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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM

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M

MrHoot

Member
I'm a Swiss. Between the UK pointing at us to justify leave and the US pointing at us to justify gun ownership (both being wrong), I have this impression we are a bad influence on certain people :U
 
accel

accel

Member
vonStirlitz said:
Hold a second referendum with three options:

1. UK stays in a negotiated Norway model.
2. UK leaves fully.
3. UK remains in EU.

Gives the voters a chance to decide on the future, rather than leave it in the hands of the cocksplats BJ and NF (how apt their initials are).

But the beauty of it is that the leave camp are divided between 1 and 2, allowing 3 to seize the field.
Click to expand...

This sounds like manipulation.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
vonStirlitz said:
Hold a second referendum with three options:

1. UK stays in a negotiated Norway model.
2. UK leaves fully.
3. UK remains in EU.
Click to expand...

You can't have a 3-ways referendum, because most likely the winning choice will end up with less than 50% of the votes. The point of a referendum is to always end with an absolute majority, which makes it non questionable.

MrHoot said:
I'm a Swiss. Between the UK pointing at us to justify leave and the US pointing at us to justify gun ownership (both being wrong), I have this impression we are a bad influence on certain people :U
Click to expand...

Yeah, you guys are also frequently used as an example of direct democracy... but now we have a counter-example with UK, at least.
 
D

Deleted member 13876

Unconfirmed Member
vonStirlitz said:
Here is the fix.

Negotiate a deal with the EU, on condition that if the deal cannot be agreed by referendum in the UK, the UK will remain. It will require EU consent to this. Doubtful.

Hold a second referendum with three options:

1. UK stays in a negotiated Norway model.
2. UK leaves fully.
3. UK remains in EU.

Gives the voters a chance to decide on the future, rather than leave it in the hands of the cocksplats BJ and NF (how apt their initials are).

But the beauty of it is that the leave camp are divided between 1 and 2, allowing 3 to seize the field.
Click to expand...

thats-good.gif
 
M

Maledict

Member
Alx said:
You can't have a 3-ways referendum, because most likely the winning choice will end up with less than 50% of the votes. The point of a referendum is to always end with an absolute majority, which makes it non questionable.
Click to expand...

Tell that to the australian referendum on keeping the monarchy... ;-)
 
J

Juicy Bob

Member
Funky Papa said:
Brexit has been a tool in the European politics for many years. While I don't think he wanted to play it the way he did, he freely choose to weaponize it after giving the referendum a go.

His mess. His legacy.
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Cameron is also young enough to see the impact of this referendum change the country's future for many decades to come and see a generation of Britons grow up learning about how his fuck up is responsible for the problems they will face.
 
K

King_Moc

Banned
Juicy Bob said:
Cameron is also young enough to see the impact of this referendum change the country's future for many decades to come and see a generation of Britons grow up learning about how his fuck up is responsible for the problems they will face.
Click to expand...

He's also incredibly privileged and will probably just go and live abroad.
 
J

Joni

Member
Souldestroyer Reborn said:
What's with all the chatter that we could have tried to change the EU if we stayed in it? Are you all forgetting that we literally tried that right before the referendum and Cameron came back with his tail between his legs with nothing?
Click to expand...

He didn't try to change the European Union. He tried to negotiate a deal for the United Kingdom. There is a major difference between those two.
 
I

IdreamofHIME

Member
Bony Manifesto said:
Who should they focus their efforts on then?
Click to expand...


Labour should begin by asking why a party who's manifesto for 35 years was based on Scottish independence and who lost an In/Out referendum just won two elections in two years and destroyed Labours chances of power on a UK level.

It definitely isn't about immigration up here.
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
BBC PMQ Subtitling team just seem to suggest Cameron said "The 27 member states are meeting this morning to prepare bears"

We're in trouble
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
David Cameron

No negotiation until we activate article 50 does 'not' exclude discussion....

so negotiation by the back door then
 
E

EdwardTeach

Member
Phantast2k said:
EU to UK apparently: You get NOTHING
Well, not quite nothing, but:

@b_judah
Have been running around the City of London last few days. Here's an update.

Merkel and Brussels have outright already refused an EEA+ agreement that gives UK migration control, passporting and single market access.

What is passporting? All banks registered in UK have a "passport" that allows them to do business with whole EU. The City depends on it.

Base case is Berlin and Brussels plan to insist on an EEA- (i.e. a worse deal than Norway) that excludes passporting, migration controls.

This would however allow services to continue to have access to the singoe market. But not financial services. Mass migration continues.

This is formal offer. But Paris is planning a turn of cynical brilliance - that could at a stroke smite London and restore Paris to glory.

France cynicallly intends to offer Britain an EEA- that excludes passporting, but givs them a migration cap, and single market access.

This is a brilliant move: "you get less Poles, but we want your banks." It would be in France's interests to encourage UK out to get banks.

This would leave some stuff shirt like Crabb in a disastrous position: Paris and Berlin would have handed him a deal only "bad for bankers."

But the cynical French deal would be exactly the kind of cap migration, free movement for us and single market deal that the public want.

The next Tory muchkin leader would then be a hideous position: have his tax base slasshed at by loss of banks as his voters rejoice.

Paris and Frankfurt would emerge as enormous winners by ending passporting. Hugely boosting popularity of French and German leadership.

/British public will be left moronically clapping the huge triumph of a few less Poles and the punishment for "bankers" and tax base slashed.

//City analysts I met look with unbrindled distain on a Tory leadership class they think are simply muppets. No clue what's about to hit them.
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That sounds terrifying, especially the "French offer ". The idiot plebs will be delighted to hit the bankers if we can kick out the foreigners, not realising that they have irreversibly scuttled our economy. Say hello to endless austerity.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
vonStirlitz said:
Negotiate a deal with the EU, on condition that if the deal cannot be agreed by referendum in the UK, the UK will remain. It will require EU consent to this. Doubtful.

Hold a second referendum with three options:

1. UK stays in a negotiated Norway model.
2. UK leaves fully.
3. UK remains in EU.
Click to expand...
Referenda are typically binary.

Also, there's no mechanism for this in the EU. The rest of the EU are not going to negotiate the terms of exit before the UK formally signals your exit.
 
O

oti

Banned
Tak3n said:
David Cameron

No negotiation until we activate article 50 does 'not' exclude discussion....

so negotiation by the back door then
Click to expand...

I don't know if I should laugh about this or cry. You don't seem to grasp this situation at all.

ferrasvansen said:
In the end it won't be his choice. He knows Scotland is going to leave eventually he just is trying to deflect the blame away from himself.
Click to expand...

Of course he'd smack down Scotland right now. Every UK PM would do that.
 
M

More Fun To Compute

Member
Funky Papa said:
Brexit has been a tool in European politics for many years. While I don't think he wanted to play it the way he did, he freely choose to weaponize it after giving the referendum a go.

His mess. His legacy.
Click to expand...

I think the Europe simply didn't understand how precarious the political situation in the UK was and assumed he was making too much of a big deal out of his problems just to get a better deal. It's a "cart before the horse" sort of error in identifying the problem that you have to deal with.
 
J

Joni

Member
Tak3n said:
David Cameron

No negotiation until we activate article 50 does 'not' exclude discussion....

so negotiation by the back door then
Click to expand...

Europe is at the moment negotiating the independent Scotland issue. That should tell what Europe thinks on Cameron.
 
E

EmiPrime

Member
Bony Manifesto said:
Who should they focus their efforts on then?
Click to expand...

I would like Labour to rebrand themselves as Pro-European centrists. 48% voted to Remain after all.

Worth mentioning that there are a lot of lifelong Tory voters who are livid right now because of Cameron's failed gambit to get the party under control who are now up for grabs. They would vote for a Blair-esque Labour party.

Maybe David Milliband can be persuaded to return to British politics.
 
F

ferrasvansen

Member
EmiPrime said:
I would like Labour to rebrand themselves as Pro-European centrists. 48% voted to Remain after all.

Worth mentioning that there are a lot of lifelong Tory voters who are livid right now because of Cameron's failed gambit to get the party under control who are now up for grabs. They would vote for a Blair-esque Labour party.

Maybe David Milliband can be persuaded to return to British politics.
Click to expand...


Yeah that 48% have nowhere to go just now. Was watching politics today and they recognised Labour have an opportunity here to pretty much get a huge boost for next election, if they sort out leadership. The 2nd referendum petition alone is potentially a goldmine of support.
 
KonradLaw

KonradLaw

Member
Souldestroyer Reborn said:
Well Cameron just nuked Corbyn.

What's with all the chatter that we could have tried to change the EU if we stayed in it?

Are you all forgetting that we literally tried that right before the referendum and Cameron came back with his tail between his legs with nothing?

They tried to reason with the EU and they didn't want to listen, they didn't want to change. The only thing that would make the EU change, or even consider change was this leave vote.
Click to expand...
Ehh..but Cameron did get his deal and that was ON TOP of already the vastly superior deal UK had with EU in the first place.
 
accel

accel

Member
Joni said:
With Sturgeon.
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Well, then that's not negotiating, that's just words of support (not that there's anything wrong with that). Scotland has to have a referendum to get out of UK, and they have to get Westminster's permission for that for one thing.
 
O

oti

Banned
FWIW Cameron is doing the best he can right now. As in staying calm. Of course all he's saying "well, not my problem" but his tone is better than "PANIC!"

Of course this is mostly his mistake but let's keep looking forward.
 
M

Metal B

Member
More Fun To Compute said:
I think the Europe simply didn't understand how precarious the political situation in the UK was and assumed he was making too much of a big deal out of his problems just to get a better deal. It's a "cart before the horse" sort of error in identifying the problem that you have to deal with.
Click to expand...
If you constantly cry "wolf", people start not believing you anymore.
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
Lego Boss said:
Did this fucktard ACTUALLY say this?

Gulag for the wrong people. I hope that the Europeans don't think that he represents the views of most of the UK.
Click to expand...

yes, nearly spat my coffee out, it was truly a great piece of theatre, Farage literally dis engaged any filter in his head and went for it
 
Z

Zaph

Member
EmiPrime said:
I would like Labour to rebrand themselves as Pro-European centrists. 48% voted to Remain after all.

Worth mentioning that there are a lot of lifelong Tory voters who are livid right now because of Cameron's failed gambit to get the party under control who are now up for grabs. They would vote for a Blair-esque Labour party.

Maybe David Milliband can be persuaded to return to British politics.
Click to expand...

Yup. I don't care if Labour is forever slightly more Right, we need a centrist party now - we don't have the luxury of anything Leftist until this is well and truly over. If they get their shit together and send a clear message, the City will throw money at them.

But to pull this off Labour needs to be absolutely cut-throat, and I doubt they've got it in them.
 
B

besada

Banned
Tak3n said:
Well being negative solves nothing
Click to expand...

That's not actually true. If the situation is negative, accepting that gives you a place to start working. It's when you are totally disconnected from reality, and keep insisting that everything's fine while your house is burning down, that everything goes pear shaped.
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
Rektash said:
Neither does living in the clouds.
Click to expand...

never been in the clouds, at all, I said right from the get go, we are in for a tough time (20 years was my guess)

but I dont want to open wounds again as a mod told me to stop posting as people were getting riled up, so dont want a ban for going over old ground
 
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