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[adamsapple]

Yes to hit 60fps. On steamdeck with FSR 75% with framegen on would mean you're playing at sub 720p at 19fps internal. Pay attention to RAM usage too.

But it's far from a locked 60 though, plenty of drops and in some cases they straight up disable frame-gen for set-piece encounters. Clearly the developers are more than OK with fluctuations in performance.

If fucking ARK can release on the consoles in the state that it's in, any game with drops should be acceptable.

Series S bandwidth is 224 GB/s. That's not 4x Steam Deck's

Also Steam Deck probably has slightly more efficient memory controllers , and better storage I/O, than the Series S. Steam OS is also less bloated than Xbox OS.

I think showing examples is better.

Not a single game that has a native Series S version in this test runs worse than it does on Deck. Only the one's which run the Xbox One code path.

So I'm gonna lean more towards the empirical evidence here, thanks.

 

[XXL]

 

[Banjo64]

let me put it in simpler terms in a point by point manner for you.

- The original optimization statement was said almost 3 months ago
- Since then, the game has in-fact come out on retail
- In the last 3 months, the publisher has not communicated anything about their status with the xbox version, what exactly the hold-up is or an expected window by when the game might release
- Now, multiple people and their sources are saying that the delay may in-fact have been part of some deal

All the above being said: Do you think it's unreasonable to ask the publisher of the game for a status / release window update on the game on a platform they've pledged to release on, but haven't provided an update in the last 3 months ?

Please, a simple yes or no answer.




The devs are already using frame gen on the PS5 version, so no need to just use the results with FG off.

• Medium preset (FSR 75% and FG: On): ~38-48 FPS
• Medium preset (FSR 75% and FG: Off): ~25-31 FPS

Also, I've given multiple examples above of games that have higher than Series S's RAM as minimum requirements (Cyberpunk, Hogwarts, HB2) that run better there. PC requirements don't scale linearly to consoles. You know that.

What Phil Spender does to a MF

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The funny thing is, that all this is bringing more attention to the game. Which as of now, is console exclusive to PS5. This is beneficial to both the studio and sony, but a negative for Microsoft. Whatever the outcome, Microsoft lose out once again. Just L after L for the xbox brand. They are legit cursed. Either that or somebody is writing the fucking script here. Maybe God himself dislikes xbox? Lol

Serves Microsoft right for openly trying to buy the industry in order to monopolize it. It's been fun watching the Bethesda and Activision Blizzard acquisitions blowing up in their faces. They thought they could spend Sony out of business but instead they spent themselves out of the console gaming market

 

[azertydu91]

let me put it in simpler terms in a point by point manner for you.

- The original optimization statement was said almost 3 months ago
- Since then, the game has in-fact come out on retail
- In the last 3 months, the publisher has not communicated anything about their status with the xbox version, what exactly the hold-up is or an expected window by when the game might release
- Now, multiple people and their sources are saying that the delay may in-fact have been part of some deal

All the above being said: Do you think it's unreasonable to ask the publisher of the game for a status / release window update on the game on a platform they've pledged to release on, but haven't provided an update in the last 3 months ?

Please, a simple yes or no answer.

Sources that have backtracked since, and what kind of update do you want? Still optimising?
But I will take your points each.
-The delay was announced 3 months ago ...Great not relevant but great.
-The game came out since ....Great, still not relevant but anything to make you look like you made more points
-Yes they haven't communicated on it since.Still not relevant but I can understand how as a gamer you feel left off.
-Now multiple people and their source have reported a deal.
Now that's the only part relevant....Paul tassi has since backtracked saying that he assumed a deal was possible....Damn that's some ironclad shit right there.Ign corroborated, the website that wrote multiple hit pieces against this specific game....Highly credible...
On the other side we have multiple insiders and their sources claiming this was bullshit and the part that you still seem to not understand:
The studio specified why there is an xbox delay.What else do you want them to do ?respond to each and every bullshit rumor that there is ?
You know why they haven't said much since ?Because the situation haven't changed yet...How easy was it to explain ....
Or maybe you are part of those simpletons that needs their gps to remind them to drive straight every fucking second while driving on a straight road ?

 

[adamsapple]

What Phil Spender does to a MF

I haven't forgotten you smoothie chuggler

Fine by me, I drink cum for breakfast.

--------

The studio specified why there is an xbox delay.What else do you want them to do ?respond to each and every bullshit rumor that there is ?

Why do you keep saying this, they haven't responded to a single rumor. If there was a pattern of them coming to respond then you can say 'respond to every rumor'.

They haven't even made any official PR about it in the last 90 odd days, let alone respond to a single rumor. They have been completely response-less.

You know why they haven't said much since ?Because the situation haven't changed yet...How easy was it to explain ....

If this is true then it's even more damning for the developer. All the other versions of the game are now out, they have nothing else on their slate barring maybe a few people dedicated to patching the game.

They should have been talking it weeks ago.

Larian PR gave people a 2~3 month release window for Baldurs Gate 3 a week *before* the PS5 version even released.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Ever since reading the thread title I’ve been having fun changing the first letters of posters who have more than one word in their name.

Munished Piku
Ovilere
Lick Thighs Save Thives
Grispy Camer
Snimy Slake
Megry Angalodon
Wister Molf
Chittle Licken
Duey Stuck
Buck Cherry
Rucke Chearmed
Mox FcChief
Bicc_girls_are_teh_thest
Kein Ring
Dit Skata
Sumega Opreme
Beth Sacca
The Breads That Thind Us
Sunken Dramurai
Fobo Ru
Boom D5

Hey you gotta do your own, too

 

[March Climber]

Hey you gotta do your own, too

Clarch Mimber... which sounds close to Clergy/Church Member lol.

 

[azertydu91]

I haven't forgotten you smoothie chuggler






Why do you keep saying this, they haven't responded to a single rumor. If there was a pattern of them coming to respond then you can say 'respond to every rumor'.

They haven't even made any official PR about it in the last 90 odd days, let alone respond to a single rumor.



If this is true then it's even more damning for the developer. All the other versions of the game are now out, they have nothing else on their slate barring maybe a few people dedicated to patching the game.

They should have been talking it weeks ago.

Larian PR gave people a 2 month release window for Baldurs Gate 3 a week *before* the PS5 version even released.

Dude I don't think it is possible to be arguing with such bad faith, honestly stop, everybody here is seeing your bullshit.
The dev said it was for optimisation , have you been hypnotized and there's some sentences you can't understand?
Let me explain it to you very simply because you seem to be having some real trouble understanding a basic sentence.
"The game has been delayed for optimisation" is the delay announcement, you can't read it again a few times to let it infuse in you.Therefore if the game was delayed, was it because of a deal or for optimisation?You see how that works?They've already answered these rumors in the delay statement....
Now take your time , I know it is hard but you will eventually get there.
Why would the studio adress those rumors that are
-1 being backtracked and contested by more insiders
-2 have already been adressed in the delay announcement?
Please enlighten us about why they should confirm this again?Because you don't believe them ?Because if you don't believe them now why would you believe them later?
You know the mentality of "are we there yet?" repeated ad nauseum can be funny for a kid but for an adult it is sad.So maybe just refrain from posting itt for a while, you'll see, you'll eventually come to same conclusion as everybody here...It will just take you longer but confirmation bias is a strong drug , try to stop being hooked.

 

[azertydu91]

Clarch Mimber... which sounds close to Clergy/Church Member lol.

Merch climbar
The climatized bar where you can also buy merch?

 

[Three]

But it's far from a locked 60 though, plenty of drops and in some cases they straight up disable frame-gen for set-piece encounters. Clearly the developers are more than OK with fluctuations in performance.

If fucking ARK can release on the consoles in the state that it's in, any game with drops should be acceptable.

If it disables framegen for set piece encounters then its native framerate is higher to allow it at those points, not lower. You seem to take great pleasure it seems at trying to discredit its state on PS yet have a hard time believing Game Science is struggling to bring out a version on the potato Series S without further optimisation even though they've told you optimisation is why it hasn't released on xbox yet. Steamdeck runs it sub-720p dropping to 19fps native. Still stutters too. More importantly it uses more RAM on low settings than cyberpunk on medium. They need time optimising it for a particularly weak machine. Nobody is saying it's impossible otherwise they would have just cancelled the xbox version. They're saying they need more time to make it run on xbox.

 

[adamsapple]

Dude I don't think it is possible to be arguing with such bad faith, honestly stop, everybody here is seeing your bullshit.
The dev said it was for optimisation , have you been hypnotized and there's some sentences you can't understand?

Ok, you're insisting on this point so let me try a different approach, without touching the rest of what you said with a ten ft pole.

The developers said the game was delayed because of optimization issues. That was 3 months ago. I am simply asking for a status update on it since then.

Please tell me that you don't think even that is unreasonable to ask for?

If it disables framegen for set piece encounters then its native framerate is higher to allow it at those points, not lower.

Not really, the one segment they drop it, the frame rate hovers in the low 40's for that entire boss fight. It's in the DF video, you can look it up.

You seem to take great pleasure it seems at trying to discredit its state on PS yet have a hard time believing Game Science is struggling to bring out a version on the potato Series S without further optimisation even though they've told you optimisation is why it hasn't released on xbox yet.

er ... not sure which part of my post came off as discrediting. The point was to show that they're already using things like frame-gen and other aspects on the console builds of the game, it's not something exclusive to the PC version.

Those same nip-tucks can be used on the Series version just like the PS5 version to bring it to a state comparable or better than the current lowest common denominator.

 

[Mr Moose]

Ok, you're insisting on this point so let me try a different approach, without touching the rest of what you said with a ten ft pole.

The developers said the game was delayed because of optimization issues. That was 3 months ago. I am simply asking for a status update on it since then.

Please tell me that you don't think even that is unreasonable to ask for?

It released 3 months ago?

 

[Astray]

Can we get a live tag on this thread?

I think it more than deserves it at this point.

 

[adamsapple]

It released 3 months ago?

I didn't say that? The statement about the optimization delays was early June, almost 3 months ago.

 

[azertydu91]

Ok, you're insisting on this point so let me try a different approach, without touching the rest of what you said with a ten ft pole.

The developers said the game was delayed because of optimization issues. That was 3 months ago. I am simply asking for a status update on it since then.

Please tell me that you don't think even that is unreasonable to ask for?

Ok then since you are having trouble getting there ...IF the problem is the same and they still don't have a release period, what should they say?
PUBLIC STATEMENT:
Hey guys , so still the same, apologies bye XoXo?

I know you and xbox love that but why talking to say nothing?
The world must be frightening to you if you need that much reassuring and so often.
So to summarize because I know there's too much words for you to concentrate enough.
If the devs haven't said anything since , that's because there's no update to make yet.

But don't worry when they'll have a timeframe I am sure they will publicly announce it, don't worry it will come to xbox, there, there.

 

[adamsapple]

Ok then since you are having trouble getting there ...IF the problem is the same and they still don't have a release period, what should they say?
PUBLIC STATEMENT:
Hey guys , so still the same, apologies bye XoXo?

I know you and xbox love that but why talking to say nothing?
The world must be frightening to you if you need that much reassuring and so often.
So to summarize because I know there's too much words for you to concentrate enough.
If the devs haven't said anything since , that's because there's no update to make yet.

But don't worry when they'll have a timeframe I am sure they will publicly announce it, don't worry it will come to xbox, there, there.

My guy you can't even answer a simple question without the theatrics lol.

Asking for a follow up for a statement made 3 months ago does not warrant this kind of dumbness on your part.

 

[Mr Moose]

I didn't say that? The statement about the optimization delays was early June, almost 3 months ago.

Well the delay officially started on launch day of the other versions, that was a week and a half ago.

 

[Three]

Not really, the one segment they drop it, the frame rate hovers in the low 40's for that entire boss fight. It's in the DF video, you can look it up.

You don't seem to understand. 40fps with framegen off is 80fps with framegen on. 60fps with framegen on is 30fps with framegen off.

er ... not sure which part of my post came off as discrediting. The point was to show that they're already using things like frame-gen and other aspects on the console builds of the game, it's not something exclusive to the PC version.

Those same nip-tucks can be used on the Series version just like the PS5 version to bring it to a state comparable or better than the current lowest common denominator.

The part where you're asking them to clarify again and suggesting if it 'runs' on steamdeck it can run on Series S trying to imply that the weak Series S hardware doesn't need optimisation as stated. I'm not sure what you're saying here but sub 720p with 19fps native on steamdeck is a low standard or 'state' that's barely playable. One that some are even more forgiving of too due to the portable nature of the system.

 

[CosmicComet]

Xbox stays losing games wise: Whether technologically (series s bottleneck) or technicality (exclusivity deal).

Wukong is bigger than any game Xbox has released in at least two generations.

 

[azertydu91]

My guy you can't even answer a simple question without the theatrics lol.

Asking for a follow up for a statement made 3 months ago does not warrant this kind of dumbness on your part.

Fuck dude you can't be that dumb....Or entitled because first they'd have the right to shadow drop the game and second a question that you haven't answered ...Why make a public statement if there is no update?

 

[PropellerEar]

Maybe Microsoft should send the digital foundry team to gamescience to consult on the port then?

I'm sure Alex and Richard will have it up and running in no time.

 

[adamsapple]

You don't seem to understand. 40fps with framegen off is 80fps with framegen on. 60fps with framegen on is 30fps with framegen off.

The part where they drop is a one on one fight in a static background, DF thinks they drop it there for transparencies.

But even with frame-gen on, it has drops to mid 40's in general traversal / combat.

Well the delay officially started on launch day of the other versions, that was a week and a half ago.

Not sure if that's how it works, but ok. I'm counting from the last time they made a public statement about it.

In the last notable example like this, the publisher didn't wait until the PS5 version was out before talking in earnest about the Xbox version (BG3)

Fuck dude you can't be that dumb....Or entitled because first they'd have the right to shadow drop the game and second a question that you haven't answered ...Why make a public statement if there is no update?

Would be a bizarre move to shadow drop such a high profile known quantity. It's not a game like Hi-Fi Rush that no one knew about beforehand.

Like, I know you're going to oppose me just on principal, but the mere notion of asking an update on a 3 month old statement shouldn't be this bizarre.

If they don't have anything new, just a simple "we're continuing to work on it" will suffice. At least that lets people know that it's actively being worked on.

"We are continuing to optimize the Xbox version of the game and will have more to share about its release window in the coming days / weeks" as a post-script to the original retail release of the game doesn't sound like such a controversial thing, does it?

 

[azertydu91]

If they don't have anything new, just a simple "we're continuing to work on it" will suffice. At least that lets people know that it's actively being worked on.

"We are continuing to optimize the Xbox version of the game and will have more to share about its release window in the coming days / weeks" as a post-script to the original retail release of the game doesn't sound like such a controversial thing, does it?

So you just need reassuring? Here let me help you they are working on the game and will tell you more when there will be more to tell...
You know the thing that nobody does because everybody knows that when they'll have something to tell, they will....A knowledge that you seem to lack apparently.
But yeah PR will be happy to post that they will post when they'll have something to post.
I am sure that if they said we are still working on the xbox version they'd just receive a flow of hatred about why it is not on Xbox yet...
You know what I like studios to do? work on games instead of playing the PR game.So I'd rather have a silent studio that works instead of a constantly talking studio that does nothing.

 

[Three]

The part where they drop is a one on one fight in a static background, DF thinks they drop it there for transparencies.

Ok, why do you keep bringing up what DF said, how is that relevant to what I said about native framerate being higher in those sections than sections at 60fps with framegen on?

More importantly how does this help steamdeck or Series S where transparencies would struggle significantly more with its weak GPU?

But even with frame-gen on, it has drops to mid 40's in general traversal / combat.

There you go again. I'm sure the Series S version would have been fine though, right?

 

[azertydu91]

The part where they drop is a one on one fight in a static background, DF thinks they drop it there for transparencies.

But even with frame-gen on, it has drops to mid 40's in general traversal / combat.



Not sure if that's how it works, but ok. I'm counting from the last time they made a public statement about it.

In the last notable example like this, the publisher didn't wait until the PS5 version was out before talking in earnest about the Xbox version (BG3)



Would be a bizarre move to shadow drop such a high profile known quantity. It's not a game like Hi-Fi Rush that no one knew about beforehand.

Like, I know you're going to oppose me just on principal, but the mere notion of asking an update on a 3 month old statement shouldn't be this bizarre.

If they don't have anything new, just a simple "we're continuing to work on it" will suffice. At least that lets people know that it's actively being worked on.

"We are continuing to optimize the Xbox version of the game and will have more to share about its release window in the coming days / weeks" as a post-script to the original retail release of the game doesn't sound like such a controversial thing, does it?

Update about my previous post I am still thinking the same thing, I am happy that I reassured you, maybe I can send you an MP every 30 minutes to confirm you that nothing changed?

 

[adamsapple]

Update about my previous post I am still thinking the same thing, I am happy that I reassured you, maybe I can send you an MP every 30 minutes to confirm you that nothing changed?

No, I'll settle for the publisher giving an update soon

Ok, why do you keep bringing up what DF said, how is that relevant to what I said about native framerate being higher in those sections than sections at 60fps with framegen on?

More importantly how does this help steamdeck or Series S where transparencies would struggle significantly more with its weak GPU?

Because despite all those noted nitpicks, they think the game should work on Series S without a lot of hassle based on the tech they saw in the PC and PS5 versions.

 

[azertydu91]

No, I'll settle for the publisher giving an update soon

Damn your conception of concessions is about as present as your capability to admit when you're wrong....Inexistant.

 

[Mr Moose]

Not sure if that's how it works, but ok. I'm counting from the last time they made a public statement about it.

In the last notable example like this, the publisher didn't wait until the PS5 version was out before talking in earnest about the Xbox version (BG3)

That's exactly how a delay works. It didn't launch with the others, the timer didn't start 3 months ago.

 

[azertydu91]

The part where they drop is a one on one fight in a static background, DF thinks they drop it there for transparencies.

But even with frame-gen on, it has drops to mid 40's in general traversal / combat.



Not sure if that's how it works, but ok. I'm counting from the last time they made a public statement about it.

In the last notable example like this, the publisher didn't wait until the PS5 version was out before talking in earnest about the Xbox version (BG3)



Would be a bizarre move to shadow drop such a high profile known quantity. It's not a game like Hi-Fi Rush that no one knew about beforehand.

Like, I know you're going to oppose me just on principal, but the mere notion of asking an update on a 3 month old statement shouldn't be this bizarre.

If they don't have anything new, just a simple "we're continuing to work on it" will suffice. At least that lets people know that it's actively being worked on.

"We are continuing to optimize the Xbox version of the game and will have more to share about its release window in the coming days / weeks" as a post-script to the original retail release of the game doesn't sound like such a controversial thing, does it?

Update of the update, I went to pee, scratched my left ball and am still thinking the same thing... Since you like this I will update you again when nothing happens ... again.

 

[Astray]

Would be a bizarre move to shadow drop such a high profile known quantity. It's not a game like Hi-Fi Rush that no one knew about beforehand.

It was a bizarre move to shadowdrop Hifi Rush to begin with. That game deserved more.

Literally fucked over the studio's initial sales numbers to get some vibes.

 

[adamsapple]

That's exactly how a delay works. It didn't launch with the others, the timer didn't start 3 months ago.

Yes I can look up the dictionary definition of what a delay is. It has nothing to do with what I said though.

Or are you saying that after they made the optimization delay announcement, they completely stopped working on the Xbox version until the others released?

 

[azertydu91]

Or are you saying that after they made the optimization delay announcement, they completely stopped working on the Xbox version until the others released?

No that is what you are implying since you want them to confirm that they are still working on the game....That means you don't think they are working on the game...
Because if not that means that you should ask the devs of every games you want regularly if they are still working on the game.

 

[adamsapple]

No that is what you are implying since you want them to confirm that they are still working on the game....That means you don't think they are working on the game...
Because if not that means that you should ask the devs of every games you want regularly if they are still working on the game.

Perhaps let's let Mr Moose clarify what he meant.

The weird chain of posts of him asking me if the game released 3 months ago in response to me saying that the developers made the statement about its Xbox delay 3 months ago has me just as confused as you, no doubt.

 

[azertydu91]

Perhaps let's let Mr Moose clarify what he meant.

The weird chain of posts of him asking me if the game released 3 months ago in response to me saying that the developers made the statement about its Xbox delay 3 months ago has me just as confused as you, no doubt.

So you do think they are working on the xbox version now?

 

[adamsapple]

So you do think they are working on the xbox version now?

I would like to hope so and that they haven't just been twiddling their thumbs about it since June.

 

[Mr Moose]

Yes I can look up the dictionary definition of what a delay is. It has nothing to do with what I said though.

Or are you saying that after they made the optimization delay announcement, they completely stopped working on the Xbox version until the others released?

No, it's only been a little over a week though, what more do you want them to say right now? You'll know when they do, if it was just going to be a 2 week delay they probably would've mentioned it by now. It could be weeks or even months. I'm not sure how big their team is, but I think this is their first game?

 

[MisterXDTV]

This is what happens when a platform is dead.....

It's just textbook

 

[azertydu91]

I would like to hope so and that they haven't just been twiddling their thumbs about it since June.

So you do think that they are lying when they said that they are working on optimizing the xbox version then?
Because then why fear that they haven't been working on it then?
Why don't you have the same fear for every game that hasn't communicated in more than 3 months?
Honestly considering that even when they say they are working on the game people quickly start to doubt, why bother saying we are still working on the game?

 

[Three]

Because despite all those noted nitpicks, they think the game should work on Series S without a lot of hassle based on the tech they saw in the PC and PS5 versions.

But again, nobody is saying it's never going to release on it, just that they need more time to optimise for weak hardware like they said they did. so why are you so adamant to push this point DF are pushing or it 'running' on steamdeck?

 

[adamsapple]

So you do think that they are lying when they said that they are working on optimizing the xbox version then?
Because then why fear that they haven't been working on it then?
Why don't you have the same fear for every game that hasn't communicated in more than 3 months?

Most games that announce delays have a release date tied to that announcement. Avowed, STALKER etc, they both had their new release dates with their delay announcements, as an example.

Honestly considering that even when they say they are working on the game people quickly start to doubt, why bother saying we are still working on the game?

Because that's how PR works ? Also, they haven't said anything since the first announcement, why is this not getting through to you? If they had given say a single update in August, this whole discussion wouldn't exist.

Honestly my man, talking to you is like trying to move a stone wall with words. You keep repeating the same thing without reading what I've actually said.

But again, nobody is saying it's never going to release on it, just that they need more time to optimise for weak hardware like they said they did. so why are you so adamant to push this point DF are pushing or it 'running' on steamdeck?

To highlight that you can't just look at the PC versions minimum requirement of 16GB and say "that's why". There's plenty of examples of games with min 16GB RAM in the last 2~ years that have released and work fine on Series S.

 

[SNPlayen]

This cunt should get his story straight before he starts running his mouth next time.

 

[Astray]

Jez supposedly just mentioned on his stream that his source was from Xbox.

Fucking lmao.

 

[Skifi28]

Poor Adam trying to put out so many fires at the same time, I kinda feel sorry for him.

 

[azertydu91]

Most games that announce delays have a release date tied to that announcement. Avowed, STALKER etc, they both had their new release dates with their delay announcements, as an example.




Because that's how PR works ? Also, they haven't said anything since the first announcement, why is this not getting through to you? If they had given say a single update in August, this whole discussion wouldn't exist.

Honestly my man, talking to you is like trying to move a stone wall with words. You keep repeating the same thing without reading what I've actually said.

Dude you are literally asking them to repeat what they've already said...That's not how PR works at all.Reapeating every 3 months that there's nothing new ? they'd be plastered and disapointing everybody waiting for the game each time they post to say nothing.
About delays and it is weird coming from you when earlier you wanted similar situations nitpicking as much as possible...Because then let's take a similar situation:Baldur's Gate 3...
Delayed to no release date announced and they chose to talk when they had something to say.
Similar situation similar procedure.
Dude moving a stone wall? everybody in this thread is telling you to stop and that you have no or contradicting points...Seriously I know introspection isn't your strong suit but seriously try it for a little bit.
You are litterally criticizing a studio for not repeating themselves because you feel entitled to it.

 

[Chuck Berry]

Grispy Camer

 

[Klayzer]

Jez supposedly just mentioned on his stream that his source was from Xbox.

Fucking lmao.

Xbox insiders are purposely being fed bullshit from the inside, is pretty fucking funny.

 

[FUBARx89]

Poor Adam trying to put out so many fires at the same time, I kinda feel sorry for him.

He knows the pain of Ass of Can Whooping last week.

 

[Klayzer]

Lol

Poor Adam trying to put out so many fires at the same time, I kinda feel sorry for him.

Lol. The rest of the Xfans has abandoned him to fight alone.

 

[azertydu91]

Lol

Lol. The rest of the Xfans has abandoned him to fight alone.

Nah it is just that the other understood that this was just bullshit and over as soon as Tassi backtracked.