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[BlackJace]

I couldn't have said it any better. This is exactly how I feel, and I'm just confused at the path Nintendo is taking. Now we're going to get port after port after lazy port, until the nextbox (and/or PS4) is out and then there would be no reason to even buy third party games for Wii U since it won't have anything special. It'll be a "last gen" looking third party game that won't even use the touchscreen.

Jesus you and EatinOlives really need to freaking breath. You're both making assumption after assumption with allmost no basis behind it.

"port after lazy port"
Ok because all signs are pointing to it. /s

They're giving devs a choice in control schemes so there won't be any excuse for why third parties "can't do it". Saying this is misguided is the farthest from the truth. All Nintendo does is make their platforms open to many different angles. This is no different.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Jesus you and EatinOlives really need to freaking breath. You're both making assumption after assumption with allmost no basis behind it.

"port after lazy port"
Ok because all signs are pointing to it. /s

They're giving devs a choice in control schemes so there won't be any excuse for why third parties "can't do it". Saying this is misguided is the farthest from the truth. All Nintendo does is make their platforms open to many different angles. This is no different.

Exactly.

This is just another option. It's far from a doom device.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Seems they're off to a good start, they only are the third most powerful platform for the next-gen!

Depending on how hard "next-gen" threatens to fuck developers up the financial arse, maybe that's a good thing?

 

[Boss Doggie]

Oh how I wish this was the standard controller for the Wii U. Please Nintendo, go back to not having stupid gimmicks!

It rubs me the wrong way seeing as this is gonna be the Wii U’s equivalent of the classic controller from the Wii. Meh.

I'm not following this logic.

The controller is essentially the same thing minus the screen - the positions and such are still the same. This isn't like the Wii Remote -> CC thing.

 

[Amir0x]

Depending on how hard "next-gen" threatens to fuck developers up the arse, maybe that's a good thing?

That's true. Honestly, though, the real thing that needs to change is how long a viable console generation lasts. If console manufacturers are intent on continuing this 5~7 year lifespan shit, the costs of re-starting engine development every new generation is going to sink the remaining developers anyway - even if it's only Wii U type platforms, since developers will still have to invest R&D in getting the most out of Nintendo's quirky interfaces.

Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft need to come to some pact to slow down the pace of console generations.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Did people think that Nintendo was "confused" and "lacked direction" when they revealed the Classic Controller for Wii? Don't answer that, I'm pretty sure I read the same "now third party games will ignore the remote!" and "well now the console has no point!" posts back then.

 

[KillGore]

It's really not, and this is nothing new. Since third-parties have flat-out refused to adapt games to Nintendo hardware and third-parties exclusives are all but dead, Nintendo instead has taken hardware and adapted it for third parties sole for the sake of making it easier on their very narrow designs. This is yet another in line with the Classic Controller, Classic Controller Pro, and Circle Pad Pro. It's hardly a default setup and not something they will ever push very strongly but it is there so that certain gamers and certain developers have less of a transition to make. Do not think this is a big deal, after all it only have 2 seconds worth of mention.

The difference is that all the examples you mentioned didn't "exist" when these console launched, they were introduced AFTER millions of people bought their console. What worries me is that they announced it even before the dull reveal of the console itself, so they seem like they'll push it on consumers. Like I asked before, why would I buy a third party game on wii u if I already have a PS3 and/or 360? Nintendo is trying to attract hardcore gamers, right? I'm pretty sure the majority of these hardcore gamers already have the other two HD consoles. Casual gamers won't care about these games and the ones who will mostly buy them are Nintendo fans who do not purchase other consoles and will finally have third party support. They won't attract hardcore gamers (who already have an Xbox or PS3) making the same game for their system, that's why I would like some extra features with the touchscreen .

Jesus you and EatinOlives really need to freaking breath. You're both making assumption after assumption with allmost no basis behind it.

"port after lazy port"
Ok because all signs are pointing to it. /s

They're giving devs a choice in control schemes so there won't be any excuse for why third parties "can't do it". Saying this is misguided is the farthest from the truth. All Nintendo does is make their platforms open to many different angles. This is no different.

Third parties have not supported Nintendo since the SNES era (not including handhelds) so I don't see why they would dedicate time and money in making games for the Wii U. Nintendo wants to attract hardcore gamers to their console right? using this controller won't be the way because of the reasons I mentioned in my reply to Somnid. Sure, some will buy it regardless, but most probably won't since they already have consoles that plays those games. If most hardcore gamers dont buy the Wii U version of third party games then why would devs even consider developing for it? History would repeat itself, just like it did with the Wii. That's why I believe the wii u version of third party games should have features that those on the PS3/360 version do not, thanks to the touchscreen.

 

[maquiladora]

This. The big selling point of the WiiU is the pad controller. Now it isn't, and yet it is. Make unique things, Iwata says, but here's a generic 360 pad clone. Provide new things, but here's something that it isn't. WiiU is all about the pad, except it's not because here's a 360 controller.

Mixed signals. Mixed signals everywhere. Muddies up their message and I'm left thinking like they're just throwing everything at the wall and sees what sticks instead of being confident in their concept. The U pad with all the buttons of a standard controller is more than enough. I have no clue what compelled Nintendo to go and make a controller that basically said "it's OK, third parties, you can make generic games and completely ignore the whole point of the console".

smh

That is one of the best posts in this thread.

It's almost as if no original thought when into the design of the Pro Controller at all, even down to that sloped ridge along the top just like on the 360 controller. It does seem like something that was done to satisfy developers complaining about the Gamepad instead of adapting to it.

Oh well. At least we can be sure first party Nintendo titles will make full use of the Gamepad.

 

[GopherD]

Seems to me that third parties will still be required to use the Wii U GamePad, though whether or not the screen has to be used is still undetermined. This just offers a more traditional method for gamers who don't want to hold the GamePad and want something akin to the other systems.

I don't think this really suggests much as to whether or not third parties will get the most out of the GamePad. Though maybe it does, I dunno. Either way, it can't hurt to have it.

This is saying to the market that on third party titles, there is no need to utilise the touchscreen functionality as it isn't mandated. This is a huge mistake as very few third parties outside of the launch period will then use it once PS4 and Nextbox hits.

I really don't understand why they would do this.

 

[Rezbit]

I really don't think they should have plugged it as "used for multi-platform games" when really it's to make it possible for 4 people to play games on the one system, as we already know you won't be able to have 4 upads running (can you even have 2?). I guess they didn't want to use that potentially negative factoid as the reason for this controller existing.

 

[chubigans]

Did people think that Nintendo was "confused" and "lacked direction" when they revealed the Classic Controller for Wii? Don't answer that, I'm pretty sure I read the same "now third party games will ignore the remote!" posts back then.

Yeah, in the grand scheme of things this isn't a big deal. I'm just surprised that the console isn't going to 100% revolve around the screen like I thought.

 

[EatinOlives]

Jesus you and EatinOlives really need to freaking breath. You're both making assumption after assumption with allmost no basis behind it.

"port after lazy port"
Ok because all signs are pointing to it. /s

They're giving devs a choice in control schemes so there won't be any excuse for why third parties "can't do it". Saying this is misguided is the farthest from the truth. All Nintendo does is make their platforms open to many different angles. This is no different.

The regular controller was versatile enough to provide the same "open from all angles" approach. Like I said, it has the same number of buttons with essentially the same layout. Explicitly making another controller and calling it "for multiplatforms" is already making the wrong impression and sends a completely mixed signal. They didn't need to do it because this controller provides zero extra functionality over the regular one. It's only weakening the message that they're trying to be unique that they worked very hard to communicate over the livestream show.

 

[Eusis]

This is saying to the market that on third party titles, there is no need to utilise the touchscreen functionality as it isn't mandated. This is a huge mistake as very few third parties outside of the launch period will then use it once PS4 and Nextbox hits.

I really don't understand why they would do this.

This is actually useful for streaming still, so long as they don't make it optional to support that (or make it optional BUT only if you make the touch screen a required part of the game). Plus they had to do this if they weren't going to provide support for 4 Wii U Game Pads, and even if they did it'd be pretty damn expensive versus just getting 3 standard controllers.

 

[Jake Tower]

The controller would be awesome if you could still have your WiiU screen pad work as sort of just a portable mini-map/HUD, and have the pro controller for standard gameplay.

Like plug a little screen into the top of the controller, and it's angled like the Gameboy SP...

I like this idea!

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

The inclusion of the pro controller just makes me think that Nintendo is fracturing their vision for this system. It really doesn't seem like a confident move.

 

[The Lamp]

This better come with the WiiU...I don't want to use that huge-ass screen controller for normal & multiplayer games (like, say, Super Smash Bros. WiiU).

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

That's true. Honestly, though, the real thing that needs to change is how long a viable console generation lasts. If console manufacturers are intent on continuing this 5~7 year lifespan shit, the costs of re-starting engine development every new generation is going to sink the remaining developers anyway - even if it's only Wii U type platforms, since developers will still have to invest R&D in getting the most out of Nintendo's quirky interfaces.

Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft need to come to some pact to slow down the pace of console generations.

Devs that are making PC games won't be making a huge leap (or any leap at all) with new consoles.

 

[LegendofJoe]

The inclusion of the pro controller just makes me think that Nintendo is fracturing their vision for this system.

The tablet has the EXACT same button layout, there is no need to bundle it with the system.

 

[ghostmind]

So we've got this controller, the WiiU tablet, the wiimote (with or without nunchuck) and the Wii Classic Controller.

There is such a thing as too much choice, and this isn't going to help devs make the leap to support the console.


EDIT: I forgot the Wiimote comes in MotionPlus and "original" variations, so there is that as well.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Eh, looks good to me. Yeah, the silhouette is similar to a 360 controller, but the original Xbox S-Controller seemed influenced by the ergonomics of the Gamecube controller, not to mention Microsoft pretty much just flipped Nintendo's B/A/Y/X button configuration, so who gives a shit? I'm just glad to have the comfortable shape of a 360 pad with Nintendo a Nintendo quality d-pad and analog sticks.

Also, assuming this is backwards compatible with Wii games that use the CC, I am excited to boot up Geometry Wars Galaxies without the octagonal gate. It would also be a godsend for NiGHTS: JoD, although I realize I'm like one of ten people on GAF that actually gives a shit about that game.

 

[Buckethead]

 

[Outtrigger888]

As long as they dont announce a new wii mote for the U ill be fine with this. Tablet controller, plus some pro controllers for multiplayer ill be fine with.

 

[linkboy]

So we've got this controller, the WiiU tablet, the wiimote (with or without nunchuck) and the Wii Classic Controller.

There is such a thing as too much choice, and this isn't going to help devs make the leap to support the console.

The only two controllers people are going to focus on are the tablet and the Pro controller.

The Wiimote is hardly going to be used and is mainly supported for BC and nobody will give a crap about the Classic Controller.

 

[The Lamp]

I'm sorry, how many games for the Wii supported all, if not at least most, of the controller types? Smash Bros. Brawl and like 2 or 3 other games?

What makes people think that Nintendo offering more controllers is going to magically give developers incentive to build games around everyone's play style? In reality it'll probably be more like, to play every type of game on WiiU, you'll need every type of peripheral and controller, just like with the Wii.

 

[Hot Coldman]

That's true. Honestly, though, the real thing that needs to change is how long a viable console generation lasts. If console manufacturers are intent on continuing this 5~7 year lifespan shit, the costs of re-starting engine development every new generation is going to sink the remaining developers anyway - even if it's only Wii U type platforms, since developers will still have to invest R&D in getting the most out of Nintendo's quirky interfaces.

Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft need to come to some pact to slow down the pace of console generations.

This definitely needs to happen. I dunno if the Apple route of rapidly revising hardware on at least an annual basis is useful for game development so the opposite is probably the best bet. Sony at least aimed for a 10 year cycle, but they didn't really prepare for it, so that's a step all 3 need to take.

Well, Sony and Microsoft need to take. Nintendo revise consoles whenever they see a problem in the market, it seems- going by Iwata's chatter anyway- so they'll continue at the same pace. And in that case, hey, if their pace of console revision isn't going to be useful to third parties, maybe their reduced power will make up for it! Ha, maybe.

 

[abstract alien]

This better come with the WiiU...I don't want to use that huge-ass screen controller for normal & multiplayer games (like, say, Super Smash Bros. Wii).

I don't understand...

This controller is for the Wii U.

 

[Man]

I believe having the right analog in the upper position makes sense.
It is the precision stick and to me it was always weird having it on the bottom left (on the X360) and forcing your thumb to remain in a cramped position.
Thankfully I will be able to test how this feels on the main gamepad without having to buy the Pro.

 

[teiresias]

Putting aside what I consider to be a weird layout (and I'm fine with going between the analog stick differences between a 360 controller and Dual Shock controller mind you), I really just don't see how this spells any good news for Nintendo if they were "forced" to create this controller.

I mean, initially, if I recall, we were being told the regular screen controller would work just fine for traditional game controlling schemes, apparently not well enough or this wouldn't exist. Unless Nintendo stipulates that if someone has a regular Wii-U screened controller in their hand then the screen is not allowed to be blank or unused.

Even then, that this exists just tells me that they weren't able to get enough third parties to jump on board with that stipulation and support the console with ported software that would be popular. Even then, if this is basically to make it more port friendly, what does that by them? A year, a year and a half maybe of ports where they have somewhat of a graphical advantage, and maybe not enough of a graphical advantage to make someone feel the need to buy the Wii-U for those somewhat superior ports when they can play them on hardware they already own. Even that advantage will be gone as soon as either MS or Sony release their next consoles, so I don't see how this buys them any credence with the "hardcore" in that case, because they'll just get them on the consoles with more capable hardware at that point.

I'd have felt better if they'd shrunk the screen size on the tablet controller and beefed it up so it had more of the ergonomics of a traditional controller. I think that would have been better. This just feels like its drawing away from the central focus of the machine - whatever that really turns out to be.

 

[Amir0x]

Devs that are making PC games won't be making a huge leap (or any leap at all) with new consoles.

so, like, all three of them? *



*

Spoiler

don't worry i am part of PC Master Race, I'm just sayin'... there's fewer and fewer developers that tread both waters

 

[olimpia84]

I don't understand the point of this controller. The Classic Controller Pro was imo the best controller ever made. I guess they want to cash in even more by selling this. Looks cool though and I'll probably end up getting one despite me not liking the 'feel' of the xbox controller that much.

 

[Eusis]

So we've got this controller, the WiiU tablet, the wiimote (with or without nunchuck) and the Wii Classic Controller.

There is such a thing as too much choice, and this isn't going to help devs make the leap to support the console.

You're stretching by counting the Wii Classic Controller. It basically boils down to this:

Wii U Game Pad (plus screen-less version)

Wii Remote (possibly with Nunchuk).

If the Classic Controller is supported it'll be just doing the same thing this controller does, sans rumble, clickable sticks, and maybe analog triggers.

 

[The Lamp]

I don't understand...

This controller is for the Wii U.

I want it to come bundled with the WiiU is what I'm saying.

 

[BlackJace]

Third parties have not supported Nintendo since the SNES era (not including handhelds) so I don't see why they would dedicate time and money in making games for the Wii U. Nintendo wants to attract hardcore gamers to their console right? using this controller won't be the way because of the reasons I mentioned in my reply to Somnid. Sure, some will buy it regardless, but most probably won't since they already have consoles that plays those games. If most hardcore gamers dont buy the Wii U version of third party games then why would devs even consider developing for it? History would repeat itself, just like it did with the Wii. That's why I believe the wii u version of third party games should have features that those on the PS3/360 version do not, thanks to the touchscreen.

So let me just ask you and EO: What do YOU think they would have to do to get third parties back on board/

 

[MrGame&Watch]

I think the amount of discussion on such an afterthought as this controller shows how out of touch GAFers are to the vast majority of gamers and therefore investors

The most important announcement was the Miiverse. It quells all of the investors who are calling for Nintendo to port their shit over to iOS and it puts Nintendo in a good position to evolve with the future of gaming-in the social/mobile/f2p space.

Right now we're called hardcore gamers, but I think there will need to be a new term for people who sit on a couch and play with a "traditional controller". I mean look how excited you(me too I guess) are excited that Nintendo has the same boring controller that Microsoft has.

 

[abstract alien]

I want it to come bundled with the WiiU is what I'm saying.

Ah, gotcha. It would be nice, but I doubt it. If anything, it will be the wiimote/nunchuck that we get in the box.

 

[royalan]

The regular controller was versatile enough to provide the same "open from all angles" approach. Like I said, it has the same number of buttons with essentially the same layout. Explicitly making another controller and calling it "for multiplatforms" is already making the wrong impression and sends a completely mixed signal. They didn't need to do it because this controller provides zero extra functionality over the regular one. It's only weakening the message that they're trying to be unique that they worked very hard to communicate over the livestream show.

I'm still having a hard time figuring out how a secondary controller that gamers would have to go out and buy specifically for local multiplayer is going to make 3rd Parties ignore the controller that comes in the box.

I mean, it's not at all like Nintendo advertised the Wii U as working with multiple GamePads. In fact, anybody paying even the slightest attention to the hardware rumors knows that it would take quite a stretch to make that happen.

Before Nintendo unveiled the pro controller it was previously established that local multiplayer would have to happen with wiimotes. Is that what you preferred?

 

[jediyoshi]

The Classic Controller Pro was imo the best controller ever made.

Looks cool though and I'll probably end up getting one despite me not liking the 'feel' of the xbox controller that much.

Your opinions do not follow popular opinion.

 

[linkboy]

Putting aside what I consider to be a weird layout (and I'm fine with going between the analog stick differences between a 360 controller and Dual Shock controller mind you), I really just don't see how this spells any good news for Nintendo if they were "forced" to create this controller.

I mean, initially, if I recall, we were being told the regular screen controller would work just fine for traditional game controlling schemes, apparently not well enough or this wouldn't exist. Unless Nintendo stipulates that if someone has a regular Wii-U screened controller in their hand then the screen is not allowed to be blank or unused.

Even then, that this exists just tells me that they weren't able to get enough third parties to jump on board with that stipulation and support the console with ported software that would be popular. Even then, if this is basically to make it more port friendly, what does that by them? A year, a year and a half maybe of ports where they have somewhat of a graphical advantage, and maybe not enough of a graphical advantage to make someone feel the need to buy the Wii-U for those somewhat superior ports when they can play them on hardware they already own. Even that advantage will be gone as soon as either MS or Sony release their next consoles, so I don't see how this buys them any credence with the "hardcore" in that case, because they'll just get them on the consoles with more capable hardware at that point.

I'd have felt better if they'd shrunk the screen size on the tablet controller and beefed it up so it had more of the ergonomics of a traditional controller. I think that would have been better. This just feels like its drawing away from the central focus of the machine - whatever that really turns out to be.

The tablet can support standard games, the problem is that the Wii U will only support 2 of them (at most). That impacts multi-player games.

This controller pretty much addresses that issue.

 

[grandjedi6]

Wait, why is the controller black if the rest of the system is going to be white?

 

[ghostmind]

Maybe it would have been better to make a clean break with the Wii and just support the tablet and this controller then? I mean, its not like people need the BC, as the millions of Wii's out there aren't suddenly going away.

Solidify a single control scheme which comes in two form-factors... is not that a better option for devs?

 

[BlackJace]

Wait, why is the controller black if the rest of the system is going to be white?

Common sense would suggest that the system will come in black as well.

 

[LumpOfCole]

I think the amount of discussion on such an afterthought as this controller shows how out of touch GAFers are to the vast majority of gamers and therefore investors

The most important announcement was the Miiverse. It quells all of the investors who are calling for Nintendo to port their shit over to iOS and it puts Nintendo in a good position to evolve with the future of gaming-in the social/mobile/f2p space.

Right now we're called hardcore gamers, but I think there will need to be a new term for people who sit on a couch and play with a "traditional controller". I mean look how excited you(me too I guess) are excited that Nintendo has the same boring controller that Microsoft has.

This controller is very important to players who like games such as Call of Duty, big "pro controller" games which make bucketloads of money for quite a few people. Yes, there are a lot of casual gamers emerging because of iOS and mobile gaming and Wii playing, but they're a very, very different audience. Both groups of people can make a lot of money for investors.

 

[Eusis]

Wait, why is the controller black if the rest of the system is going to be white?

Secretly revealing there'll be a black Wii U, I think. The tablet was also black in the demonstration video.

 

[linkboy]

Wait, why is the controller black if the rest of the system is going to be white?

Because I'm willing to bet there will be a black Wii U, probably at launch.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Wait, why is the controller black if the rest of the system is going to be white?

The skit showed a black system with a black Wii U + Black Wii U Gamepad.
Edit:

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Wait, why is the controller black if the rest of the system is going to be white?

pros are cooler than that dude

 

[MrGame&Watch]

So let me just ask you and EO: What do YOU think they would have to do to get third parties back on board/

Create a market that would support the type of audience that play Call of Duty.

Some ideas

1. Create a separate brand for edgier titles
2. Have Retro or some studio at Nintendo create one of these types of titles
3. Buy some exclusives/timed exclusives

Honestly though, if they can recapture the casual market where it is(f2p, social games, mobile) then it doesn't need these types of consumers. I suggest they try for both though.

 

[Loofy]

The inclusion of the pro controller just makes me think that Nintendo is fracturing their vision for this system. It really doesn't seem like a confident move.

I think they only did this since the system only supports 2 tablet controllers.

 

[The Lamp]

Maybe it would have been better to make a clean break with the Wii and just support the tablet and this controller then? I mean, its not like people need the BC, as the millions of Wii's out there aren't suddenly going away.

But many people don't want to keep generations of consoles around in their living rooms....

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

Putting aside what I consider to be a weird layout (and I'm fine with going between the analog stick differences between a 360 controller and Dual Shock controller mind you), I really just don't see how this spells any good news for Nintendo if they were "forced" to create this controller.

I mean, initially, if I recall, we were being told the regular screen controller would work just fine for traditional game controlling schemes, apparently not well enough or this wouldn't exist. Unless Nintendo stipulates that if someone has a regular Wii-U screened controller in their hand then the screen is not allowed to be blank or unused.

Even then, that this exists just tells me that they weren't able to get enough third parties to jump on board with that stipulation and support the console with ported software that would be popular. Even then, if this is basically to make it more port friendly, what does that by them? A year, a year and a half maybe of ports where they have somewhat of a graphical advantage, and maybe not enough of a graphical advantage to make someone feel the need to buy the Wii-U for those somewhat superior ports when they can play them on hardware they already own. Even that advantage will be gone as soon as either MS or Sony release their next consoles, so I don't see how this buys them any credence with the "hardcore" in that case, because they'll just get them on the consoles with more capable hardware at that point.

I'd have felt better if they'd shrunk the screen size on the tablet controller and beefed it up so it had more of the ergonomics of a traditional controller. I think that would have been better. This just feels like its drawing away from the central focus of the machine - whatever that really turns out to be.

These controllers will serve as the "Other 3". You can't have 4 Upads so the other 3 will have to be something else that is very similar (and cheaper).

Having said that, I think it is unwise to have 2 different types of controllers meant to be used at the same time. It would neuter the Upad as it wouldn't be fair for the first player to have a second screen and no one else. It's would be like the SNES having one SNES controller and the other controller be an NES controller. I am not explaining myself very well but this seems like a bad idea.