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The UK votes to leave the European Union

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B

Bony Manifesto

Member
jelly said:
I don't believe UKIP would get much further at all. No way are Tory voters going to jump ship to them in any huge number. The writing is on the wall, we can't have a good economy without taking on EU rules and free movement of people so they have sod all to complain about and reach for, it's done. The politicians need to do the sensible thing and nullify the vote, take it on the chin and go back to normal.
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My constituency, which has always been a safe Labour seat, voted over 70% to leave. UKIP have long since ceased to be a protest party for particularly right-wing Conservatives; they're now coming for disenchanted working class voters, and with Labour in its current ineffectual state, there's nobody to stop them.
 
T

Tyaren

Member
Doopliss said:
Can we all agree that if there's going to be a second referendum that it's better to announce it sooner rather than later?
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If there's a second referendum, what's stopping the Brexiteers from demanding a third one ,in case they lose that one, and then a fourth one and so on...

I think what we all should rather accept is that referenda of such complexity and immense implications should not be decided by direct democracy but by the parliament. What we right now see in the UK is basically the raging mob ruling.
 
H

hydrophilic attack

Member
mid83 said:
The Daily Mail is an unreliable tabloid right? I ask as I've had a link sent to me a few times this evening from friends who I've argued against the Brexit with. The article essentially says that France/Germany have plans for a Euro Superstate that eventually will remove the ability for member nations to levy taxes or have a standing army.

I don't believe it as it seems like the Daily Mail is a tabloid, and I haven't seen this mentioned on any reputable site (BBC etc...) but I wanted to ask here.
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There is a reason it's known as the Daily Fail
 
D

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
mid83 said:
The Daily Mail is an unreliable tabloid right? I ask as I've had a link sent to me a few times this evening from friends who I've argued against the Brexit with. The article essentially says that France/Germany have plans for a Euro Superstate that eventually will remove the ability for member nations to levy taxes or have a standing army.

I don't believe it as it seems like the Daily Mail is a tabloid, and I haven't seen this mentioned on any reputable site (BBC etc...) but I wanted to ask here.
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That's not a coincidence. The Daily Mail is a shitrag.
 
I

Izuna

Banned
mid83 said:
The Daily Mail is an unreliable tabloid right? I ask as I've had a link sent to me a few times this evening from friends who I've argued against the Brexit with. The article essentially says that France/Germany have plans for a Euro Superstate that eventually will remove the ability for member nations to levy taxes or have a standing army.

I don't believe it as it seems like the Daily Mail is a tabloid, and I haven't seen this mentioned on any reputable site (BBC etc...) but I wanted to ask here.
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look at their other articles
 
jm89

jm89

Member
mid83 said:
The Daily Mail is an unreliable tabloid right? I ask as I've had a link sent to me a few times this evening from friends who I've argued against the Brexit with. The article essentially says that France/Germany have plans for a Euro Superstate that eventually will remove the ability for member nations to levy taxes or have a standing army.

I don't believe it as it seems like the Daily Mail is a tabloid, and I haven't seen this mentioned on any reputable site (BBC etc...) but I wanted to ask here.
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Daily mail is like diarrhea.
 
M

More Fun To Compute

Member
mid83 said:
The Daily Mail is an unreliable tabloid right? I ask as I've had a link sent to me a few times this evening from friends who I've argued against the Brexit with. The article essentially says that France/Germany have plans for a Euro Superstate that eventually will remove the ability for member nations to levy taxes or have a standing army.

I don't believe it as it seems like the Daily Mail is a tabloid, and I haven't seen this mentioned on any reputable site (BBC etc...) but I wanted to ask here.
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The united states of europe was always a long term ideal for the EU but that seems to have taken so many blows it's hard to give it any credit as something to be concerned about.

EU army is something that would likely only happen with the consent of the USA. Have no illusions about who the military superpower is and who has the most influence over the EU.

As for control over economies you only have to look at Greece. Taking direct control over economies and removing powers from elected governments is the past and current reality not speculation.
 
D

Doopliss

Member
Tyaren said:
If there's a second referendum, what's stopping the Brexiteers from demanding a third one ,in case they lose that one, and then a fourth one and so on...

I think what we all should rather accept is that referenda of such complexity and immense implications should not be decided by direct democracy but by the parliament. What we right now see in the UK is basically the raging mob ruling.
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It could be made legally binding, like the AV referendum was.
 
K

Kazaam

Member
Raven117 said:
Indeed, the world is very much facing similar dilemmas...I thought it was just America going through it, but it seems much of the West is going through the exact same thing to one extent or another.

This is a time for leadership...Someone that inspires us all to be better in every way.

Perhaps England has a chance with a shake up with Cameron resigning?

U.S. has already pissed that opportunity away with Trump (and to a lesser extent, Clinton)...Republican or Democrat, neither of those two inspire and bring out the best in its citizens.
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Actually, in one way that's what I'm afraid of. I don't think this is a time for a 1 leadership. I think this is the time for tough love but for segregation and expecting a lot of people to show up. Unfortunately, people who are waiting for a leader are people who are waiting for a Saviour of sorts that leads most of these ultra-nationalist campaigns. I personally believe one Prince Charming is what was tried a not so long time ago with horrible results..
 
B

Betty

Banned
A golf club in the UK held a vote to allow women to become members.

Despite 60% agreeing that women should join, the vote was not passed as it was deemed so important, that it needed at least a two-thirds majority to go into effect.

The vote was in may.

After intense coverage as well as losing major contracts and tournaments, the club has decided to have yet another vote before the year is out.

And all this over whether or not women can become members.

Why does a private golf club have better terms and conditions on the way it's voting is handled, not to mention already setting up another vote compared to a nationwide decision to leave a union that will impacts millions for generations to come?
 
Z

Zaph

Member
BKK said:
Fantasy implies that it's what I would like to see. Not at all, I just expect their to be compromise on all sides and the end result won't be to everybodies liking (on either side). As a "leaver" I don't expect Boris to implement everything that the"leavers" want (he's pro immigration), but it would also be unsustainable for him argue for the status-quo. I also believe that Germany wants a harmonious exit, and wants to protect their manufacturers. This is not my wish, just my expectation.
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I would adjust your expectations.

The first thing Captain Boris did after "winning" was write an article which basically championed the statue quo.

And after everything is said and done, we will be begging for the old status quo.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
Betty said:
A golf club in the UK held a vote to allow women to become members.

Despite 60% agreeing that women should join, the vote was not passed as it was deemed so important, that it needed at least a two-thirds majority to go into effect.

The vote was in may.

After intense coverage as well as losing major contracts and tournaments, the club has decided to have yet another vote before the year is out.

And all this over whether or not women can become members.

Why does a private golf club have better terms and conditions on the way it's voting is handled, not to mention already setting up another vote compared to a nationwide decision to leave a union that will impacts millions for generations to come?
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That shitfest of a golf course is only doing that because it got publicly torched alive and has probably lost 80% of its revenue.
 
D

Davilmar

Member
s_mirage said:
I won't play down the importance of NATO, but an issue that I see with it is that by far its largest member is the United States. The reason I see this as an issue is that since WWII there's been an attitude, from a significant number of European countries, that America will roll in to save the day if the shit ever hits the fan. IMO this shouldn't be the case; Europe as an entity should have the ability to defend itself, or pursue military action, without requiring US involvement. Europe should rely upon, or take for granted, America's military support.

I'll be honest though, I'm not sure that an EU army would be terribly effective due to political infighting between nations, but I don't see it as something that must be avoided at all costs for nebulous reasons, like some leave supporters seem to.
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That is an interesting perspective from a European. Reminds me of the conflict with France and Charles de Gaulle during the 1960s, where France pulled from the NATO Command. As an American, there is a frustration that Europe always criticizes the United States, but never invests in their military and depend on the sacrifice of the U.S. military. If I remember correctly, don't only four or five countries actually spend the 2% GDP recommended for the military? I read an article that the Defense Minister in Germany was criticized for having a bare bones military, unable to pay for parts for their tanks and aircraft. Fact of the matter is, Europe needs to invest more in their military all around.

Having a united EU Army would be difficult, for many of the reasons you mentioned. I also can't help put still feel it would be unnecessary. I don't see any existential threats outside Russia that would require a separate military unit from NATO. Also, there would likely be a duplication of military planning, coordination between nation states, along with repetition of military units from each nation being in both NATO and the EU Armed Forces. If Europe had faced some unique security scenario that would require some independence from the weight of the United States, I'd love to hear it. As an American, it would be hard to take Europeans seriously when they say they actually want a united military. It comes from the long-standing stereotype of Europeans, and sorry if my bias is showing. You have to invest and maintain that military apparatus, something that the US does very well. For all the benefits and for all its many shortcomings and failings.
 
Alebrije

Alebrije

Member
images
 
I

IpKaiFung

Member
mid83 said:
The Daily Mail is an unreliable tabloid right? I ask as I've had a link sent to me a few times this evening from friends who I've argued against the Brexit with. The article essentially says that France/Germany have plans for a Euro Superstate that eventually will remove the ability for member nations to levy taxes or have a standing army.

I don't believe it as it seems like the Daily Mail is a tabloid, and I haven't seen this mentioned on any reputable site (BBC etc...) but I wanted to ask here.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't wipe my arse with the daily mail or most of the UK papers for that matter. Only one that is somewhat neutral I find is the financial times.
 
B

BKK

Member
Bony Manifesto said:
My constituency, which has always been a safe Labour seat, voted over 70% to leave. UKIP have long since ceased to be a protest party for particularly right-wing Conservatives; they're now coming for disenchanted working class voters, and with Labour in its current ineffectual state, there's nobody to stop them.
Click to expand...

Yes, I don't think that everybody understands this yet. After the referendum vote they were asked so you've done your job, time to end UKIP. That is nowhere near the case, UKIP haven't taken the Tories vote, most (but not all) will go back. UKIP now represent the working classes in Labour's former heartlands. These people are highly political, do you think that they'll just quit now that their main mission is acclompished? Of course not, UKIP (in the North) now feel that they're representing the working class that Labour abandoned, the type of voter that Jon Mahnn warned Corbyn about.
 
B

Biggzy

Member
Zaph said:
I would adjust your expectations.

The first thing Captain Boris did after "winning" was write an article which basically championed the statue quo.

And after everything is said and done, we will be begging for the old status quo.
Click to expand...

That article was so funny as if you did not know any better, you would think he was from the remain camp.

Boris is not stupid, he knows what the end game. He just needs to figure out away to fool the public.
 
S

Soph

Member
mid83 said:
The Daily Mail is an unreliable tabloid right? I ask as I've had a link sent to me a few times this evening from friends who I've argued against the Brexit with. The article essentially says that France/Germany have plans for a Euro Superstate that eventually will remove the ability for member nations to levy taxes or have a standing army.

I don't believe it as it seems like the Daily Mail is a tabloid, and I haven't seen this mentioned on any reputable site (BBC etc...) but I wanted to ask here.
Click to expand...

I tried to explain this before but some French agents stormed into my home and took my PC. Told me the truth shan't come out. I'm sending this from my phone scared to death, we've been trying to get a referendum for a long time here in Holland, the likes of Germany and France are totally subduing us though
 
A

AntChum

Member
Zaph said:
Given the current state of our electorate, you could probably run on that policy and pick up a few seats.
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Considering my constituency was 60-70% in favour of Leave, I feel compelled to throw my cardboard sword into the ring just to prevent a potential UKIP candidate in the event of a General Election in the near future.
 
A

axisofweevils

Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
mid83 said:
The Daily Mail is an unreliable tabloid right? I ask as I've had a link sent to me a few times this evening from friends who I've argued against the Brexit with. The article essentially says that France/Germany have plans for a Euro Superstate that eventually will remove the ability for member nations to levy taxes or have a standing army.

I don't believe it as it seems like the Daily Mail is a tabloid, and I haven't seen this mentioned on any reputable site (BBC etc...) but I wanted to ask here.
Click to expand...


Yep, it's unreliable but is also the most popular newspaper...
 
A

Air Zombie Meat

Member
The gutter press like the daily mail played a huge part in this. You can't go more than a page or two without seeing a sensationalised horror story about immigrants. It really is surreal to read, just straight up propaganda.
 
B

BKK

Member
Zaph said:
I would adjust your expectations.

The first thing Captain Boris did after "winning" was write an article which basically championed the statue quo.

And after everything is said and done, we will be begging for the old status quo.
Click to expand...

Ha! I don't need to adjust my expectations .... I'm as cautious as you. But no, I won't beg for the status quo, I'm confident in my choice, and I'll stand by it.My target is how the UK compares to the EU in ten years time ... if I was wrong, I'll acknowledge that. But really .... I expect both economies to be within the margin of error.
 
K

Kazaam

Member
Audioboxer said:
Basically lies everywhere.

It's the horrible truth that hits home for some that leads them to saying what is the point in voting? A harrowing thought as your vote is something you should cherish and always exercise... It's just easy to empathise with someone at a cross roads where they feel every path leads to another broken promise, take back or just nowhere at all.

Good people exist in politics it's just a shame many of the unsavoury characters manage to slime their way to the top of the ladder and poison a whole chalice for us to then have to consider drinking from.
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Couldn't put it better myself. Vote is not for granted... the moment people feel their vote doesn't count, we need to ask question and/or take measures. At the same time, utopically, we should give a heads on to the political party (that coming from a person who's post an hour ago said I lost all trust in political establishment)... So that being said a government and parliament should be able to (with drastic measures) veto people and act like good parents to a kid (but they better have a good fucking explanation for it... and i don't mean flowery shit, i mean black on white). Good parents make themselves the bad guys if it benefits you... unfortunately we don't see that often in contemporary politics... what happens in contemporary politics and what happened with Brexit is simply in-fucking-conceivable... If we use the same comparison is like parents gambling a child thinking no way someone will take this child", but if they do we'll pretend there's no choice and it's all YOUR fault"
 
M

mid83

Member
Soph said:
I tried to explain this before but some French agents stormed into my home and took my PC. Told me the truth shan't come out. I'm sending this from my phone scared to death, we've been trying to get a referendum for a long time here in Holland, the likes of Germany and France are totally subduing us though
Click to expand...

I assume you are trolling
 
P

Palculator

Unconfirmed Member
mid83 said:
Traditionally golf was a men's (rich men really) only game. I know a few years back we had similar issues at Augusta National, where the Master's is played. I think women are allowed now.
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I haven't played Golf that often (not a doctor) but the handful of times I did there were pretty much always women there. I know professional leagues are separated into men and women, just didn't expect a club to straight-up disallow them.
 
P

Pyrokai

Member
I've having another drink for you, Britain.

I've had drinks for you every night since the 23rd.

Goodness.....why am I so emotionally distraught over this? The more I ruminate, the more depressed I get? I have like....shit....doomsday going on in my head.

40 years of treaties and hard to work....flushed away in a one-day simple majority vote. I can't even.....
 
CharmingCharlie

CharmingCharlie

Member
axisofweevils said:
Welp. We've crashed Italy's bank... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...0bn-bank-rescue-as-first-brexit-domino-falls/
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Yup if we have any hope of staying in Europe we are going to have to pay an awful lot for the "privilege". I can easily see us not only losing the rebate but paying billions more to cover this. Not to mention our vetos will be going and we will probably have to commit to the Euro.

I honestly do not see anyway out of activating Article 50 now.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
B

BKK

Member
Zaph said:
I would adjust your expectations.

The first thing Captain Boris did after "winning" was write an article which basically championed the statue quo.

And after everything is said and done, we will be begging for the old status quo.
Click to expand...

Hold on, why is this all about my expectations?

We know that Boris is pro immigration, he was basically against most leaver's views. I never actually got why Boris was so hated amongst left wingers. The only tory who could ever win London, not once, but twice! Yet, it seems that some on the left prefer Cameron to him. It's something that I don't understand. If you thought that Cameron was liberal, wait until you get Boris!
 
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