Muddy
Member
480>1050 ti. 480 is 1060 level.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X Will Both Be Partially Outclassed by the Time That They're Released And Fully Outclassed One Year Later
- Thread starter BluRayHiDef
- Start date
480>1050 ti. 480 is 1060 level.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
I'm surprised DLSS 2.0 wasn't mentioned in the OP.
IMO this is could be the real game changer as far as a perceptive performance gap as it allows around a 40% performance boost over what is already there on your card if it has tensor cores. This is going to enable MANY more PC's to run RTX to the fullest extent that the devs implement it within a game, at MAX settings and with playable framerates. And if you don't want to turn on RTX you'll be able to spend that headroom on resolution or fps... If this really becomes something that is easy for devs to implement, or even something you can just simply implement through nvidia control panel... This is going to be huge for those who want to build a PC but don't have the money to spend on the top of the line cards. It's also going to make your cards last longer...
IMO this is could be the real game changer as far as a perceptive performance gap as it allows around a 40% performance boost over what is already there on your card if it has tensor cores. This is going to enable MANY more PC's to run RTX to the fullest extent that the devs implement it within a game, at MAX settings and with playable framerates. And if you don't want to turn on RTX you'll be able to spend that headroom on resolution or fps... If this really becomes something that is easy for devs to implement, or even something you can just simply implement through nvidia control panel... This is going to be huge for those who want to build a PC but don't have the money to spend on the top of the line cards. It's also going to make your cards last longer...
DoctaThompson
Banned
So again. If a game is limited on consoles to 30fps. And I can play the same game @60fps with similar graphical settings to consoles, on pc... Which is the better preformer?
The xb1x is extremely similar to an rx 580, yet the rx 580 on pc can run at higher framerate and details.
Either way, what does this even matter? We're arguing over minute differences at this point. The fact still remains, the average pc gamer (not pc user), has similar or better specs than consoles. And many will upgrade when next gen consoles release, and when Intel and AMD release their latest cpus, and when AMD and Nvidia release their latest gpu's.
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
They said PS4 was alreadty too weak when it arrived. Yet Ive gotten better looking and more original games than the PC thats 4 times more powerful.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
I just don't want any more jaggies and low frame rates. I never upgraded my consoles to the refreshed. I have a launch edition PS4 and an Xbox 1S.
X1S gets the most use for 4kHDR Blu-ray and gaming, but I get burned out on the low frame rates for certain games. Indie stuff is fine on either console. For high end games like Tomb Raider and Doom I go for PC unless I can find a physical copy for a console that's cheap. Exclusives are bread and butter of console gaming but I'm ready for an upgrade.
In the end I really don't care who is more powerful, just give me good games at a decent price with solid frame rates and less jaggies. I have a decent PC right now (rtx2060s/32gb ram/Xeon 1660) but I rarely play my consoles because they feel old/last gen. And I'm not going to upgrade then to the refreshed versions because it's too expensive at their end of life.
X1S gets the most use for 4kHDR Blu-ray and gaming, but I get burned out on the low frame rates for certain games. Indie stuff is fine on either console. For high end games like Tomb Raider and Doom I go for PC unless I can find a physical copy for a console that's cheap. Exclusives are bread and butter of console gaming but I'm ready for an upgrade.
In the end I really don't care who is more powerful, just give me good games at a decent price with solid frame rates and less jaggies. I have a decent PC right now (rtx2060s/32gb ram/Xeon 1660) but I rarely play my consoles because they feel old/last gen. And I'm not going to upgrade then to the refreshed versions because it's too expensive at their end of life.
Shmunter
Member
The proper CPU’s in the next gen will give them a long life. It was the underpowered CPU’s that halved framerates in most games, they could not generate the draw calls together with all the game logic, sound, etc. despite the gpu’s having plenty of capability to render that scene complexity at more FPS.
This current gen will be monumental. Conversely those SSD’s will make pc life sweaty to say the least.
This current gen will be monumental. Conversely those SSD’s will make pc life sweaty to say the least.
Last edited:
Kagey K
Banned
Who is going to have the money to buy the pc parts if this keeps going on?
No matter what the consoles do, PC parts will be made available to make them better than the consoles, but they all come at a much higher cost.
Just because PCs can outclass them doesn’t mean most do, in a fact it’s a very small percentage that do, based on all public knowledge.
No matter what the consoles do, PC parts will be made available to make them better than the consoles, but they all come at a much higher cost.
Just because PCs can outclass them doesn’t mean most do, in a fact it’s a very small percentage that do, based on all public knowledge.
DoctaThompson
Banned
Ok, I'll bite. HOW? How will pc's suffer from this? You do realize the fastest ssd in the world has been out from last year. (P.S. it's not being used in ps5, and is faster than ps4 ssd). Here's another thing. Loading times aren't any different when using sata. Ssd, nvme drives in pci 3.0, or pci 4.0. So again, how will pc's "life become sweaty to say the least"?
Last edited:
Kagey K
Banned
I’d hope so since the PS4 isn’t using an SSD.
DoctaThompson
Banned
Oh really? What is it's storage device called then? I recall Cerny saying the word "ssd" at least a million times during his asmr presentation.
Last edited:
Kagey K
Banned
On the PS4?
DoctaThompson
Banned
Yup. Or Xbox SX. What format of storage are they both using? Secret Sauce Device?
Kagey K
Banned
I’m going to have to double check that.
I would have bought a PS4 in 2013 if it contained that SSD.
That technology would have been unbelievable at that time.
Last edited:
DoctaThompson
Banned
My bad, fixed that, **ps5**
Fact still remains. Fastest ssd is not in ps5. Nor does it matter much, as loading times aren't much faster than an older gen ssd.
I don't need to upgrade my ssd's at all, and I'll still play next gen games with higher fidelity, framerate, and resolution, than next gen consoles. This whole ssd shit has been super over blown, and people without common sense are going ballistic, thinking it's the Holy Grail or something
Kagey K
Banned
I saw the typo an wanted to bust your balls over it, and then you doubled down.
I don’t disagree with you. I was just having some fun over a small mistake.
DoctaThompson
Banned
Lol it's all good. I don't blame you one bit haha
Last edited:
93xfan
Banned
And again the advantage of consoles is clear as day:
You don’t have to play with elitists who act and speak like this.
Last edited:
Kagey K
Banned
Thank fuck all those kids went to PS4 this gen.
I hope Xbox keeps losing so we do t have those kids come back.
93xfan
Banned
Just as I enjoy my switch, I will be happy with a next gen console. The better load times and the amazing value for a generational leap over current gen will make me more than satisfied.
-I like to play MP games in a controller vs controller environment.
-I like it to be pick up and play.
-I like to not feel a need to toggle endless settings/upgrade every few years.
-I don’t feel like putting in the time to research best hardware and settings
-I like the value of consoles and the excitement for new generations.
I get that some like PC gaming and that’s great. But there’s no need to act superior or pretend it has no drawbacks.
-I like to play MP games in a controller vs controller environment.
-I like it to be pick up and play.
-I like to not feel a need to toggle endless settings/upgrade every few years.
-I don’t feel like putting in the time to research best hardware and settings
-I like the value of consoles and the excitement for new generations.
I get that some like PC gaming and that’s great. But there’s no need to act superior or pretend it has no drawbacks.
Last edited:
Shmunter
Member
Load times are good, but real-time asset streaming is the game changer. Streaming that will be universal to consoles only, I don’t expect pc’s as a platform to reach such a baseline for awhile to come and hence, till then things will be sweaty.
Last edited:
Airbus Jr
Banned
DoctaThompson
Banned
What is with people and their infatuation with what the next man has? I never understood this toxic mentality. Get what you like, and don't worry about others. I only care about what I have, and no next gen console has my interest, as it would be a downgrade.
Why would pc's need that when the average gamer has 16gb of ram or more? That's not including vram either. Even old ram is faster than ssd's. Why would anyone want to stream textures from a ssd vs from the ram? Do you even understand how pc gaming differs from consoles? Or do you only listen to console PR/hype?Load times are good, but real-time asset streaming is the game changer. Streaming that will be universal to consoles only, I don’t expect pc’s as a platform to reach such a baseline for awhile to come and hence, till then things will be sweaty.
Last edited:
Shmunter
Member
Bro, living in Denial is not a river in Egypt. Nah, you’re alright bro, carry on.
llien
Member
Both PS5 and even more so XSeX WIPE THE FLOOR with 95% of the PC market at the moment.
And that by pure raw power (2070s/2080s levels) not even counting int game developer effort to optimize for consoles specifically.
This situation is not going to change any time soon, both will be one hell of beasts.
Heck, I'd happily pay $650 for an unlocked XSeX that could be used as PC.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
...below.
Why does the fastest pcie ssd on pc not load much faster than an hdd, just 2-5 times faster? Why is even a ramdisk with installing to ram directly not much faster than an hdd? It could very well be the many many bottlenecks Cerny mentioned exist and keep ssds from living up to their potential. The ps5 has custom i/o removing all bottlenecks, making it not 2-5 times faster than an hdd, but 100 times faster. That is why it is revolutionary, it is not just an extremely fast ssd, it is an extremely fast ssd without bottlenecks.
DoctaThompson
Banned
Do you have any proof of said claims? Not like a tech demo, but any footage of loading a level in a next gen game? These certain claims were made, along with 8k resolution. It kind of reminds me of how current gen consoles were supposed to be native 4k60fps. Just like previous gen was supposed to be native 1080p.... There's a trend with consoles, that have outrageous claims, and usually never come true. I don't doubt developers will optimize loading times on ALL platforms. Remember now, devs had to cater to the lowest hardware, which were very slow laptop hard drives included in ps4 and xb1. We will see if all of these claims hold true, but for now there is absolutely no factual evidence to support those claims.
TBiddy
Member
Issue is that people take the marketing buzzwords from Microsoft and Sony and present them as gospel. "We've removed all bottlenecks" or "Instant Access to 100 GB on the SSD" and what have you.
VFXVeteran
Banned
D DoctaThompson cornered you good eh?
Hmm.. 95% of the PC market shouldn't be a concern when comparing which platform has the best hardware to play the game at the best levels attainable. DF compares the top of the line GPUs with the top of the line consoles. Why would you be happy with having more powerful hardware than someone's low-end PC? That sounds like someone desperate to justify their purchase. "My PS5 is da shit! It can run circles around a 1060 GPU!!!" /lame
No he doesn't. Remember the PS guys say things as if they are developers working at Sony. All of their comments are factual and must be adhered to since it's been proven already in a game they've made or a benchmark they've designed.
Last edited:
Kokoloko85
Member
ALwasys the case with PC’s. More expensive, more power.
Plus to me I still love my console exclusives.
At least this time, consoles will be playing games at 60fps and at 4k at that. Right now that is great and for the price I dont see PC much better for the same price.
Plus to me I still love my console exclusives.
At least this time, consoles will be playing games at 60fps and at 4k at that. Right now that is great and for the price I dont see PC much better for the same price.
JLB
Banned
This is bs. Theres plenty of pc games that destroy the best looking games on any console. Theres nothing close to Control with RT on consoles. Not even close.
GymWolf
Member
i have a question for people who think that devs develop their games core around pc specs and not console specs.
why games on pc don't have better physics or destruction with console having scaled down physics and destruction?
i mean, my cpu is far far faaaaaaaaar better than any jaguar but destruction and physics in control, metro exodus or rdr2 are EXACTLY the same...the only few games that have some secondary\tertiary better physics effect are game that use nvidia physics tricks but the core physics in the game remain the same.
same for polygon count, geometry etc.
maybe it's money and time consuming creating game around a 2080ti\i9 for the 2% of pc gamers that possess top tier hardware and then develop an entire different game for console?
I mean the difference is so gigantic in terms of hardware that if you develop for top tier hardware the game can't be the same on console, am i wrong? exactly like a ps5 nextgen game can't be made on a ps4, especially in terms of how devs are gonna use modern cpus.
maybe an i9 cpu can't do better physics and destruction than a jaguar and a 2080ti can't have double the number of polygons on screen compared to a xone gpu...
or maybe, just maybe it's easy to develop for the weakest hardware and then adding all the bells and whistles for pc version to use the spare power because is far too easy compared to creating 2 completely different version of the same games for every game that come out...
inb4 the usual comments, i know that every game is developed on a pc, but the core experience is still designed for console specs.
also i'm mostly a pc gamer that still use console for exclusive, i don't have a foot on this war or envy syndrome for pricey hardware, just to give some context.
why games on pc don't have better physics or destruction with console having scaled down physics and destruction?
i mean, my cpu is far far faaaaaaaaar better than any jaguar but destruction and physics in control, metro exodus or rdr2 are EXACTLY the same...the only few games that have some secondary\tertiary better physics effect are game that use nvidia physics tricks but the core physics in the game remain the same.
same for polygon count, geometry etc.
maybe it's money and time consuming creating game around a 2080ti\i9 for the 2% of pc gamers that possess top tier hardware and then develop an entire different game for console?
I mean the difference is so gigantic in terms of hardware that if you develop for top tier hardware the game can't be the same on console, am i wrong? exactly like a ps5 nextgen game can't be made on a ps4, especially in terms of how devs are gonna use modern cpus.
maybe an i9 cpu can't do better physics and destruction than a jaguar and a 2080ti can't have double the number of polygons on screen compared to a xone gpu...
or maybe, just maybe it's easy to develop for the weakest hardware and then adding all the bells and whistles for pc version to use the spare power because is far too easy compared to creating 2 completely different version of the same games for every game that come out...
inb4 the usual comments, i know that every game is developed on a pc, but the core experience is still designed for console specs.
also i'm mostly a pc gamer that still use console for exclusive, i don't have a foot on this war or envy syndrome for pricey hardware, just to give some context.
Last edited:
Sagii86
Member
You are wasting your breath there. This thread is all about PC vs consoles not trying to understand any point for that matter.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Most games are geared towards visuals and are bottlenecked by the GPU. Physics realism is a part of an entire graphics engine. Most graphics engines don't invest money into real physics. PC games that do aren't GPU-limited but CPU limited like flight simulators (i.e. Digital Combat Simulator, or I-Racing for example).
Polygon count and geometry is very very limited in GPUs and we're talking about high-end GPUs. The tech just isn't fast enough yet with bandwidth. Consoles won't see it at all. You'll see higher poly counts with high-end GPUs first. That's why PC games can push larger LODs than consoles because they have more bandwidth, but still not enough for CG kind of polygon throughput. We are still a long ways away from rendering enough polygons to mimic real hair fibers.
The bandwidth is used for pushing higher pixels with better quality pixels. This is what eats up the throughput on PC GPUs. That's why even a 2080Ti @4k can't hold 60FPS on the RTX-enabled games. It's not that they aren't optimized, it's that the amount of data going through the pipeline is too much to process. That's why you won't see next-gen console games pushing RTX @4k/60. At least not with ALL RT features enabled unless they make other sacrifices (like texture quality or only ray-tracing certain things, etc..).
Bottomline, physics isn't a big priority when developing games. Most companies uses 3rd-party software physics engines so they don't have to mess around with it. Zelda: BoTW being a big exception as it has amazing physics. Polygons throughput is still limited, even for 2080Tis so it's a pipe dream thinking it'll be available for consoles that can barely match a 2080 throughput. RTX is the big game-changer as far as graphics fidelity and good lighting. Throwing a bunch of rays through a console's pipeline isn't going to run very well so sacrifices will have to be made (i.e. resolution, less rays, less RTX features, and/or other 3D features being scaled down). We haven't seen what Ampere can do yet. It may very well give 50% - 100% better performance than the 2080Ti. This would be a good building block hardware for next-gen game development that the studios can then scale down to consoles. Some of the demos coming out of the Ampere board could look amazing if not for speed alone.
Last edited:
Snake_Plissken
Neo Member
Get a lapboard; PC gaming FTW.
F
Foamy
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah PC gamers like the one who killed me in crossplay tonight and when I spectated him afterwards I saw he was blatantly using hacks. That's the biggest reason PC gaming sucks. And now we're being forced to deal with it on console.
Shmunter
Member
There’s no question to what you’re saying. The evidence is plainly around us, anyone denying this is performing for amusement purposes only, no other explanation for it.
Last edited:
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
I never said there isnt higher res game on the PC. Im saying 6 years later on a hardware they said was outdated from the very first day gave us God of War 4 and Spiderman. And those games look absolutely stunning. So all this pro- pc master race talk how the next gen consoles are already going to be old hardware...yeah let me see a PC put out games like these for $500 on a runing late to the party HW. Also majority dont run their games on 4K and ultra graphics with RT becuase they dont have a $3000 PC. Most people i know still play 1080p on their little 23 ultra wide monitor. $500 consoles and 65" TV any day of the week.
Last edited:
nkarafo
Member
To be fair, the new consoles will be closer to PCs compared to PS4/XBOXone that weren't even as good as budget oriented PCs.
At sub 30fps.
Sorry, that's just not going to happen. Maybe 60fps/1080 but that won't "sell" as well as 4K. So expect (sub) 30fps/4K as the standard.
Last edited:
vaibhavpisal
Member
Comparing pc parts with console parts is no way to go.
I know PS4 cpu is hated. Now imagine what a pc would do with that processor in current games.
Consoles wouldn't be outclassed unless you start getting into 8k. At 4k they will more than keep up. Just like at 1080p, current gen can keep up.
I know PS4 cpu is hated. Now imagine what a pc would do with that processor in current games.
Consoles wouldn't be outclassed unless you start getting into 8k. At 4k they will more than keep up. Just like at 1080p, current gen can keep up.
Kokoloko85
Member
we shall see. Some games this gen are already 4k 30fps. So whats the point of doing the same.
subpar 30fps. But dont forget how much money you spend on a pc lol
GymWolf
Member
so to sum up, no, games and engines are not really developed around modern cpu and gpu and if they are, they do a shitty job on showing better results than games created around jaguars (except for the usual bells and whistles), got it.
it's gonna be funny when next-gen games are gonna have a jump in physics and destruction with cpu that are already old compared to top tier pc cpus, what is gonna be the excuse this time for not having this jump with cpus that were already capable of doing this many years ago?
i mean, if physics is not a big priority while developing a game not reason to believe in a jump on new console with modern (but still already surpassed) cpu right? i guess we will see how true this is in a couple of years.
the mistery continues...
Last edited:
nkarafo
Member
The point is that developers will try to squeeze the best graphics possible once again. Also, don't forget Ray Tracing will probably be a thing next gen.
So what, i'm getting what i'm paying for. The best experience with multiplatform games, the best emulators and frontends, nearly infinite backwards compatibility that covers multiple generations, free "remasters" (every past generation game gets a higher resolution and frame rate treatment), high-refresh rate gaming, etc.
vaibhavpisal
Member
No one has any games or footage.
Sony has promised a generational leap, optimised SSD etc etc. You want to call them a liar, its totally fine. I am personally excited by the possibilities.
Playing Red dead redemption 2 in 4k with all bells and whistles vs 1080p mid high settings on base PS4, I wouldn't call this a generational leap. More like a nice to have thing.
llien
Member
We are in a thread about "consoles so weak" and you are:
1) Saying it doesn't matter PS5 will beat 95% of current PC market, (XSeX will beat 98%)
2) Calling 95% of the PC market "low end".