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[Purkake4]

it's article 50 mate

Was going to make a joke, but it doesn't go up to Article 66.

 

[Nordicus]

5 times Michael Gove has said he's not capable of leading:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...al-not-equipped-to-be-pm-candidate?CMP=twt_gu

Murdoch updated the software

 

[Clear]

But in the case that solves the domestic problem, the damage to the EU/UK relationship is irrecoverable. No one will trust UK anymore.

Only if it happens, which is an outcome not many politicians want.

Ultimately should article 50 be triggered there's a 2 year period over which time discussions must be had as to how to convert all EU migrant workers to the same legal status as migrants from non-EU nations. That's an inevitable consequence UNLESS a deal is struck with the EU to allow something different.

Which is why its a bargaining chip.

 

[Hasney]

Murdoch updated the software

I'm surprised he wants someone that's so constantly pathetically weak. Sure, easy to control I'm sure, but you'd want someone that would be slightly easier for people to elect, surely. Even wish his media machine working overtime.

 

[Pandy]

If EU refuses to negotiate before UK has exited and UK has to go WTO terms, it's check mate for UK.

BBC reporting it now:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36678222

Unfortunately it makes sense from a negotiating standpoint. How could they negotiate a trade deal until they've figured out what the basic arrangements of the separation are?
Also, explains why the people in Europe have been so keen for us to get Article 50 activated immediately as soon as possible.

 

[KampferZeon]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCNews/status/748590418095448064?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

When you think the situation surely couldn't be any worse.

"First you exit then you negotiate," Cecilia Malmstrom told BBC Newsnight.
After Brexit, the UK would become a "third country" in EU terms, she said - meaning trade would be carried out based on World Trade Organisation rules until a new deal was complete.
A recent trade deal with Canada took seven years to negotiate.
The Canadian agreement will also require ratification by all EU countries, adding another one to two years before it takes effect.
Ms Malmstrom, the EU Trade Commissioner, underlined that detailed talks to shape the UK's new trading relationship with the EU should not start until after the process of leaving politically, under an Article 50 process lasting up to two years.
"There are actually two negotiations. First you exit, and then you negotiate the new relationship, whatever that is," she said.

Project Reality is 1000 more scary than "Project Fear"

Spoiler

We can all live in VR world soon

 

[Hasney]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCNews/status/748590418095448064?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

When you think the situation surely couldn't be any worse.

45
Complete Forensics
Complete Forensics‏ @Com_Forensics

@BBCNews you mean EU can't begin trade talks until the UK is FREE... Stop the spin

Er, I don't think the BBC are the spinners here... Unless he means free of an economy, then sure!

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

My god Gove is going to be Prime Minister isn't he

We've hit dystopia

 

[Biggzy]

Does anyone have an explanation as to why the House of Commons did not insist on the result of the referendum to become binding? Because as it is now, parliament has to vote on the referendum.

 

[Hasney]

Does anyone have an explanation as to why the House of Commons did not insist on the result of the referendum to become binding? Because as it is now, parliament has to vote on the referendum.

Because they never are, they're advisory by nature.

 

[Maledict]

Because they never are, they're advisory by nature.

Not true - the AV referendum was legally binding and placed a duty on parliament to legislate.

And Cameron didn't put legislation on it as a bolt hole - just incase everything went wrong, it gives you more options to prevent the complete fuck up that Brexit is.

 

[Funky Papa]

Well yes. But bear in mind there's no actual evidence that May said anything of the sort at all.



That's not what she is reported as saying either.

Look, the rights of EU nationals in the UK need to be secured, as absent the EU treaties there is no such right. This something to be bargained for. I see nothing wrong with that, nor in potentially using this as a bargaining chip to secure identical rights for brits resident in the EU.

That's the silver lining, so far.

I'd rather not have that conversation in public.

 

[Biggzy]

Because they never are, they're advisory by nature.

But the AV referendum was binding? Although that might have been because too many MPs would have had an interest in keeping FPTP.

 

[le-seb]

I think france just shot itself in the foot. That doesn't meet British humor standards, not even close.

You're absolutely right.

Nothing can beat the Monty Pythons...

 

[Lego Boss]

My Polish wife, (who works for the Ministry of Justice no less), was subject to that casual racism of: 'The country is too full, so we shouldn't be let anyone in. Not you (my wife), of course, but all the others'

Some of these are white, some if these are second generation immigrants from all over the world. Either way, you have had all of the benefits and opportunities provided for you and now you don't want to share it with others.

Well l'm sorry if l sound small-minded, but if you don't like it and you voted out, irrespective of race, colour, Creed or religion, you can GTFO out of my country, because that is not what l stand for, or my country stands for.

When the political becomes personal, that's when it's raw.

Last Friday was my wife and mines 10th wedding anniversary. She spent the day in bed. I've never seen her so sad. Desperation. Desolation. That's all we could feel.

If you think that is acceptable or the sign of a liberal democracy you are deluded.

I'm sorry to vent like this, but that's the way l feel. I don't recognise what is going on here anymore.

 

[KampferZeon]

45
Complete Forensics
Complete Forensics‏ @Com_Forensics

@BBCNews you mean EU can't begin trade talks until the UK is FREE... Stop the spin

Er, I don't think the BBC are the spinners here... Unless he means free of an economy, then sure!

Behold the power of the technocrats!

Under EU law, the bloc cannot negotiate a separate trade deal with one of its own members, hence the commissioner's insistence that the UK must first leave.
It is also against EU law for a member to negotiate its own trade deals with outsiders, which means the UK cannot start doing this until after it has left the EU.
Taken at face value, these rules mean the UK cannot conduct its own trade talks for up to two years - a fearsome challenge to any prime minister trying to deliver Brexit.

 

[Hasney]

But the AV referendum was binding? Although that might have been because too many MPs would have had an interest in keeping FPTP.

Yeah, probably to stop them from voting against that. I guess because it would have been timed somehow then? Because if it's binding, you gotta pull the trigger sometime. May has already said it wouldn't be this year if she gets in I've not heard Murdoch Gove set his timetable yet.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Murdoch updated the software

Don't worry mate just do what I tell you do and everything will work out.

 

[Alx]

I just read an interesting interview (in French, sorry) of Lord Adair Turner, former head of Financial Services Authority by French paper Le Monde.
He says he thinks the chances of UK not leaving the EU are low ("no more than 5%"), but thinks there's a 50% chance they could negotiate a Norway-like deal with no major consequence to the City. In case UK can't access the single market and loses passporting though, he thinks Scotland would stay in the EU and Edinburgh would replace London in financial trading.

 

[Endorphineforeverybody]

My Polish wife, (who works for the Ministry of Justice no less), was subject to that casual racism of: 'The country is too full, so we shouldn't be let anyone in. Not you (my wife), of course, but all the others'

Some of these are white, some if these are second generation immigrants from all over the world. Either way, you have had all of the benefits and opportunities provided for you and now you don't want to share it with others.

Well l'm sorry if l sound small-minded, but if you don't like it and you voted out, irrespective of race, colour, Creed or religion, you can GTFO out of my country, because that is not what l stand for, or my country stands for.

When the political becomes personal, that's when it's raw.

Last Friday was my wife and mines 10th wedding anniversary. She spent the day in bed. I've never seen her so sad. Desperation. Desolation. That's all we could feel.

If you think that is acceptable or the sign of a liberal democracy you are deluded.

I'm sorry to vent like this, but that's the way l feel. I don't recognise what is going on here anymore.

Oh man thats really a sad posting. Dont let these things get to your heart a lot of people dont think like that. Frightening way the uk is going now. What a mess.

 

[Osahi]

Edit. Oh snap. Needed the euro 2016 topic

 

[Pyramid head]

This last few days, I've really seen the racist pricks crawl out of the woodwork on my Facebook friends list. None of my actual friends, but amongst extended circles. Fucking stupid cunts. I held off deleting them for a while, mostly to try to gauge their reasoning. They started off with a lot of 'I'm not racist but something needs to be done about immigration' type bullshit, and after a couple of them moved on to posting Ukip vids, it was time to clean house.

Even though none of them were close friends, some of them were extended family or people I'd known for years and they've never posted this kind of crap before their little 'victory'.

I reckon a poll of leave voter's views would reveal a higher majority of they're racist than won the referendum to begin with.

Fuck them all.

 

[pigeon]

Behold the power of the technocrats!

So, like, theoretically what if the UK just went and started negotiating trade agreements on its own while article 50 was in abeyance or in progress? What would the consequences be, exactly? Would the EU sanction the other party?

I'm unclear on the EU's enforcement power on a country that is planning to leave.

 

[LewieP]

Does anyone have an explanation as to why the House of Commons did not insist on the result of the referendum to become binding? Because as it is now, parliament has to vote on the referendum.

They never considered we'd be dumb enough to actually vote leave.

 

[Maledict]

So, like, theoretically what if the UK just went and started negotiating trade agreements on its own while article 50 was in abeyance or in progress? What would the consequences be, exactly? Would the EU sanction the other party?

I'm unclear on the EU's enforcement power on a country that is planning to leave.

They aren't saying Britain cant negotiate deals outside the EU. Just that there won't be any discussion on deals with the EU until article 50 is over.

However, there is a very practical reason we can't - we don't have anyone to do it. We haven't negotiated trade deals in 40 years, we don't have the skills or people. It takes hundreds of specialists to make these deals, and we have none. Add into that the fact the civil service is in melt down and has to deal with Brexit issues (which is probably the biggest legal challenge in human history, no joke), and it's unbelievably unlikely we'd have anything done or even started in time.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

I'm getting 'migrate to Germany' ads.

 

[KampferZeon]

So, like, theoretically what if the UK just went and started negotiating trade agreements on its own while article 50 was in abeyance or in progress? What would the consequences be, exactly? Would the EU sanction the other party?

I'm unclear on the EU's enforcement power on a country that is planning to leave.

I am sure no one knows. I guess time is the weapon.

Its going to take long time to resolve the mess. Not following protocol and/or challenging the eu laws will just add more time to the negotiations.

 

[Mr. Sam]

BBC reporting it now:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36678222

Unfortunately it makes sense from a negotiating standpoint. How could they negotiate a trade deal until they've figured out what the basic arrangements of the separation are?
Also, explains why the people in Europe have been so keen for us to get Article 50 activated immediately as soon as possible.

Why is this just coming to light now? Why didn't this come out in the last week or, better yet, before the referendum?

This would be a disaster.

Malmstrom's tone comes across as very sarcastic:

"This would be catastrophic."
"Yes it would - we're respecting the will of the British people."

 

[Biggzy]

They aren't saying Britain cant negotiate deals outside the EU. Just that there won't be any discussion on deals with the EU until article 50 is over.

However, there is a very practical reason we can't - we don't have anyone to do it. We haven't negotiated trade deals in 40 years, we don't have the skills or people. It takes hundreds of specialists to make these deals, and we have none. Add into that the fact the civil service is in melt down and has to deal with Brexit issues (which is probably the biggest legal challenge in human history, no joke), and it's unbelievably unlikely we'd have anything done or even started in time.

The civil service is in for a battering in the coming years. This is on top of the continuing cuts and the potential issue of Scottish independence. Basically, don't be surprised if nothing gets done for the foreseeable future.

They never considered we'd be dumb enough to actually vote leave.

Especially Boris lol.

 

[Hasney]

Why is this just coming to light now? Why didn't this come out in the last week or, better yet, before the referendum?

This would be a disaster.

Because the wording of Article 50 doesn't state anything like this. They're interpreting other rules against trade negotiation as part of the EU and saying that during that 2 year exit period, those rules still apply. It's only just coming to light because nobody knew until now, including other member states.

 

[theaface]

I was just looking at the transcript from Boris the Spider's speech on his Facebook page today and I couldn't help myself but look at the comments section. My god, so many people are so far up his arse it's quite unbelievable. Literally he can do no wrong in some peoples' eyes. Astonishing.

 

[Hazzuh]

I was trying to feel a little optimistic about getting an EEA-esque deal a few days ago... At this point Brexit looks totally untenable tbh, the deal we end up with will be unacceptable to the public and it could take forever for us to get there...

I was just looking at the transcript from Boris the Spider's speech on his Facebook page today and I couldn't help myself but look at the comments section. My god, so many people are so far up his arse it's quite unbelievable. Literally he can do no wrong in some peoples' eyes. Astonishing.

Rather than having credible political parties, the country is dividing until multiple "cults" built around "charismatic" leaders. Corbyn, Farage etc etc.

 

[kmag]

They aren't saying Britain cant negotiate deals outside the EU. Just that there won't be any discussion on deals with the EU until article 50 is over.

However, there is a very practical reason we can't - we don't have anyone to do it. We haven't negotiated trade deals in 40 years, we don't have the skills or people. It takes hundreds of specialists to make these deals, and we have none. Add into that the fact the civil service is in melt down and has to deal with Brexit issues (which is probably the biggest legal challenge in human history, no joke), and it's unbelievably unlikely we'd have anything done or even started in time.

Actually since all the EU treaties are in effect until the withdrawal date, the UK can't formally negotiate (as Article 207 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU delegates all member countries trade talks to the EU) with other countries during the withdrawal period I'd doubt the EU would enforce that.

 

[Hasney]

I was trying to feel a little optimistic about getting an EEA-esque deal a few days ago... At this point Brexit looks totally untenable tbh, the deal we end up with will be unacceptable to the public and it could take forever for us to get there...

But yet, the deal won't be known until we leave, so fuck even knows!

 

[Mr. Sam]

This puts an absolute best case scenario as negotiating a new deal in half a decade, at least three years of which would be with us not receiving any extraordinary trade benefits from anyone, with no guarantee that the resulting deal would be any good (and considering our economy would be on fire the entire time and we'd be desperate to get a deal done as soon as possible, it's not like we have much leverage).

Just... fucking... wow.

 

[Hazzuh]

I'd say "if only this was made more clear before the referendum" but then I remember that the British public are tired of experts so ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[norinrad]

It's time i stay postpone any visit to the UK for the next 10 years. It's become quite a nasty place in just a fucking few days when stupid politicians some how managed to unleash the nasty part in certain human beings.

 

[Pandy]

Why is this just coming to light now? Why didn't this come out in the last week or, better yet, before the referendum?

This would be a disaster.

Malmstrom's tone comes across as very sarcastic:

"This would be catastrophic."
"Yes it would - we're respecting the will of the British people."

Remember, there was no exit planning done by either the UK government or the Leave campaign. There may well have been an article or two published during the campaign by those in the know, but they obviously would have been too dull to focus on when we were busy shouting 'racist' and 'traitor' at one another.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

This puts an absolute best case scenario as negotiating a new deal in half a decade, at least three years of which would be with us not receiving any extraordinary trade benefits from anyone, with no guarantee that the resulting deal would be any good (and considering our economy would be on fire the entire time and we'd be desperate to get a deal done as soon as possible, it's not like we have much leverage).

Just... fucking... wow.

To factor into all that: That's assuming any trade deal isn't put on hold by say, a General Election in 2020, and that the government that follows doesn't have any issues with existing negotiations (which if there's any swing away from the Tories, there's guaranteed to be some). If Article 50 does get invoked, the next decade is likely be quite rough.

 

[f0rk]

So if a country had a legitimate reason to leave that everyone agreed with, how would they even do it? Ironically it seems one of the few more agreeable arguments against the EU (could be considered a bureaucratic mess) actually just makes it impossible to leave safely.

 

[Hasney]

Remember, there was no exit planning done by either the UK government or the Leave campaign. There may well have been an article or two published during the campaign by those in the know, but they obviously would have been too dull to focus on when we were busy shouting 'racist' and 'traitor' at one another.

I followed most things pretty closely across multiple sites (and I like the dull things ). Considering this seems to have come as a surprise to some countries in the EU since France was making noise about negotiations during the period, I think everyone has just found out today.

 

[Hazzuh]

Some juicy stuff on Gove/Johnson

Prominent MP who backed Boris Johnson claims "Osborne, Hancock, Gove and SPAD Newman met until late last night. Osborne behind the stabbing"

 

[PdotMichael]

Behold the power of the technocrats!

Well, article 50 isn't the only option for the UK to leave the EU. They could just say fuck you and declare any EU treaties void.

But for some reason the EU is UK quite important although being to blame for everything wrong in the country.

 

[cyberheater]

My god Gove is going to be Prime Minister isn't he

We've hit dystopia

Well at least he'll have Corbyn to battle in the house of commons. Exciting times.

 

[Daemul]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCNews/status/748590418095448064?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

When you think the situation surely couldn't be any worse.

After this news my anger is dissipating and it's being replaced by sorrow. We're fucked.

 

[Alx]

So if a country had a legitimate reason to leave that everyone agreed with, how would they even do it? Ironically it seems one of the few more agreeable arguments against the EU (could be considered a bureaucratic mess) actually just makes it impossible to leave safely.

Well leaving itself is quite straightforward, "I'm out, cancel all the treaties that bind us". The issue is when the member that leaves still wants to keep some of its benefits, which partially contradicts the concept of leaving.

 

[BlastProcessing]

This puts an absolute best case scenario as negotiating a new deal in half a decade, at least three years of which would be with us not receiving any extraordinary trade benefits from anyone, with no guarantee that the resulting deal would be any good (and considering our economy would be on fire the entire time and we'd be desperate to get a deal done as soon as possible, it's not like we have much leverage).

Just... fucking... wow.

 

[Randomizer123454444]

So if a country had a legitimate reason to leave that everyone agreed with, how would they even do it? Ironically it seems one of the few more agreeable arguments against the EU (could be considered a bureaucratic mess) actually just makes it impossible to leave safely.

How so? All EU is "threatening" to do is revoking all membership benefits. There are no sanctions being threatened or anything. UK wants to get rid of EU obligations, EU says, "OK, but you won't get benefits either".

Quitting EU is easy. Problem is, UK benefits massively from being in EU. If brexit becomes, all that is going to happen is UK loses those benefits.

 

[liquidtmd]

Well leaving itself is quite straightforward, "I'm out, cancel all the treaties that bind us". The issue is when the member that leaves still wants to keep some of its benefits, which partially contradicts the concept of leaving.

The issue is it's fundamentally impossbile without resetting the UK as we know it.

 

[Pandy]

I followed most things pretty closely across multiple sites (and I like the dull things ). Considering this seems to have come as a surprise to some countries in the EU since France was making noise about negotiations during the period, I think everyone has just found out today.

Fair enough. I genuinely wasn't paying much attention to detail during the campaign as I knew how I was voting long before I had the ballot paper in front of me.

I guess we can put it down to no one in the UK asking the question, and no one in the EU thinking we'd ever be daft enough to ask.