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[lexi]

I'm bailing out, entertaining thread guys!

I will once again state that as a multi-console owner and a PC gamer, I simply find it disheartening Nintendo games are often ignored by the mainstream, they are well and truly missing out. Anyway, I'm going to get some UT2k4 in before I go to work, later.

 

[Do The Mario]

Yes, off course, you bought it because of Viewtiful and Rogue Squadron only...

BTW didn’t you say you wanted to buy tales of Tales of Symphonia in you’re RPG recommendation thread?

Guess what?

It’s third party!

I thought people only brought the GC for the “big N” games

 

[MakMan]

Because Nintendo has found a place in the marketplace where it can operate at a profit.

Nintendo is not #1. They aren't even trying to be #1 at this point. They are trying to make a profit selling videogames. They are succeeding.

This isn't about who's #1. Only in the videogame world do you have to be #1 to be "competitive".

But don't you see them remaining at this position? It's not like they've lost their share in comparison to the last generation. In contrast to Sega, Nintendo will always have a large amount of fans, who will even blindly buy anything they will bring out.

 

[crumbs]

the worst fanboys are the people like you who cant accept other games and consoles.

I own all three consoles and a GBA SP and use them all. How am I a fanboy? Because I don't tolerate delusional fanboys that give themselves a heart attack because someone at the Washington Post doesn't like the GC.

 

[MrparisSM]

This is a bigger joke than calling the Cube obsolete. This year alone, the PS2 has seen considerably more AAA titles hit its platform than the Xbox. While the Xbox has its share of high-profile titles, its library is simply not comparable to the PS2's.

You might want to do a little more research about that part. Xbox has had the most AAA titles this year.

 

[Unison]

I don't understand how the GameCube could be classified as "competitively obsolete" and the Xbox not. Even if the Xbox has pulled ahead of the Cube, there is no way on earth it could possibly take down the PS2 as the #1 console of the generation. It is not competing with the PS2 on a "serious level". :lol

 

[kaching]

It's an analogy.
What Rob did provoked the response he knew it would.

Its a piss poor analogy, Oli. If I throw a rock at your head, I'm going to cause PHYSICAL DAMAGE. If I tell you that I think luxury item X is not worth buying this information is of no harm to you. The former is far more likely to provoke a particular kind of response paired with far more significant consequences than the latter.

Okay, fine, heh, "strong dislike" ... better?

I didn't realize you people gave such a shit about semantics.

Hate is a very strong word. It's proper use should never be considered mere "semantics", esp. when you are asking a question that tries to probe to the heart of a problem. How can you expect to resolve the problem if you can't properly identify it?

I know it's trendy to use the word "hate" and play the victim. Thank you, Jerry Springer et al. for that. But it doesn't form the basis of an objective, compelling argument.

I'm not even sure "strong dislike" is the proper term here either. Just because there are people who think Nintendo is stumbling in their appeals to the gaming market doesn't mean they hate or dislike Nintendo.

 

[XS+]

You might want to do a little more research about that part. Xbox has had the most AAA titles this year.

No, it has not.

 

[MakMan]

BTW didn’t you say you wanted to buy tales of Tales of Symphonia in you’re RPG recommendation thread?

Guess what?

It’s third party!

I thought people only brought the GC for the “big N” games

Did I buy the GC for Tales only? No! Out of the twenty games I own at the moment, only one is from a third party. And now you forbid me of making a choice of buying a videogame for whichever platform I own?!

 

[Do The Mario]

But don't you see them remaining at this position? It's not like they've lost their share in comparison to the last generation. In contrast to Sega, Nintendo will always have a large amount of fans, who will even blindly buy anything they will bring out.

Yes they have lost market share from last generation the GC hasn’t even sold half of what the N64 managed.

 

[Donkeypuncher]

I own all three consoles and a GBA SP and use them all. How am I a fanboy? Because I don't tolerate delusional fanboys that give themselves a heart attack because someone at the Washington Post doesn't like the GC.

Hey, I own all of the above too and wholeheartedly agree with you 100%.

 

[Unison]

But don't you see them remaining at this position? It's not like they've lost their share in comparison to the last generation. In contrast to Sega, Nintendo will always have a large amount of fans, who will even blindly buy anything they will bring out.

Of course I see them remaining #3, but I don't see them losing money or significant marketshare either.

What is their market share compared to Microsoft right now? They must be within a few % points of one another.

They are still clearly Microsoft and Sony's competitor. They are still a factor in this generation, even if it's more from a software perspective (i.e. don't launch your new game against the new Zelda) than a hardware one.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Well from the start Nintendo has always maintained that they were not in the smae market as sony and Microsoft. So maybe they are only competitive against their own numbers. I understand that GCN ales are way down but they dont seem to see an issue with this, so it must not be a big deal.

They aren't way down, though. They're pretty flat from 2002 to 2003 to 2004 (at least in the US). November and December will surely be less than last year's big jump, though.

But don't you see them remaining at this position? It's not like they've lost their share in comparison to the last generation.

It's undeniable they've lost their marketshare from last generation. Xbox and GCN are basically splitting it.

 

[Sysgen]

This is a bigger joke than calling the Cube obsolete. This year alone, the PS2 has seen considerably more AAA titles hit its platform than the Xbox. While the Xbox has its share of high-profile titles, its library is simply not comparable to the PS2's.

Most people don't have time to play a years worth of PS2 or Xbox games so you cannot go counting by numbers. In context it does not matter that the PS2 has 500 billion titles to the Xbox 300 billion. This year the Xbox AAA exclusives are impressive titles plus they get alot of 3rd party support. People want what's cool. The Xbox has acheived market acceptance at the cost of the Gamecube. End of story.

 

[Unison]

Basically, saying that Nintendo is competitively obselete is like saying Gamestop is competitively obselete compared to Wal Mart because they sell fewer games. There is no way Gamestop is ever going to be #1 in that market. That in no way determines the health of the chain, however or its value as a store.

A kind of lame analogy, I know, but I just want to underline that the focus on who's #1 is asinine, especially when we're talking about things from a business perspective. If Nintendo had crappy marketshare and was losing money trying to gain more, I would call them "competitively obselete", but since they are growing their userbase and making money, I don't see how you can say that.

 

[MrparisSM]

No, it has not.

1. Halo 2
2. Burnout 3
3. Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow
4. Ninja Gaiden
5. Espn NFL 2k5
6. Madden 2005
7. Rallisport Challenge 2
8. Riddick
9. Dead Or Alive Ultimate
10. NCAA Football 2005
11. Fable

Curtesy of IGN.com

How many has PS2 had??

 

[ironichaos]

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/report/fiscal2004.pdf

Nintendo's net sales in 2003?

$4,899,130,000

Nintendo's basic management policy is as follows:

"In the field of home entertainment, Nintendo Co., Ltd. and its consolidated subsidiaries strive to create new and unique forms of entertainment while maintaining a robust business structure."

As a business, Nintendo has been exceptionally successful. It's a company to be admired. There is enough room for three console manufacturers in this industry. Nintendo doesn't need to be number one, and frankly I'm glad they don't have that goal. I think if they did, they would no longer be "Nintendo". I mean, there's a reason I'm a "Nintendo fan" rather than an "Electronic Arts fan"...

Basically, saying that Nintendo is competitively obselete is like saying Gamestop is competitively obselete compared to Wal Mart because they sell fewer games. There is no way Gamestop is ever going to be #1 in that market. That in no way determines the health of the chain, however or its value as a store.

A kind of lame analogy, I know, but I just want to underline that the focus on who's #1 is asinine, especially when we're talking about things from a business perspective. If Nintendo had crappy marketshare and was losing money trying to gain more, I would call them "competitively obselete", but since they are growing their userbase and making money, I don't see how you can say that.

Just wanted to say, very nice post. And I agree.

 

[Amir0x]

1. Halo 2
2. Burnout 3
3. Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow
4. Ninja Gaiden
5. Espn NFL 2k5
6. Madden 2005
7. Rallisport Challenge 2
8. Riddick
9. Dead Or Alive Ultimate
10. NCAA Football 2005
11. Fable

Curtesy of IGN.com

How many has PS2 had??

The fact that you have three football games on there is a telling tale, actually. You need a better list.

But, uh, Burnout 3 is multiconsole. Pandora Tommorrow is multiconsole. Madden 2005 is multiconsole. ESPN NFL 2k5 is multiconsole, right? NCAA Football 2005... is that multiconsole? I think so.

 

[Particle Physicist]

..

 

[btrboyev]

maybe the guy should've done some research. If the Gc is obsolete what do you call the Xbox when its almost certain Xenon will be out next fall??? At least nintendo plans on supporting their system until at least 2006.

 

[human5892]

MrParis: Dude. If you're going to play the list game (which I wouldn't advise doing anyway), at least make it a list of console exclusives.

 

[XS+]

Most people don't have time to play a years worth of PS2 or Xbox games so you cannot go counting by numbers. In context it does not matter that the PS2 has 500 billion titles to the Xbox 300 billion. This year the Xbox AAA exclusives are impressive titles plus they get alot of 3rd party support. People want what's cool. The Xbox has acheived market acceptance at the cost of the Gamecube. End of story.

The Xbox may very well have achieved market acceptance at the expense of the Gamecube, but it is laughable to suggest Microsoft's system is the PS2's equal. That's hyperbolic drivel and shoddy journalism. One need only look at the past two months -- yes, factoring in Halo 2 -- to see how the PS2 has outpaced the Xbox in both quantity and quality.

 

[MrparisSM]

The fact that you have three football games on there is a telling tale, actually. You need a better list.

But, uh, Burnout 3 is multiconsole. Pandora Tommorrow is multiconsole. Madden 2005 is multiconsole. ESPN NFL 2k5 is multiconsole, right? NCAA Football 2005... is that multiconsole? I think so.

WTF are you talking about? I never said the most exclusive titles, I said the MOST AAA titles THIS year. Pandora Tommorrow is only AAA on the Xbox console(since you feel the need to point that game out.) And no I'm not including the PC into this because it's not technically a "console". Also those 3rd party games you singled out usually are better on the Xbox. So please go troll elsewhere.

 

[Sysgen]

MrParis: Dude. If you're going to play the list game (which I wouldn't advise doing anyway), at least make it a list of console exclusives.

Why? Pandora for instance is far superior on the Xbox as is NFL 2K5.

 

[XS+]

1. Halo 2
2. Burnout 3
3. Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow
4. Ninja Gaiden
5. Espn NFL 2k5
6. Madden 2005
7. Rallisport Challenge 2
8. Riddick
9. Dead Or Alive Ultimate
10. NCAA Football 2005
11. Fable

Curtesy of IGN.com

How many has PS2 had??

Exclusives. E X C L U S I V E S. Compare the exclusives, then come back to me.

 

[Cathcart]

Worst. List. Ever.

 

[human5892]

Why? Pandora for instance is far superior on the Xbox as is NFL 2K5.

But they're still good games on the PS2.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

What is their market share compared to Microsoft right now? They must be within a few % points of one another.

More than you asked for. Percentages of PS2/XBX/GCN share, from NPD numbers. For better comparison to this year's numbers I'll put the through-October values in parentheses.

2000
PS2: 100% (100%)

2001
PS2: 69.9% (100%)
XBX: 16.1% (  0%)
GCN: 14.0% (  0%)

2002
PS2: 60.8% (60.6%)
XBX: 22.6% (22.5%)
GCN: 16.6% (16.9%)

2003
PS2: 49.7% (54.9%)
XBX: 24.5% (24.2%)
GCN: 25.5% (21.0%)

2004
PS2: ??.?% (45.7%)
XBX: ??.?% (36.4%)
GCN: ??.?% (17.9%)

Lifetime
PS2: 58.1%
XBX: 23.4%
GCN: 18.5%

 

[Amir0x]

Worst. List. Ever.

Indisputable truth.

 

[Zerodoppler]

maybe the guy should've done some research. If the Gc is obsolete what do you call the Xbox when its almost certain Xenon will be out next fall??? At least nintendo plans on supporting their system until at least 2006.

Makes this seem a bit more sad, no?

EB Games upcoming GCN releases: 27
EB Games upcoming Xbox releases: 76
EB Games upcoming PS2 releases: 93

 

[MrparisSM]

Exclusives. E X C L U S I V E S. Compare the exclusives, then come back to me.

1. Halo 2
2. Burnout 3
3. Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow
4. Ninja Gaiden
5. Espn NFL 2k5
6. Madden 2005
7. Rallisport Challenge 2
8. Riddick
9. Dead Or Alive Ultimate
10. NCAA Football 2005
11. Fable


OK, there are still SIX AAA exclusive titles on my list. Like I've stated before. How many does the PS2 have this year???

 

[Azih]

In contrast to Sega, Nintendo will always have a large amount of fans

I disagree with that. In their heyday Sega had nearly as many diehard fans as Nintendo did. It just kept on alienating them until the fanbase wasn't large enought to support a console. Nintendo isn't alienating their fanbase in the same dramatic fashion Sega did, but it is eroding like crazy. If it continues then eventually it won't be large enough to support the a succesfull console life cycle.

 

[funcojoe]

 

[fallout]

Why do people "hate" Nintendo fanboys? Probably because they sound just like PR, more so than other fanboys. They sound like they get talking points that they must hit on in every thread. The fact that they couldn't stop talking about Reggie, a marketing hack, illustrates this problem.

I don't think anyone likes Nintendo fanboys, heh.

Hate is a very strong word. It's proper use should never be considered mere "semantics", esp. when you are asking a question that tries to probe to the heart of a problem. How can you expect to resolve the problem if you can't properly identify it?

True, I do tend to use the word liberally, which is a problem. However, my query concerned people that go out of their way to insult Nintendo in every conceivable way, treating the situation like it's black and white.

If you have a well founded argument and are discussing the fact that the GameCube is not doing so well, so be it. There's nothing wrong with that. I do think though, that it's impossible to not accept the fact that there are actually some good things to be said about Nintendo.

I know it's trendy to use the word "hate" and play the victim. Thank you, Jerry Springer et al. for that. But it doesn't form the basis of an objective, compelling argument.

Erm ... what argument? I'm not challenging the accuracy of this article at all. I stated that in my original post. It was merely a question to a situation that I just don't understand.

I'm not even sure "strong dislike" is the proper term here either. Just because there are people who think Nintendo is stumbling in their appeals to the gaming market doesn't mean they hate or dislike Nintendo.

Heh, I think you and I visit different GAFs. Or maybe I read things differently.

It just seems that there's always a gross amount of negative comments towards Nintendo, whether they be the result of positive or negative news. Maybe it reflects how poorly Nintendo is actually doing in the industry, but when the only positive things said about Nintendo are coming from rabid fanboys who can't accept the fact that Nintendo has slipped pretty hard, I find it a little disconcerting.

Naturally, I have my preferences and so does everyone else. Also, I'm not retarded, I know where Nintendo stands in this industry. However, I love the games they make and in order to play those games, I have to buy their hardware. That being said, I snatched up an Xbox recently because it was cheap. I personally don't think that it has the greatest games this generation, but there are certainly a good number of them that rank up there and I enjoy them immensely. The same can be said for the PS2.

My question was put forth to those who deem everything that Nintendo does a failure, not to those who are so one sided.

 

[Do The Mario]

To be honest it baffles me when people make AAA Title Xbox lists, I own an xbox and I have one because it’s one whore of a console.

Every title gets a piece of the action! you get many of the best PS2 and PC games ported across and generally between the GC and Xbox the best release of multiplatform titles.

 

[Unison]

Lifetime
PS2: 58.1%
XBX: 23.4%
GCN: 18.5%

So, basically, calling the Cube "competitively obselete" and not doing the same to the Xbox is like saying GameStop, but not EB is"competitively obselete" when compared to Wal-Mart.

It's silly and unfounded.

Apples and oranges, I know, but clearly there is no competition here. PS2 Won.

 

[duderon]

1. Halo 2
2. Burnout 3
3. Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow
4. Ninja Gaiden
5. Espn NFL 2k5
6. Madden 2005
7. Rallisport Challenge 2
8. Riddick
9. Dead Or Alive Ultimate
10. NCAA Football 2005
11. Fable


OK, there are still SIX AAA exclusive titles on my list. Like I've stated before. How many does the PS2 have this year???

You'd want to define what AAA means, too. This is completely objective right now.

 

[Sysgen]

Worst. List. Ever.

Wasted post. I guess it should only be games that cater to your taste.

 

[human5892]

OK, there are still SIX AAA exclusive titles on my list. Like I've stated before. How many does the PS2 have this year???

Which brings us to the second problem with the list game: objectively assigning games a rating of quality. Somebody might laugh at Fable while triumphantly holding up MGS3, which you may bitterly contest.

Lists = never-ending, groundless battle.

 

[MrparisSM]

Which brings us to the second problem with the list game: objectively assigning games a rating of quality. Somebody might laugh at Fable while triumphantly holding up MGS3, which you may bitterly contest.

Lists = never-ending, groundless battle.

True, that's why I'm going by IGN.com's scores. Which is what I stated in my first post.

 

[Do The Mario]

Won’t Halo 2 come out on PC???

 

[XS+]

But they're still good games on the PS2.

No, because of the negligible graphical trappings multi-platform titles receive on the Xbox, they lose their fun when they hit the PS2. According to Sysgen.

 

[Sysgen]

Which brings us to the second problem with the list game: objectively assigning games a rating of quality. Somebody might laugh at Fable while triumphantly holding up MGS3, which you may bitterly contest.

Lists = never-ending, groundless battle.

I agree and lets understand what started this.

XS+ quote:
the Xbox is now the PS2's equal
This is a bigger joke than calling the Cube obsolete.

It's not a bigger joke and this fanboy missed the whole point of the thread.

 

[human5892]

True, that's why I'm going by IGN.com's scores. Which is what I stated in my first post.

Oops, my mistake! I had forgotten that IGN are the objective base to which all games should be definitively measured.

 

[Sysgen]

No, because of the negligible graphical trappings multi-platform titles receive on the Xbox, they lose their fun when they hit the PS2. According to Sysgen.

I never said that but some titles are worth more on the console that can best present them and therefore IMO can be inlcuded in a AAA list. Is Pandora a PS2 AAA title? No. Is it an Xbox AAA title. Yes.

 

[duderon]

Oops, my mistake! I had forgotten that IGN are the objective base to which all games should be definitively measured.

You can't go IGN-Xbox vs. IGN-PS2 :lol

 

[XS+]

I agree and lets understand what started this.

XS+ quote:
the Xbox is now the PS2's equal
This is a bigger joke than calling the Cube obsolete.

It's not a bigger joke and this fanboy missed the whole point of the thread.

Calling the Xbox the PS2'S substantive equal is a joke. But, hey, if it makes you sleep better at night....go right ahead. BTW, I'm anything but a fanboy. I'm a gameboy.

 

[MrparisSM]

You can't go IGN-Xbox vs. IGN-PS2 :lol

:lol

ok, ok. How bout Gamespot then? If I recall correctly I think there are like 8 AAA Xbox titles on Gamespot.com and only like 5 on the PS2 there this year. I have to head to work so I can't research it myself, but I'm pretty sure.

 

[ironichaos]

Besides, a "holiday gift" also means that the person likely never previously owned the console. Each console has hundreds of titles to choose from. Going with any of the three platforms is going to provides hours of entertainment and a wide variety of past and present games to choose from. That article is just silly.

 

[duderon]

:lol

ok, ok. How bout Gamespot then? If I recall correctly I think there are like 8 AAA Xbox titles on Gamespot.com and only like 5 on the PS2 there this year. I have to head to work so I can't research it myself, but I'm pretty sure.

What would a AAA game be?

> 9.0?