

 

[Pandaman]

fruitdealer, inca, maka and boxer for day 1 of gsl 2. damn.

Good luck plan, nows the time to go zerg.
translaters note: plan means Keikaku

 

[Accidentus]

Weird how Blizzard drags their feet on 1.1 to make these minor changes, then this patch is rushed out pretty quickly.

Also, are the qualifiers all done yet? I heard Tester and Top didn't make it, are there any other big names that failed to qualify.

 

[AcridMeat]

I'm just a bronze division player and my 2v2 friend went to bed, so I decided I would go into 2v2 random as I haven't touched it after learning the game a bit more. What do I get? Teammate who drops as soon as the game loads.

I attempted to manage both at once, actually took out one of the player's main and expansion, but their Terran teammate was good and hid his main somewhere so I couldn't take them out. I was base dropped so I spent a good few minutes just searching for where their bases were :/

Until finding the Terran army and promptly dying.

 

[Corran Horn]

Having fun in 4v4 atm :lol

Its a nice break. A fuck-it Ill do what I want to win games!