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It came up repeatedly but remain still couldn't get it hammered home. If they did they'd have won.

easier said than done

problem was that people believed it was broadly true. i.e it didn't matter if the number was actually 150million not 350m, ultimately they still hated idea of a big sounding amount of tax money going to brussels bureaucrats instead of being used on british things like the nhs. correcting it endlessly just repeated the message that resonated with people.

 

[kmag]

both sides have to protect themselves, why would the UK intentionally cause themselves issue just to please Europeans? perhaps when they wrote this article the EU should of said that they get to call it...

The UK has to protect it's own interest

Wait a minute aren't you the guy spending the entire thread poo pooing any notion of the Eu protecting its own self interest which is to give the uk the biggest shafting it can possibly push on it to keep the eu a functional entity.

Ultimately, the Eu to make being a member far more attractive than not being on, that means they have no real impetus to offer a sweet deal. In fact quite the opposite.

German luxury car manufacturers can take a couple of years of wto rules on imports to the uk, as German luxury cars are basically the luxury car market, U.K. Services couldn't handle a couple of years of wto rules mainly because wto rules on services are fucking draconian. Literally go have a read of them and come back to me. Gats offers the country importing the service so many opt outs that it's barely a trade agreement, gatt ( trade in goods) on the other hand is relatively straightforward in terms of tariffs and protectionist methods available.

The Eu can simply wait the uk out, the U.K. can't sign or even negotiate trade deals while it's still a member of the eu, the Eu can continue business as usual while the uk dithers. The eu can also ignore any attempt to negiotate before an article 50 declaration.

Getting it over with and setting the new normality is the smart thing to do, but it's not the only option. The eu hold the cards here, they're 27 countries to your one.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

I'm sure this has been posted already, but this seems like a major fuck-up:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ters-abroad-denied-postal-votes-a7098271.html

 

[Screaming Meat]

your'e prime minister said it, I think you would agree he was one of the 'main' players

Brexit' could trigger World War Three, warns David Cameron

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607

Did you read the article...?

 

[Tak3n]

A lot of people are/were voting 'against the government', not thinking about the consequences.

This I believe is what happened, people saw it as a chance to give the tories a kicking, you can not blame them for that

 

[Miles Quaritch]

So which Gaffer is this?

Tak3n? TCRS? geordiemp?

 

[Darkstorne]

all I know of is that MEP saying about immigration? Farage about the 350 million, TBF we all knew the 350 million was a headline baseless fact.... but both parties made spurious claims and had the vote been to remain, the debate would of turned to their promises etc

You really are unbelievable.

The WW3 claim was stupid, but made once. Same way Leave's claims about the EU being equivalent to Nazi Germany were stupid, but only made once. The key messages for Leave, that were made repeatedly and conned millions into voting in support of them, were lies. They key messages Remain made about the dangers of leaving (labelled as "project fear" by the Leave camp) have all been accurate. That's why so many people are now regretting their votes.

This I believe is what happened, people saw it as a chance to give the tories a kicking, you can not blame them for that

Yep, I give up with this guy. What a great reflection of the Leave voters who don't regret their votes.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

your'e prime minister said it, I think you would agree he was one of the 'main' players

Brexit' could trigger World War Three, warns David Cameron

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607

Did you just take your information from a tabloid headline? Of course you did.

 

[nOoblet16]

your'e prime minister said it, I think you would agree he was one of the 'main' players

Brexit' could trigger World War Three, warns David Cameron

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607

Here's something I'll tell you, tabloid headlines don't have quotes in them, neither direct nor implied.
Why don't you watch the video included in the link you posted yourself.

This is exactly why people say Leave supporters never fact check and only rely on tabloid headlines !

 

[Starwolf_UK]

Where do you set the ceiling? Say they set it at 75% and remain lost, they'd be calling for 80%.

It's not up to me but I kind of dislike your drawing the line fallacy as argument there should be no minimum turnout nor any kind of meaningful majority at all. You didn't say what 75% meant but I assume turnout in which case I have nothing against Australia where it is mandatory. That does have issues of fines for not voting (which could lead to people not registering at all) and there not being "none of the above/don't know" box (as apparently people are not capable of spoiling a ballot).

This vote has manged to divide the country more than 6 years of austerity managed to so yes I absolutely want to see mechanisms put in place so that any future big decisions are not as close and as a result be less divided and this petition is one way to discuss it. That is if the Petitions Committee decide it should be debated on Tuesday.

 

[oti]

This I believe is what happened, people saw it as a chance to give the tories a kicking, you can not blame them for that

You absolutely can. "Giving the Tories a kicking" does not excuse throwing the nation into a questionable future.

 

[Tak3n]

Wait a minute aren't you the guy spending the entire thread poo pooing any notion of the Eu protecting its own self interest which is to give the uk the biggest shafting it can possibly push on it to keep the eu a functional entity.

Ultimately, the Eu to make being a member far more attractive than not being on, that means they have no real impetus to offer a sweet deal. In fact quite the opposite.

German luxury car manufacturers can take a couple of years of wto rules on imports to the uk, as German luxury cars are basically the luxury car market, U.K. Services couldn't handle a couple of years of wto rules mainly because wto rules on services are fucking draconian. Literally go have a read of them and come back to me. Gats offers the country importing the service so many opt outs that it's barely a trade agreement, gatt ( trade in goods) on the other hand is relatively straightforward in terms of tariffs and protectionist methods available.

The Eu can simply wait the uk out, the U.K. can't sign or even negotiate trade deals while it's still a member of the eu, the Eu can continue business as usual while the uk dithers. The eu can also ignore any attempt to negiotate before an article 50 declaration.

Getting it over with and setting the new normality is the smart thing to do, but it's not the only option. The eu hold the cards here, they're 27 countries to your one.

So why are the EU pressurising the UK to declare article 50, if in reality as you say is does not make a difference to them...they seem awfully keen to get it done

 

[axisofweevils]

I think the trouble is, for years UKIP has been seen as a protest vote. However, this was a two horse race. Any vote for UKIP is one taken away from Remain. It seems people wanted a "resentfully remain" option.

 

[Ashes]

Worst case scenario. Cameron called Boris and asked them what they got. Laughed at their cobbled together effort. Told them he can't sell this to the EU and announced his resignation thereafter.

British bill of rights set by Tories is kinda scary. people become very irrationally attached to such things after long periods of time.

Would not be surprised if coming out of ECJ is in the works.

 

[PackAPunchedMick]

This I believe is what happened, people saw it as a chance to give the tories a kicking, you can not blame them for that

Yup, the Tories have been beating the shit out of us for 5 years. PAYBACK!

 

[Dorsal Axe]

I'm sure this has been posted already, but this seems like a major fuck-up:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ters-abroad-denied-postal-votes-a7098271.html

Oh FFS. This whole thing is such a farce. Lots of people in the comments saying they were unable to vote too.

 

[azyless]

This I believe is what happened, people saw it as a chance to give the tories a kicking, you can not blame them for that

"Hey mates, we voted for something that could have disastrous consequences but at least we gave them the middle finger, am I right"
Yeah you can absolutely blame them for that. This isn't middle school or celebrity big brother, votes have consequences.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Leave voters can't save face. There was no plan after leaving.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

This I believe is what happened, people saw it as a chance to give the tories a kicking, you can not blame them for that

I think I can blame them for giving people worst than the tories, more power.

If you are from the worker classes you don't want people like Farange and Johnson leading your country.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

fine I will post...

Deal for UK

I believe the UK has jumped first from a sinking ship, the BBC is also reporting this so I am not alone, the EU is broken and all the UK has done is start that process....

UK Demands

1. an immediate ban on low skilled labour coming over whilst exit strategy finalised. To help stop a rush

2. Free trade for all, any fees imposed on UK will be reciprocally imposed on EU.

3. points style immigration, a 15 year hold on low skilled labour unless a company can show evidence of not being able to fulfil jobs with British residents.

4. Any Europeans all ready in situ are welcome to stay, if you leave the UK you then become subject to the points system

5. All criminals who are non British are to be immediately deported

Hahahaha
You are seriously out of your fricking tree if you believe any of what you just posted.

Free trade for all? Hahahahaha.

 

[Tak3n]

You really are unbelievable.

The WW3 claim was stupid, but made once. Same way Leave's claims about the EU being equivalent to Nazi Germany were stupid, but only made once. The key messages for Leave, that were made repeatedly and conned millions into voting in support of them, were lies. They key messages Remain made about the dangers of leaving (labelled as "project fear" by the Leave camp) have all been accurate. That's why so many people are now regretting their votes.



Yep, I give up with this guy. What a great reflection of the Leave voters who don't regret their votes.

Do you believe all the posts on twitter? cmon it could be remain voters just playing the game...

and even if, and it is a if, there was 200,000 people regretting their vote, leave still won by over a million

 

[Ashes]

So why are the EU pressurising the UK to declare article 50, if in reality as you say is does not make a difference to them...they seem awfully keen to get it done

Market hates uncertainty.

 

[kadotsu]

You absolutely can. "Giving the Tories a kicking" does not excuse throwing the nation into a questionable future.

It's easy to walk away from 40 year old international agreements. It's very hard to vote for someone who might raise taxes on you a little (and more importantly: a lot on the yellow press rag you read).

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Leave voters can't save face. There was no plan after leaving.

Has anyone from the Leave shown their faces today?

 

[PJV3]

This I believe is what happened, people saw it as a chance to give the tories a kicking, you can not blame them for that

Yeah I think it's more about that than racism. There's a lot of resentment that never got addressed from the Thatcher years. The old coal fields finally getting to damage London for leaving them behind.

Immigration pressures are a real thing but Westminster is fucking useless, it's really hard to bash it with FPTP. One person, one vote and it all unravels.

 

[Tak3n]

Leave voters can't save face. There was no plan after leaving.

TBF it is all new, if remain had won it was just carry on as normal, but now we have to start from scratch so of course there is no 'real' plan, just ideas of what should happen now as until we talk to the EU no one knows what we will get

 

[Honey Bunny]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36630326

Brexit: Merkel says 'no need to be nasty' in leaving talks

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said the European Union has "no need to be particularly nasty in any way" in the negotiations with Britain about its exit from the bloc.

She insisted that deterring other countries from leaving the EU should not be a priority in the talks.

And she added she was not in favour of pushing for a speedy withdrawal.

Thanks Angie :')

 

[R_thanatos]

Oh, has anyone seen any members of the cabinet yet? Sturgeon has at least been out to say this is what we're doing to move forward, but Cameron & Osborne have gone to ground in the aftermath.

Why am i not surprised that scared Uk citizen are now actively seeking safeguards because they are scared of what will happen "tomorrow" or in the "near future"

Won't even be surprised if this happenned to other places too.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Yup, the Tories have been beating the shit out of us for 5 years. PAYBACK!

And the consequence of this is an unelected tory PM

WE SURE GAVE THOSE GUYS A KICKING AM I RIGHT.

 

[Setsu00]

I'm sure this has been posted already, but this seems like a major fuck-up:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ters-abroad-denied-postal-votes-a7098271.html

Would this be a legitimate reason for another referendum if this turns out to be true?

 

[Baybars]

Chances are they didn't think it would actually happen. That said, they cannot take action when they are not in power.

Brexiteers: Ha Ha. . We're leaving EU. FU. . . Ha Ha
EU: OK, Sorry about that; Can you please leave ASAP?

Brexiteers: Did you hear us . . . We're leaving?
EU: We did; Do you mind invoking article 50 as soon as you can?

Brexiteers: F Off. . . You won't tell us what to do. We're not leaving.
EU: Well when are you leaving?

Brexiteers: We don't know.

 

[KingSnake]

From outside it seems that this whole referendum thing was UKIP tricking Torries into fucking themselves and now Torries have a very hot potato and they can't throw it anywhere.

 

[axisofweevils]

RIP Tata Steel. https://t.co/tEIJZwmOuW

Several bidders for Tata Steel's British operations are close to abandoning talks with their Indian owner as the outcome of the EU referendum threatens to deepen the crisis enveloping the UK's biggest steel producer.

Sky News has learnt that the billionaire tycoon Wilbur Ross, who is among seven bidders shortlisted for Tata Steel's UK business, has signalled that exiting the EU would diminish the prospects of him pursuing a takeover.

 

[SporeCrawler]

Wait a minute aren't you the guy spending the entire thread poo pooing any notion of the Eu protecting its own self interest which is to give the uk the biggest shafting it can possibly push on it to keep the eu a functional entity.

Ultimately, the Eu to make being a member far more attractive than not being on, that means they have no real impetus to offer a sweet deal. In fact quite the opposite.

German luxury car manufacturers can take a couple of years of wto rules on imports to the uk, as German luxury cars are basically the luxury car market, U.K. Services couldn't handle a couple of years of wto rules mainly because wto rules on services are fucking draconian. Literally go have a read of them and come back to me. Gats offers the country importing the service so many opt outs that it's barely a trade agreement, gatt ( trade in goods) on the other hand is relatively straightforward in terms of tariffs and protectionist methods available.

The Eu can simply wait the uk out, the U.K. can't sign or even negotiate trade deals while it's still a member of the eu, the Eu can continue business as usual while the uk dithers. The eu can also ignore any attempt to negiotate before an article 50 declaration.

Getting it over with and setting the new normality is the smart thing to do, but it's not the only option. The eu hold the cards here, they're 27 countries to your one.

Good post.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36630326



Thanks Angie :')

Lol if Merkel says she is going to be nice that means that she will be ruthless.

Just look at all those ministers pf hers that she shafted.

 

[ExtremePopcorn]

all I know of is that MEP saying about immigration? Farage about the 350 million, TBF we all knew the 350 million was a headline baseless fact.... but both parties made spurious claims and had the vote been to remain, the debate would of turned to their promises etc

Bull fucking shit.

He's an MEP who went on Newsnight and backed out of their main policy. Noticed how there has been zero denial from anyone in Leave about what he said? Not one word about it.

Farage, Boris and everyone else on the Leave side spouted that number over and over. We all knew? Are you claiming that all 17,410,742 people who voted Leave knew it was a lie.

You knew it was a lie and you just carried on regardless, no curiosity as to what the true figure was or how lying about huge sums of money might affect the country.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

I'm sure this has been posted already, but this seems like a major fuck-up:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ters-abroad-denied-postal-votes-a7098271.html

Interesting. This could be a way to repeating the referendum, I hope there are already laywers on this.

 

[RK9039]

Brexiteers: Ha Ha. . We're leaving EU. FU. . . Ha Ha
EU: OK, Sorry about that; Can you please leave ASAP?

Brexiteers: Did you hear us . . . We're leaving?
EU: We did; Do you mind invoking article 50 as soon as you can?

Brexiteers: F Off. . . You won't tell us what to do. We're not leaving.
EU: Well when are you leaving?

Brexiteers: We don't know.

Typical British people. We're a nation of gobshites.

 

[PackAPunchedMick]

Has anyone from the Leave shown their faces today?

Why would they? their job is done, nows its all pen to paper time. They dont need to continue their campaigning due to losing the vote, they spend it doing something constructive.

Spoiler

apart from Farage, he's probably drinking

 

[dealer-]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36630326



Thanks Angie :')

Finally some common sense, makes me feel a bit better about things.

 

[El Topo]

People expecting a soft line from Merkel when there will be elections next year (and there is an enormous political pressure on her already) are fooling themselves.

 

[azyless]

TBF it is all new, if remain had won it was just carry on as normal, but now we have to start from scratch so of course there is no 'real' plan, just ideas of what should happen now as until we talk to the EU no one knows what we will get

Oh well if they have ideas, then, seems reasonable.

 

[Uzzy]

Yeah I think it's more about that than racism. There's a lot of resentment that never got addressed from the Thatcher years. The old coal fields finally getting to damage London for leaving them behind.

Immigration pressures are a real thing but Westminster is fucking useless, it's really hard to bash it with FPTP. One person, one vote and it all unravels.

Exactly. The Guardian's had some great pieces on this, from Owen Jones, John Harris and one today from Ian Jack. People in those communities have felt ignored and isolated and mocked for decades, and they finally had a chance to rage against that. It's a tragedy that it came to this, that it took Brexit for the well off to realise that those people existed.

I think I can blame them for giving people worst than the tories, more power.

If you are from the worker classes you don't want people like Farange and Johnson leading your country.

Exactly why people on the left need to get their act together now and figure out how to prevent Boris and Farage reshaping the country post-Brexit.

 

[TatteredHat]

Yes because a rushed decision with nothing in place to replace the incredibly complex deals and mechanisms that are already in place will be super helpful to everyone. There is an awful lot of work to do for thousands of companies and organisations.

I'm only talking about actually setting that whole process in motion, not kicking the UK out tomorrow. It'll be years before the leave is finalized but delaying the start of the process is silly.

 

[kmag]

So why are the EU pressurising the UK to declare article 50, if in reality as you say is does not make a difference to them...they seem awfully keen to get it done

Because the best thing for the wider economy is to pull the plaster off as quick as possible. Put this way bending over and giving the uk a really good deal isn't in the top 10 of next best things for the eu to do. If the uk drags it out expect no prenegiotation and possible suspension if the uk even sniffs at starting external negotiations with other countries while still a member. The Eu can wait the uk out, it's not preferable but they control almost all the levers all the uk controls is its own veto and it's article 50 intitation the pressure on Johnson and or May to pull the trigger in 3 months time will be unbearable

 

[Miles Quaritch]

RIP Tata Steel. https://t.co/tEIJZwmOuW

I'm shocked, but don't worry, UK manufacturing will bounce back through the great British spirit.

Why would they? their job is done, nows its all pen to paper time. They dont need to continue their campaigning due to losing the vote, they spend it doing something constructive.

Spoiler

apart from Farage, he's probably drinking

To begin to lay out a plan of what they intend to do and when they intend to respond to EU calls for starting the negotiation? They are the ones who are essentially in charge of things right now, they are dictating the message and they are keeping their heads down and staying out of sight.

 

[Tak3n]

Interesting. This could be a way to repeating the referendum, I hope there are already laywers on this.

you can not blame another countries postal service for a repeat of the referendum.... it is like taking the Government to court because they held a referendum on a day it rained

 

[nOoblet16]

RIP Tata Steel. https://t.co/tEIJZwmOuW

And their biggest plant is in....Wales.
The prophecy of Leave voters being the most affected continues.

I'm shocked, but don't worry, UK manufacturing will bounce back through the great British spirit.

We'll come back stronger than before !!
With nothing but just our spirits.

 

[TheTux]

Brexiteers: Ha Ha. . We're leaving EU. FU. . . Ha Ha
EU: OK, Sorry about that; Can you please leave ASAP?

Brexiteers: Did you hear us . . . We're leaving?
EU: We did; Do you mind invoking article 50 as soon as you can?

Brexiteers: F Off. . . You won't tell us what to do. We're not leaving.
EU: Well when are you leaving?

Brexiteers: We don't know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgKHSNqxa8

 

[PJV3]

Exactly. The Guardian's had some great pieces on this, from Owen Jones, John Harris and one today from Ian Jack. People in those communities have felt ignored and isolated and mocked for decades, and they finally had a chance to rage against that. It's a tragedy that it came to this, that it took Brexit for the well off to realise that those people existed.



Exactly why people on the left need to get their act together now and figure out how to prevent Boris and Farage reshaping the country post-Brexit.

Sadly we're going back to the old system of Westminster, safe seats and FPTP, the left is screwed. We will have no voice going forward especially if Scotland sods off.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Exactly. The Guardian's had some great pieces on this, from Owen Jones, John Harris and one today from Ian Jack. People in those communities have felt ignored and isolated and mocked for decades, and they finally had a chance to rage against that. It's a tragedy that it came to this, that it took Brexit for the well off to realise that those people existed.



Exactly why people on the left need to get their act together now and figure out how to prevent Boris and Farage reshaping the country post-Brexit.

They're basically burning the country to the ground to get back at Westminster. Cutting your nose off to spite your face is a fitting expression for those people.