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[danowat]

but we are a strong country

Define what you mean by "strong" for me please, especially whilst saying Norway isn't.

 

[liquidtmd]

I can see this happening and people cheering.
Typical Brits English/Welsh

Yup. "WEVE LOST THOSE NASTY BANKERS, YAY"

This is why this is insanity. Even best case scenarios of leaving involve us potentially losing our financial centres.

Madness.

 

[ferrasvansen]

I can see this happening and people cheering.
Typical Brits English/Welsh

This is exactly how i see it playing out, going to cost us a huge chunk of our economy and if Labour get their house in order by 2020 a repeat of 1997 is in the offing.

 

[Dougald]

How is Wales btw ? It's the only part of UK I've never visited, and I was always curious to do it. With the low pound it could actually be a good opportunity.

If you like countryside it's nice, though not as much as Scotland. Good motorcycling roads, that's the limit of my experience in Wales. Best thing Wales has going for it is not being England

 

[Alx]

France cynicallly intends to offer Britain an EEA- that excludes passporting, but givs them a migration cap, and single market access.

This is a brilliant move: "you get less Poles, but we want your banks." It would be in France's interests to encourage UK out to get banks.

Yeah, not good FR. Don't touch migration freedom, or the only thing our own sceptics will take from that will be that we could ask for border control too. And whatever financial benefit "stolen" from London will be lost to them (and to France in general if we're going the UK way).

Some parts of Wales are breathtakingly beautiful, a bit like the Scottish highlands. (...)

The Northern and Western Coasts of Wales are some of my favourite parts of the UK. Beautiful part of the UK, lovely people.

If you like countryside it's nice, though not as much as Scotland. Good motorcycling roads, that's the limit of my experience in Wales. Best thing Wales has going for it is not being England

Thx. I love hiking in quiet places actually. I love, love Scotland already (went there 2-3 times already and will certainly go back), but I'd like to know more of the Island. As long as locals haven't started shooting at French tourists yet.

 

[Zaph]

I'm going to take the Polish out of it because I personally find them to be mostly great, but the last batch of Eastern Europeans to arrive aren't generally exactly the most liberal minded bunch either.

One accusation we almost certainly cannot throw around any more.

 

[danowat]

If you like countryside it's nice, though not as much as Scotland. Good motorcycling roads, that's the limit of my experience in Wales. Best thing Wales has going for it is not being England

Love Wales (I'm half Welsh and visit at least once a year), but I have noticed, especially the north of Wales, it seems to have become less and less Welsh over the years.

 

[Aki-at]

They can't strike any deals yet, yes, but they can be working to prepare them when UK exits. That's what Crabb says, if I understand him correctly, it makes sense.



I'd use a different analogy, but this one would do as well. Yes, that's how things are.

We don't even have enough negotiators to even undertake this process.

 

[d9b]

I'm going to take the Polish out of it because I personally find them to be mostly great, but the last batch of Eastern Europeans to arrive aren't generally exactly the most liberal minded bunch either.

?
Can you be more specific? And reason why do you think so?

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

This would be absolute fuckery.

I mean, I'm sure that things won't be that bad once everything is said and done, but there's also no doubt in my mind that France is frothing at the mouth, even more so than Germany.

There's also a lot of political pressure to move the financial capital to Europe as ways to prevent Germany from amassing way too much power. Couple that with France's own nationalism and a political class that never forgot the ages long feud with the UK, and you have a turd stew going, baby.

Negotiations usually have to start somewhere.

 

[Funky Papa]

François Hollande rules out City’s euro clearing role - French president moves to strip London of crucial stage in derivatives and equities trading

François Hollande said at the end of a summit in Brussels where EU leaders started trying to pick through the wreckage of David Cameron’s referendum defeat that it would be unacceptable for the crucial stage in the trading of derivatives and equities to take place in the UK.

“The City, which thanks to the EU, was able to handle clearing operations for the eurozone, will not be able to do them,” he said. “It can serve as an example for those who seek the end of Europe … It can serve as a lesson.”

The removal of the City’s right to clear in euros is a cherished goal of the European Central Bank in Frankfurt but one that was previously thwarted by the UK in the EU courts.

The ECB had argued it was unfair for it to be expected to provide emergency support to clearing houses that operated outside its jurisdiction. The UK had argued that a “location policy” would discriminate against Britain and challenge its role in the single market. George Osborne, UK chancellor, described the UK’s court victory in 2015 as a “major win for Britain”.

Mr Cameron made the prevention of any further such encroachments by the ECB one of the priorities of his, ultimately futile, renegotiation of the terms of Britain’s EU membership.

There goes your economy if this comes to pass, UK. An internal, mendicant market with little international projection and more dependant from the EU than ever.

 

[nOoblet16]

What do you think prompted Three to introduce Feel at Home? It didn't exist before the clamp down on roaming fees

Why is it only in few EU countries then?
More importantly why does it exist in non EU countries like Switzerland, Norway as well as non European countries like USA, Australia, Indonesia, Sri Lanka etc?

Feel at home has existed since 2011-2012 (2013 for those European countries)...while the proposal to abolish roaming fee in EU is not even in effect as of yet ! (It was suppose to be in effect from December 2015, then delayed to June next year)

 

[shinra-bansho]

He did not say with the EU though! did you notice that, could be a tactic to hit the EU with.....we have good excellent deals with other countries, so we don't need free trade anymore

The UK is still in the EU. It remains so until it begins formal withdrawal procedures.

Why on earth do you think other countries are going to start engaging in trade talks with the UK right now?

What resources does the UK even have to engage in trade negotiations right now?

You keep posting nonsense and blather and it riles people up. Stop doing this.

 

[Phantast2k]

This would be absolute fuckery.

I mean, I'm sure that things won't be that bad once everything is said and done, but there's also no doubt in my mind that France is frothing at the mouth, even more so than Germany.

There's also a lot of political pressure to move the financial capital to Europe as ways to prevent Germany from amassing way too much power. Couple that with France's own nationalism and a political class that never forgot the ages long feud with the UK, and you have a turd stew going, baby.

Yeah, I think this is the punishment France and Germany envision for UK with France playing bad cop.

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

?
Can you be more specific? And reason why do you think so?

Poles, Romanians, Slovakians etc really tend not to like each other never mind anything else. Fierce rivalry there.

 

[oti]

EU to UK apparently: You get NOTHING
Well, not quite nothing, but:

@b_judah
Have been running around the City of London last few days. Here's an update.

Merkel and Brussels have outright already refused an EEA+ agreement that gives UK migration control, passporting and single market access.

What is passporting? All banks registered in UK have a "passport" that allows them to do business with whole EU. The City depends on it.

Base case is Berlin and Brussels plan to insist on an EEA- (i.e. a worse deal than Norway) that excludes passporting, migration controls.

This would however allow services to continue to have access to the singoe market. But not financial services. Mass migration continues.

This is formal offer. But Paris is planning a turn of cynical brilliance - that could at a stroke smite London and restore Paris to glory.

France cynicallly intends to offer Britain an EEA- that excludes passporting, but givs them a migration cap, and single market access.

This is a brilliant move: "you get less Poles, but we want your banks." It would be in France's interests to encourage UK out to get banks.

This would leave some stuff shirt like Crabb in a disastrous position: Paris and Berlin would have handed him a deal only "bad for bankers."

But the cynical French deal would be exactly the kind of cap migration, free movement for us and single market deal that the public want.

The next Tory muchkin leader would then be a hideous position: have his tax base slasshed at by loss of banks as his voters rejoice.

Paris and Frankfurt would emerge as enormous winners by ending passporting. Hugely boosting popularity of French and German leadership.

/British public will be left moronically clapping the huge triumph of a few less Poles and the punishment for "bankers" and tax base slashed.

//City analysts I met look with unbrindled distain on a Tory leadership class they think are simply muppets. No clue what's about to hit them.

La Grande Nation and das Land der Dichter und Denker send their regards.

 

[Zatoth]

François Hollande rules out City’s euro clearing role - French president moves to strip London of crucial stage in derivatives and equities trading

There goes your economy if this comes to pass, UK.

But they still have cake.

 

[Ethelwulf]

If the UK backpedals on leaving the EU, isn't this bad in terms of what voting means? For me it sounds like:

Here, decide what you want us to do (democracy).
Negative result: Ermmm, well... not that.

I suppose this is less bad compared to the consequences of leaving the EU, right?

 

[ferrasvansen]

François Hollande rules out City’s euro clearing role - French president moves to strip London of crucial stage in derivatives and equities trading




There goes your economy, UK.

Yeah well done Johnson, Cameron, Gove, Stuart, Farage... you gave your country one hell of a beating.

 

[Palculator]

 

[Funky Papa]

Negotiations usually have to start somewhere.

This "somewhere" is looking more and more like Mike Adriano's basement. I don't know if I'd want to start there.

 

[oti]

Do you change your avatar every two hours?

 

[accel]

We don't even have enough negotiators to even undertake this process.

I don't think that's true at all. Why are you saying that? UK always had this talent.

 

[jelly]

Source: Scottish Government

That's 5 years ago to be fair. I don't know how much it's changed since then.

 

[HazySaiyan]

Except the part where formal and informal talks cannot be had with the EU until Article 50.

Yeah but we can talk about fantasy stuff between ourselves, sure!

This is like the diplomatic equivalent to writing a Christmas list to Santa.

 

[Tak3n]

The UK is still in the EU. It remains so until it begins formal withdrawal procedures.

Why on earth do you think other countries are going to start engaging in trade talks with the UK right now?

What resources does the UK even have to engage in trade negotiations right now?

You keep posting nonsense and blather and it riles people up. Stop doing this.

I dont, I was saying Crab said talks could start today on trade deals, but he did not mention the EU...

He is a leadership challenger who wont win, so he is more than likely saying the populist stuff people want to hear

 

[Zaph]

Why is it only few EU countries then? And why does it exist in non EU countries like Switzerland, Norway as well as non European countries like USA, Australia, Indonesia etc?

Feel at home has existed since 2011-2012...before the clamp on roaming fee.

Because it's based on an agreement with several European networks, in response to the EU's announcement of looking into roaming fees (which was obviously years before the regulations came into effect).

It's no coincidence sectors change for the better the moment the EU announces its got its eye on them.

 

[Funky Papa]

I can't imagine what the destruction of the City would do to London's real estate market.

Oh boy.

 

[Palculator]

I don't think that's true at all. Why are you saying that? UK always had this talent.

Because as of right now, there are only 20:

An initial government review has revealed Whitehall has only 20 “active hands-on” trade negotiators, and will be up against 600 experienced trade specialists for the European commission, Sir Simon Fraser, the former permanent secretary at the Foreign Office disclosed.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...rade-talks-with-europe-says-top-civil-servant

Do you change your avatar every two hours?

12

 

[anonymous_abc]

I dont, I was saying Crab said talks could start today on trade deals, but he did not mention the EU...

He is a leadership challenger who wont win, so he is more than likely saying the populist stuff people want to hear

More populist than Boris?
iwanttoseethereceipts.gif

 

[Chinner]

EU to UK apparently: You get NOTHING
Well, not quite nothing, but:

@b_judah
Have been running around the City of London last few days. Here's an update.

Merkel and Brussels have outright already refused an EEA+ agreement that gives UK migration control, passporting and single market access.

What is passporting? All banks registered in UK have a "passport" that allows them to do business with whole EU. The City depends on it.

Base case is Berlin and Brussels plan to insist on an EEA- (i.e. a worse deal than Norway) that excludes passporting, migration controls.

This would however allow services to continue to have access to the singoe market. But not financial services. Mass migration continues.

This is formal offer. But Paris is planning a turn of cynical brilliance - that could at a stroke smite London and restore Paris to glory.

France cynicallly intends to offer Britain an EEA- that excludes passporting, but givs them a migration cap, and single market access.

This is a brilliant move: "you get less Poles, but we want your banks." It would be in France's interests to encourage UK out to get banks.

This would leave some stuff shirt like Crabb in a disastrous position: Paris and Berlin would have handed him a deal only "bad for bankers."

But the cynical French deal would be exactly the kind of cap migration, free movement for us and single market deal that the public want.

The next Tory muchkin leader would then be a hideous position: have his tax base slasshed at by loss of banks as his voters rejoice.

Paris and Frankfurt would emerge as enormous winners by ending passporting. Hugely boosting popularity of French and German leadership.

/British public will be left moronically clapping the huge triumph of a few less Poles and the punishment for "bankers" and tax base slashed.

//City analysts I met look with unbrindled distain on a Tory leadership class they think are simply muppets. No clue what's about to hit them.

Fairly genius, can see it happening and the media lapping it up.

 

[jelly]

François Hollande rules out City’s euro clearing role - French president moves to strip London of crucial stage in derivatives and equities trading

There goes your economy if this comes to pass, UK. An internal, mendicant market with little international projection and more dependant from the EU than ever.

Soon to reply

UK Government "What referendum? Don't know what your talking about, EU is great"

 

[liquidtmd]

I can't imagine what the destruction of the City would do to London's real estate market.

Oh boy.

Possible nuke area?

 

[nOoblet16]

Because it's based on an agreement with several European networks, in response to the EU's announcement of looking into roaming fees (which was obviously years before the regulations came into effect).

But the regulation isn't in effect as of yet...it'll be another year until it comes into effect.
And the proposal for this regulation was made in 2013...which was after Three had already included 7 European countries to their list of Feel at home.

More importantly, if feel at home was dependant on EU, then why does it works in non EU and countries in other continents ?

 

[HazySaiyan]

We are royally fucked. I've never known a country so willingly just fuck itself in the arse for no good reason.

 

[Zafir]

If the UK backpedals on leaving the EU, isn't this bad in terms of what voting means? For me it sounds like:

Here, decide what you want us to do (democracy).
Negative result: Ermmm, well... not that.

I suppose this is less bad compared to the consequences of leaving the EU, right?

Well I think that's basically what people are saying, and it's worth noting that Leave won by a slim margin so it's not exactly an unanimous decision by the people.

There will be protests, maybe riots if it gets ignored though.

It's why having another vote, be it referendum or through general election promises is probably a better way to go about it if the result was going to be ignored.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

EU to UK apparently: You get NOTHING
Well, not quite nothing, but:

@b_judah
Have been running around the City of London last few days. Here's an update.

Merkel and Brussels have outright already refused an EEA+ agreement that gives UK migration control, passporting and single market access.

What is passporting? All banks registered in UK have a "passport" that allows them to do business with whole EU. The City depends on it.

Base case is Berlin and Brussels plan to insist on an EEA- (i.e. a worse deal than Norway) that excludes passporting, migration controls.

This would however allow services to continue to have access to the singoe market. But not financial services. Mass migration continues.

This is formal offer. But Paris is planning a turn of cynical brilliance - that could at a stroke smite London and restore Paris to glory.

France cynicallly intends to offer Britain an EEA- that excludes passporting, but givs them a migration cap, and single market access.

This is a brilliant move: "you get less Poles, but we want your banks." It would be in France's interests to encourage UK out to get banks.

This would leave some stuff shirt like Crabb in a disastrous position: Paris and Berlin would have handed him a deal only "bad for bankers."

But the cynical French deal would be exactly the kind of cap migration, free movement for us and single market deal that the public want.

The next Tory muchkin leader would then be a hideous position: have his tax base slasshed at by loss of banks as his voters rejoice.

Paris and Frankfurt would emerge as enormous winners by ending passporting. Hugely boosting popularity of French and German leadership.

/British public will be left moronically clapping the huge triumph of a few less Poles and the punishment for "bankers" and tax base slashed.

//City analysts I met look with unbrindled distain on a Tory leadership class they think are simply muppets. No clue what's about to hit them.

It's like britain collectively pulled down their pants, bent over and said "lets get a train going"

 

[cormack12]

I'm torn. On the one hand I want to see Johnson spectacularly fail and admit he can't deliver what was promised. But I think he really wouldn't be arsed as the country burned - he'd just think he was some Nero-esque character.

May is a vile trollop, who believes she should do away with people's civil liberties and treat everyone like a criminal with zero tolerance.

Unfortunately, given the circumstances, it's clear we're headed for a period of domestic unrest and I'd say May is better placed to deal with it and blunt it with harsh measures.

Can't believe we've done this to ourselves. Can't believe people still think we're gonna crest this wave and smash down our policy across Europe in a wave of British glory.

 

[Hazzuh]

I can't imagine what the destruction of the City would do to London's real estate market.

Oh boy.

No matter what happens, London will still be too expensive for any ordinary person to live in. The indy say the property market is doing fine.

 

[Camp Freddie]

I can see this happening and people cheering.
Typical Brits English/Welsh

The French would certainly propose a cynical deal, but the Eastern EU countries would veto any deal with single market but migration caps.

I expect an EEA- deal or WTO rules to be the only choice offered by the EU, since it's the only thing that the 27 could conceivably agree on within 2 years.
If our economy looks like crashing so hard that Europe gets caught in the fireball then we might get thrown a bone like low EU contributions.
That way the deal will be "No immigration controls, but you get some of that "350 million" to spend on your NHS!"
Since BoJo focused on repatriating that "£350m", he can claim "victory".

 

[Alx]

I can't imagine what the destruction of the City would do to London's real estate market.

Oh boy.

Time to boost up tourism. How much for a night in Buckingham Palace ?

But seriously, it was obvious from the beginning that all financial places would have gone at the City's throat, it was the biggest and most exposed benefit to take from the UK.

 

[accel]

The UK is still in the EU. It remains so until it begins formal withdrawal procedures.

Why on earth do you think other countries are going to start engaging in trade talks with the UK right now?

What resources does the UK even have to engage in trade negotiations right now?

You keep posting nonsense and blather and it riles people up. Stop doing this.

(I think you are being too harsh here.)

Countries that traded with UK when it was part of EU would want to continue that trade when UK is no longer part of EU.

Some countries who wanted to free trade with UK couldn't do this when it was part of EU (example: Canada, couldn't make the deal with EU for years, last culprit I remember was Romania who wanted a deal on visas). When UK is out of EU, these countries will get their free trade with UK.

Etc.

 

[Madchad]

Well I think that's basically what people are saying, and it's worth noting that Leave won by a slim margin so it's not exactly an unanimous decision by the people.

There will be protests, maybe riots if it gets ignored though.

It's why having another vote, be it referendum or through general election promises is probably a better way to go about it if the result was going to be ignored.

More like we will turn into NI before the peace accord. Apart from it being the Unionist vs the Europhiles

 

[JonathanEx]

Fairly genius, can see it happening and the media lapping it up.

We bloody would fall for that shit, wouldn't we?

/slumps in chair

 

[avaya]

Negotiations usually have to start somewhere.

I guess so did the Treaty of Versailles

 

[Palculator]

It's like britain collectively pulled down their pants, bent over and said "lets get a train going"

Not collectively! Sturgeon is out there trying to save her people who voted responsibly!

 

[accel]

Because as of right now, there are only 20:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...rade-talks-with-europe-says-top-civil-servant

I didn't know that, thanks.

 

[Micael]

If the UK backpedals on leaving the EU, isn't this bad in terms of what voting means? For me it sounds like:

Here, decide what you want us to do (democracy).
Negative result: Ermmm, well... not that.

I suppose this is less bad compared to the consequences of leaving the EU, right?

At this point everything is a loss, if the UK leaves they will get a crappier deal than what they have now, and likely London "is dead", Scotland almost certainly ends up leaving, several companies are also likely to leave the UK, and people like Farage can spin it as both a victory and as undemocratic, which will score them some points.

If they stay their reputation within the EU is damaged, and considering how much damage this caused I quite strongly suspect any future UK says in the EU will be significantly diminished, certainly any future renegotiation's aren't going to go well, considering that the UK special treatment wasn't already particularly favored, more importantly to the UK though, if they backtrack on the referendum guys like Farage will gain an absurd amount of traction, and I can see nothing but negative things with people like him in charge.

Think the best thing for UK would be to not leave, and have someone bail them out on the decision to not pull the trigger, there was some talk of Scotland being able to do that or what ever it was, I think there is also the possibility of the queen interfering, but yeah short of there being an easy scapegoat that isn't rival political parties it's all very downhill for the UK.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

Define what you mean by "strong" for me please, especially whilst saying Norway isn't.

What are you saying man? We're Britain! Of course we're strong! We made the Beatles, at one point we owned the world, and throughout history we have made our mark. Is there any other place where we can feel united in the glorious pessimism we call Britishness?

The best footballers come here. We just smashed those damn Aussies at the game we invented! Friends came here for a whole 2 or 3 episodes! Everyone knows our gleaming red buses!

Anyone who denies our strength is just a delusional lefty who clearly wants this country to burn to the ground.

 

[EloKa]

I can't imagine what the destruction of the City would do to London's real estate market.

Oh boy.

Deutsche Bank already started negotations to sell their (atm still not used) estates in London. They bought those estates because of the planned fusion of "Deutsche Börse" und "London Stock Exchange" but it seems like they won't need those properties any time soon. Apparently they also prefer to sell fast with a loss than wait for a good deal.

Best outcome might be a crash of the real estate market for "big ass office buildings" only.