Clockwork5
Member
Wouldn't it?
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US expels Russian diplomats over cyber attacks
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
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TestOfTide
Banned
I'm not assuming Trump will be rational. I'm assuming that the GOP is afraid of backlash from the non-deplorables. Remember that most Trump voters were mostly voting against Hillary than for Trump.
And I bring up McCain and Graham because they are two examples of GOP politicians who don't have to answer to the deplorables. This is probably McCain's last term and Graham managed to actually beat the Tea Party wave without caving to them.
I mean sure some of the GOP politicians are as spineless as Ted Cruz, but not all of them.
The vast majority of Syrians killed are killed by Assad's and Putin's forces.
And I don't want to veer too off topic here, but if we didn't intervene in Libya then it would have ended up as bad as Syria is doing right now. Sure, Libya still has room for improvement, but that's not due to the US getting involved so much as its due to the US not investing in helping Libya rebuild.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
I don't really give a shit what Chomsky or Vidal have said, that's an irrelevent distraction at best, and an appeal to authority at worst, neither add to a debate in any meaningful way.
Again you attempt to exaggerate my position, I neither called you a commie, nor stepped into conspiracy territory, I just pointed out that you have a strong pro-Russian bias as a filter, have expressed that bias strongly in the past many multples of times, whether that is because they are seen by you as the best foil to an American Empire you dislike or whether it's because you like the images of leaders riding bears sweating pure testorerone I neither know, nor care.
All I posted was something to let others see the depth of your own bias.
We aren't just talking 'deplorables' here. There was a republican poll about Putin's favorability. And how much would you bet on that? Re: Bold. I mean, i want to buy this too. But I think its less of the inability to find ones spine, but more so keeping their base energized so they can ruin everyones lives + keep the party unified. We saw so many fall in line after he won, and shortly before.
If McCain and Graham are the worlds Obi-Wan Kenobi, we're shafted I'm afraid. We didn't see waves upon waves of dissent. Some say its a team sport at this point, and I'm afraid it is, or a religon.
I hope you're right, but its a hope based on no evidence whatsoever of there being a significant push from rational GOP members against trump.
I'd have to disagree with you there. We had no business in Libya.. They were doing pretty well, considering**, before the invasion and the public execution of the president there. That was some barbaric shit that we setup. Completely disgusting, Saddam at least had a trial. Gaddafi was sodimized and beaten to death. Countries are allowed to have strife without the USA getting involved, like how we give 0% shits about the genocide happening in Yemen right now**. Funding terror to fight terror is profitable, but it isn't condusive to peace and civility. Im tired of the middle east, and I'd imagine a lot of Americans are, and that just may be fueling the attitude that its not worth conflict with Russia over. Our reasons behind intervention aren't solid and they haven't been for quite some time. The American people desperately need health, jobs, infastructure, education.
TestOfTide
Banned
That poll still showed Putin with a net negative. Yes, the deplorables like Putin now, but the majority of the GOP still disapprove of Putin, especially the ones who are thinking "Mitt Romney was right about Putin".
And my hope is based on the fact that Trump had the smallest percentage of voters who say they were mostly voting for him rather than just voting against Hillary. It's not even like Trump won a majority of GOP primary votes. He only got a plurality.
We're gunna have to wait for the results of this one.. but. heres hoping you're right man! That would be the last straw of 'what-the-fucketry" for me. Is if he does it and the GOP falls in line. I think I'll just give up on politics as it no longer really matters or makes sense.
Barajas_201
Member
So you guys really are going with this Russian troll narrative huh? No I don't support Hezbollah, no I don't support Al Qaeda, Taliban, Neo nazis, FARC, ISIS, Stalin, Hitler and other bad guys. I also do not support Hillary Clinton, in fact I'm glad she lost and I knew beforehand that saying so in off-topic GAF, where the hive mind is all about YAS QUEEN, would bring me personal attacks but I'm still am going to express my opinion.
I had a good laugh with the whole Gundam thing and usual dog pile and personal attacks with the new Russian troll spin to it. Good night everyone, Love and Respect.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
So you guys really are going with this Russian troll narrative huh? No I don't support Hezbollah, no I don't support Al Qaeda, Taliban, Neo nazis, FARC, ISIS, Stalin, Hitler and other bad guys. I also do not support Hillary Clinton, in fact I'm glad she lost and I knew beforehand that saying so in off-topic GAF, where the hive mind is all about YAS QUEEN, would bring me personal attacks but I'm still am going to express my opinion.
I had a good laugh with the whole Gundam thing and usual dog pile and personal attacks with the new Russian troll spin to it. Good night everyone, Love and Respect.
............................................
But you were cheering Hezbollah's victory in Syria over the "terrorists."
Ninja Scooter
Member
Is Obama kneeling?
Trump being soft with Russia won't be the thing that takes him down but it will be a combination of things including his soft stance on Russia if he actually ends up being soft with russia that takes him down.
Psychoward
Banned
what we would do without our great russian allies who up until yesterday we've fully supported and they've been behind us 100%
I think it's just stupidity to be honest. Trump will defuse the situation pretty easily and come out of it looking good.
Classic face by Putin there.
how?
How so?
Disdain for Russia is the one thing Democrats and sane Republicans actually agree on. That Paul Ryan released a statement that only criticizes Obama for not doing this sooner is a big deal.
And those Republicans lost control of the monster they created. They have been largely ineffective at controlling Trump or the punditry. They haven't done shit against Trump except some random comments and no-backbone McCain has been letting Trump literally take a shit all over him and Veterans with only one sound bite of dissent and little else. Trump is in control of the voting block that will get the GOP seats in elections right now.
Are people really looking at the GOP as some type of saviors against Trump? Are we just going completely masochistic now?
No.
Its just incredibly obvious that they won't go down with a Trump ship. Now its sailing fine. But as it takes on more and more water, they will abandon ship.
I suspect in time they may even get tired of pumping out the water.
Especially when Trump starts turning on them, only a matter of time until we get some kind of "Paul Ryan is a cocksucker!" tweet.
Well, I keep hearing stuff like this but the ship keeps steaming full speed ahead so let me know when it actually happens. And by the way, Trump has already called the GOP and Paul Ryan names during the election and painted them as bad guys. They still came around to bow to Emperor Trump including Reince.
The republicans were united because their hatred of Hilary and democrats in general. With the democrats and hilary out of the picture it's likely divisions within the republican party will start to show in the next few years or so.
The Silver
Member
and then it's election time and everyone will get in line again
How can you be sure? It isn't 3am on the east coast yet. We should wait for his tweet storm before making any assertions to how he will respond and how other leaders will react to it.
LFMartins86
Member
WikiLeaks had so many posts and retweets regarding this that it only makes it more obviously how they've become Putin's bitch.
Yup. Though we aren't even going to have to wait for election time for them to fall in line. Republicans want some shit done in the meantime and they are still going to have to deal with Emperor Trump and kiss his ass to do it, because Emperor Trump demands obedience and ass kissing. Until Trump completely loses his hold over the punditry and the current conservative voting base any kind of coup the Republicans would try have no teeth. People are desperate for hope right now, I get that, but placing that hope on the GOP is just, well again, masochistic.
TestOfTide
Banned
You don't understand that the GOP had groomed their voters to hate Hillary for DECADES, with the most intense grooming being the last four years.
Like, in an alternate universe where Biden runs in 2016 and wins the nomination, you would have probably seen a shitload of GOP defectors straight up endorsing Biden instead of only going as far as to disavow Trump.
Polls have shown that most Trump voters were only/mostly voting for Trump just as a vote against Hillary. This isn't even your usual anti-democrat fervor. These voters were groomed into thinking Hillary was the devil herself.
And while it has worked in getting a lot of people to hate Hillary, it was a lot less successful when they tried using that tactic against Obama, because they didn't have four years to go "okay Barack Obama will be the 2008 nominee, its focus all our right wing media attention on attacking him". I mean look at Obama's current approval numbers.
Now the GOP got their wish. Hillary is out of politics now. But this is one of those "careful what you wish for" scenarios, because now the GOP has to scramble to figure out who to focus on vilifying and if they don't then the focus will ALL be on Trump fucking up and "Oh Look at this New Democratic Star with and he/she doesn't have all that baggage I heard Hillary has".
Except they didn't get in line when Obama was running.
You all are underestimating just how much the GOP put all their eggs into "Let's Hate Hillary" basket.
Diffuse the situation? Russia hacked political entities in the US to influence an election. If Trump tries to diffuse the situation in how you think he would or should then he will prove Democrats right. You can't just let Russia hack your shit and go unretaliated. What kind of world do you live in?
You and a lot of people seem to be ok with Russia hacking our shit and installing what is very like a puppet president. This is crazy.
Better how? He would be a shitty fucking President if he just let literally fucking spies that were attacking his country just stay and continue their fuckery.
Only pieces of shit puppets like Trump would allow such a thing.
I can probably answer that.
They live in a world where getting enough people to agree on something is the same as being true. Because they feel it. And you can't fake feelings!
No, I do understand that, and I also understand how they have groomed people to trust only Fox News, their pundits and hate everything they label as leftist, not falling in line with their beliefs and recently politicians themselves. Shit, we were calling that the GOP was tearing itself apart and was unrecoverable during the primaries and look what happened. If people want to keep up with these convoluted hypothesis then be my guest but i'm just saying you all are setting yourself up for further disappointment. I will be over here with another "I told you so" card that I guess i'm going to have to make more of till Poligaf learns to stop underestimating Trump and hoping for lightning to take him down.
TestOfTide
Banned
Yes the whole "only trust our own sources" is a problem, particularly among the deplorables, but contrary to what you may think, a VERY large chunk of Republicans, and even a significant chunk Trump voters, do still read legitimate news sources.
Yes the deplorables will buy into whatever bullshit breitbart tells them to believe so they don't have to admit to bad things about Trump, but it won't work on enough people to keep Trump safe in 2020.
If relying only on fake news was such a good strategy, then it would have worked against Obama. But it didn't. Obama now has the highest approval ratings he has had since 2009.
Palette Swap
Member
It's kind of amazing that when you're called on saying you agree that the media should have done the hacking themselves, you fall back to Bernie, Clinton, hivemind, corruption, sore losers and all these generally irrelevant things. But you never explain how a foreign country interfering with an election is a good thing, or why you would think media doing the hacking themselves would be somehow acceptable.So you guys really are going with this Russian troll narrative huh? No I don't support Hezbollah, no I don't support Al Qaeda, Taliban, Neo nazis, FARC, ISIS, Stalin, Hitler and other bad guys. I also do not support Hillary Clinton, in fact I'm glad she lost and I knew beforehand that saying so in off-topic GAF, where the hive mind is all about YAS QUEEN, would bring me personal attacks but I'm still am going to express my opinion.
I had a good laugh with the whole Gundam thing and usual dog pile and personal attacks with the new Russian troll spin to it. Good night everyone, Love and Respect.
Obama didn't burn that bridge. Putin is a monster and being treated as such. He invade Ukraine. He's been using Wikileaks as an attack dog under the guise of a charity. (gee, that sounds famliar) He's currently targeting Germany's elections.
Russia deserves every sanction they're going to get.
I seen elections were a political party was united against one political party or person taking office after that election because they thought the person or political party running for office was awful(hilary, Wildrose Party in Alberta). Once that united political party beat that person or political party cracks started to show in the governing party as time went on until some random political party out of nowhere beat the governing party in the next election because people did not want that political party to govern anymore and they found a better option. This is likely to happen to trump and the republicans to if they are not careful in the next election.
ShockingAlberto
Member
There's kind of no way to do it without tacitly admitting you supported them fucking with the election.
You can't just say "No, yeah, you guys that have been formally accused of spying, come back here and keep spying."
I mean, you can do that, you just have to wait 8-12 months and hope no one notices.
Obama: "I appear to have eight inches on you. Everywhere."
Putin: ..............................................................................
*launchoperationtinydicktrumpov*
Sorc3r3r
Member
I'm awaiting the Congress speech, Russia is challenging the actual Presidency to show proofs of these attacks, till now they just have shown a lot of words.
But in the end, this is another loss of the Obama presidency, it's a reactive sanction to a issue that shouldn't have been possible, not caused by a nation that doesn't produce anything, right?
I can't wrap my head on how bad these 8 years have been for the USA on its position and power in the world community, be assured that the steep decline began under Bush junior, but the democratic governance didn't anything to stop the trend, instead they managed to keep the trend going downward.
In a stubborn belief to still be able to dictate the whole world geopolitical agenda by themselves the USA leaders have lost even more ground and with them the foolish EU with its even more unskilled, unimaginative, limited, antihistoric leaders.
It's incredible how little Putin and his new and old allies had to put on the table to gain so much in these years, I'm not in the camp that thinks that Putin is that smart, but in the total ineptitude of the western leaders he comes up as a genius.
But in the end, this is another loss of the Obama presidency, it's a reactive sanction to a issue that shouldn't have been possible, not caused by a nation that doesn't produce anything, right?
I can't wrap my head on how bad these 8 years have been for the USA on its position and power in the world community, be assured that the steep decline began under Bush junior, but the democratic governance didn't anything to stop the trend, instead they managed to keep the trend going downward.
In a stubborn belief to still be able to dictate the whole world geopolitical agenda by themselves the USA leaders have lost even more ground and with them the foolish EU with its even more unskilled, unimaginative, limited, antihistoric leaders.
It's incredible how little Putin and his new and old allies had to put on the table to gain so much in these years, I'm not in the camp that thinks that Putin is that smart, but in the total ineptitude of the western leaders he comes up as a genius.
...What?
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I imagine it's quite useful. Disinformation is a powerful tool.
Nothing stuck to this guy during the election. It's quite possible he thinks nothing will stick to him when he takes the 'throne'.
Aaronology
Member
How bad has it been? Can you elaborate?
Your post is one big ramble.
I'm really glad your black or white opinion of fearmongering and supporting the fueling of another cold war is about to become irrelevant politically. The less the US (or anyone else for that matter) plays worldpolice (especcially in the middle east), the better.
Absolutely right, playing the threat that is in the minds of the voters at the time, not necessarily the threats that are more real. Read the full report, directly from the White House press statement, about how much fuckery, not even hacking-related or election-related, has been going on. That is declassified, mind you. There's other shit that goes on that can't even be talked around, since it gives away things that are too sensitive to even hint at.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2016/12/29/presidents-response-russias-actions-during-2016-election-what-you-need-know
Stop rejoicing about the problems this will cause for Trump, get the fuck over yourselves, this isn't about just him, this has already affected many people within the government and in U.S. companies negatively.
And that has what to do with Russia invading countries and interfering in Western elections exactly?
This ain't black/white featmongering or playing World Police, this is telling an enemy of the US and western/democratic values who is trying to actively destroy western democracy to go fuck themselves.
You think the Russia thing is just going to go away in 20 days?
Let's see how that works out.
No, I think that with Trump, Fillon and the UK dropping out of the EU next year there will be a relaxation of the tense relationship between Russia and the West which will also lead to the conflict in Syria being resolved much quicker. And without Russia attacking the baltics starting WW3, annexing more of Ukraine or other hyperbolic nonsense. We can look back to my post at the end of 2017 and see how it turned out.
These sanctions in particular, in regards to diplomats being followed and harassed in Russia (if it's true), are not wrong. But let's not pretend this is just that and not a general "Fuck you, I'm out" departure present by Obama.
In general the West is not the same as Russia, they can't do things on the foreign stage while ignoring the public backlash for long periods of time anymore. Russia do not have these restraints; it uses foreign issues to distract it's populace and is largely undemocratic.
Also, I do not know what you mean by "shouldn't be possible", as there was nothing really stopping it. Misinformation is pretty much always apparent in elections, but this time it was done by racists, trolls, and foreign government on a medium we all do not want to be monitored heavily (internet). Our media also caused this with their focus on Trump's actions rather than Hillary's policies, not just Russian government actions.
You are also incorrect on your thoughts that U.S can't dictate many geopolitical agendas. It can, but Democrats in general tend to be more reactionary on global politics, preferring to find other routes or lead task forces and other such organizations rather than just go in unilaterally. Issue with that approach, is many nations have different agendas and many do not have the desire or means to share the workload.
Putin isn't smart, his opponents are just more restrained for moral and political reasons than he is and that is a good thing, but as you can see it has major disadvantages.
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