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Wasteland 2 Kickstarter project by inXile entertainment [Ended, $3 Million Funded]

duckroll

Member
The general back-of-the-envelope estimate for game development non-labor costs is around equal to the labor costs, and given that those guys are in SF I could easily believe the people on the team average out to $100k salaries. :p

Oh I definitely think their salaries average out to 100k. I just don't buy the rest of it. 2.2 million specifically just for 11 guys working for a year? Nope, don't buy it.
 
Oh I definitely think their salaries average out to 100k. I just don't buy the rest of it. 2.2 million specifically just for 11 guys working for a year? Nope, don't buy it.

Well, I'm sure a lot of people working on these KS projects are working for nothing, relative to their standard salary, anyway. Getting a piece of the backend once the game goes out for sale probably helps.
 

duckroll

Member
Well, I'm sure a lot of people working on these KS projects are working for nothing, relative to their standard salary, anyway. Getting a piece of the backend once the game goes out for sale probably helps.

What... are you talking about? These are not indie guys working on something cool. I'm talking about Double Fine and inXile. They're developers who are part of the industry and all their employees are salaried. They're not working for nothing, wtf?

I'm just pointing out that it is a bit dubious to take at face value that 2.2 million dollars given to Double Fine with no strings attached equals just 11 guys working for a year. That's all.
 
What... are you talking about? These are not indie guys working on something cool. I'm talking about Double Fine and inXile. They're developers who are part of the industry and all their employees are salaried. They're not working for nothing, wtf?

I'm just pointing out that it is a bit dubious to take at face value that 2.2 million dollars given to Double Fine with no strings attached equals just 11 guys working for a year. That's all.
Right, I agree. I guess I was trying to point out that the only reason these are happening with bigger names at the helm is that these guys are most likely taking reduced or no salary (because some of them, like BF, can afford to do that). These games aren't going to have a large staff and probably next-to-nothing when it comes to contracting outside work, so the biggest drains, by position, are going to be salary from the top guys going down. Shave off the top salaries for a guaranteed backend piece that more than compensates them over time. If this happens exactly as BF says, most of the top talent work is focused in the first six months with more consultancy and much less frequent presence or responsibility with inXile's small staff handling the duties in the last year or so.
 

duckroll

Member
Right, I agree. I guess I was trying to point out that the only reason these are happening with bigger names at the helm is that these guys are most likely taking reduced or no salary (because some of them, like BF, can afford to do that). These games aren't going to have a large staff and probably next-to-nothing when it comes to contracting outside work, so the biggest drains, by position, are going to be salary from the top guys going down. Shave off the top salaries for a guaranteed backend piece that more than compensates them over time. If this happens exactly as BF says, most of the top talent work is focused in the first six months with more consultancy and much less frequent presence or responsibility with inXile's small staff handling the duties in the last year or so.

I think you misunderstand the point of my original comment. I guess I didn't make myself clear enough in terms of what I was actually taking a swipe at. I'm not objecting to any part of the process or smaller teams working on a project. None of that is bad. I was just pointing out that the oversimplification of Double Fine's breakdown comment at the end gives off a general impression that isn't really great.

They say that with a final tally of 2.2 million for the budget, they'll be able to put 11 people on the project for one year rather than 3 people for 6 months with a budget of 300k. The reality is probably that they can do much more than that in terms of pure manpower allocation if they needed to for the project, but in their case they don't. It's a 2D graphical adventure game, so having a small team oversee the development process, while pumping much more money into things which would immediately improve the quality of the game's presentation (more VO, more characters, unique animations, etc) makes a lot of sense.

But let's assume Wasteland 2 gets the same amount of money as DFA. With a production budget of 2.2 million, I don't think anyone would want to see a big RPG developed by just 11 people in one year. They're definitely going to need more manpower than that, and they will probably get it because they won't be spending as much on other areas. Textures and environmental models will probably be more reusable throughout the game, and there will be very limited VO, if any at all, etc.

That's all I'm trying to say.
 
what is going on with this notion that the money is going to be divided 11 ways.

3.3 million to Double fine.

they will budget and allocate staff. probably about 50-80k/year depending on the role. etc.

they will pay them their salaries.

then there will be left over profits/contegencies...etc.


bizarre reading this chatter about the money and the people. so bizarre.
 
what is going on with this notion that the money is going to be divided 11 ways.

3.3 million to Double fine.

they will budget and allocate staff. probably about 50-80k/year depending on the role. etc.

they will pay them their salaries.

then there will be left over profits/contegencies...etc.


bizarre reading this chatter about the money and the people. so bizarre.

DF themselves put these numbers up on the backer forums.

I think Duckroll's point is that they provide just enough answers to raise more questions. That is, we could really do with a more detailed break down.

I kinda agree, but that being said, maybe they don't know 100% yet. More likely their experience tells them what kind of projects can be done for 2.2 million or however much it was, and they don't really have the details on how much will go to Graphics, VOs etc. So far DF have been very communicative and if they continue in that vein I really have no issues.

I would hope for a complete breakdown after the game is released to see where our money went. I think that's within reason, and I have the feeling that we'll get that.
 

ZoddGutts

Member
Haha yeah it would pretty crazy if all the programmers are making over 200k for one year of development. 3 million is enough to employ 50 programmers, each making 60k for one year. So either Double Fine is using the money to make the game for 5 years with his 11 man team or he plans on hiring 40 more programmers to make the game in one year.
 
Going by the time stamp on one of my last posts, $10,974 collectively has been raised between Paypal and KS in the last 1:48 minutes.

Currently at: $2,911,728 total for both KS and PP

Ok, since this update, in the last 45 minutes another $8,435 has been raised.

Now at $2,920,163 overall

... sorry about OCD'ing over this. I just find it interesting. :p

7hours left.
 

Shaheed79

dabbled in the jelly
Kickstarter is a nice little band-aid for the multiple gun shot wounds the non ios/facebook game industry is currently suffering from. Wasteland 2 proves that this could really help to bring back games and genres that are desperately needed. But if the industry continues to go full speed ahead in the wrong direction then not even kickstarter, or 100 sites just like it, will be able to save it.

Does anyone want to guess where the final number will end up at? At the rate it's going now I would say just over or under 3 Million.

So where is the Freespace 3 Kickstarter page?
 

DiscoJer

Member
Kickstarter is a nice little band-aid for the multiple gun shot wounds the non ios/facebook game industry is currently suffering from. Wasteland 2 proves that this could really help to bring back games and genres that are desperately needed. But if the industry continues to go full speed ahead in the wrong direction then not even kickstarter, or 100 sites just like it, will be able to save it.

Well, I think in the long run, it's going to be digital distribution that saves a lot of genres. RPGs in particular have a very long tail - look at how several years later games like the good Vampire one and Arcanum sell. But it's not the developer that benefits, it's the publisher.

This way, hopefully, the developer will be benefiting from the long term sales - they might use kickstarter in the future, but hopefully won't have to rely on it once they get a game or two released and selling.

I think that's really been one of Obsidian's problems - even though they make pretty good games, they've never been a publisher, only developer, so have never reaped the benefits as they basically just do contract work.
 
this is going to break 3 million. I hope

6 hours to go.



I'm thinking back to day 1 of this KS; the lot of us going "go go go". :)

anticipation.jpg
 

Shaheed79

dabbled in the jelly
I gave them 30 bucks, this better be worth it. I want Alpha Centuria 2 and Jagged Alliance 3 be the next games to get kickstarted ok!

I'm actually thinking that if there is a certain amount of money left over then they are going to put it directly back into their next fan project. They can take a vote from the website on which IP we want them to tackle next.

I can see how certain future projects from kickstarter could run the risk of making big publishers and developers very uncomfortable. If, in the future, a fan funded game is made and is of equal scale, polish and quality to games made by some of the big name developers, but at a mere fraction of the cost, then certain questions will surface.

I can see it now.

"How were 40 people on a budget of 6 Million able to make a game comparable to a game that took 100+ people on a budget of 30 Million to make?"

It would not even matter if they had a perfectly logical explanation for the discrepancy in budget and man power. The second those sort of comparisons are made it will invite a dangerous proposition for large publishers.
 
People are really simplifying the equation if they think that the $2.2 milion for DFA are only going to those 11 peoples salaries. Voice actors, translation, cutscenes, linux-version, etc. The 11 people number was only posted to give an understanding on how much the scope of the game has changed.

I think it´s really good that Wasteland 2 won´t have voice actors.
 

Perkel

Banned
Lol people speculate about money. They've told you what they will be doing with money They gonna use it for development. Speculating just how much for something by people who don't have any idea on game development is stupid.

They will be creating game for mac and linux also in 6 languages.

3Mln $ isn't that high if you consider multiplatform release. Also game must be shipped, QA and still have some dev suppport ater shipment to patch it.
 

disap.ed

Member
Lol people speculate about money. They've told you what they will be doing with money They gonna use it for development. Speculating just how much for something by people who don't have any idea on game development is stupid.

They will be creating game for mac and linux also in 6 languages.

3Mln $ isn't that high if you consider multiplatform release. Also game must be shipped, QA and still have some dev suppport ater shipment to patch it.

If I got it right 3Mln $ is needed for them making an editor.
 
Its now @

2946402.

54k to 3 million. Its going to break that really easily. Btw an F5, the dollar value on the quickstarter just jumped about btw 100-250.

Theres around 5 hour 51mins to go. 10k/hour? Easy.
 

Zyzyxxz

Member
The future of gaming entails much more than a simple fundraiser.

Well I'm hoping that after the game comes out it will sell well and maybe we'll get more indie dev studios who will attempt to pitch the ideas to the gaming community and maybe we'll see people taking risk on ideas that the old school and non-mainstream enthusiasts want.

Mainstream gaming like Call of Duty ain't a bad thing but it shouldn't dictate gaming for everyone.
 

Shaheed79

dabbled in the jelly
Well, I think in the long run, it's going to be digital distribution that saves a lot of genres. RPGs in particular have a very long tail - look at how several years later games like the good Vampire one and Arcanum sell. But it's not the developer that benefits, it's the publisher.
Digital distribution does have its benefits, especially for smaller developers. But it also still has its limitations.
This way, hopefully, the developer will be benefiting from the long term sales - they might use kickstarter in the future, but hopefully won't have to rely on it once they get a game or two released and selling.
That would be nice if it worked out that way for a lot of developers.
I think that's really been one of Obsidian's problems - even though they make pretty good games, they've never been a publisher, only developer, so have never reaped the benefits as they basically just do contract work.

I don't know about you, but that sounds just like capitalism to me. Or at least what has generally been considered to be our version of capitalism, for the past half a century. A few wealthy executives benefiting exponentially more, from the extremely hard work of many skilled workers, is one of the many benefits of our capitalistic societies.

The idea being, that some day we too can become one of those few wealthy execs, who can become even wealthier, by exploiting your very own experienced laborers. Then you can decide to outsource the labor for cheap, and fire the, already low paid, local workers in order to become even wealthier than you know what to do with.

It's almost magical in its duality and perceptual permanence.

Sorry for the off topic rant. It's just that one of the underlining problems, our hobby faces, is much larger than the game industry as a whole. But we aren't suppose to acknowledge the problem or ever say anything bad about the system that helped to birth it.
 

mclem

Member
$22k to go - and $103 for Paypal to pass 100k.

More wonderfully, I think my last-24-hours prediction looks just about right!
 
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