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[Condom]

If eu say Scotland had a right to remain then so to must London

I don't want a city in my EU. Especially not London which will just leach all financial institutions.

 

[gngf123]

indeed, but if anything has taught us, we the UK expect special treatment, it has been discussed plenty that we all ready get huge concessions and we still voted to leave...

you are thinking logically, you have to think like a leave voter

We expect special treatment, but that is entirely our own fault. We kept on being told we are "nothing like Norway/Switzerland" and we "deserve better treatment" when the reality is we really aren't the power we used to be and an EEA type agreement is probably about the best we can possibly hope for.

The EU holds the bulk of the power in these negotiations, not us.

 

[Madchad]

It's "football", not "soccer". No wonder you guys suck when you modeled yourself after Americans.

Savage lol

 

[oti]

If eu say Scotland had a right to remain then so to must London

What, you are saying the EU should support the capitol of a sovereign nation to become independent? That would mean war.

 

[Auctopus]

From the leave.eu mailing list

"poor Jo Cox" couldn't have sounded any more sarcastic.

 

[PJV3]

27% of Britons say the UK should try to reverse the referendum decision and stay in the EU.
(via YouGov)

Not really much of a basis for the Lib Dems to rebuild on this.

Yeah, it's madness just to dismiss the result. A genuine attempt at making it workable and being open with people is the only way forward. That's the best way to possibly convince people to change course later.

 

[Funky Papa]

indeed, but if anything has taught us, we the UK expect special treatment, it has been discussed plenty that we all ready get huge concessions and we still voted to leave...

you are thinking logically, you have to think like a leave voter

Your expectations mean squat in the face of the EU wanting the best possible deal for them and having been ready for this mess to explode for months.

The UK has very little to respond to EU's proposals. They are the ones holding all the cards. They could literally throw the country into perpetual political and financial crisis if they pleased.

The best deal the UK will get will be the one that isn't one-sided enough to ruin the UK's economy so bad it has as negative impact on the EU. Paris absolutely wants its pound of flesh.

 

[SKINNER!]

If eu say Scotland had a right to remain then so to must London

But London is not a country with its own government.

Exactly. Go on London. Emancipate yourself from the United Kingdom and be one with the European Union. I dare ya!

EDIT: and get rid of that monarchy while you're at it.

 

[ISWThunder]

While GAF applaud the hard line the EU now seem to be taking, remember it is a double edge sword, the more you push, the greater risk of a push back, the EU (if they want the UK to remain) need to be firm but fair... so far we have had a series of senior politicians from the Tories say Immigration and Trade...

EU....Nope.

So you have a situation where the politicians can turn round and say to the people of the UK, look we keep trying and look what the EU are trying to do, they are trying to punish us for exercising our democratic right....

Dont think that leave voters wont lap that up, they will....inc France right wing (elections next year)

The problem is, the UK have painted both sides into a corner. It's not just about punishment. The EU has drawn up very specific operating rules for access to their market. Allowing one country to negotiate around those core rules puts the entire system at risk.

The Leavers are dead set against current immigration policies while the EU is set on free movement. Either one side must blink or there is no path for free access to the EU market.

The longer it plays out, the worse off both sides will be. But from an outside perspective, the UK appears disorganized and fractured without any strong leaders looking to step up. As that trend continues, the UK will struggle to negotiate from a position of strength while the EU has the entirety of their membership to help cushion the blow.

 

[DerangedHermit]

Are you saying we should just lie so that people vote the way we want?

I don't mean that to sound snide, that just seems to be what your recent posts are getting at

He's a Leave supporter so ... yes.

 

[Tak3n]

What punishment? I think you're absolutley fucking deluded. There's options on the table where we stay in the EU where we always had a special deal, leave and keep asccess to the single market in the EEA and have the same deal as everyone else because that makes the most sense, or decide to go away from that. There's no punishment here, it's not like "You'll be in the EEA if you beg", it's that access to the EEA has obligations, which we should adhere to.

It's no wonder they want to get rid of us as soon as possible. Sure, trade and shit, but we just cry until we get our way and then blame the very union that gave us all that. That has nothing to do with "exercising democratic rights" or whatever absolute bullshit you want to try and spin this into. We're in as we are now, EEA, or get some magic negotiator that sprinles fairy dust on everyone to allow us to remove freedom of movement, keep the banking passport and have full access to the single market. Also we all get a free pint from Angela Merkels own funds as a "Cheers mate, you really can have it all!".

I am thinking forward, you think the press and Goverment won spin things? of course it is not punishment, does not mean it wont be sold as such in the media

 

[8bit]

I'd still like to know what Nicola Sturgeon's plan for Scotland is considering the arse fell out of the oil market five minutes after they voted for stay.

If you think leaving the EU is bad imagine what leaving the EU and the UK would do.

Oil was considered a bonus resource, not the crux of the argument. Scotland does have other resources.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

My GF briefly has access to German citizenship but unless I read it wrong that goes kaput when her father dies which is probably not very far off as he's not well, which in turn means trying to start that process right now would be incredibly difficult too. I don't have any options for citizenship myself. Outside of that, I think moving to the other nations would only leave us wondering what happens down the line to the expats and even then while benefits are not restricted to immigrants, we'd still be subject to whatever happens to the UK as they'd where the benefits are claimed.

From what I can work out the only way to assure her financial stability would be German Citizenship which is just something we can't try to work on right now.

I'm pursuing German citizenship myself and living in Berlin, a fantastic multicultural city, where not speaking German immediately is no problem to a high quality of life. I can't speak to what your GFs benefit rights would be here, but I can say it's definitely something you might want to have a look into. http://www.toytowngermany.com/ is a useful resource and place to ask things. If there's anything else I might be able to help with don't hesitate to message me.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Exactly. Go on London. Emancipate yourself from the United Kingdom and be one with the European Union. I dare ya!

EDIT: and get rid of that monarchy while you're at it.

If we're being honest, London's political atmosphere is as different from the rUK's as Scotland is, if not more. The only thing separating (heh) London from Scotland is that once upon a time Scotland was independent and has that historical fact to cling to. I imagine the number of Londoners who chose to identify as Londoners and not English is growing by the day,

 

[Zaph]

27% of Britons say the UK should try to reverse the referendum decision and stay in the EU.
(via YouGov)

Not really much of a basis for the Lib Dems to rebuild on this.

We've barely seen the potential fall out of Brexit and already a quarter of those polled think we should completely ignore a democratic process.

I'd say that's a pretty significant sentiment that will grow.

I don't want a city in my EU. Especially not London which will just leach all financial institutions.

But we have a lot of coke and know how to party

Please reconsider

Sincerely,
London xx

 

[nOoblet16]

It has the London Assembly which admittedly has less power than the Scottish Parliament

This is like Kingdom of the North ruled by Starks asking for Independence from Westeros vs Kings Landing (London)/Crownlands (London region) asking for Independence from Westeros.

 

[Nivash]

From the leave.eu mailing list

Spoiler

That last paragraph is insane in how self-contradicting it is. "We're doing great, the pound is rising! We're doing great, the falling pound helps Rolls-Royce!"

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I don't want a city in my EU. Especially not London which will just leach all financial institutions.

Ever heard of Luxembourg.

 

[Ashes]

Oil was considered a bonus resource, not the crux of the argument. Scotland does have other resources.

A bonus resource? It was very much front and centre.

 

[jufonuk]

I don't want a city in my EU. Especially not London which will just leach all financial institutions.

As someone who voted to remain from the U.K. , I want to have freedom of movement in Europe to live and work and retire. I have a French wife who works in a uk university funded by eu projects . I live just outside of London now , but work right by London Bridge .

London almost kept the UK in the EU that should count just as much so in fact should all the other towns that wanted to remain. And if London was just the size of the M25 boundary that would be a mini EU city state .

 

[D4Danger]

Oil was considered a bonus resource, not the crux of the argument. Scotland does have other resources.

I know I'm not being dismissive. Scotland would probably be a lot better off without the rest of the UK dragging it down I just want to know if they have answers to the indyref questions from two years ago. People were unconvinced then and voted to stay I just wonder if there's a plan or if they'll play off the EU reaction and get it done while people are still raw.

 

[Camp Freddie]

|OUT 3| Volkswagen über alles

|OUT 3| Deal or no deal

 

[jufonuk]

|OUT 3| Deal or no deal

OUT 3 . The conspiracy is real.

 

[ferrasvansen]

I know I'm not being dismissive. Scotland would probably be a lot better off without the rest of the UK dragging it down I just want to know if they have answers to the indyref questions from two years ago. People were unconvinced then and voted to stay.

For me it was never the oil, for me it was the idea of Scotland being out of Europe that decided my vote. We have a large pool of skilled and educated workers in many fields so economy shouldn't ever be an issue.

 

[dumbo]

Where the fuck did this "We've had enough of listening to experts" nonsense come from? That's something I'd hear on Fox News in the US; not here. How did England become as goddamn thick as the yanks?

Well, this Gove interview...

'I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts from organisations with acronyms saying they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong.
'I am glad that all these organisations are not on my side.'

This one was also a bit hilarious.

"We have to be careful about historical comparisons, but Albert Einstein during the 1930s was denounced by the German authorities for being wrong and his theories were denounced, and one of the reasons of course he was denounced was because he was Jewish.

"They got 100 German scientists in the pay of the government to say that he was wrong and Einstein said: 'Look, if I was wrong, one would have been enough.''

"The truth is that if you look at the quality of the analysis, if you look at the facts on the ground, you can come to an appropriate conclusion.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

For me it was never the oil, for me it was the idea of Scotland being out of Europe that decided my vote. We have a large pool of skilled and educated workers in many fields so economy shouldn't ever be an issue.

Scotland's out either way now, though. You'll have to rejoin under Article 49, which means accepting the Euro and so on.

 

[nOoblet16]

As someone who vote to remain from the U.K. , I want to have freedom of movement in Europe to live and work and retire. I have a French wife who works in a uk university funded by eu projects . I live just outside of London now , but work right by London Bridge .

London almost kept the UK in the EU that should count just as much so in fact should all the other towns that wanted to remain

Your wife won't get deported ever even if UK loses freedom of movement which is just not happening. Plus because of your wife I am pretty sure you can get something out if the French government.

Also research projects might be unaffected depending on research bodies, for instance even countries like Israel receive EU funding. Atleast that's what my PhD supervisor told me.

 

[Joni]

I don't want a city in my EU. Especially not London which will just leach all financial institutions.

Monaco, Liechtenstein, Andorra, Vatican, San Marino and Malta.

 

[ferrasvansen]

Scotland's out either way now, though. You'll have to rejoin under Article 49, which means accepting the Euro and so on.

Yeah but it wasn't our choice to leave it was England's. Yeah joining the Euro has no fear for me, I suspect by then the EU economy will benefit from the UK's demise .

 

[D4Danger]

For me it was never the oil, for me it was the idea of Scotland being out of Europe that decided my vote. We have a large pool of skilled and educated workers in many fields so economy shouldn't ever be an issue.

why isn't this ever considered a valid argument for the rest of the UK? (note: voted remain)

 

[jufonuk]

Your wife won't get deported ever even if UK loses freedom of movement which is just not happening. Plus because of your wife I am pretty sure you can get something out if the French government.

Also research projects might be unaffected depending on research bodies, for instance even countries like Israel receive EU funding. Atleast that's what my PhD supervisor told me.

Even If they don't stop freedom of movent I still don't want us out the EU

Two points though

One:

the EU should reem farage. The Tories and all who perpetrated the lies that led to this.

Cameron and Boris most of all for this stupid power play that caused this

Not the people who wanted to stay .

Two I am sure the EU will offer us a deal that is mutually beneficial .

My wife works with people all over the EU they emailed the uni and said as it stands it doesn't matter the UK uni will be consulted in all bids regardless they haven't stopped working with them. I believe this cooperative spirit will work out in the end who ever is leader needs to work with the EU

 

[Joni]

Scotland's out either way now, though. You'll have to rejoin under Article 49, which means accepting the Euro and so on.

You know, it is really easy for a country to never make the switch. But it would be a bad idea. I disliked going to Sweden and Denmark because of it.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

While GAF applaud the hard line the EU now seem to be taking, remember it is a double edge sword, the more you push, the greater risk of a push back, the EU (if they want the UK to remain) need to be firm but fair... so far we have had a series of senior politicians from the Tories say Immigration and Trade...

EU....Nope.

So you have a situation where the politicians can turn round and say to the people of the UK, look we keep trying and look what the EU are trying to do, they are trying to punish us for exercising our democratic right....

Dont think that leave voters wont lap that up, they will....inc France right wing (elections next year)

 

[Kanhir]

|OUT 3| Deal or no deal

|OUT3| But what about second Brexit?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

You know, it is really easy for a country to never make the switch. But it would be a bad idea. I disliked going to Sweden and Denmark because of it.

It isn't any more. They shut the loophole in, uh, 2007?

 

[NekoFever]

"poor Jo Cox" couldn't have sounded any more sarcastic.

Farage did say victory was achieved "without a bullet being fired" in his speech, let's not forget.

 

[Meadows]

avaya has been banned.

I fully expect the FTSE 250 to fall 400 points on the news.

 

[*Splinter]

Would the euro be seen as a downside to Scots?

Farage did say victory was achieved "without a bullet being fired" in his speech, let's not forget.

Hmm, nah I'd rather forget that

 

[GamingKaiju]

Me and my brother have been having a bit of a fall out on the situation ATM.

He's a leaver and I'm a in'ie

This is my last mail I sent to him outlining my view on the situation and why we must stay in.

This is might be a long read from yesterday, please digest it. This is how I see it and my point of view. I respect you opinion and vote 😊

I can’t comment on the stuff on the 70’s but during WW2 Churchill made a deal with the US that the British will release all colonies from their rule (outside of the UK) that is how the “Special Relationship” started. That is 100% fact it is there on the internet and on WW2 in colour. WW2 started because the finical repercussions we put on them destroyed them. That’s why I was drawing parallels to WW1 and WW2 on Sunday. Isolating ourselves will not help anyone which is what we are doing by saying f*** you to Europe and the world.

Thatcher destroyed all the unions herself. During the 08 crisis why did the EU worry over them and not care about us? Because we have our own currency and therefore have to sort it ourselves, everything political with the UK+EU worked very well together.

Look I’m not saying that the EU is all roses I know it’s slow and very bureaucratic. But the alternative is far worse. If we leave the EU after years of negotiating we would still have to accept a EEA deal which still includes the free movement of people over Europe we would have to pay more than we do now (after rebates that is) and we would still have to allow EU regs that come from Brussels. So what would we gain? Oh that’s right we still can’t control our own borders and we get to pay more for it YAY!

The EU haven’t done anything for us because we constantly moan and send f*** tards like Farage over there as our representatives and we wonder why the EU hates us ATM and doesn’t take us seriously.

If we leave the EU, Scotland will go within 5-10 years. 10 years later Ireland will unify and there gone. Which leave wales that could apply for EU membership and live of the subsidy that the EU hands out. Leaving little England do you think the banks are going to stay in a country that is tearing itself apart politically and destroying our very own union that has stood for 500 years? I don’t think so... boom! You’re out of a job. Think about that.

The EU also gives us £7 Billion a year in medical research that money is been used to develop medicine for cancer and MS along with loads of other diseases (This is important to me). The £350 mil a week claim that Farage and Co made will have to be used to plug the grapping holes in our economy so no new hospitals. What about education? The EU pump a lot of money into education especially in poorer areas the UK govt don’t!

We are not the political heavy weight we were in the 70’s 80’s 90’s. It is a new world with even bigger fish now and the UK is very small fish in a huge pond. We have to be forward thinking not looking backwards our future and my kid’s future is in the EU. We need to get rid of this elitist attitude we have about ourselves and work with the EU and be 100% in.
We have a pretty sweet deal with the EU right now why rock the boat.

Did you know that Racist attacks have spiked since the ref and you really want to align yourself politically with scum that have swastika tattoos?

Did you see the huge Pro-EU Demo outside Westminster last night? I’m one of the 48 million that wants in and we will not stop until this whole thing is stopped even if it includes electing a new govt with a mandate to stop Art50.

Cameron is an idiot but his resignation is binding time on Art50.

I’m an English Citizen
I’m a United Kingdom Citizen
I’m a European Citizen

And I’m proud of that fact!

We must stay in!

 

[rtcn63]

|OUT 3| London, U K?

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Angela Eagle would be a below par leader.

Two below.

 

[MrHoot]

eh, he's not entirely wrong in the crux of his message

The best play for EU right now is not to be a big authoritarian force as to not feed into the far-right narrative. They need to be collaborative and find arrangements (and they can still be firm about their position).

The EU has an image problem it needs to improve, wether we like it or not, and the best play it can do is to show everyone is that they're a positive force, not a negative one.

 

[Meadows]

Pound is up to £1.35 on the dollar.

Not saying it's great like, just seems to have stabilised in the last couple of days.

 

[nOoblet16]

|OUT 3| London, U K?

|OT3| E. U. K. ?

 

[ahoyhoy]

How come they don't refer to the two sides of this as innies and outies?

That way we can all be naval gazing.

 

[Meadows]

Angela Eagle would be dire. She starting crying on national radio the other day because she felt bad for sacking off Corbyn.

I realise she may be a good person, but is this who we want getting the best deal for the working people in the next two years? Someone who cries on national radio because they turned their back on the leader? Come on.

 

[Funky Papa]

eh, he's not entirely wrong in the crux of his message

The best play for EU right now is not to be a big authoritarian force as to not feed into the far-right narrative. They need to be collaborative and find arrangements (and they can still be firm about their position).

The EU has an image problem it needs to improve and the best play it can do is to show everyone is that they're a positive force, not a negative one.

The EU will have another different problem if it allows the UK to have a positive deal after abandoning a Union in which remained with an overtly unique and positive status. European powerplayers will be facing their own elections soon enough, meaning that they have even less incentives to go soft on the UK.

The UK is going to get the roughest deal the EU can afford without damaging its own interests and it will be completely on the Leave camp. It's just business now.

 

[Joni]

It isn't any more. They shut the loophole in, uh, 2007?

There is still no limit for acceptance of ERMII, which is how Sweden manages to stay out.

 

[MrHoot]

The EU will have another different problem if it allows the UK to have a positive deal after abandoning a Union in which remained with an overtly unique and positive status.

The UK is going to get the roughest deal the EU can afford without damaging its own interests and it will be completely on the Leave camp.

Absolutely, which is why I maintain EU should stay firm. But at least in appearances should not openly antagonize and try to play matchmaker with scotland until scotland has its referendum

 

[shinra-bansho]

There's nothing authoritarian about not giving the UK everything they want because it thinks it's special when it's not.