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[Hazzuh]

.

 

[jufonuk]

This is just going to turn into "psyche" by cameron

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Labour are going to draw all the wrong conclusions from this and pander to the little Englanders by doubling down on the anti-immigrant rhetoric Milliband tried and bang on about "respecting the will of the people" in this referendum even though it's going to fuck the country and break up the Union.

In my opinion the fucking has been done, the union is over. A mainstream party that wants to break up the union in a stable way will be more forward thinking than otherwise. I also imagine that any mainstream politician will be careful about anti immigrant rhetoric.

 

[Juicy Bob]

What is utterly bizarre is it's the people who campaigned for leave who are asking these things for wales. It's just shameless and shows how utter deluded even elected representatives can be.

In fairness, a lot of the constituencies that voted Leave had MPs who endorsed Remain.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

haha,as someone from Notts that's hilarious

Notts for FTW

 

[Makareu]

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/2014-2019/andriukaitis/blog/thoughts-weareseat123_en

I wonder if his unexpected exposure will lead to something. One thing the EU is lacking is recognizable faces.

 

[Calabi]

Well Cameron just nuked Corbyn.

What's with all the chatter that we could have tried to change the EU if we stayed in it?

Are you all forgetting that we literally tried that right before the referendum and Cameron came back with his tail between his legs with nothing?

They tried to reason with the EU and they didn't want to listen, they didn't want to change. The only thing that would make the EU change, or even consider change was this leave vote.

Well that's probably because they wanted to change it for their own selfish little interests.

 

[Funky Papa]

Well Cameron just nuked Corbyn.

What's with all the chatter that we could have tried to change the EU if we stayed in it?

Are you all forgetting that we literally tried that right before the referendum and Cameron came back with his tail between his legs with nothing?

They tried to reason with the EU and they didn't want to listen, they didn't want to change. The only thing that would make the EU change, or even consider change was this leave vote.

The UK had already the best deal in the EU and demanded more.

The EU agreed to keep looking into it because the EU was a valued partner. The EU is generally very willing to negotiate. By being a member state, the UK got to contribute to valuable legislation and lobby for change within the EU. That is no longer the case.

Cameron then used the Referendum as a trick card. He fucked up.

This whole mess rests solely on UK's shoulders. They were enjoying and incredibly privileged position within the EU and decided to ruin it for political gain.

 

[oti]

what is happening? why are they leaving?

 

[Zaph]

Well Cameron just nuked Corbyn.

What's with all the chatter that we could have tried to change the EU if we stayed in it?

Are you all forgetting that we literally tried that right before the referendum and Cameron came back with his tail between his legs with nothing?

They tried to reason with the EU and they didn't want to listen, they didn't want to change. The only thing that would make the EU change, or even consider change was this leave vote.

By "change" are you referring to immigration? One of the four freedoms? You really think that's going to change, or he had a chance of any movement on it?

He actually achieved benefit changes. So more concessions for a country that's full of concessions.

 

[jelly]

What is utterly bizarre is it's the people who campaigned for leave who are asking these things for wales. It's just shameless and shows how utter deluded even elected representatives can be.

I think research and facts escaped them and they just read papers and drank the kool aid like many fools. What on earth did they actually do in their job?

They should have been on all these debates and reported on the news before the vote, btw we get loads of money from the EU and it has helped. Didn't see shit from them.

 

[oti]

Well Cameron just nuked Corbyn.

What's with all the chatter that we could have tried to change the EU if we stayed in it?

Are you all forgetting that we literally tried that right before the referendum and Cameron came back with his tail between his legs with nothing?

They tried to reason with the EU and they didn't want to listen, they didn't want to change. The only thing that would make the EU change, or even consider change was this leave vote.

UK had a special deal. UK didn't deserve more. End of story.

 

[ferrasvansen]

"Our base case is that Scotland will vote for independence and institute a new currency at that point (2019)," JP Morgan economist Malcolm Barr said in a note to clients on Wednesday.

http://www.lse.co.uk/FinanceNews.as...h_independence_new_currency_now_its_base_case

Yeah cannot see an alternative unless decision is reversed. In all honesty with political parties and media changing alignment there will not the same machine to prevent it.

 

[DeadOnions]

In fairness, a lot of the constituencies that voted Leave had MPs who endorsed Remain.

Yep. My (Caerphilly) mp was for remain but still the vote was nearly 60% for leave. I honestly thought we'd vote remain.

 

[FantasticMrSnake]

We are royally fucked. I've never known a country so willingly just fuck itself in the arse for no good reason.

Did you hear about Argentina?

 

[accel]

UK had a special deal. UK didn't deserve more. End of story.

This doesn't have to be "UK didn't deserve more". If EU and UK have different views on things, it's OK. For example, it's OK to free or semi-free trade with each other, but not share the same policy on something.

 

[ferrasvansen]

Did you hear about Argentina?

Argentina will gain single market EU access now, we gifted that to them last Thursday.

 

[Juicy Bob]

Yep. My (Caerphilly) mp was for remain but still the vote was nearly 60% for leave. I honestly thought we'd vote remain.

My MP (south coast of England) sent me a letter asking me to vote Leave. He's a Tory. We went 61% Leave.

 

[Hazzuh]

What Cameron should have done is invoked article 50 and negotiated our exit and THEN had a referendum on that. I feel like remain would have walked it.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

What Cameron should have done is invoked article 50 and negotiated our exit and THEN had a referendum on that. I feel like remain would have walked it.

What...article 50 is irreversible. Cameron already had his negotiations.

 

[TatteredHat]

What Cameron should have done is invoked article 50 and negotiated our exit and THEN had a referendum on that. I feel like remain would have walked it.

Once you invoke article 50, there's no turning back, what would you have a referendum on?

 

[Izuna]

What Cameron should have done is invoked article 50 and negotiated our exit and THEN had a referendum on that. I feel like remain would have walked it.

Once you invoke it, there is no going back...

 

[More Fun To Compute]

The UK had already the best deal in the EU and demanded more.

The EU agreed to keep looking into it because the EU was a valued partner. The EU is generally very willing to negotiate. By being a member state, the UK got to contribute to valuable legislation. That is no longer the case.

Cameron then used the Referendum as a trick card. He fucked up.

This whole mess rests solely on UK's shoulders. They were enjoying and incredibly privileged position within the EU and decided to ruin it for political gain.

Cameron was elected with a slim majority and his own party used threats of rebellion to force the Referendum since while he is the leader the Tory party has been divided on this issue for many years. The Referendum wasn't a "trick card" he pulled to try and exploit other EU states in some sort of arch villain scheme especially since politically few people in the UK care about the details of EU deals and barely understand them. He was trying to keep his government together and once and for all try to silence the anti EU divide in his party.

 

[Zaph]

What Cameron should have done is invoked article 50 and negotiated our exit and THEN had a referendum on that. I feel like remain would have walked it.

a50 can't be reversed.

We would have to leave and then reapply.

 

[oti]

This doesn't have to be "UK didn't deserve more". If EU and UK have different views on things, it's OK. For example, it's OK to free or semi-free trade with each other, but not share the same policy on something.

Yeah, and that can happen. Outside of the EU. Nothing wrong about that.

 

[Juicy Bob]

Just picture how fucking depressing it will be when Article 50 is actually triggered.

Fuck me.

 

[Hazzuh]

What...article 50 is irreversible. Cameron already had his negotiations.

Once you invoke article 50, there's no turning back, what would you have a referendum on?

Once you invoke it, there is no going back...

a50 can't be reversed.

We would have to leave and then reapply.

Once that's invoked it cannot be stopped.

That isn't true. Look at the text of it. The European Council can delay a countries withdrawal (indefinitely):

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

What Cameron should have done is invoked article 50 and negotiated our exit and THEN had a referendum on that. I feel like remain would have walked it.

Once that's invoked it cannot be stopped.

 

[Funky Papa]

Cameron was elected with a slim majority and his own party used threats of rebellion to force the Referendum since while he is the leader the Tory party has been divided on this issue for many years. The Referendum wasn't a "trick card" he pulled to try and exploit other EU states in some sort of arch villain scheme especially since politically few people in the UK care about the details of EU deals and barely understand them. He was trying to keep his government together and once and for all try to silence the anti EU divide in his party.

I see it as half and half. He tried to gel the party by silencing dissent and use it for effect in Europe. And he fucking blew it.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

In fairness, a lot of the constituencies that voted Leave had MPs who endorsed Remain.

Which I understand. But in the case of wales what I've been seeing out of Wales it's the MPs that endorsed leave, now thinking "oh shit" and coming cap in hand.

 

[Izuna]

That isn't true. Look at the text of it. The European Council can delay a countries withdrawal (indefinitely):

Yeah, because they would do that... all countries would constantly agree to put the UK in limbo. What a great choice.

key word, unanimous

 

[The Friendly Monster]

That isn't true. Look at the text of it. The European Council can delay a countries withdrawal (indefinitely):

And? It would be out of the UK's hands. The whole project would collapse if it could be blackmailed so easily.

 

[Juicy Bob]

Which I understand. But in the case of wales what I've been seeing out of Wales it's the MPs that endorsed leave, now thinking "oh shit" and coming cap in hand.

Well those wankers can fuuuuuuuuckk offfffffffffffff.

 

[TatteredHat]

That isn't true. Look at the text of it. The European Council can delay a countries withdrawal (indefinitely):

Why would they do that? Not to mention a delay requires the approval of all member states. The option is built in there as a failsafe, not as a guarantee.

 

[Frankfurter]

That isn't true. Look at the text of it. The European Council can delay a countries withdrawal (indefinitely):

And you really believe that would work? Unanimously, too? Nope.

 

[Zaph]

That isn't true. Look at the text of it. The European Council can delay a countries withdrawal (indefinitely):

With unanimous agreement from all member states.

What do you think the cost would be to the UK in making sure nobody vetos? Both in what we would give up making those deals to insure support, and the economic turmoil while we get all states on board?

 

[Fantastapotamus]

but we are a strong country, we are not Norway or Switzerland

Yeah, you certainly aren't

Richest countries in the world

UK is 27

 

[EmiPrime]

In my opinion the fucking has been done, the union is over. A mainstream party that wants to break up the union in a stable way will be more forward thinking than otherwise. I also imagine that any mainstream politician will be careful about anti immigrant rhetoric.

The morning of the result there were Labour MPs on BBC News going on about listening to people on immigration, hell even Ed Milliband did and that was before any results had come in.

Labour and the Conservative Party never learn: You can't out-UKIP the UKIPs. The racists too ashamed to profess support for the BNP finally have a "respectable" (lol) party to get behind. These people are GONE, they need to stop campaigning for those votes.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I see it as half and half. He tried to gel the party by silencing dissent and use it for effect in Europe. And he fucking blew it.

He had literally no reason to start this referendum just to blackmail Europe in some sort of North Korean diplomatic trick. It's not even one quarter or one sixth never mind half.

 

[accel]

That isn't true. Look at the text of it. The European Council can delay a countries withdrawal (indefinitely):

If UK went that route and then decided to stay in the EU after negotiating a sweet deal, it'd be dependent on every single member because of the word "unanimous". If Greece or someone else decided to take advantage of that, UK would have a very tough time. It's just a bad way to go.

 

[vonStirlitz]

Here is the fix.

Negotiate a deal with the EU, on condition that if the deal cannot be agreed by referendum in the UK, the UK will remain. It will require EU consent to this. Doubtful.

Hold a second referendum with three options:

1. UK stays in a negotiated Norway model.
2. UK leaves fully.
3. UK remains in EU.

Gives the voters a chance to decide on the future, rather than leave it in the hands of the cocksplats BJ and NF (how apt their initials are).

But the beauty of it is that the leave camp are divided between 1 and 2, allowing 3 to seize the field.

 

[danowat]

Yeah, you certainly aren't

Richest countries in the world

UK is 27

Empire fantasies.

 

[Hazzuh]

I'm not really sure what anyone's problem with need the Council to agree unanimously, no one wants the UK to leave except the UK...

Once that's invoked it cannot be stopped.

No it wouldn't? The UK votes to remain and then you move on.

Once that's invoked it cannot be stopped.

The thing you are negotiating is the EXIT deal, not remain. Voting to remain is just the status quo.

 

[oti]

That isn't true. Look at the text of it. The European Council can delay a countries withdrawal (indefinitely):

That would mean the negotiations would go forever.

Come on.

 

[ferrasvansen]

Yeah, you certainly aren't

Richest countries in the world

UK is 27

After Brexit we will be lucky to be in the top 50.

 

[jelly]

In fairness, a lot of the constituencies that voted Leave had MPs who endorsed Remain.

It wasn't enough to just vote remain though. We heard absolutely nothing about Wales and the EU and while some blame can be put on the media, I think MPs not getting the word out there played a huge part. They should have stood up and made the arguments heard.

 

[liquidtmd]

Cameron was elected with a slim majority and his own party used threats of rebellion to force the Referendum since while he is the leader the Tory party has been divided on this issue for many years. The Referendum wasn't a "trick card" he pulled to try and exploit other EU states in some sort of arch villain scheme especially since politically few people in the UK care about the details of EU deals and barely understand them. He was trying to keep his government together and once and for all try to silence the anti EU divide in his party.

Yup definitely sounds like something the public should be allowed to decide on in a Yes/No choice

 

[Bony Manifesto]

The morning of the result there were Labour MPs on BBC News going on about listening to people on immigration, hell even Ed Milliband did and that was before any results had come in.

Labour and the Conservative Party never learn: You can't out-UKIP the UKIPs. The racists too ashamed to profess support for the BNP finally have a "respectable" (lol) party to get behind. These people are GONE, they need to stop campaigning for those votes.

Who should they focus their efforts on then?

 

[Funky Papa]

He had literally no reason to start this referendum just to blackmail Europe in some sort of North Korean diplomatic trick. It's not even one quarter or one sixth never mind half.

Brexit has been a tool in European politics for many years. While I don't think he wanted to play it the way he did, he freely choose to weaponize it after giving the referendum a go.

His mess. His legacy.

 

[FantasticMrSnake]

Argentina will gain single market EU access now, we gifted that to them last Thursday.

Nah, they will sink more with this.. as usual, no matter what happen in the world, that country uses it to sink itself in some way.