Support NeoGAF

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

- Logline and a few promo pictures from Ep 2 (please spoiler tag any discussion)

- Indiewire interview with Nolan & Joy (from a few months ago at the TCA event)More via the link.

Episode 2 spoiler based on the promo pic:

Spoiler

Oh boy, that sure looks like Flood decided to go into Westworld to see what's going on first hand.

 

[Chopper]

Yeeeeeah no haha. Definitely a host, not sure why you'd think otherwise.

Spoiler

Plus, she says she has died many times in the after-episode preview.

Ah. Okay. Fair. I hadn't seen the preview.

I just thought she was too laid back to be a host. Like, she knew what was going on. Never mind. I take it back.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Great premier. Such quality.

 

[PolishQ]

Seems like that yes. Flooding is because of a faulty cooling system they said while exiting the elevator. I take it normally there would be some ice or something due to cold, and that has melted leaving water on the floors.

I don't think it is underwater. Just an island somewhere.

Even if it's an island, the 83rd sub-level (or whatever it was) would certainly be below sea level.

 

[duckroll]

Even if it's an island, the 83rd sub-level (or whatever it was) would certainly be below sea level.

How many floors high is a tall mountain range?

 

[Kallor]

How many floors high is a tall mountain range?

The mountain is Olympus Mons, and its about 73 floors for sure.

 

[a Master Ninja]

I thought this was a miniseries. This is planned to be a multi-season show?

 

[duckroll]

I thought this was a miniseries. This is planned to be a multi-season show?

Yes. This is essentially HBO's replacement for GoT as it ends. They want another 5-6 season show for the scifi/fantasy crowd.

 

[Sanjuro]

Where is my Vinyl replacement, HBO?

 

[More_Badass]

Yes. This is essentially HBO's replacement for GoT as it ends. They want another 5-6 season show for the scifi/fantasy crowd.

Where's my space opera epic Metabarons show, HBO?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Where is my Vinyl replacement, HBO?

The David Simon porn show.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Where is my Vinyl replacement, HBO?

Ballers. /s

Well, now that I think about it a bit more it sort of is. Rich sports agents instead of producers surrounded by their talent and their personal lives with hip hop replacing the rock and roll.

 

[Sanjuro]

The David Simon porn show.

Forgot about that!

Ballers. /s

Ballers is consistently average to the point of not caring. If Vice Principals didn't air, not sure how it would have done.

 

[vainglorious]

Solid premiere with a few standout moments.

If I had one criticism, it's that the show could use more theme park guest characters. I don't mind the show focusing on the machines, but, in terms of world-building, it felt like there was no reason for the park itself to exist what with so few obvious human attendees. This makes the threat of the machines killing the guests much less pressing, and lowers the stakes considerably.

I don't agree with the show needing more guest characters. The focus on the hosts feels very pointed in terms of exploring the shows themes of reality and consciousness. Otherwise it's literally just Jurassic Park but with Cowboys and Indians. And that's not as interesting.

 

[Valhelm]

The full details are above, but the gist is:

- Terraforming means even though it looks like Utah, it's not actually Utah.
- The instructions to guests include mentions of visiting their nearest Port Authority, which indicates you take a ship of some kind, so it either involves space or ocean travel.
- It also mentions decompression when leaving the park, which may or may not be literal.
- Other documentation mentions "Mainland" which leans back towards it being somewhere in the ocean.

I was leaning towards underwater as opposed to an island, since air travel doesn't seem to be viable, though it might be a self-imposed restriction since planes overhead would break the immersion. Underwater would also make the situation more tense, since it would be harder to escape later on when shit hits the fan. OTOH, the logistics of an underwater facility of this size are pretty insane. You also have a point that they're awfully nonchalant about that leak if it really was underwater.

We'll probably find out for sure soon, but the speculation has been fun for this show. They're doing a good job of providing us some hints.

I'm still gunning for a giant space station connected to an orbital elevator angle. It still fits all the conditions!

Why can't it just be a big swath of desert in Nevada or Namibia or Australia?

 

[More_Badass]

Why can't it just be a big swath of desert in Nevada or Namibia or Australia?

Mainland, charting a course, port authority, and decompression chambers wouldn't really be needed if it was in a desert

 

[Mr. F]

Got the chance to read the pilot script a while back, going to be fun to see how it translates to screen. Glad to hear the impressions are largely positive so far.

 

[lamaroo]

Got the chance to read the pilot script a while back, going to be fun to see how it translates to screen. Glad to hear the impressions are largely positive so far.

Will be interesting to hear your thoughts on how the "meet my maker" scene compares between the two. Feels like something that could have been really cheesy had the performances not been so strong.

 

[The Technomancer]

Oh boy. Ohhhh boy. This could go really good or really bad. As someone who's deeply passionate about machine consciousness there's the hints of promising stuff here, but also some warning signs or just confusion. Right now I don't have a solid grasp on just how capable the current robot versions are of abstract thought, and I can't tell if that's deliberate obfuscation or if the writers aren't sure either

 

[Leunam]

Really enjoyed the premiere but a friend thought it was bland when he compared it to .hack and Sword Art Online. I haven't watched either but would you guys say he's on point? Based on what little I know all I can tell at this point is it involves people in an MMO.

 

[Blablurn]

The premiere was pretty good

 

[More_Badass]

Really enjoyed the premiere but a friend thought it was bland when he compared it to .hack and Sword Art Online. I haven't watched either but would you guys say he's on point? Based on what little I know all I can tell at this point is it involves people in an MMO.

Based on that premise, the two are quite different

 

[Kayhan]

Dolores is totally

Spoiler

Yul Brynner

 

[vainglorious]

I know some are hoping Westworld is in space but it's definitely under water. This is on the Westworld website -

"ENTERING THE PARK
Westworld is the only vacation where you don’t have to pack a thing. The park is all inclusive, and bespoke clothing awaits you, along with everything you need to enjoy your stay. Free yourself of modern inconveniences that inhibit your ability to sever ties with the outside world. Upon booking your dates, our consultants will work with your local port authority to chart your course to the park. Bring nothing; worry about nothing.

LEAVING THE PARK
Even humans need to recalibrate — Westworld is an experience like no other and we have designed the world's finest decompression chamber: the Mesa Gold. At the conclusion of your stay, begin the process of dipping your toe back into the real world: swap adventure stories with other guests, drink award-winning cocktails, experience food prepared by world-renowned chefs, burn off adrenaline at professional-grade athletic complexes. Even here, you can fulfill your every desire."

That's language only used in the context of water. Plus Port Authority and decompression chambers, etc. It's underwater. And the lower levels of the park are flooded on top of it.

 

[Kayhan]

Inevitably one of the hosts will turn out to be human.

And one of the humans running the park will turn out to be a replicant host.

 

[Kayhan]

I also realized that the engineers shutting off Dolores' emotional affect really hurt them in that moment. Because it was pretty clear she was lying (consciously? subconsciously?) but they couldn't tell.

That is a great catch and a poignant point.

 

[Kayhan]

So I'm wondering. Ed Harris' Man in Black is obviously a violent man who doesn't care much for morals, but he also has a very specific objective driven mission. When he drags Dolores into the barn in the beginning, it's implied that he's going to rape her or something, but he could also have been using it as a cover to either get something out of her, or implant something in her. Or... they could be working together. There's obviously something going on here.

Yeah that barn scene may not have been what it looked like.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Really enjoyed the premiere but a friend thought it was bland when he compared it to .hack and Sword Art Online. I haven't watched either but would you guys say he's on point? Based on what little I know all I can tell at this point is it involves people in an MMO.

Was he comparing it to the anime of those? Because both are kind of poop in my opinion.

Westworld seems way more flavorful to me, and I don't really see the comparison anyhow. Those two were about MMOs, and in Westworld we don't really know what, if anything, is "the game" yet.

 

[Salsa]

I loved it

paint it black version was awful tho

 

[antonz]

Oh boy. Ohhhh boy. This could go really good or really bad. As someone who's deeply passionate about machine consciousness there's the hints of promising stuff here, but also some warning signs or just confusion. Right now I don't have a solid grasp on just how capable the current robot versions are of abstract thought, and I can't tell if that's deliberate obfuscation or if the writers aren't sure either

Feels like the progression of sentience is at varying levels for the Hosts. Much of the Fathers actions seem to be driven by his programming to protect his daughter yet there is certainly more there as he seems to have an understanding of what happens day in and day out to Dolores.

 

[Kayhan]

paint it black version was awful tho

shhh......go into a deep and dreamless slumber

 

[elrechazado]

I loved it

paint it black version was awful tho

Time to wipe you. Clearly you are malfunctioning

 

[Burt]

Can't wait for Dolores to reunite with Old Bill

 

[Beer Monkey]

Yes. This is essentially HBO's replacement for GoT as it ends. They want another 5-6 season show for the scifi/fantasy crowd.

I can't blame them. It's got to be cheaper per episode if they pick it up for the long haul.

I didn't say worse, just cheaper.

 

[Salsa]

it aint that it was terrible just unfitting

 

[More_Badass]

I can't blame them. It's got to be cheaper per episode if they pick it up for the long haul.

I didn't say worse, just cheaper.

This first season is already nearly as expensive as current GoT. $10 million per episode

 

[mercenar1e]

This first season is already nearly as expensive as current GoT. $10 million per episode

Season 1 GOT had a budget of $6 million per episode in comparison.

I've got to say I didn't enjoy the first episode of this and thought it isnt nearly as good as GOT.

 

[jfkgoblue]

This first season is already nearly as expensive as current GoT. $10 million per episode

HBO is really trying to strike gold twice, and if this thread length is anything to go by, it seems it is on its way.

 

[The Mule]

paint it black version was awful tho

I didn't think it was all that great either.

The Black Hole Sun cover was perfect though.

 

[More_Badass]

HBO is really trying to strike gold twice, and if this thread length is anything to go by, it seems it is on its way.

I'm happy to be getting in on the ground floor with this. I was seasons behind on GoT, and would go back to each thread to see the comments during episodes after watching. Shows like this, it's fun to be discussing as it happens.

 

[CHC]

it aint that it was terrible just unfitting

I didn't think it was all that great either.

The Black Hole Sun cover was perfect though.

Yeah I really, really did not like Paint it Black. Such a cliched and obvious song to choose and it was so overbearing for what would have otherwise been a solid scene. The scene felt oddly shoved in - which in a way I guess it was supposed to because it was a clean up job. But it felt more like they were just trying to be a bit too cool for their own good.

Black Hole Sun was good though, since it wasn't so completely in your face.

 

[jfkgoblue]

I'm happy to be getting in on the ground floor with this. I was seasons behind on GoT, and would go back to each thread to see the comments during episodes after watching. Shows like this, it's fun to be discussing as it happens.

But the negative side of that is that you have to wait for episodes.

 

[More_Badass]

But the negative side of that is that you have to wait for episodes.

True. It was nice binging five seasons of GoT in a week

But the active post-episode discussion helps pass the time. If the rest of the episodes are as dense as the pilot, it's going to be fun dissecting stuff during the following week

Yeah I really, really did not like Paint it Black. Such a cliched and obvious song to choose and it was so overbearing for what would have otherwise been a solid scene. The scene felt oddly shoved in - which in a way I guess it was supposed to because it was a clean up job. But it felt more like they were just trying to be a bit too cool for their own good.

Black Hole Sun was good though, since it wasn't so completely in your face.

You can easily handwave stuff like that given the premise. It was literally shoved in (they moved the heist up a week early) and of course it's almost kind of over-the-top (it's an exciting event for guests)

And of course the music choice is only cliched and obvious if you're very familar with the song. I've only ever heard it once before, and only recognized it after seeing the name mentioned in the thread

 

[ronco2000]

This first season is already nearly as expensive as current GoT. $10 million per episode

10 million? Does that include actors salary, if not, from what i saw it's more like 5.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

But the negative side of that is that you have to wait for episodes.

It's killing me and we're only one episode in lol.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

It's killing me and we're only one episode in lol.

Now imagine the wait after the first season ends.

Spoiler

Then imagine the bullshit wait between seasons 4 and 5 of Nolan's previous show, POI. Fucking CBS.

 

[Deaf Spacker]

I've never watched a TV show premiere more than once but then along came Westworld.

Do we know if the hosts 'sleep' at night time and that is when the humans are able to remove the dead/broken hosts and replace them? There must be some sort of process as we saw towards the end the humans coming in after the heist.

Also, when they switched Delores's father to a different host, she didn't freak out, I'm guessing that they reprogrammed her or something to recognise him as her father?

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

I've never watched a TV show premiere more than once but then along came Westworld.

Do we know if the hosts 'sleep' at night time and that is when the humans are able to remove the dead/broken hosts and replace them? There must be some sort of process as we saw towards the end the humans coming in after the heist.

Also, when they switched Delores's father to a different host, she didn't freak out, I'm guessing that they reprogrammed her or something to recognise him as her father?

They already said they move hosts around from role to role, where the scripts determine how they behave in their world. It might be difficult for most people to understand this, but the hosts are purely script-driven, meaning they have no genuine emotion or relation to anything in the world, even if the show (based on the movie) still introduces a magical component where they somehow can relate, and not just based on re-associating older scripts. We'll have to wait and see how much they hold on to those real-science (to an extend) principles until the show itself goes 'off-script' into fantasy. Dolores doesn't have 'a father', she has a script that leads her to a routine, where acknowledging another host -using the same rules- on the porch counts as having dealt with 'father' in her script.

It is somewhat unfortunate that they based it directly on the movie, since the movie illustrates many of the concepts (like the hosts being inactive at night, while being repaired) that people have been asking about. Also, the '30 years without incident' and the storage space makes the movie canon, so it's basically mandatory viewing anyway.

What does bother me about that in terms of world rules as compared to reality, is that it renders the show kind of moot, since the original Westworld (and Romanworld, and another area) already had its robots running amok. In 30 years, with superior technology, nobody has grown tired of this park, nor have the robots revolted before? That's hard to believe. They may try to compensate for that later on though.

Better question is what the black family is doing in Westworld and how many other stowaways may exist in that location. And whether Ed Harris is one of them as well. He did say 'been coming here for 30 years' and didn't give a shit about the rules he's supposed to follow, immediately establishing he is not on the park's control grid, and possibly hasn't been for a very long time.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Also, the '30 years without incident' and the storage space makes the movie canon, so it's basically mandatory viewing anyway.

It's basic backstory filling that also doubles as a wink and a nod towards the original movie, it is not outright canonization of the movie. So no, it's not "mandatory" and I wouldn't necessarily expect them to maintain any hard link between the two. Definitely don't expect perfect continuity.

 

[More_Badass]

They already said they move hosts around from role to role, where the scripts determine how they behave in their world. It might be difficult for most people to understand this, but the hosts are purely script-driven, meaning they have no genuine emotion or relation to anything in the world, even if the show (based on the movie) still introduces a magical component where they somehow can relate, and not just based on re-associating older scripts. We'll have to wait and see how much they hold on to those real-science (to an extend) principles until the show itself goes 'off-script' into fantasy.

It is somewhat unfortunate that they based it directly on the movie, since the movie illustrates many of the concepts (like the hosts being inactive at night, while being repaired) that people have been asking about. Also, the '30 years without incident' and the storage space makes the movie canon, so it's basically mandatory viewing anyway.

What does bother me about that in terms of world rules as compared to reality, is that it renders the show kind of moot, since the original Westworld (and Romanworld, and another area) already had its robots running amok. In 30 years, with superior technology, nobody has grown tired of this park, nor have the robots revolted before? That's hard to believe. They may try to compensate for that later on though.

1) It isn't canon. Nolan said it was more of a playful reference, and means to show how long the park has been around

2) In this world, Westworld is kind of like a Disneyland, an institution that has been around for decades and evolved with the times.

3) The recent addition of reveries seems to be what triggered this budding sentience. Would explain why the robots hadn't gained intelligence over all these years.