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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM

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K

klonere

Banned
CmIKh36XIAAt4Dr.jpg


Let Us Cling Together.
 
T

Tyaren

Member
Regarding the discussion to grant a cap on immigration but without the EU passport for the City of London:
Why would there be a need for any concession towards the UK? Having left the EU it has no claims whatsoever. That's not the EU being nasty and unfair but being sensible and perfectly fair. Otherwise any non-EU country could ask for the same. The Brexiteers were eyeing a Norway-model, they can get a Norway-model: UK will have to put up with free movement and it will additionally kiss the EU-passport for the City goodbye.
Also, immigration is not just a big topic in the UK, but also in most other EU countries. If they see the UK gets an immigration cap with full access to the single market they would gladly swap. Most don't have a strong banking capital so loosing the EU passport for their financial market would mean nothing to them.
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
Liam Fox to stand for Tory leader

he is a strong right winger, and will support either May or Crab if he does not make it all the way
 
C

Crumpo

Member
Zaph said:
Look at us on this forum. There are so many people here happy to explain things, in depth, one-to-one with Leavers and provide them with links and research to support points, yet there's still no getting through to them. Remain didn't stand a chance with these people.

Unfortunately Murdoch's media has done a number on this country, and the only way to snap people out of it is to let them feel the pain temporarily. I just hope enough pain can be brought about before the decision is irreversible.
Click to expand...

This has been the source of my despair recently. If we can't get through to the GAFers' logically then we have no chance with the rest of the UK.
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
call_kotaku said:
In a way my false impression of the UK from popular British media just reinforces how "out of touch" one half of the population is from the other. I'd assumed Jeremy Clarkson was some radical right wing caricature but it turns out he's fairly moderate compared to a large swathe of the country. A large part of the country does talk about making Britain great again or good vs bad immigrants and whatnot, when for a long time I'd assumed British people were more progressive because they've already had their adventure with Empire and moved on.

I assumed the Daily Mail was some sort of sarcastic British prank on the rest of the world, not a legitimate world view for half the population.
Click to expand...


Their online paper section is hugely popular, some have called it porn though

Mail Online's average daily unique browser figure leapt by a shade under 20% to nearly 11.8 million.
Click to expand...
 
O

ogbg

Member
Tyaren said:
Regarding the discussion to grant a cap on immigration but without the EU passport for the City of London:
Why would there be a need for any concession towards the UK? Having left the EU it has no claims whatsoever. That's not the EU being nasty and unfair but being sensible and perfectly fair. Otherwise any non-EU country could ask for the same. The Brexiteers were eyeing a Norway-model, they can get a Norway-model: UK will have to put up with free movement and it will additionally kiss the EU-passport for the City goodbye.
Also, immigration is not just a big topic in the UK, but also in most other EU countries. If they see the UK gets an immigration cap with full access to the single market they would gladly swap. Most don't have a strong banking capital so loosing the EU passport for their financial market would mean nothing to them.
Click to expand...

Presumably there is some reason why London has become a financial centre in the first place and that reason would be a pressure to maintain it. I'm not saying that means it would happen but there will be some force in that direction. How that will fare against all the thousands of other forces pulling in different directions nobody can know.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
jelly said:
Christ and there is Jeremy Hunt who is a homoeopathy nut job and Health Secretary, May who thinks people deserve no rights and are guilty by default, then there is Boris. Dear oh dear.

Time machine anyone!
Click to expand...


I watched John Smith on question time in 92 yesterday, very soothing.
 
accel

accel

Member
Tyaren said:
Regarding the discussion to grant a cap on immigration but without the EU passport for the City of London:
Why would there be a need for any concession towards the UK? Having left the EU it has no claims whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Because the UK is the biggest export market for the EU and that makes the EU interested in the UK. Yes, the UK is also interested in accessing the EU, and even more so than the other way around, but the interest is mutual. That's grounds for having some kind of a deal on the terms that seem fine to both sides. Nobody owes anybody anything, it's just mutual interest, the usual.
 
P

Pandy

Member
knavish said:
Iron Bru doesn't count as a resource :)
Click to expand...
A.G. Barr (from Wikipedia):

Revenue £260.9 million (2015)[1]
Operating income £42.1 million (2015)[1]
Net income £30.0 million (2015)[1]
Number of employees 930 (2015)[2]

;)
Mr. Sam said:
You mean Stephen Crabb, the man who claimed homosexuality could be "cured"? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...homophobic-david-cameron-brexit-a7109211.html

Great guy.
Click to expand...

I knew I didn't like him from something, but couldn't remember what. Thought I was just having 'smug tory git' bias.
 
S

Steve.1981

Unconfirmed Member
call_kotaku said:
I assumed the Daily Mail was some sort of sarcastic British prank on the rest of the world, not a legitimate world view for half the population.
Click to expand...

It's the most biased, hateful rag ever created in the history of printed word. It saddens me to no end that so many people read it, and worse, believe what they read.

Today I argued with a brick wall that told me he supports leaving the EU and was right to vote leave because now we'll maybe get Scottish independence, which he also supports.

He's behind Nicola Sturgeon every step of the way, apparently.

I have no argument left in me for these idiots.
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
Crumpo said:
This has been the source of my despair recently. If we can't get through to the GAFers' logically then we have no chance with the rest of the UK.
Click to expand...

I don't follow, you don't have to pass an exam to post on this website...

Also, I think a point may be flying over your and Zaph's heads here (and in fact everyone who keeps quoting that Gove "people have had enough of experts" line): Leavers don't want things explained to them. They want to be listened to.
 
S

SymbiantXenos

Member
Steve.1981 said:
It's the most biased, hateful rag ever created in the history of printed word. It saddens me to no end that so many people read it, and worse, believe what they read.

Today I argued with a brick wall that told me he supports leaving the EU and was right to vote leave because now we'll maybe get Scottish independence, which he also supports.

He's behind Nicola Sturgeon every step of the way, apparently.

I have no argument left in me for these idiots.
Click to expand...

Voted to leaves eu

Leaves eu

Votes for Scottish Independence

Rejoins eu

#logic
 
J

jelly

Member
Zaph said:
XsDsJWx.jpg
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There was footage of that on the BBC last night and other odd stuff like a group photo when he was made leader or something, he didn't know how to stand for a bloody group picture! Awkward as fuck. He doesn't even like the limelight and is the leader ffs.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
blackcrane said:
It's a bit simplistic, don't you think? I mean, if UK was out of EU and have outperformed it, we could be talking about how UK was "obviously" going to do that based on it being in a unique position of sitting between the EU and the Americas, etc. The things you say might be true, but I am not convinced they are the whole story at all, especially when I see how backwards bureaucracies are.
Click to expand...
I don't particularly see how noting the particulars of individual economies' structures and sectors is a more simplistic view of economic growth disparity than attribution to nondescript "bureaucracy". The UK underwent Thatchernomic reforms at the same time as Reagan, Hawke/Keating, Richardson et al. liberalised markets in their respective countries. It transitioned to a service economy as global forces drove the decline of manufacturing.

I'm not entirely sure what this vision of the UK outside the EU over the last two decades is supposed to have looked like. The world driving Rolls Royces as we all browse GAF on our British designed and manufactured smartphones while searching Britoogle. Because of all the red tape being shred to ribbons.
 
C

Crumpo

Member
QuicheFontaine said:
I don't follow, you don't have to pass an exam to post on this website...

Also, I think a point may be flying over your and Zaph's heads here (and in fact everyone who keeps quoting that Gove "people have had enough of experts" line): Leavers don't want things explained to them. They want to be listened to.
Click to expand...

Moderation and vetting is much more heavy on GAF than other internet outlets but I take your point on intelligence.

I have listened to leavers and tried to talk to them about their grievances; I havent just said "durr its not about immigrants really". Beyond one reply no-one responded to my responses to them. People just want to shout, not discuss.
 
F

ferrasvansen

Member
PJV3 said:
Yeah , he probably wouldn't have left communities out to dry like Tony and Co did.And we might not have come to this disaster for moderate Europe.
Click to expand...


Yeah pity, I suspect working class areas would have had substantial investment and immigration would have gone on unnoticed.
 
C

Crumpo

Member
Lego Boss said:
Personally l think it's going to be May as Tory leader.

She is also the only one insane enough to pull the lever on A50.
Click to expand...

Only if she can ged freedom of movement of drones and shock troopers.


A country under her gives me some serious V for Vendetta vibes...
 
C

Carn82

Member
hah, this will go down well ..

European leaders have said they expect Britain to notify them of its intention to leave the as early as September, and insisted the UK has no prospect of keeping access to the single market unless it continues to accept EU migration.
Click to expand...

Donald Tusk, the EU council president, added that the leaders had made it “crystal clear” that access to the single market “requires acceptance of all four EU freedoms – including freedom of movement. There can be no single market a la carte.”
Click to expand...
 
H

Hazzuh

Member
looool, have you guys seen Sarah Vine accidentally emailed some random person about the Boris - Gove deal? The email was supposed to be to Gove.

It reads: "Very important that we focus on the individual obstacles and thoroughly overcome them before moving to the next. I really think Michael needs to have a Henry or a Beth with him for this morning's crucial meetings.

"One simple message: You MUST have SPECIFIC from Boris OTHERWISE you cannot guarantee your support. The details can be worked out later on, but without that you have no leverage.

"Crucially, the membership will not have the necessary reassurance to back Boris, neither will Dacre/Murdoch, who instinctively dislike Boris but trust your ability enough to support a Boris Gove ticket.

"Do not concede any ground. Be your stubborn best.

"GOOD LUCK."
Click to expand...
 
M

Maledict

Member
Lego Boss said:
Personally l think it's going to be May as Tory leader.

She is also the only one insane enough to pull the lever on A50.
Click to expand...

Nah. She's not insane, and whilst there are many things to be angry at her at, she does have good qualities. She was the cabinet level minister responsible for the first push and gay marriage, and she's also the first Home Secretary to ever tell the police they were institionally racist and either needed to fix it or be fixed. For a Tory that's an insanely brave message to have to bear.

Thinking it through, the results of the labour leadership contest may have more of a bearing on triggering article 50 than anything else. If Labour gets a credible, electable leader and starts shifting in the polls the Tories may feel the need to shore up the base and the Leave vote and activate article 50 in a short term desperate move (sound familiaR?). If labour are completely unelectable and not a threat at all, they have much more room to tell the party "We tried, but there's no way to do this without literally destroying the country, therefore...".
 
M

maquiladora

Member
Carn82 said:
hah, this will go down well ..
Click to expand...

Well, I mean it's obvious. If they give the UK an a la carte "Ok you can have access to the single market but no you don't need to allow free movement of people" then a lot of the EU nations would leave and demand the same deal....there wouldn't be a union anymore.
 
J

jelly

Member
SymbiantXenos said:
[OUT3] We Happy Few.
Click to expand...

Too scary

/takes pill

This is Great! Rule Britannia!

What's that your eating? Oh it polish....very lean...never made the boats. We keep them around for special occasions, I hear Romanian and Italian are good for BBQs, we should order some for the summer.
 
F

Faddy

Banned
D4Danger said:
I'd still like to know what Nicola Sturgeon's plan for Scotland is considering the arse fell out of the oil market five minutes after they voted for stay.

If you think leaving the EU is bad imagine what leaving the EU and the UK would do.
Click to expand...

When Brexit happens there will be a lot of financial services firms needing to relocate. Perhaps we could try and grab part of that market.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...otlands-chance-to-steal-london-finance-crown/
 
accel

accel

Member
shinra-bansho said:
I don't particularly see how noting the particulars of individual economies' structures and sectors is a more simplistic view of economic growth disparity than attribution to nondescript "bureaucracy". The UK underwent Thatchernomic reforms at the same time as Reagan, Hawke/Keating, Richardson et al. liberalised markets in their respective countries. It transitioned to a service economy as global forces drove the decline of manufacturing.

I'm not entirely sure what this vision of the UK outside the EU over the last two decades is supposed to have looked like. The world driving Rolls Royces as we all browse GAF on our British designed and manufactured smartphones while searching Britoogle. Because of all the red tape being shred to ribbons.
Click to expand...

My point is that EU is being outperformed by basically every developed country. I mentioned a few countries, I can keep adding to the list. I think that is a sure signal that it's not the individual countries with somehow special circumstances for each, but rather the problem with the EU, it's not that others are getting lucky, it's that the EU is bad at it.

What the UK outside the EU would / could be like? Something like Switzerland - not in terms of mountains and chocolate and banks (although why not banks), but rather in terms of trading with the EU just fine, on the same basis as with any other country, but not being subject to the central policies, etc.
 
B

Biggzy

Member
TatteredHat said:
You can get your EEA membership just like any other country that wants it, fair is fair.
Click to expand...

What gets me is that the leave camp knew this. Therefore the leave camp are so far up their own arse that they believe they can get exemptions; they lied to the electorate - yeah I know, shock horror; or they are willing to leave the single market.
 
K

knavish

Member
Pandy said:
A.G. Barr (from Wikipedia):

Revenue £260.9 million (2015)[1]
Operating income £42.1 million (2015)[1]
Net income £30.0 million (2015)[1]
Number of employees 930 (2015)[2]

;)


I knew I didn't like him from something, but couldn't remember what. Thought I was just having 'smug tory git' bias.
Click to expand...


i stand corrected! wow thats a lot of Bru
 
Z

Zaph

Member
QuicheFontaine said:
I don't follow, you don't have to pass an exam to post on this website...

Also, I think a point may be flying over your and Zaph's heads here (and in fact everyone who keeps quoting that Gove "people have had enough of experts" line): Leavers don't want things explained to them. They want to be listened to.
Click to expand...

Over the past few days we've had to hear a whole lot of Brexiters talk, but not heard a great many points other than immigration.

If the issue is jobs and industry, well, they've gone and fucked themselves there.
 
C

Carn82

Member
maquiladora said:
Well, I mean it's obvious. If they give the UK an a la carte "Ok you can have access to the single market but no you don't need to allow free movement of people" then a lot of the EU nations would leave and demand the same deal....there wouldn't be a union anymore.
Click to expand...

I know. My point was that "it will go down well" with Leave-voters who thought 'Leave' meant 'less (economic) immigrants'.
 
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