• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The UK votes to leave the European Union

Status
Not open for further replies.

BKK

Member
The EU would never compromise on free movement. That is a crack inspired fantasy.

Of course they'll compromise, and so will UK. UK still retains the "nuclear option" (send all EU residents home), but nobody wants to do that (it's the equivalent of "MAD", and I doubt that anybody would actually do it). It will be a compromise, "semi-freedom of movement", UK is far more important to Germany than Norway and Switzerland. UK will come to a fair (UK will have to make some concessions) agreement with Germany, and Germany will convince the other countries to agree. France won't be happy, but will make some extra concessions out of Germany to agree. At the end of the day France will be slightly happy to get rid of UK and be the predominant driver of the EU, along with being the only nuclear military power.

Germany will feel the centre of balance in Europe shift towards France, and want to counter-balance that somewhat by bringing the UK into some kind of all-envoping "NATO European Defence Wing".

Personally I see the UK continuing to be a member of the EU in all but name. They'll contribute less (but probably still something) towards EU. A part of the single market in most ways (probably some exceptions). Freedom of movements: less than now, but more than any other country. Foreign policy: associate member, as long as UK and EU agree, then there will be a joint front. Some minor differences, but not a shift in global politics.
 
Political science says that the Queen makes Britain more democratic by providing a nonpartisan veto point for resolving constitutional crises. I would support a Queen of America, but I think there's not much chance we get one of those because they're kind of legacy items at this point. So I wouldn't be so quick to get rid of the one you've got!

Bummer about Charles, though.

We can annex Canada and scrap our presidential system for their parliamentary democracy or in the event of a Trump victory the blue states can secede and ask to be admitted to Canada as provinces.
 

Alx

Member
Surely it would mean that we would'nt be incharge of our own forces, is that a good thing in your opinion.

You can still be in charge of your own troops in addition of the ones put in common. Like most countries already do with NATO or UN.
 

Davilmar

Member
I'd like to know this too; I've haven't really heard a convincing argument from someone who's against it. At worst, it might be ineffectual in terms of power projection, given how hard it is to get all countries on the same page.

I am an American, but what is the point of having a EU Armed Forces if there is NATO?
 

Audioboxer

Member
Dear UKGAF,

I am disappointed. About many things. I'm disappointed with the result of the Brexit referendum, with the attitude of the political stage facing the result, with the overbearing consequences I and my family and friends have to face because of it, but most of all I'm disappointed with you and me. Because of the huge flux happening in this thread I'll probably write some of the things I've already written in the past two posts I've posted here.

We're at a really poisoned place in Western democracy right now. I didn't want to believe it.. I actually refused to believe it. I thought the histrionics were overblown in public and people didn't actually thing this way. It didn't make sense to me that people could be that angry and irrational. I knew from my own work that the situation, objectively viewed, was not bad enough to warrant that kind of fury. And so people couldn't actually be feeling that level of rage... couldn't actually have allowed themselves to tribalise that much and that the political elite, beneath its public bluster, actually did have the ability to assess and understand and improve public condition. That what I was observing had to be a distortion of reality, not a reasonable reflection of it. And that the basic tenets of my understanding of society were, deep down, the same ones everyone else had. The universalisation of reason, of fact, of idea. That i was not uniquely more perceptive, intelligent or reasonable than anyone else... i simply worked at it more diligently. But what if nearly all of that is wrong. That's what these last few days have done to me. I proved myself that I wasn't smarter than anyone else, but I still came to be so so disappointed in myself regarding all the rest.

For a long time I personally tried to be a neutral objective side that even supported the establishment and politicians because besides the usual har-har of politics are bad I thought I understood there's a lot in play and many many things I could not grasp and not be able to consider in the bigger picture. But I think what's happening with Brexit is right now a "Santa Claus is not real" moment for me. Because it's not a simple barely-revelation a la Trump or any other crazy directives you can usually risk assess by simply acknowledging they're crazy... no, here is the horrible revelation that the entire establishment is a false and shallow red herring. And for me to see that one of the biggest powers in the world would gamble like little kids with the thought of no repercussions is disheartening for the entire lot of world politics. There's no more trust. These were supposed to be the people who had it under control. These were supposed to be the opposition of all the other crazies in the world. Sure... it's equally parts fascinating, it's just not the right kind of fascinating. So now I'm extremely disappointed in them as well.

Once again we become the casualty of a game we don't take part in. A package of dangerous, manipulative lies, hatred, fear and vitriol, wrapped up in the flag and peddled with malice contempt to a frightened, febrile population by a cabal of half wits and gormless buffoons who have not the slightest appreciation of the gravity of what they are proposing or the faintest idea how they would accomplish it. And we were the gamble. And this is actually what I want to get to...

I'm disappointed in you. We've managed to play their game and go at each other's throats. We're going at the throats of the leave voters calling them racists, uneducated or old and simply call them out for fucking up our future. At the same time they act and react to our own calling outs with horrific manifestations. And I actually believe it's not their fault... Sure, there are racists and nostalgia-driven people, but generalising is the equivalent of discrimination from the very people we so much advocate against. Most people who were pro-Leave voted for an illusion, for something that is not happening, most people had concerns that were met by a shamefully untrue Leave campaign playing with people's weaknesses without actually being able to come through.. a shameful Leave campaign made only stronger by an even more horrifying Remain campaign that told people they are nothing and they will be crushed and burned if they vote against what the Remain says. And yes, there are a lot of uneducated people on the matter that voted and counted, but it's not their fault their not educated on the matter... how could you be if you're isolated and fed by such violently aggressive campaigns?! The people in charge were supposed to take care of these people, to make them understand... How is it that people voted out of EU from places so heavily funded by EU (and them not knowing about it?!).

And yet... we're still here blaming each other, while the entire political cohort looks and says "we're fine... let them play it out". They don't care... I mean they gambled the geo-political and economical features of the country so far. The people are just a blimp on the way. If they can get away with a simple "abandoning ship" and without actually being accountable, all is good for them. And now a lot of people are resigning to the fact that we are where we are and we have to do this, saying "ok... what's done is done and let's get the better deal out of EU for us". But that's not true, we shouldn't be the ones who need to solve their problem and we definitely shouldn't be the ones who should take the blame. This was all their idea and (cue in MGSV jokes) “They played us like a damn fiddle!”. So stop blaming the person next to you that suffers as much as you do even if s/he doesn't realise it. And blame the entire fucking block of politicians that put us in this mess. And I know people support different politicians and they still stick by them, but fuck all of them... we should give tough love to all those who we support because they all took us for granted. You love Corbyn, he fucked us. You love Cameron, he fucked us. You love Johnson, he fucked us. EVERYONE here did. We need to push them to make the right thing... I'm disappointed in you UKGAF if you continue to blame each other, while supporting the guilty people who simply get away with it. But I still have hope... As Journey says... Don't stop believing

Here, for reading all of this ... a picture with BoJo right before getting what he should rightly deserve.

Bro I just made the spare bed and put out an Irn Bru in a glass of ice for you to come up and stay with me for free in Scotland.

In other words good post.
 

EmiPrime

Member
After ten years or so it would become a Malbork equivalent though. Basically an ex-castle instead of a "present castle".

Buckingham Palace has enough cache to survive without the royals. If they were kicked out more of the palace would be accessible to tourists too. It's also in the middle of London.
 

Izuna

Banned
I will stop thinking Leavers are ignorant or silly when they look at the effects in the face and don't pretend it's not a bad thing. There shouldn't be 17 million pro-Leavers left.

EDIT: I'm empowered to say that the KFC dude put Mayonnaise in my Mini Fillet burger. I repeated... 20 times.... over and over.... no mayonnaise. That's it, invoke article 50. I just wasted about £3... that's like a bazillion dollars now.
 

kmag

Member
From what I remember, the UK monarchy is not just a case of eternal hereditary presidency. It is basically a case of royal family renting loads of ground to the state under a substandard rate. So, no, pal, not only there's nothing particularly disgusting about this, the moment the monarchy is abolished, they're taking their sweet profits with themselves unless Parliament would separately set up an act to steal it which would be highly problematic for rather obvious reasons.

Actually the deal for the 'Crown Estate' was done in exchange for the parliament taking on the Crown (national debt) at the time. George the 3rd was no accountant. If they take back the lands they can take on the debt and the cost of paying for the civil service (which was also part of the deal)
 

Tyaren

Member
I'm actually super tempted to ask J.K. Rowling that question

No need to ask her. ;) In the books it is indicated that wizard schools are supranational. Hogwarts is the wizard school of all of Great Britain and Ireland, Beauxbatons is not just the wizard school of France but of all of Western Europe (excluding the British Isles) and Durmstrang is apparently the school for the rest of Europe. At one point it is mentioned that the Malfoys considered to enroll Draco in Durmstrang rather than in Hogwarts, so going to any European wizard school is also no problem.
When the upcoming movie "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them" was announced Rowling also revealed other schools for American, Asian and African regions.

Lol, outed myself as quite the nerd right now. XD
 

EmiPrime

Member
I disagree with having another referendum, they just need to ignore it out of necessity for us to prosper. It's not binding, was a mistake, ignore it, move on and look to fix the issues that have been raised by the vote to at least repair bridges with the people of the UK.

Barely anybody from Labour and the Tories have the courage to do that. MPs know that in many constituencies that will mean losing their seat and for certain high profile Tories it means giving up on their ambitions to be PM.

See how many places UKIP came second in the 2015 GE: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...-How-it-all-could-have-been-so-different.html

The far right is ready and waiting...
 

Doopliss

Member

Can we all agree that if there's going to be a second referendum that it's better to announce it sooner rather than later?

We saw a bit of it 5 years ago with the Alternative Vote, where a good poll that would have actually given people more say in politics was promoted with "She needs a maternity unit, not a referendum. Say no to AV", which was really the "£350 a week" of its day.

And of course, people voted No, asked for where the new maternity units were, and..... zip. I wouldn't be surprised actually if the REMAIN areas corresponded greatly with those that voted for AV.
The fact that electoral reform got smacked down so hard has made me really struggle to understand the idea that the brexit result is in large part driven by anti-establishment sentiment.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
We can annex Canada and scrap our presidential system for their parliamentary democracy or in the event of a Trump victory the blue states can secede and ask to be admitted to Canada as provinces.
Why would you want a system where senators are appointed and get to stay in the senate for life?
 
Buckingham Palace has enough cache to survive without the royals. If they were kicked out more of the palace would be accessible to tourists too. It's also in the middle of London.

Survive, maybe, but the overall pull would reduce.

Again, half the Europe has castles. Some are also close to other attractions. A lot of unique pull of British ones has to do with British monarchy being present and occasionally doing stuff. There's a reason you see a lot more of Elizabeth and Harry on the international media than, say, Juan Carlos.

(I wonder if aforementioned royal grounds cover castles.)
 

AntChum

Member
Buckingham Palace has enough cache to survive without the royals. If they were kicked out more of the palace would be accessible to tourists too. It's also in the middle of London.
We could charge the daughters of rich, foreign businessmen thousands of pounds to a spa weekend there, where they'll find themselves literally treated like royalty. Throw in a couple stuffed corgis and we're on to a real money spinner.

Heck, turn the entire UK into a King Arthur-style themepark. If Leave voters want to turn back the clock, let's turn it all the way back.

#MakeBritainMedievalAgain
 

axisofweevils

Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
Can we all agree that if there's going to be a second referendum that it's better to announce it sooner rather than later?

The fact that electoral reform got smacked down so hard has made me really struggle to understand the idea that the brexit result is in large part driven by anti-establishment sentiment.

Look at this.http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...t-campaign-that-deserves-to-lose-2223722.html Remind you of anything? Almost exactly the same tactics.

Just as shameless is the implication of the No camp's adverts that a No vote will mean more money for public services. Voting no would apparently mean, according to the campaign's adverts, a state loan for the Forgemasters steel plant in Sheffield, flakjackets for our soldiers, and, most emotively of all, cardiac equipment for sick babies.
 

Zaph

Member
Heck, turn the entire UK into a King Arthur-style themepark. If Leave voters want to turn back the clock, let's turn it all the way back.

#MakeBritainMedievalAgain
Given the current state of our electorate, you could probably run on that policy and pick up a few seats.
 

s_mirage

Member
I am an American, but what is the point of having a EU Armed Forces if there is NATO?

I won't play down the importance of NATO, but an issue that I see with it is that by far its largest member is the United States. The reason I see this as an issue is that since WWII there's been an attitude, from a significant number of European countries, that America will roll in to save the day if the shit ever hits the fan. IMO this shouldn't be the case; Europe as an entity should have the ability to defend itself, or pursue military action, without requiring US involvement. Europe shouldn't rely upon, or take for granted, America's military support.

I'll be honest though, I'm not sure that an EU army would be terribly effective due to political infighting between nations, but I don't see it as something that must be avoided at all costs for nebulous reasons, like some leave supporters seem to.

Can we all agree that if there's going to be a second referendum that it's better to announce it sooner rather than later?

They need to announce something sooner rather later. They also need to crack down hard on the racist scum that the referendum seems to have emboldened.
 

Maledict

Member
We saw a bit of it 5 years ago with the Alternative Vote, where a good poll that would have actually given people more say in politics was promoted with "She needs a maternity unit, not a referendum. Say no to AV", which was really the "£350 a week" of its day.

And of course, people voted No, asked for where the new maternity units were, and..... zip. I wouldn't be surprised actually if the REMAIN areas corresponded greatly with those that voted for AV.

Can confirm that's the case. Lambeth was the highest pro-EU vote in the mainland UK and also the highest pro-AV vote in the UK. The few places where AV won were the places where the remain vote topped 70%.
 

Audioboxer

Member
I'll take that when I can with open arms and huge thanks.

*High Five*

But yeah without a doubt one of the most powerful cards politicians play is to drive a stake between the people and let them fight. As when we fight each other we confidently look at our higher power of choice to back us up and be used as the reason we're fighting our fellow country people in the first place.

They then play the love thy neighbour card when the going gets rough to absolve them of any of the decisive shit they started in the first place. Most of them probably being close rich friends behind closed doors and putting on an act in front of the camera.

Moral is we suffer, we genuinely hate each other and they sit back and stroke their egos over their acting career, popularity and wealth.

A battle of ideas sometimes leads us into the trenches to debate with others but at times we need to look at some of the fights we get in and ask ourselves are we really fighting with the right person? A lot of the time no, the fight should be aimed at the fuckers causing the mess and trying to call our bluffs. Big governments are often bloated corrupt carcases filled with opportunistic sadists and all round terrible people.
 

Brannon

Member
hEqfyh1.png


no take-backsies :p
 

Breakage

Member
Or maybe Asians are unhappy at the discrimination at non-EU migrants face. For example in the restaurant industry there is currently a shortage of Bangladeshi chefs, as children of Bnagladeshi immigrants have gone into other professions, but as non-EU migrants they have little chance of arriving into this country being able to fill the skills shortage.

But no it's because Asians are racist and how dare they decide not to act like a dependable voting bloc for the left.

Asians aren't doing themselves any favours by aligning with the side that attracts racists. By supporting Brexit they've contributed to the growing anti-immigrant sentiment.
 

BKK

Member
Asians can be pretty racist/intolerant towards even other minorities. Not really a wonderful argument in support of dumb bigotry not being mostly behind this result.

Of course, racism isn't dependant on race. I was just pointing out that this referendum was not based on race, just immigration. It's easy to connect the two, but most people in the UK aren't racist, most don't mind immigration (and emigration). The problem is that since the UK allowed the new EU ascension freedom of movement to the UK, the numbers have been massively one way.

Unlike Australia, the UK isn't a country in need of more immigration. It's a relatively small island with a government target of less than 100,000 increase in net migration/year. This is in addition to natural growth (births/deaths). Immigration has actually been well above governments targets for years, housing hasn't even kept up with the initial demands, let alone the increased demands of immigrations. Services also haven't, doctors, schools etc.

Of course, more people is better for the economy, employers, landlords etc, but that benefit isn't shared equally, it all goes to a small percentage, at the expense of the poor who have to either pay more for a roof over their heads, or see a smaller roof over their heads. When I grew up living in a bedsit (room in a building with a shared bathroom) was almost unheard of ... nearly the lowest that you could fall. Now it's common, times have changed, but it's not the well off and middle classes that pay for it, it's the working class. Of course the middle classes and better off benefit from cheap labour. They benefit from the EU, at the expense of the working class. It's why we see a difference between the way graduate voters went, and non-graduate. Some would like to say education, but the real reason is obvious.
 

SOR5

Member
We could charge the daughters of rich, foreign businessmen thousands of pounds to a spa weekend there, where they'll find themselves literally treated like royalty. Throw in a couple stuffed corgis and we're on to a real money spinner.

Heck, turn the entire UK into a King Arthur-style themepark. If Leave voters want to turn back the clock, let's turn it all the way back.

#MakeBritainMedievalAgain

Thou hath to be this tall to embark
 
Personally I see the UK continuing to be a member of the EU in all but name. They'll contribute less (but probably still something) towards EU. A part of the single market in most ways (probably some exceptions). Freedom of movements: less than now, but more than any other country. Foreign policy: associate member, as long as UK and EU agree, then there will be a joint front. Some minor differences, but not a shift in global politics.
I'm going to assume in this fantasy scenario the UK retains financial passporting and basically unfettered services export access. Strange how compromise involve Germany apparently forcing the other 26 countries to give the UK everything they want.
 

Kazaam

Member
Though I am not from the UK, and this was not addressed to me, here here.

Excellent...Excellent post.



Specifically, this..
(Can say the same thing about Trump here in America)

This is an introspective post that will be lost on the vast majority of people.

Your post...is representastive of the original idea of democracy that the West must find its way back to. We have strayed from the path and allowed charlatans to masquerade as leaders.

Thanks. I do think the entire world is facing similar dilemmas. And unfortunately in most of the cases the same results show... the people get the blame, more conflicts and tensions arise, while the responsible ones take a breath telling themselves depending on how outlandish and violent their approaches and exploitations of weakness were... either "uuu... that was close" or "that didn't go as planned. shit..let's lay low until this goes away"
 

jelly

Member
Barely anybody from Labour and the Tories have the courage to do that. MPs know that in many constituencies that will mean losing their seat and for certain high profile Tories it means giving up on their ambitions to be PM.

See how many places UKIP came second in the 2015 GE: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...-How-it-all-could-have-been-so-different.html

The far right is ready and waiting...

I don't believe UKIP would get much further at all. No way are Tory voters going to jump ship to them in any huge number. The writing is on the wall, we can't have a good economy without taking on EU rules and free movement of people so they have sod all to complain about and reach for, it's done. The politicians need to do the sensible thing and nullify the vote, take it on the chin and go back to normal.
 

EmiPrime

Member
Survive, maybe, but the overall pull would reduce.

Again, half the Europe has castles. Some are also close to other attractions. A lot of unique pull of British ones has to do with British monarchy being present and occasionally doing stuff. There's a reason you see a lot more of Elizabeth and Harry on the international media than, say, Juan Carlos.

(I wonder if aforementioned royal grounds cover castles.)

I think it would more than survive even if some of the allure might fade for some. The bastards still aren't worth the £330m a year they cost us either way.

We could charge the daughters of rich, foreign businessmen thousands of pounds to a spa weekend there, where they'll find themselves literally treated like royalty. Throw in a couple stuffed corgis and we're on to a real money spinner.

Heck, turn the entire UK into a King Arthur-style themepark. If Leave voters want to turn back the clock, let's turn it all the way back.

#MakeBritainMedievalAgain

I think you're onto something here. Let's have the guy who played Joffrey as head of state too and the Iron Throne.

I don't believe UKIP would get much further at all. No way are Tory voters going to jump ship to them in any huge number. The writing is on the wall, we can't have a good economy without taking on EU rules and free movement of people so they have sod all to complain about and reach for, it's done. The politicians need to do the sensible thing and nullify the vote, take it on the chin and go back to normal.

If we were capable of doing the sensible thing the Leavers wouldn't have won. UKIP are going to eat Labour's lunch in the next GE and Tory voters have been jumping ship to UKIP already.
 
I wouldn't say so. It seems crazy though to have a referendum of this magnitude only require over 50% of the vote to pass. That is on the government.

Again, from a legal standpoint this particular referendum is nothing more than a non-sampled poll. The tricky part is that it was played earlier as an authority by the politicians who will get remembered for ignoring it if they decide to. If it wasn't, Cameron would just use the 4% argument and proceed to ask for some bargaining chip from EU, and that would be it.
 
I'll be honest though, I'm not sure that an EU army would be terribly effective due to political infighting between nations, but I don't see it as something that must be avoided at all costs for nebulous reasons, like some leave supporters seem to.

Imagine the fallout every time England leaves an international football championship in shame in a place with lots of different nationalities and lots of weapons
 

That is absolutely the most moronic way we could deal with this. If we had a second referendum I could easily see it being a leave win again and not only that I could see the leave side winning by an even larger margin. People are being fooled by the media again which as always is painting a skewed picture. There is still huge support for the result and for it to be honoured.

So sorry Richie that would be a really really bad idea.
 
Asians can be pretty racist/intolerant towards even other minorities. Not really a wonderful argument in support of dumb bigotry not being mostly behind this result.
What's with your oh so casual hate of Asians? Asians can be racist? That's odd... It's almost like what race you are doesn't dictate whether you're racist or not...

#EXPOSINGTHETRUTH

SMH
 

Zaph

Member
I'm going to assume in this fantasy scenario the UK retains financial passporting and basically unfettered services export access. Strange how compromise involve Germany apparently forcing the other 26 countries to give the UK everything they want.
British exceptionalism strikes again.

Free movement restrictions
Economic recovery

Pick one, we can't have both.
 

Mrbob

Member
Again, from a legal standpoint this particular referendum is nothing more than a non-sampled poll. The tricky part is that it was played earlier as an authority by the politicians who will get remembered for ignoring it if they decide to. If it wasn't, Cameron would just use the 4% argument and proceed to ask for some bargaining chip from EU, and that would be it.

Considering the Leave campaign misliead on major issues and the Remain campaign was right on the fallout, I'm surprised he didn't do this if he had this power. Instead he bailed out and said not my problem.
 

Breakage

Member
I don't believe UKIP would get much further at all. No way are Tory voters going to jump ship to them in any huge number. The writing is on the wall, we can't have a good economy without taking on EU rules and free movement of people so they have sod all to complain about and reach for, it's done. The politicians need to do the sensible thing and nullify the vote, take it on the chin and go back to normal.

Yeah. They just need to stop with this we need to uphold democracy,respect the people stuff. There's no point having democracy when you've ruined the country. Going ahead with the "will of the people" has disaster written all over it.
 

Kazaam

Member
*High Five*

But yeah without a doubt one of the most powerful cards politicians play is to drive a stake between the people and let them fight. As when we fight each other we confidently look at our higher power of choice to back us up and be used as the reason we're fighting our fellow country people in the first place.

They then play the love thy neighbour card when the going gets rough to absolve them of any of the decisive shit they started in the first place. Most of them probably being close rich friends behind closed doors and putting on an act in front of the camera.

Moral is we suffer, we genuinely hate each other and they sit back and stroke their egos over their acting career, popularity and wealth.

A battle of ideas sometimes leads us into the trenches to debate with others but at times we need to look at some of the fights we get in and ask ourselves are we really fighting with the right person? A lot of the time no, the fight should be aimed at the fuckers causing the mess and trying to call our bluffs.

People opposed in ideology today might be surprised how much they have in common. The problem is that the "we genuinely hate each other" is for a whole lot of people a construct of the same politicians who start and feed this hate and later on change their mind about it blaming and shaming the people who supported them for it.
 

Izuna

Banned
If the government respected the people, we would have already invoked article 50. The big brains are trying to save us from ourselves.
 

Raven117

Member
Thanks. I do think the entire world is facing similar dilemmas. And unfortunately in most of the cases the same results show... the people get the blame, more conflicts and tensions arise, while the responsible ones take a breath telling themselves depending on how outlandish and violent their approaches and exploitations of weakness were... either "uuu... that was close" or "that didn't go as planned. shit..let's lay low until this goes away"

Indeed, the world is very much facing similar dilemmas...I thought it was just America going through it, but it seems much of the West is going through the exact same thing to one extent or another.

This is a time for leadership...Someone that inspires us all to be better in every way.

Perhaps England has a chance with a shake up with Cameron resigning?

U.S. has already pissed that opportunity away with Trump (and to a lesser extent, Clinton)...Republican or Democrat, neither of those two inspire and bring out the best in its citizens.
 

mid83

Member
The Daily Mail is an unreliable tabloid right? I ask as I've had a link sent to me a few times this evening from friends who I've argued against the Brexit with. The article essentially says that France/Germany have plans for a Euro Superstate that eventually will remove the ability for member nations to levy taxes or have a standing army.

I don't believe it as it seems like the Daily Mail is a tabloid, and I haven't seen this mentioned on any reputable site (BBC etc...) but I wanted to ask here.
 

Audioboxer

Member
People opposed in ideology today might be surprised how much they have in common. The problem is that the "we genuinely hate each other" is for a whole lot of people a construct of the same politicians who start and feed this hate and later on change their mind about it blaming and shaming people the people who supported them for it.

Basically lies everywhere.

It's the horrible truth that hits home for some that leads them to saying what is the point in voting? A harrowing thought as your vote is something you should cherish and always exercise... It's just easy to empathise with someone at a cross roads where they feel every path leads to another broken promise, take back or just nowhere at all.

Good people exist in politics it's just a shame many of the unsavoury characters manage to slime their way to the top of the ladder and poison a whole chalice for us to then have to consider drinking from.
 

BKK

Member
I'm going to assume in this fantasy scenario the UK retains financial passporting and basically unfettered services export access. Strange how compromise involve Germany apparently forcing the other 26 countries to give the UK everything they want.

Fantasy implies that it's what I would like to see. Not at all, I just expect their to be compromise on all sides and the end result won't be to everybodies liking (on either side). As a "leaver" I don't expect Boris to implement everything that the"leavers" want (he's pro immigration), but it would also be unsustainable for him argue for the status-quo. I also believe that Germany wants a harmonious exit, and wants to protect their manufacturers. This is not my wish, just my expectation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom