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Super Best Friends Thread 17: I don't have Bloodborne or Monster Hunter... Uhh...

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Z

Zenfalcia

Member
Romars202129 said:
It's such a shame that the people that hate that vid, really really hate that vid, because I'd adore another.
I need more drunk self conscious Pat ranting about maple syrup in my life.
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It is the worst Pat LP ever.
:p
You did have another, during Pat stares at Evil within part 15 or something.
 
R

Ragnorok64

Member
Imperfected said:
Actually, Woolie's completely full of shit.

1. Training Stage is not chosen because backgrounds interfere with recognizing character model boundaries. First of all, you can choose costumes and colors that have close chromatic patterns to the Training Stage background on several characters. Second, you can choose costumes that actually change the silhouette of the character, which is the important part for players to visually "read" what's going on.

2. EVO is not "completely for the players". The event is now largely sponsored, both by platform holders (Sony, Capcom, etc.) and by secondary advertisers (MadCatz, Hitbox, etc.), and furthermore by tertiary player sponsors (Evil Geniuses, Team Liquid, etc.). Player individual buy-in is no longer the only component in the tournament, or even the primary component for Ultra Street Fighter IV in particular.

3. Player comfort isn't and never has been the primary concern of the tournament organization. If it were, players would play in private rooms without an audience and the audience would simply watch on a closed-circuit feed of the game from another room. EVO is very much about the audience and spectacle. EVO is a public event.

Pat's not entirely correct, either, though really Matt's the closest of the bunch: any player who's trying to play at EVO of all places who says they need to be on Training Stage to perform
sexually
needs to get the fuck good. That's like someone claiming to be a professional artist saying they only work on graph paper.
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Are you actually serious right now? I'll admit that Woolie's argument may have gotten rather unfocused, but Pat never had a legitimate argument from the get go. His entire position was that there should be a rule preventing competitors form picking training stage because it's boring for spectators.

That is completely absurd.

Yes there are sponsors and projectors and huge crowds but at the end of the day the tournament is about the competition between the players. If both players are most comfortable playing on the stage with least visual distractions and the least chance of slowdown then that's the stage that will be played. Spectators that are bored can just hold that, because that are not as important as the people actually playing on stage for the money.

Also, Matt saying "get good" is one of the stupidest things he's ever said on the podcast. You don't get to "get good" players that are literally the best in the world at the game.
 
G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
Ragnorok64 said:
Also, Matt saying "get good" is one of the stupidest things he's ever said on the podcast. You don't get to "get good" players that are literally the best in the world at the game.
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He's talking about players that claim that some stages distract them, which I agree with, that's some whiny bs. Jurassic stage and Volcanic Rim aside none of the stages actually hinder gameplay.
 
R

Romars202129

Member
Alfebit said:
It's a decent game. Not the shitty shit Matt makes it out to be.
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Pat hates it too, and they won't even play the dlc, I couldn't believe that...

I'd like it to be good, but my RE4 boner has taken enough hits already. Freaking Mikami himself, with a brand new studio tries it again... and it's only okay? Oy, my greasy heart can't take it.
 
M

mike0dude

Member
you guys can't stop the woolie self destruction
QiOAmXh.jpg
 
I

Imperfected

Member
Ragnorok64 said:
Are you actually serious right now? I'll admit that Woolie's argument may have gotten rather unfocused, but Pat never had a legitimate argument from the get go. His entire position was that there should be a rule preventing competitors form picking training stage because it's boring for spectators.
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Like I said, Pat's not completely correct either. To say that players should not be allowed to pick the stage at all is also incorrect. However, players who want to play on Training Stage should be shown no more preference than players asking to play on any other (non-Volcanic Rim) stage.

Yes there are sponsors and projectors and huge crowds but at the end of the day the tournament is about the competition between the players. If both players are most comfortable playing on the stage with least visual distractions and the least chance of slowdown then that's the stage that will be played. Spectators that are bored can just hold that, because that are not as important as the people actually playing on stage for the money.
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If both players are. Woolie's claim, however, was that if a player ever demands to play on Training Stage the judge should enforce that, and fuck what the other player wants. That is not correct at all,

Also, Matt saying "get good" is one of the stupidest things he's ever said on the podcast. You don't get to "get good" players that are literally the best in the world at the game.
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No, he's entirely within his rights to say "get good" to a supposedly-professional player who claims they are unable to perform under the normal circumstances for playing the game. That's like a football player saying they can't play on Sundays, or a soccer player saying they can only play at night. If you claim to be a professional Street Fighter player you'd damn well better be able to play the game on more than one stage or no one should take you seriously.

I've got a feeling Matt can play on every stage in the game without having to give ridiculous Johns for why he's getting beat. That makes him more of a professional than any pro player who tries to say they lost because the other guy wanted to play Street Fighter on a stage that looks like an actual street.

(That said, I don't think you would actually convince more than maybe one or two of the FGC's most shameless "villains" to even try to claim that. I think Woolie is full of shit and they just keep going to Training Stage because they're creatures of habit and would be perfectly willing to play on another stage if someone just fucking asked.)
 
E

E_Darkness

Member
Imperfected said:
or a soccer player saying they can only play at night.
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Just made me chuckle because of the Qatar stuff.
Just replace night with heat.

I didn't realise the training stage stuff was actually a problem for some people. The fact they hardly discussed EVO on the podcast annoyed me but the fact they argued for a good chunk of time about training stage was even worse. I wanna know what they thought of that damn good finals of USF4.

I'm glad they mentioned Domi's Cinder. I was shocked that there was a Japanese player in top 8 of an XBO exclusive fighting game. That's just unreal. I like to think Domi hardly used any breakers because of his infamous bursting.
 
A

Alfebit

Banned
Romars202129 said:
Pat hates it too, and they won't even play the dlc, I couldn't believe that...

I'd like it to be good, but my RE4 boner has taken enough hits already. Freaking Mikami himself, with a brand new studio tries it again... and it's only okay? Oy, my greasy heart can't take it.
Click to expand...

I see. The difference is where you, and Matt, expected RE4-2 I went into it not expecting much. Came off thinking it was definitely worth my $25. And Pat, during the LP at least, sounded mostly just disappointed with the game by the end where as Matt got really hard to listen to for the last 3rd of the LP.
 
C

chaobreaker

Member
That training stage argument my god. Yeah it sucks that these pro players want to fight in the most optimal conditions, which means wholly playing on the boring white gridlines stage but that's just the way it is. Or maybe they don't just give a shit and hey look training stage is the first highlighted stage option lets just go there.

These pro players already get shit for playing "scrubby" characters or using "scrubby" tactics to win. I don't think we should be booing them for picking the boring stages too. Come on, Pat.

That being said, maybe there's an argument to be made that some stages can get way too busy and thus distracting. Perhaps developers should take these things in consideration when making fighting game stages.

P.S. Yeah Reboot! Boo bad Reboot game!
 
R

Ragnorok64

Member
Imperfected said:
Like I said, Pat's not completely correct either. To say that players should not be allowed to pick the stage at all is also incorrect. However, players who want to play on Training Stage should be shown no more preference than players asking to play on any other (non-Volcanic Rim) stage.



If both players are. Woolie's claim, however, was that if a player ever demands to play on Training Stage the judge should enforce that, and fuck what the other player wants. That is not correct at all,



No, he's entirely within his rights to say "get good" to a supposedly-professional player who claims they are unable to perform under the normal circumstances for playing the game. That's like a football player saying they can't play on Sundays, or a soccer player saying they can only play at night. If you claim to be a professional Street Fighter player you'd damn well better be able to play the game on more than one stage or no one should take you seriously.

I've got a feeling Matt can play on every stage in the game without having to give ridiculous Johns for why he's getting beat. That makes him more of a professional than any pro player who tries to say they lost because the other guy wanted to play Street Fighter on a stage that looks like an actual street.

(That said, I don't think you would actually convince more than maybe one or two of the FGC's most shameless "villains" to even try to claim that. I think Woolie is full of shit and they just keep going to Training Stage because they're creatures of habit and would be perfectly willing to play on another stage if someone just fucking asked.)
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Are you even listening to yourself? Matt's more "professional" because he can play casually on any stage? What?

Training Stage is the most neutral stage, if someone requests it, of course it should take priority. If someone actually wanted to contest it, stage select would likely go down to a coin toss like choosing side did in the KBR vs Apologyman match.

That said, Pat's position that there should be rules forcing competitors to not pick training stage still holds no water from the get go.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
Ragnorok64 said:
Are you even listening to yourself? Matt's more "professional" because he can play casually on any stage? What?
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Street Fighter is a game that is played on a variety of stages. If you claim to be a professional Street Fighter player and can't play the game on a variety of stages, you're a fucking a joke and should stop calling yourself a professional.

However, as I said, I have never heard a professional player actually say that, and I don't think any player who's less of a heel than Filipino Champ would even try to claim they lost a set because of a stage background. Any that have, feel free to put on blast; I don't care if it's Daigo and Infiltration, they go to instant "scrublord" status for me the second they say they lost a game because they didn't have a white background with grid guides to play on.
 
C

Conan-san

Member
Re: Stages in Evo;

I'm sort of inetween both views (I do think they should at least alternate between Training and another stage but until EVO presses on the matter it's not worth getting pissed off about it. I'm more surprised, however, that Smash 4 Final Destination is allowed as that is on the opposite end of the spectrum as that background is a visual clusterfuck.
 
A

Anung

Un Rama
Conan-san said:
Re: Stages in Evo; I'm cool with whatever, I'm more surprised Smash 4 Final Destination is allowed as that background is a visual clusterfuck.
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Smash itself is a clusterfuck at tournament level. I love Smash but just don't see the appeal at Evo.

EDIT: I'm not a big fan of Mahvel either but I'll admit it was sick as hell this year.
 
C

Conan-san

Member
Anung said:
Smash itself is a clusterfuck at tournament level. I love Smash but just don't see the appeal at Evo.

EDIT: I'm not a big fan of Mahvel either but I'll admit it was sick as hell this year.
Click to expand...

I'm cool with admitting that but FD 4's background is almost deliberately distracting.
 
R

Ragnorok64

Member
Imperfected said:
Street Fighter is a game that is played on a variety of stages. If you claim to be a professional Street Fighter player and can't play the game on a variety of stages, you're a fucking a joke and should stop calling yourself a professional.

However, as I said, I have never heard a professional player actually say that, and I don't think any player who's less of a heel than Filipino Champ would even try to claim they lost a set because of a stage background. Any that have, feel free to put on blast; I don't care if it's Daigo and Infiltration, they go to instant "scrublord" status for me the second they say they lost a game because they didn't have a white background with grid guides to play on.
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Who cares what status you dole out?

No one is saying players are incapable of playing in other stages in the game. But if someone is playing in competition, it is totally within their rights to pick an optimal stage. If you, as a spectator, don't like it that's too bad. These guys are playing under incredible pressure against the best players on the planet. If they don't want to deal with screeching dinosaurs in a hidiously busy background on top of all that, more power to them.

All this isn't even addressing the potential performance issues that some of these stages can introduce. There's a reason pretty much only Training Stage and Bonne Wonderland get picked in Marvel.
 
S

skLaFarebear

Member
Not sure if anyone did it yet, but correcting Liam. It was Mang0 who threw his medal, not Hbox.

Edit: Totally on Liam/Woolie side about stages, especially USF4 when some stages have inherent lag built into them and have much more going on in the background than stuff like KI and MKX that can be really distracting.
 
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