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The UK votes to leave the European Union

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Arksy

Member
What was the bad trade deal? You must know of some since you're convinced it's great to make new ones.

What do you mean? Are you asking what trade deals the EU made on our behalf which I might find disagreeable? None of them, that's not the point. The problem is that the EU has very few trade deals. The trade deal with Australia was blocked by tomato farmers in Italy, the trade deal with Canada is being blocked by Romania who have an issue with the issuance of Canadian Visas to Romanians.

Britain could make trade deals with countries it has very strong links to in a timely manner which would benefit both sides.
 
Does the deal currently being negotiated between Canada and the EU also include freedom of movement then? Because I thought that is what Boris is currently proposing.
Boris Johnson isn't proposing anything that will happen because he's an idiot. But what he's blathered about goes beyond a free trade agreement.
So what are the realistic chances that Ireland is unified, Scotland is independent (or form a Gaelic Union with Northern Ireland), and London becomes an independent city-state if the UK actually leaves the EU?
New solution London, Scotland and NI become "the UK" - stay in the EU. The other parts secede. Everyone wins.
 
No, no it wouldn't.

We lose all power we currently have in the EU and get nothing in return.

It's literally a worse version of what we have now in every single way.
That's what he was saying. UK going EEA would be absolutely fantastic for Brussels (e.g. the continent). At least after the shitshow is over, that is (with markets in turmoil for the next couple years even).
 
That's a comforting thought isn't it. If you're not "in the club" you're screwed. And people wonder where Euro-skepticism comes from LOL.

The UK had a good deal as an EU member and you're now saying even that is a negative for you? Ever thought it might be the Leave side's attitude that is unreasonable?
 

Calabi

Member
Hardly, the UK gets to make trade deals on its own now.

And each deal with each country will take at least 10 years, and there's over 50 countries. We dont even have enough lawyers to do all the trade deals(and this is quoted not word for word but from a lawyer).
 

justjohn

Member
I've been reading about EEA and it seems pretty good. Obviously the free movement will be the crust here but overall seems like a pretty good deal. If the EU will let us have it that is.
 
What do you mean? Are you asking what trade deals the EU made on our behalf which I might find disagreeable? None of them, that's not the point. The problem is that the EU has very few trade deals. The trade deal with Australia was blocked by tomato farmers in Italy, the trade deal with Canada is being blocked by Romania who have an issue with the issuance of Canadian Visas to Romanians.

Britain could make trade deals with countries it has very strong links to in a timely manner which would benefit both sides.

Uh huh.

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jonno394

Member
I've been reading about EEA and it seems pretty good. Obviously the free movement will be the crust here but overall seems like a pretty good deal. If the EU will let us have it that is.

Pretty good deal? There's no point "leaving" the EU if you're going to do EEA as your basically still in it, but with less say.
 

Bennicus

Member
You know deals are a two-way thing, right? Not just "I want this". You give and take. You bargain. You use your leverage. Right now, we have almost none. You must see this.

Even if we had absolutely incredible leverage, the EU will want to make an example of us to avoid other countries getting similar ideas about leaving. We're not going to get "great" deals, or even "fair" deals, they will be what is technically known as "shitty" deals or "no" deals.

People can claim the EU will still want to trade with us, which is true, but if you had the choice of "more trade with UK, other members start leaving" or "less trade with UK, keep everyone else in" which would you choose?
 
That's a comforting thought isn't it. If you're not "in the club" you're screwed. And people wonder where Euro-skepticism comes from LOL.
Right now, it's more "if you're catastrophically stupid enough to fuck your economy hard and then decide to wait it out while you're bleeding just to show them who's boss". It's not so much about not being in the club as being in limbo and thinking this is fine.
 
You know deals are a two-way thing, right? Not just "I want this". You give and take. You bargain. You use your leverage. Right now, we have almost none. You must see this.

It makes sense if you believe that the rest of the EU was holding the UK back. Like if the UK has specific exports or industries that theoretically wouldn't be best served by the EU, or considered a high enough priority for them.

I can't think of any, though. English Butlers for China's new rich?
 

Zaph

Member
Complete savaging from NYT's Opinion Pages: Philppe Legrain: This Is Just the Start of the Brexit’s Economic Disaster

Experts are, of course, known to make mistakes. But in this case, the people who voted for Brexit will pay a big price for ignoring economic expertise. The harmful effects of this vote are both immediate and lasting.

Britons are already worse off. The pound has — so far — plunged by nearly 9 percent against the dollar, slashing the value of British assets, with higher import prices likely to follow. The stock market has also taken a hit. The prices of property, most British people’s main asset, are almost certain to fall, too. While Mark Carney, the governor of the Bank of England, has already pledged 250 billion pounds (about $345 billion) to support the financial system and has said he could offer more if necessary, central bankers cannot protect against an enduring economic shock.

...

The young, the higher educated and city dwellers, the most dynamic members of Britain’s economy, voted to Remain. They were outvoted by the old, the less educated and non-urban English, who often rely on taxpayer largess. With economic opportunities stunted, everyone will suffer for Leave voters wrongly blaming hard-working, taxpaying European migrants for everything they dislike about modern Britain and wrongly trusting economic charlatans like Mr. Gove.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Chief Minister of Gibraltar asks to keep London, Gibraltar inside the EU after Brexit.

He suggested that Article 50, the part of the EU Treaty which legislates for a member state to withdraw, might not need to be activated and that instead there could be a "renegotiation only of the meaning of what United Kingdom means for European purposes".

He added: "For example, it would be one way to give effect to the will of the British people to strip out of the member state United Kingdom definition those nations of the United Kingdom that have voted to leave - for example the Welsh nation and the English nation.

"It may even be possible to maintain London as part of the regions of the United Kingdom to which the European treaty applies.

"This is complicated stuff, but it is a very complicated result that we have been visited with and my position on behalf of the people of Gibraltar is to try to give effect to their will."

I can't deal with Picardo's foolery.
 

Arksy

Member
I said almost none. Against the rest of the EU, right now. No, I'm not kidding.

Anyone saying this has lost all sense. This is pure hysterics. The UK is one of the world's biggest economies, is one of the top ten manufacturing countries in the world. It has ties of language and law, of history and trade to every single continent on the planet.

Australia and Canada have already signalled that they want to start doing a deal ASAP.
 

theaface

Member
Even if we had absolutely incredible leverage, the EU will want to make an example of us to avoid other countries getting similar ideas about leaving. We're not going to get "great" deals, or even "fair" deals, they will be what is technically known as "shitty" deals or "no" deals.

People can claim the EU will still want to trade with us, which is true, but if you had the choice of "more trade with UK, other members start leaving" or "less trade with UK, keep everyone else in" which would you choose?

Pushing against an open door here buddy. I'm about as pro-Remain as they come and it boggles the mind how some people are still in full on denial/bargaining mode about how much worse Brexit makes our trade position.
 

Micael

Member
Hardly, the UK gets to make trade deals on its own now.

Yeah which clearly are going to be much better than those of the EU, what with the EU being one of the largest economies in the world many times greater than that of the UK, this before even taking into account that any country that would give better terms to the UK than to the EU would be damaging their relationship with the EU, although I guess getting better terms with Russia is now a possibility.
 
Britain has no leverage? You're kidding right?

Our manufacturing ain't fantastic right now (EDIT: okay I probably don't know what I'm on about here) and we aren't exactly overflowing with raw materials. What is our leverage? Because our best asset is probably the best and brightest of our workforce and they can be easily lured abroad.

And our historical and cultural significance doesn't mean a lot if companies can conduct the their current business more easily within the EU.
 

jelly

Member
Phase 1 - No new referendum
Phase 2 - EU will not negotiate until article 50 has been initiated.
Phase 3 - UK demand terms that will never be accepted by the EU
Phase 3 - Economy gets worse
Phase 4 - It's best for the UK to remain in the EU under old terms which are the best among the member states. EU agrees.
Phase 5 - Thank fuck for that. Party meltdown continues.

Make it so.
 

Arksy

Member
Yeah which clearly are going to be much better than those of the EU, what with the EU being one of the largest economies in the world many times greater than that of the UK, this before even taking into account that any country that would give better terms to the UK than to the EU would be damaging their relationship with the EU, although I guess getting better terms with Russia is now a possibility.

Please, explain how Switzerland's free trade deal with China negatively impacts on its relationship with the EU.
 
No, in 2038 we can have an almost similar trade deal with China. But it will have a union flag on it.

Well that assumes two things...

  • The union flag still exits in 2038
  • China actively feels its in their interest to sign up a trade deal with us (hint, we don't exactly export a lot out that way)
 
It makes sense if you believe that the rest of the EU was holding the UK back. Like if the UK has specific exports or industries that theoretically wouldn't be best served by the EU, or considered a high enough priority for them.

I can't think of any, though. English Butlers for China's new rich?

I've got this one. Strawberries. That's according to my Y9 students anyway. Our strawberry market has been held back by the EU and we'll now be able to trade our strawberries with China (well known for their strawberry consumption) and the US.

I'm not kidding - this was his idea to save the UKs trade worries.

Edit - and this is the post that makes me a member?!
 

El-Suave

Member
The mind job British politicians have done on the public apparently over many years is amazing. "No control" over your own laws is nonsense, especially if you're a big country like Britain and can very well shape some of the laws that are EU imposed. Most laws and rules you make yourself or you sit on your a.. instead and moan. The failure of the British political class is epic, and the easy way out they chose to cover their own inadequate actions to improve structural problems in their country is nothing short of despicable.
If the UK were a small country in the EU with huge debt and a weak economy I would sympathize.
 
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