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Torment: Tides of Numenera Kickstarter by InXile [Complete; $4.3 million funded]

volturnus

Banned
Yeah 500k increments are boring, and because of the large increment it's always this bundle of stuff which I feel waters everything down. There's less focus and it just feels like a bunch of random stuff. I definitely preferred how Project Eternity eventually narrowed down their long term stretch goals. It gave each goal individual spotlight, and a chance for them to detail them more.
500k increments are boring, but shorter stretch goals don't seem to make any difference in the number of backers and(or) the amount pledged. Eternity passed its first minor stretch goal ($1.4 million) in its 2nd day, while the last ($3 million) was hit 4 days before ending.
dailychart.png


The average in this "stretch progress" period was $52k/day, but most of them were in the 32-50k range, without any notable surge for a specific goal.
Then came the bigger ones, "Big Big City 2" and "Enhance the whole game", which had a 500k increment for each.
These goals, on the other hand, did seem to have some effect. Project: Eternity's average/day was $120k, but the 5-day period before the last day had an average of $158k, right when the $3 million mark was reached and the bigger goals were announced.
The decline isnt really quicker. The % drop is larger but thats just cause the first day was so high. PE still had slightly less numbers on its second and 3rd days then this one, and much less on the first day.

Its still following the trend of every other KS before it. Every day after this one should be in the 50-90k range until the last 3 days or so.
50-65k seems more reasonable, unless they announce Avellone or a sofisticated engine as a stretch goal. It's not unlikely, though, since George Ziets was one of the last goals for Eternity.
 
2,200,000!

We're getting there!
But yeah, they really should split up the stretch goals.
Each bullet point in the next goal could have been a stretch goal in itself spread out at 125k intervals or something.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
So if this made 65k for the next 25 days, not taking into account the last two days, but taking into account Fargo's 100k match back, this is already at 3.96 million or something. This is guaranteed for 4 mil as long as something bad doesnt happen. More like 4.5 with the final two days and whatever else happens. Plus i think another guy is backing another 100k match back, and also paypal. 2d artstyle needs to be the 4.5 mil stretch.

No one reads my posts :(

I read it, but Fargo also commented on the 3 mil goal after Brother said that stuff.
 

FACE

Banned
So if this made 65k for the next 25 days, not taking into account the last two days, but taking into account Fargo's 100k match back, this is already at 3.96 million or something. This is guaranteed for 4 mil as long as something bad doesnt happen. More like 4.5 with the final two days and whatever else happens. Plus i think another guy is backing another 100k match back, and also paypal. 2d artstyle needs to be the 4.5 mil stretch.

I read it, but Fargo also commented on the 3 mil goal after Brother said that stuff.

Well, shit.

Edit: It's time to update the thread title, by the way.
 
I went to Kicktraq and reached the conclusion that Fargo should call Chris Roberts for advice :p

dailypledges.png


That doesn't even count the RSI website, I think they've made over a million on the last day there.

Custom star ships stretch goals..more star systems to explore..those were most of the stretch goals
 
These basic boxed copies are too much though...

If they ever got a retail publisher (which is very plausible past the initial release if they sell alright) those versions would be cheaper than the funder versions are which have at best been in parity with the average full priced title, it doesn't make sense.


You are missing the point
 

Fou-Lu

Member
So tempting to play Planescape Torment in preparation for this and Project Eternity, but I have so little time these days.
 

GlassBox

Banned
So they put out the 3 Million stretch goal:
rA0wuf0.jpg

More Legacies, Deeper and Richer Reactivity

We’ve told you a little about the Tides and Legacies already – they are a key component of three of our four pillars, and at $3M we’ll be expanding their impact, especially with respect to our fourth pillar: “Reactivity, Choice, and Real Consequences.”

...

Six Legacies yields a lot of potential for reactivity and choices and consequences. But at this Stretch Goal, we take the system much further. Instead of depending only upon one Tide, your Legacy will be based upon your strongest TWO. This increases the number of Legacies to 11 (ten possible pairs, plus an eleventh for when no two reign supreme). By almost doubling the number of Legacies, we unlock many more options for gameplay and opportunities for the world and its people to respond to your choices.

...

Cults

We love you all, but it is our responsibility to torment you; that’s why you’re here in the first place. When we reach this Stretch Goal, we will add Cults to bring a little nastiness to your life. Like factions (which we had planned at our initial funding level and will discuss more later), these groups have their own interests, loyalties, and goals. Unlike factions, cults are antagonistic, roving enemies who pick up and move as they will, as the winds blow them, or as rumors of powers, enemies, or wealth summon them.

...

We’ll begin with the following two Cults:

The Children of the Endless Gate: Death worshippers, some call them. They prefer to think of themselves as spirits trapped in flesh, and the horror of their cage pushes them to atrocity. They call themselves liberators and agents of freedom, and when they hunt the slums of the cities they leave no evidence of their passing but a tracery in blood, an ever-wet gate to a realm of pure spirit... and horror.

The Order of Flagellants and Austerities: Once a hermetic and monkish offshoot of the Order of Truth, the so-called Scourges became a mendicant order and set out into the world with the appointment of a new leader a century ago. They are a missionary sect, devoted to cleansing the world of its many sins... among which are a reliance on the numenera, of using powers not rightfully granted with birth, and of pollution of the flesh with extravagances and constructs. A single Scourge alone is no threat, for they act only in communion with their brethren. But a group of them? They feed on the rage of their kin, borrowing strength of will and thew, and run berserk if they are not stopped, laying bare the bones of those who oppose them.

...

Companion #7

We’ll add another surprise companion, bringing the total to 7. You want blood? You’ve got it.
Sounds pretty good.
 

Zukuu

Banned
not a fan of this 1 highest => 2 highest. not at all. makes aligning to a certain legacy a pain, since you need to keep 2 high instead of one. would rather see 10 solo (+neutral) legacies or adding more extra content / changes when aligning with one of the 5 (+neutral) alignments.

I submitted another stretch goal idea on their site [more/more unique spells/skills], and voted for a view I want to see in the game (VA for companions, 2D backgrounds)
 

DatDude

Banned
I've never played Planescape Torment....kill me, I know...

I've been doing research on the game, and damn..is it just me was it really ahead of it's time? I mean art wise it looks so unique and inspired, and just one of kind..and the narrative..just seems so deep and philosophical, and just something that makes you really think in ways akin to some deep films or novels do.

Really gives you a sense of how far modern gaming has regressed :(
 

jb1234

Member
I've never played Planescape Torment....kill me, I know...

I've been doing research on the game, and damn..is it just me was it really ahead of it's time? I mean art wise it looks so unique and inspired, and just one of kind..and the narrative..just seems so deep and philosophical, and just something that makes you really think in ways akin to some deep films or novels do.

Really gives you a sense of how far modern gaming has regressed :(

Play it. Play it right now.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
I've never played Planescape Torment....kill me, I know...

I've been doing research on the game, and damn..is it just me was it really ahead of it's time? I mean art wise it looks so unique and inspired, and just one of kind..and the narrative..just seems so deep and philosophical, and just something that makes you really think in ways akin to some deep films or novels do.

Really gives you a sense of how far modern gaming has regressed :(
I dunno if it was ahead of its time, I mean, it was the golden era of RPGs and stuff like Torment was almost normal.

I think it's probably one of the best stories ever told in videogame history.
 

DiscoJer

Member
I've never played Planescape Torment....kill me, I know...

I've been doing research on the game, and damn..is it just me was it really ahead of it's time? I mean art wise it looks so unique and inspired, and just one of kind..and the narrative..just seems so deep and philosophical, and just something that makes you really think in ways akin to some deep films or novels do.

Really gives you a sense of how far modern gaming has regressed :(

Not just video games, either. A lot of Torment was inspired by the Planescape setting for AD&D. Back then, instead of simply putting out a new version of AD&D every 4-5 years (like they do now), they would put out new and different settings, each with a different style.

Planescape was probably the most experimental one, yet based on AD&D's concept of alignment - people having different philosophies that govern their lives, and their being different planes of existence based on those philosophies, with a central point, where Planescape was set.

But they could easily have simply tried to make a dungeon crawl or BG style game set in Sigil. But instead they tried something rather different. At the time it apparently didn't pay off in sales, but it did earn them critical acclaim and a cult following.
 

volturnus

Banned
dailypledges.png

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With yesterday's numbers in, it's shaping into a regular KS trend.
Eternity's 3rd day pledges were 40,6% of the 2nd, whereas Torment's were 39,6%.
We're looking at something around 170k today and a future average probably just above Eternity's numbers.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
You are missing the point
I don't think so. It's how I feel about it, there's no other point. I could have pledged for this and Shadowrun Returns $50 + shipping if they had a tier as attractive as Wasteland 2's. They didn't so I just sent them $20 and $15 respectively. That's all. Perhaps (though doubtfully) they will earn roughly the same for that $20 and $15 as Wasteland 2 will earn from that $50 + shipping thanks to the associated costs but at the same time perhaps more people would be pledging for such a tier.
 

dude

dude
not a fan of this 1 highest => 2 highest. not at all. makes aligning to a certain legacy a pain, since you need to keep 2 high instead of one. would rather see 10 solo (+neutral) legacies or adding more extra content / changes when aligning with one of the 5 (+neutral) alignments.

Playing the game trying to keep a Tide highest really doesn't seem like the point. I guess their ideal situation would be if they could get the funds is to have the game give you a different legacy for however your tides "rank" (an overall of 26 legacies if I'm not mistaken) - So you wouldn't have to think about the rankings at all.
 

Purkake4

Banned
Not really a fan of how mechanical the tides/legacies sound. Your alignment barely mattered at all in PST, it was all about the actual specific actions you did, not a culmination of morality points...
 

Kurtofan

Member
Not really a fan of how mechanical the tides/legacies sound. Your alignment barely mattered at all in PST, it was all about the actual specific actions you did, not a culmination of morality points...

I'm not seeing how it's a morality points system...

Dialogue in PST was influenced by how much Wisdom/Intelligence/Charisma etc... you had, but it doesn't mean they were just used for dialogue.

And you could join the various factions too.

Also it says the Legacies are influenced by the actions you do, not the contrary.

I think of it more like New Vegas faction system, when your actions could make you vilified or liked by different groups and they would react accordingly.
 

Purkake4

Banned
I'm not seeing how it's a morality points system...

Dialogue in PST was influenced by how much Wisdom/Intelligence/Charisma etc... you had, but it doesn't mean they were just used for dialogue.

And you could join the various factions too.
So the tides are stats? I completely missed that part.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I wouldn't mind a CRPG that restricts the way I can play it based on my character rather than keep opening up more optional possibilities. With the latter, it's easy to fall back to a routine of playing the good guy or min maxing with the choices based on the likely rewards. Restrictions based on my class, stats, dispositions, past choices, and so on, with a degree of freedom and exploration within, yet leaving me unable to completely flip flop from the best hero ever to the worst overlord, outside parts where it makes sense for such twists to be viable, would make it easier to replay the game and end up with a completely different experience each time, starting from the character creation phase. The decisions should rest on the leader when playing with a party, so that even with a varied party I can't fall back to that routine by picking another character.

For example, if my leader is meant to be good, when approaching this random NPC I need an item from I would only have options like asking for it, revealing the importance of my quest, or whatever other reasoning based on my charisma, offering to buy it if I have enough money, or helping the NPC with something, a quest, or another stat check for advice, in return for it.

With a leader grown into evil deeds yet otherwise the same statistics, I wouldn't have those options. I would have other options like stealing it or trying to intimidate the NPC into handing the item based on my strength or other statistic, while if he refused because the relevant stat was too low, the NPC wouldn't even speak to me any more, so I'd be forced to battle.

I would not be able to steal it or intimidate the random NPC if my character was supposed to be good even if I still had the required strength or stealth or whatever else is normally needed for such a task and I would not be able to get it just because I'm so nice with a known to be evil character even with charisma through the roof.

This would change based on the plot point, the disposition of the NPC, and so on (it'd be possible to steal from a known evil wizard for a hero character as that would only be a way to avoid combat rather than fool a poor soul, and perhaps with other statistics I could deceive that NPC into thinking my evil character is a good guy after all, but there shouldn't be too much overlap in these possibilities to once again avoid making too much possible to any character). There are flaws here, sure (now I'm thinking of it my party members' stats could fill in for my lacking stats, but not the options available, as a leader could order them to do whatever in their place), but it's just an example I came up with after writing the bulk of the post.

I can see how this might seem like I'm just saying the same thing in a slightly different manner to some. It's a fine line. This approach probably wouldn't sit well with Torment fans either so maybe it would be fit for a different game. I've personally been thinking about how restrictions could be better than more and more options for CRPGs for ages though.
 

duckroll

Member
Tides don't seem to be morality, but rather different attributes of personality. From the description, they are clearly stats, but probably invisible ones. When encountering various situations, the possible actions you can take will probably influence your affinity to a given tide. In that sense, it's an alignment system closer to "law/chaos" (but with more variations) rather than "good/evil".
 

dude

dude
Tides don't seem to be morality, but rather different attributes of personality. From the description, they are clearly stats, but probably invisible ones. When encountering various situations, the possible actions you can take will probably influence your affinity to a given tide. In that sense, it's an alignment system closer to "law/chaos" (but with more variations) rather than "good/evil".

Yeah. They've been pretty clear about this so I'm not sure why some of you are confused. This system sounds pretty interesting.
 

Purkake4

Banned
Tides don't seem to be morality, but rather different attributes of personality. From the description, they are clearly stats, but probably invisible ones. When encountering various situations, the possible actions you can take will probably influence your affinity to a given tide. In that sense, it's an alignment system closer to "law/chaos" (but with more variations) rather than "good/evil".
Yeah, that's what I meant, not morality just as good/evil.

The reason I don't like that kind of a system is that it will inevitably force you to choose whether to stick to your preferred legacy and keep your swank abilities/item powers or choose the action you actually want to do.
 

dude

dude
Yeah, that's what I meant, not morality just as good/evil.

The reason I don't like that kind of a system is that it will inevitably force you to choose whether to stick to your preferred legacy and keep your swank abilities/item powers or choose the action you actually want to do.

Well, I was worried about that too - In general, I'm not crazy about the idea of mixing stats and story. It means people will minmax the story which ןד the worst thing that can happen to a RPG. But, I didn't really think that these bonuses are something you earn, because there's a legacy to each tide. I figured they meant the game will make itself more fitting to your character? Like if you're a scholar, the game will shift itself to fit you more.
 

Purkake4

Banned
Well, I was worried about that too - In general, I'm not crazy about the idea of mixing stats and story. It means people will minmax the story which the worst ting that can happen to a RPG. But, I didn't really think that these bonuses are something you earn, because there's a legacy to each tide I figured they meant the game will make itself more fitting to your character? Like if you're a scholar, the game will shift itself to fit you more.
Hmh, that might work. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, they said they were going to be explaining the mechanics further.
 

Mashing

Member
I don't think they'd be invisible stats as you'd need to know what your legacy is at all time so you can gear yourself appropriately.
 
Tides don't seem to be morality, but rather different attributes of personality. From the description, they are clearly stats, but probably invisible ones. When encountering various situations, the possible actions you can take will probably influence your affinity to a given tide. In that sense, it's an alignment system closer to "law/chaos" (but with more variations) rather than "good/evil".

I love the pentagonal personality system they got:

e35f0fe8a73da61f3e652b553a4ac96d_large.jpg


There are unseen forces in the Ninth World, forces that have profound and lasting effects for those attuned to their motions. Like gravity or magnetism, the Tides are invisible, powerful, and with the right tools, perhaps controllable.

The Tides represent complicated concepts that aren't entirely definable by language. Those who acknowledge the Tides have given them symbolic colors based on how they appear to correspond with emotional and psychological reactions.

The colors are important, because a word like "justice" (for example) is too simplistic. The Indigo Tide represents not only justice and fairness; it might also mean a desire for the greater good or an "end justifies the means" mentality. The Gold Tide can represent false philanthropy as well as martyrdom—it's the actions that matter, not the motivations. In the game, the Tides serve as a kind of alignment system—but a more nuanced one, and one that does not judge actions based on whether they are good or evil. You'll learn more about the Tides as you explore Torment. And the Tides will gradually change based on your actions and decisions, ultimately determining your Legacy.

Which ties into the "Legacy"-system:

There's your legacy, the stories others tell about you and the inspirations they find in your life, and your Legacy, which we're systematizing here. Your Legacy is determined by which Tides you manipulate the most. Do you use your wisdom to help others? Do you seek power for the greater good? Maybe you're an avenger, taking whatever action is necessary to aid those around you. Perhaps you're just in it for the prestige. (Or money. People are always in it for the money.) As your choices move the Tides, your Legacy will be revealed.

Your Legacy also influences the world around you. Weapons and relics may have different bonuses for characters with certain Legacies. Some of them might respond positively if you've revealed yourself to be a thinker or an artist, while others might help you only if you're moved by passion and power.

Your Legacy opens new potential abilities. Some Legacies can change the very structure of your body, giving you superhuman powers: the ability to read the past in the minds of the dead, for instance, or a nearly supernatural affinity with weapons.
 

Zukuu

Banned
I love when you have many possibilities and the game judges my actions. I never "follow a set path" on my first playthroughs. I always do "what I would do" - and funny enough, that is mostly true to a certain alignment. I stray left and right sometimes, but the core is always around that: Chaotic Neutral with a hang towards good. I loved when the Witcher series had a "true neutral" path. Hearing that they have that as well in Torment makes me excited.
 

Midou

Member
I love when you have many possibilities and the game judges my actions. I never "follow a set path" on my first playthroughs. I always do "what I would do" - and funny enough, that is mostly true to a certain alignment. I stray left and right sometimes, but the core is always around that: Chaotic Neutral with a hang towards good. I loved when the Witcher series had a "true neutral" path. Hearing that they have that as well in Torment makes me excited.

Yeah, I usually save pure evil or pure good runs for later in games, I mean usually there is some epic gear that only works with one alignment or the other, but you don't really need it. Rolling with it and picking what you personally want instead of caring about alignment or consequences is always the funnest run.
 
It actually sounds like a pretty cool system. My only reservation is that I hate when there is too much stuff that I can miss. Conversations with the dead? Fuck yeah! But I hate to be giving up something equally as awesome because I don't have a ton of time to play through games multiple times.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
It actually sounds like a pretty cool system. My only reservation is that I hate when there is too much stuff that I can miss. Conversations with the dead? Fuck yeah! But I hate to be giving up something equally as awesome because I don't have a ton of time to play through games multiple times.
But if you could do everything in one playthrough it would take longer to do one so you'd not have time to complete it once. Just skip playing a lesser game.
 

FACE

Banned
It actually sounds like a pretty cool system. My only reservation is that I hate when there is too much stuff that I can miss. Conversations with the dead? Fuck yeah! But I hate to be giving up something equally as awesome because I don't have a ton of time to play through games multiple times.

I love that.
 
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