Support NeoGAF

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Just look at this Joker design, you know this is exactly what comic book fans want to see and has nothing to do with any political lobbying group they paid to rewrite their game.

Why does he have a prosthetic leg? What is this even from?

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Apologies if already posted

 

[Bernardougf]

A

Kabrutus says the developers of "Flintlock: The Siege of Dawn" reached out to him swearing they've removed all SBI influences from their game. The verdict is still to be seen on that one.

But it's a big moment indicating developers are feeling the heat - they know the mark of Sweet Baby is a death knell.

Another game with a girl protagonist...good since we have so few of them this days.

 

[Doomtrain]

I feel like this bears repeating: diversity can be a positive goal. Representation can be a good thing. Games being made by diverse groups of people, FOR diverse groups of people and for different audiences, can be a good thing. Righting historical wrongs and breaking down systemic barriers can be a good thing.

You don't need to attack other groups of people to do those things.

When I look at these Sweet Baby people, or someone like Alyssa Mercante, I don't see people who are doing the former. I see people who are doing the latter. This lady isn't talking about empowering people; she just wants to attack people she dislikes. Likewise, the hill that Alyssa Mercante seems intent on dying on isn't that she's fighting to make things better for anyone. She repeatedly and decisively keeps coming back to "I want to be able to shit on white people and not be called racist." Then some weird mental gymnastics happen, where they conflate the two. "White people are the reason things suck for minorities, so therefore attacking white people/straight people/cis people/men IS THE SAME as helping minorities."

But they're not the same, and things aren't that simple. I'd argue that attacking people on the basis of their immutable characteristics is bad, period. And it's not just bad *for the people being attacked*. It's bad for the people doing the attacking. It promotes lazy thinking, and a hateful outlook, and it strips power from the attackers because it convinces them that they don't have the means to solve their own problems. It also fundamentally misunderstands how human psychology works. Attacking a large group of people is going to result in backlash, period. You can blame said backlash on "white fragility" or "the patriarchy" or whatever all you want, but the much more obvious truth is that people just don't like being antagonized or insulted. They're going to get mad, and they're going to be much less likely to want to help you.

These people are hateful, racist, sexist, and ignorant. They're everything they claim to hate.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Being overweight is not body positive and I'm tired of pretending it is.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

They're control obsessed freaks. They just don't like the idea of people existing and enjoying things outside their sphere of influence.

This!

It's a personality disorder called externalisation. Basically Karen behaviour. Fragile, overly sensitive individuals that blame external factors for their own psychosis... i.e. I'm miserable and depressed because you left the toilet seat up. That kind of thing but laced with collectivism and targeted at mainly white males.

If there were such a thing as toxic femininity... this would be one of the traits.

 

[Guilty_AI]

If there were such a thing as toxic femininity... this would be one of the traits.

There is, and yes, this is one of the traits. It mostly refers to bully-like behavior that attempts social humiliation with a spice of emotional manipulation.

Think of a girl in a school who harasses another in group, with shaming and shunning through fake rumors and name-calling. Then, when her deeds get caught, she immediately cries to garner sympathy.

 

[LegendOfKage]

I've said or rather alluded to it earlier. The dumbest fucking move was thinking the corporations are their allies.

No. When the low sales (for any reason) ramp up, the corporations will use these groups as an external scapegoat. They will cite "realigning" and "keeping things in house" as they cancel contracts and throw them under the bus. These consultanting groups are a lightning rod to deflect all blame from the suits.

They better get that grift money while they can.

The thing is, it's not a grift. it's all genuine, and it's all real. It's all the result of people making seven figure incomes who would rather look towards concern about race and gender in justifying their value as a good person. Are you a bad person because you're making obscene amounts of money compared to others in your company? Are you a bad person because your private jet is polluting more than a 1000 people recycling could ever make up for? No, you're a good person, because you care about race and gender. Nevermind that most decent normal people care about race and gender these days, and most at most only disagree with the divisive nature of your worldview.

If you ARE the inequality in the world in terms of your wealth, and power, and use of resources, you're naturally going to shift that blame / concern / emphasis to something that isn't your fault, or that you do not uniquely benefit from at the expense of countless others. None of this is a grift. It's just human nature.

 

[StueyDuck]

Apologies if already posted

I call bullshit on their friend being stalked on a completely unknown indie game because it had a "fuck white people" shirt. It just sounds like oppression Olympics .

Either way it's hilarious seeing them throw each other under the bus.

 

[Moriarty1889]

When I hear these clowns saying they want to add DIVERSITY SENSITIVITY INCLUSIVENESS and all the other shite they preach into games it makes me want to vomit. SENSITIVITY??? FFS…..grow a pair and stop sounding like such a bunch of bitch babies! What a soft as shit bunch of clowns talking this stupid crap. Amazing these people are actually even allowed to come within a foot of an actual dev studio and poison it…….says even more about the devs who work with them and allow them to ruin their products. All because they are scared to death of being called racist or homophobes or whatever other special term is used at the time by these weirdos.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I call bullshit on their friend being stalked on a completely unknown indie game because it had a "fuck white people" shirt. It just sounds like oppression Olympics .

Either way it's hilarious seeing them throw each other under the bus.

They are all abhorrent, vile people driven by hatred. All the sorority bullshit goes out the window at the first push.

They should feel lucky for having a dream job, but instead of taking that opportunity to get millions of fans by producing some good games, they ruin everything because they can't see any good in this world. They could be millionaires and still be miserable.

What a waste of oxygen.

 

[marquimvfs]

says even more about the devs who work with them and allow them to ruin their products

Yes, it's true. It's greed that make publishers even look to SBI-like companies. Larian BG3 director hit the bulls eye here. https://80.lv/articles/baldur-s-gate-3-director-criticized-publishers-greed-layoffs/

 

[StereoVsn]

how to really appeal to people, gain support & build a movement... not...

when it comes down to it, is the far left really good at fucking anything other than repeatedly shooting itself in the foot?...

Far Left or Far Right are pretty much inherently designed to appeal to the edges of society. May a Pox fall on them all.

 

[StereoVsn]

That's exactly the problem. I used to think nothing of the race/gender of characters in my entertainment. If anything, it seemed kinda cool to me when the cast was diverse.

Nowadays if I see a Strong Black Female featured prominently I immediately think "oh great, it's going to be one of THOSE games". I hate that this is my reaction, but for these people, the 0 charisma, asexual, mannish BIPOC woman is like the ultimate ideal for character design.

Seems like this is having exactly the opposite effect that these wackos claim to be aiming for.

As the Critical Drinker would say: "It's the MESSAGE" for the "Modern Audience".

Also, if you don't watch Drinker's YouTube channel, you should.

 

[StereoVsn]

Like I said above, I don't believe this. 8k is a lot of people, representation only folks don't have that manpower alone, and most of the layoffs were only made to satisfy shareholders. Woke culture may have some part in it, but the industry bought this situation themselves with the increased production value that was not sustainable in the long term, SBI and representation aside. It's more about Ubisoft yearly quadruple A not selling well because people are tired of formulaic open world games than some people screaming for representation, I believe. We need changes in the industry, otherwise every game will be a billion dollar Marvel movie roller-coaster until ideas are dry and people are tired of it.

Partially the issue is it's too many fucking consultants for every little thing which inevitably leads to constantly changing plot and narrative with the rush to finish everything around Year 7 when the Publisher got tired of this shit. Not even talking about SBI and its ilk.

- Making a game about North America, better get consultants against colonization, slavery, Native Americans, and on and on.

- Making a game about South America - see above

- Making a game about Europe? Make sure to include consultants to populate 15th century Bohemia with diverse characters, other consultants to help ensure nobody is offended, and more that I can't remember.

Basically you can't make AAA about jack shit without consulting with anyone remotely related to the topic. And everyone wants input.

 

[Fake]

Apologies if already posted

The last tweet was deleted. What was about?

Is good to get those folks called out.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

The last tweet was deleted. What was about?

Is good to get those folks called out.

Same as the lower right image, the part about her writing "fuck white people" on his character art.

Oh and another tweet about how that got their company a bunch of negative attention on a certain racist shithole message board.

 

[YCoCg]

 

[GrayChild]

 

[LegendOfKage]

I think GTA V had the right solution. They had some really talented writers who happened to not know very much about urban black culture outside of what they'd heard in rap songs and such. However, they also had talented black voice actors who performed in the roles that were written. And those actors of course did have a better understanding of authenticity, and the white writers listened to them and allowed them to make adjustments to the script.

That seems like a much better solution than wasting money on racist activist consultants. You just need to value and trust your voice actors.

 

[Doomtrain]

"Writers can only literally write about themselves" is certainly a take.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I got blocked by Mercante.

And I got blocked by Lalonders.

Maybe I should upload a profile picture to Twitter and start seriously using it.


Ha

 

[Piggoro]

Also, if you don't watch Drinker's YouTube channel, you should.

I tried watching him but each time dropped after less than a minute - his acting-drunk shtick is unbearable to me. Does he do it only in the beginnings and talk normally in the rest of a video?

 

[Guilty_AI]

Being the writer of Borderlands 3 already makes his entire argument invalid

 

[T-0800]

I tried watching him but each time dropped after less than a minute - his acting-drunk stick is unbearable to me. Does he do it only in the beginnings and talk normally in the rest of a video?

I don't know what you're talking about. You know he has an accent right?

 

[nush]

I tried watching him but each time dropped after less than a minute - his acting-drunk stick is unbearable to me. Does he do it only in the beginnings and talk normally in the rest of a video?

That's just Scottish.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

As the Critical Drinker would say: "It's the MESSAGE" for the "Modern Audience".

Also, if you don't watch Drinker's YouTube channel, you should.

He's annoying as fuck with his forced drink shtick. And smug as well with his opinions, really tried to give him a go but i just can't...

 

[stn]

The whole debate about "creators can only create characters similar to them" is so dumb. Just as an example, do these idiots not realize that Black Panther was created by Stan Lee (aka a white dude?).

 

[TheInfamousKira]

The whole debate about "creators can only create characters similar to them" is so dumb. Just as an example, do these idiots not realize that Black Panther was created by Stan Lee (aka a white dude?).

Of course not. Realizing it would require either

A. Research

Or

B. Familiarity with the corpse of the franchise they're trying to worm into and puppeteer.


Can't have either of those in a 2024 writers room.

 

[Sonik]

The curator needs to include games from other DEI grifters too, not just Sweet Baby inc, I know there are other curators people can follow but they're by far the biggest one

 

[StereoVsn]

He's annoying as fuck with his forced drink shtick. And smug as well with his opinions, really tried to give him a go but i just can't...

lol, the channel is called "The Critical Drinker". Would you think it's referring to him chugging down Sprite?

 

[Guilty_AI]

The whole debate about "creators can only create characters similar to them" is so dumb. Just as an example, do these idiots not realize that Black Panther was created by Stan Lee (aka a white dude?).

Step 1. Convince creative types they're bigots and that their bigotry shows on their work.
Step 2. Sell creative types the solution to the problem they made up in the form of consultant work.
Step 3. Profit.
S̸t̷e̴p̷ ̷4̶.̷ ̵?̶?̴?̸?̷
₴₮Ɇ₱ 𝟱. ₴Ø₵łɆ₮₳Ⱡ ₵ØⱠⱠ₳₱₴Ɇ.

 

[StereoVsn]

I tried watching him but each time dropped after less than a minute - his acting-drunk stick is unbearable to me. Does he do it only in the beginnings and talk normally in the rest of a video?

Yeah, pretty much. It's barely really mentioned in actual body if the video.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Also, a big thank you for Alyssa Mercante for introducing me to this channel.

https://www.youtube.com/@MelonieMacGoBoom/videos

EDIT: eh, not all that good after listening for a while, but its still funny to hear her takes.

 

[semiconscious]

The whole debate about "creators can only create characters similar to them" is so dumb. Just as an example, do these idiots not realize that Black Panther was created by Stan Lee (aka a white dude?).

a white jewish dude, at that. the magical selective memories of these people conveniently covers over everything that runs counter to their spiel. how the fuck have we in the west managed to survive up to now without these know-it-alls? & how does the non-western rest of the planet even continue to exist?...

 

[Red5]

Why would a video game need a writing team with outside consultants? To me it just sounds that you're not a good enough writer. Frank Herbert wrote the entire Dune universe by himself, same for Tolkien and Lord of the Rings, Martin, Sanderson, Jordan, they didn't need a team to write multi volume books.

Even some of the best written video games were written by one or two people like Mass Effect, Knights of the Old Republic, Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate.

Not convinced.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Why would a video game need a writing team with outside consultants? To me it just sounds that you're not a good enough writer. Frank Herbert wrote the entire Dune universe by himself, same for Tolkien and Lord of the Rings, Martin, Sanderson, Jordan, they didn't need a team to write multi volume books.

Even some of the best written video games were written by one or two people like Mass Effect, Knights of the Old Republic, Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate.

Not convinced.

They just want to funnel money to those people. They are all friends and allies.

 

[Lumyst]

Step 1. Convince creative types they're bigots and that their bigotry shows on their work.
Step 2. Sell creative types the solution to the problem they made up in the form of consultant work.
Step 3. Profit.
S̸t̷e̴p̷ ̷4̶.̷ ̵?̶?̴?̸?̷
₴₮Ɇ₱ 𝟱. ₴Ø₵łɆ₮₳Ⱡ ₵ØⱠⱠ₳₱₴Ɇ.

Don't remember which thread it was but someone recommended "The Coddling of the American Mind" to help explain Gen Z's mentality. That's step Zero, Gen Z

 

[Hypereides]

"Writers can only literally write about themselves" is certainly a take.

When you put it like that, it really does make them sound absurdly narrow-minded. How did these people land a job in a creative business anyway?

 

[StueyDuck]

"Writers can only literally write about themselves" is certainly a take.

It does explain 90% of modern written trash being thrown our way.

Obviously university and the education system is failing

 

[gaming_again]

lol at disregarding a thousand years of fiction. These people are not writers in any shape or form.

 

[kruis]

"Writers can only literally write about themselves" is certainly a take.

That's identity politics. Only bigots think we're all human beings who all feel empathy for each other. No, our various racial/ethnic/sexual/identities are what separate us from each other and it's not possible for a white writer to get into the skin of a black character and write authentically about his/her lived experience. That same white, middle-class, progressive, university educated, English speaking American author is allowed to write about any other white character in history, from cave men to Rusian tzars, from Roman gladiators to Scandinavian vikings, but isn't allowed to write about any black person living or dead, real or imaginary.

Simply take a look at Sweet Baby Inc. portfolio and you can see why their consultants had to be flown in to fix the writing and character building. Take Flintlock: The Siege of Dawn for instance. Takes place on an imaginary fantasy world where the protagonist "is a member of a coalition who must save mankind from extinction by fighting against the old Gods.". How on earth could a white author possibly know how fundamentally different Nor Vanek would talk, react, emote and fight if you make that imaginary character black by changing the hair style, facial features and skin color?

 

[Doomtrain]

That's identity politics. Only bigots think we're all human beings who all feel empathy for each other. No, our various racial/ethnic/sexual/identities are what separate us from each other and it's not possible for a white writer to get into the skin of a black character and write authentically about his/her lived experience. That same white, middle-class, progressive, university educated, English speaking American author is allowed to write about any other white character in history, from cave men to Rusian tzars, from Roman gladiators to Scandinavian vikings, but isn't allowed to write about any black person living or dead, real or imaginary.

This is a really good point. By these people's logic, you can empathize with aliens. You can empathize with people who lived hundreds or thousands of years in the past or future, in completely different circumstances, with completely different customs. You can empathize with sentient lizard monsters or bipedal dinosaurs that fire laser beams out of their dicks. But you can't empathize with your neighbor next door whose skin is slightly darker than yours.

That says way more about these people than the normies/gamers/OMG CISHET WHITE MEN/etc. they love to look down on.

 

[FunkMiller]

Of course white people can write about black people.

They just don't want them to.

 

[kruis]

Of course white people can write about black people.

They just don't want them to.

Yep. It's all anti white rhetoric hidden in activist mumbo jumbo terms like "lived experiences" and "cultural appropriation".

 

[Eiknarf]

Don't remember which thread it was but someone recommended "The Coddling of the American Mind" to help explain Gen Z's mentality. That's step Zero, Gen Z

That was me who recommended it in the thread titled:

Layoffs at Respawn somehow mostly hitting "PoC, queer folks and those on parental & medical leave" complains disabled queer ployamorous employee

 

[DarthPutin]

I guess Tolstoy should've outsourced Natasha Rostova for the closest teen girl to write.
Even more ridiculous is similar argument with actors.

 

[duck_sauce]

This!

It's a personality disorder called externalisation. Basically Karen behaviour. Fragile, overly sensitive individuals that blame external factors for their own psychosis... i.e. I'm miserable and depressed because you left the toilet seat up. That kind of thing but laced with collectivism and targeted at mainly white males.

If there were such a thing as toxic femininity... this would be one of the traits.

Externalisation is not a personality disorder. It is a mental defense mechanism that all people use (on a daily basis) to protect the personal self image.

 

[gaming_again]

I guess Tolstoy should've outsourced Natasha Rostova for the closest teen girl to write.
Even more ridiculous is similar argument with actors.

Basically every book that's ever been written.

 

[Lumyst]

That was me who recommended it in the thread titled:

Layoffs at Respawn somehow mostly hitting "PoC, queer folks and those on parental & medical leave" complains disabled queer ployamorous employee

Thanks, I just finished it a few days ago, really explains well about Gen Z's way of being and how it happened, due to differences in childhood and education with safetyism/paranoid parenting and the way the internet fit into their lives compared to for instance people 30 and over. It actually calls Gen Z "iGen" since the author writes that the iPhone and social media being an ubiquitous part of tween/teen life was the dividing line in attitude between for instance the college students who needed safe spaces and free speech zones to contain free speech, and those who rolled their eyes at all that. Once the eye rollers graduated all that was left on college campuses was those people who need safe spaces and protection from contrary ideas. I myself was on campus as an "eye roller" seeing things slowly changing but graduated before iGen was the majority in college.