Here's something to lighten the mood a bit:
fox news are really terrible, wtf
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The UK votes to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Spring Drive
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fox news are really terrible, wtf
Boy Wander
Member
I'm trying to explain how people feel. This is an emotive issue. You clearly are incapable of seeing their side so it's not worth trying to have a conversation with people like you. That's really your best retort? Do one.
Those PFI loans have come back to bite it but on the whole I've no concerns at present.
Ask me again at the end of the parliament. Then again, health is devolved so I likely experience a somewhat different experience from you.
You can't just imply everything has equal probability and handwave it away with your own scenarios.
That seems unrealistic, I'm afraid. You can't expect somebody to act as if nothing happened when a friend loads a gun, points it at you and threatens to shoot but then puts it away. Even if you forgive the sentiment there still is a loaded gun with a bullet for you around. The article wasn't used because the prime minister basically resigned and he would look even worse if he set things in motion on his way out. If Britain suffers he'd be blamed and vilified twice. Let his successor do it, it's totally understandable from his perspective. Plus, the act is so historic and monumentaly, you don't do it on your own without many consultations first.
call_kotaku
Member
Wasn't the whole purpose of creating an unified currency and forming an economic bloc so that European countries could have more economic clout in dealing with countries like China, Russia, and the US?
Isn't leaving that bloc to get more favorable trade terms like throwing away your umbrella in a rainstorm because you're not wet? But I suppose if the whole concept of the EU is defunct then it makes sense to start early.
Isn't leaving that bloc to get more favorable trade terms like throwing away your umbrella in a rainstorm because you're not wet? But I suppose if the whole concept of the EU is defunct then it makes sense to start early.
What is the cultural interference that you mentioned?
geordiemp
Member
I was pointing out that a dictatorial / combative EU might not go down so well with many dis-enfranchised citizens in other parts of EU. Go read some of Merkels comments today, she is implying the same thing.
How many other Eu countries may invoke similar votes soon ?
No idea what you are on about, what has that got to do with USA ?
AnathemicOne
Banned
Poles and their damn Witcher 3 invading dat culture
Heckler456
Banned
There's also the fact that while England will still technically be part of the conversation until they officially exist the EU, their voice will carry little to no weight in actual practice given the situation, more than likely.
SprachBrooks
Member
I've been filled with such deep fear all day that it's spiralling into deep depression and loss of all hope. I honestly don't know if I will ever recover from this; this has been the darkest year in my life personally and knowing I will lose my rights as a worker, as a member of society and as a minority because of those uneducated enough to vote for the same people they're representing has thrown me. How can people be so wilfully ignorant in this day and age? It's true: we really do get the world we deserve.
Wrestlemania
Banned
don't we still have a veto until we leave?
Oh please. Don't pretend we're suddenly going to see workers get shit on and a return to the Victorian times.
Yes
There is absolutely *nothing* dictatorial or combative about renegotiating deals and giving the UK worse terms.
This is exactly what people voted for.
You go out, you come to the negotiation table with different bargaining power. Your view of the situation is completely off.
Boy Wander
Member
OK, so lets replace the word equally with possibly. I'm of the stance that we should wait and see. Preaching doom one day in is just silly. Plenty of economists said that leaving the ERM would be a disaster. It was shit for a while but it panned out ok. I still think there is a strong right wing sentiment across several EU countries that is gathering strength and could further unsettle the EU. I could possibly be wrong. We just dont know.
We don't know if it does, that's what some assume. The point I'm trying to make is that it would be undesirable if it is proved that the UK can get rid of all the EU "disadvantages" while preserving all the benefits (namely the common market). Or to find out that in the near future Polish or Romanians will have a harder time getting work permits in the UK, but British goods and people can still move freely through the EU.
That would send the wrong message. Why shouldn't then my own country be able to benefit from all the good while keeping away all the bad of the EU? That's the likely problem that the EU would face if they decide to pursue some sort of "status quo" where everything stays mostly the same.
The EU needs to show that things are different if you're not in the EU. That some benefits exist for those who stay in. It's like a club. If you decide to leave a club because you don't agree with its rules, no one should expect to keep getting the club's benefits afterwards, it's unfair to those who stay inside.
Please.
I feel no kinship to any of these people. They are all the other to me. As alien as any alien. I share no common bond with them.
Heckler456
Banned
Might be. I'm mostly speaking from common sense in this regard.
Plz some of us are allowed to be worried. No need to be condescending.
When all we have here is Sammy fucking Wilson to tell us everything will be fine Britain's place on s flat earth will be fine it's not reassuring
I get that you're angry, but these posts only make it easier for those who disagree to ignore your position.
Wouldn't it be in the EU's best interest to rip off the band-aid though? Not that they're necessarily equipped to do so, but I'd expect diplomatic relations to turn very frosty, irrespective of all the platitudes offered today.
>-Baron-Spamedi-<
Member
In your fictional world scenario? I don't know.
It exists in only your head. You should know the answer.
However, here in the real world, there have been some problems caused by slapdash immigration policies and a drive towards multiculturism without a strong focus on integration and social cohesion. Not all the concerns have been solely whipped up out of nothing by the likes of Farage.
If the politicians do something about the real problems it will make it easier to dispel the myths surrounding the non-problems.
geordiemp
Member
Yes the goal is correct. To do that you just need a group of countries that have a free trade agreement and a common market. FULL STOP. Britain and even Boris has always been in favour of that.
You dont have to have a single currency. You dont have to be the federal states of Europe. That is the very big difference in views, UK joined a common market, not a EU with a president and the like.
Maybe, remember CAC and DAX dropped more than FTSE today, and Milan almost 12 %. Its not just UK that needs this, everybody is sweating.
My gut feel is there will be lots of noise and chest beating from all sides, and in 3 months some magical deal will be worked out with a new UK government. Lets just see eh ?
Its no surprise Germany has a contingency plan leaked a little in a german paper, I bet UK has to, and I bet they talked allot and are still talking. I believe that some people are smarter than we give credit for. Lets see where this goes.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Fair enough.
I guess this was already posted?
Yes it has, but please keep in mind, the Leave campaign had nothing to do with immigrants!!
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I'm amused how I'm reading that Article 50 would be used as a levarage for a better deal for the UK inside EU.
For that to happen, the other party needs to be afraid of you pushing the red button, not actively you wanting to press the button because they don't fucking care anymore.
For that to happen, the other party needs to be afraid of you pushing the red button, not actively you wanting to press the button because they don't fucking care anymore.
Thank you. Though most exiters think they have landed some sort of mortal blow, that this will turn the flank of all negotiations etc. Sheer delusion.
I'm being realistic, not condescending. The amount of hyperbolic, puerile nonsense I've read today is fucking ridiculous.
Sorry, this is really delusional. The EU is going to take the UK for an absolute ride.
They may not be alone either. Wouldn't be surprised if other nations take advantage of this situation.
With Witcher 4 we will rule over the world!
Just don't open a deli on the high street!
Haven't there been some GAFers who've already said today that their jobs are now being moved (or cut altogether)? I think it's plenty fair for people to be worried about what's going to happen to them, as things are already happening.
It hasn't panned out at all. It's been one day. One of the big economic problems with this exit is that now no one knows what is going to happen to Britain and the EU, and that is going to affect future investments. Sure the initial panic was big, but that's not what people are really afraid of.
More Fun To Compute
Member
So why not punish Norway for not being a member of the EU? If you can collapse their economy it would send a strong message.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
It would plainly be immoral for the UK to exercise any voice within the EU from today until Article 50 just as it would plainly be immoral for any British civil servant working in the EU to draw a salary from hard-working European taxpayers they intend to stab in the back.
US will most certainly do.
And a state-run China newspaper already qualified UK as a "weak country" now.
SprachBrooks
Member
Because Norway were never part of the EU, left then tried to negotiate favourable terms. They negotiated what always being outside of the EU. The UK has no such leverage and is in a completely different position.
Boy Wander
Member
I'm trying to explain the sentiment of the older generation, I'm not saying that I agree with it. There's a huge swing between remain and leave when you look at younger and older voters. I don't buy the "most old people are racist" argument.
because they invented that thing that thinly slices cheese we need for our strugglewich.
If the EU forgave Greek debt on a significant scale and refinanced the place, Italy and Spain would have held up their hands the very next day, demanding some of that free cash. That would have collapsed the system.
I personally think the EU could have handled Greece better, but there was no obvious solution at hand. But perhaps now is the time to restructure all of Southern-Europe's debts, Germany will want to improve the EU's cohesion. Maybe some good will come of this....
Boy Wander
Member
I'm talking about 1992 mate...
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
He does have a good point. If Cameron wasn't willing to push the button the day after the popular vote, then it's highly unlikely that anyone who succeeds him will, either.
Norway follows all of the EU laws and rules. Pays into the EU budget.
This is what the UK wants? It's basically the current terms but worse with no say on making the rules. That is the best case scenario.
The immense stupidity of the situation can not be stressed enough.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Norway is not a member of the EU, never was. They are just part of the EEA.
Having better conditions to return our debt and Italy's, wouldn't have collapsed any system...
Doing a quick search of my local news and major banks in Australia are shutting down FOREX trading because Aussies are trying to gobble up cheap Pounds.
Likely everyone will stick the knife in at some point.
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