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[EatChildren]

There's RE:R!
There's Hope!

Capcom pretty much buried classical RE with their comments about where the franchise should head, but maybe Nintendo getting knock-offs could pay there, establish a niche guys!

Survivor horror will have to come from elsewhere. Revelations was amazing but given Capcom's statements it's clear the genre is well and truly dead over there.

Thankfully creative Western developers like Frictional Games are producing works of art like Amnesia.

 

[DragonSworne]

I think it's a combination of ease of use, social factors, online, achievements, comfort with controls, etc etc.

If Nintendo can legimately replicate it, MS will still have the advantage by the fact they were first and are established among gamers.

The only thing I can see changing the tide is Nintendo's own games. If everything is the same across platforms, Nintendo will have the advantage due to Mario.

But this advantage scares third party developers though :/

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

About what EatChildren said, Japanese games are my preference by a lot, and I do find a lot of western games to be on the bland side, but fuck me silly if there aren't A LOT of western games that also blow me away.

 

[IdeaMan]

After watching Iwata speaking Korean and the constant debate about western 3rd party support. I feel that it is really important/necessary for Nintendo or even Sony to put efforts in opening market in China.

I think everyone agrees that the Japanese games are less influential than they used to be among west audience. Meanwhile the console market in Japan is declining. Those things combined result that a lot of Japanese 3rd parties are in bad shape or shift their focus to handheld.

However there is really some "balance" in China. Japanese games still hold a lot of power because of the similar taste. Even the "Moe" concept also has a large market. Meanwhile western games are popular as well. Chinese gamer can buy R1/R2/R3 PS3 games, or Japan/US 3DS console/games easily because every game retailer provides those kinds of options.

It's one of the big awkward marketing decision of some companies, their reluctance to develop seriously their activities in China.

The gaming market there worth many billions, and it's growing exponentially. A large part of it is asian mmo's, but still, there's an untaped market of many millions of customers, and it's not with their tiny efforts like the IQue joint venture, that they will do it. Ok, the hacking situation is preoccupying there, but the China of 2012 isn't the one of 2002 for example. I've studied the situation actually, and really, there's a lot of potential buyers, and a large part of them play other things, while a portion is importing the Wii from Japan, HK, more and more from Korea also, or Taiwan.

Oh, and their dependence toward the Yen, they loose a lot of money (mainly from benefits less important than they could be). They are too slow to counter this effect.

 

[D_prOdigy]

No one jumps to the defence of eastern studios when people make swinging generalisations about "Japanese developers".

 

[AceBandage]

If Nintendo can legimately replicate it, MS will still have the advantage by the fact they were first and are established among gamers.

The only thing I can see changing the tide is Nintendo's own games. If everything is the same across platforms, Nintendo will have the advantage due to Mario.

But this advantage scares third party developers though :/

As I've said before, I think Nintendo will reveal some features that people don't even know they want (like being able to watch your friends play games a world away) that will tip the tides in their favor a bit.

 

[ASIS]

It's most similar to a PC and uses Direct X.

What is Direct X and can the Wii U use it?

 

[BY2K]

Survivor horror will have to come from elsewhere. Revelations was amazing but given Capcom's statements it's clear the genre is well and truly dead over there.

Thankfully creative Western developers like Frictional Games are producing works of art like Amnesia.

They are working on a new game, if I recall, right? Not an Amnesia sequel, but in the same universe.

 

[Shurayuki]

Survivor horror will have to come from elsewhere. Revelations was amazing but given Capcom's statements it's clear the genre is well and truly dead over there.

Thankfully creative Western developers like Frictional Games are producing works of art like Amnesia.

I have all the Penumbra games and Amnesia on Steam but I can't bring myslef to play them *shiver*
Yeah it's a niche and between RE dying changing and SH getting "Konami'd" the era seems pretty much over, but I don't like first person games at all, and there aren't any quality 3rd person games.

But there was a little jab in there i feel *whistles*

 

[AceBandage]

What is Direct X and can the Wii U use it?

Direct X is the API for shaders and such that Microsoft uses. And no, the Wii U can not use it.

 

[Deguello]

No, but the PS360 were the more optimal option development for a variety of reasons. Just because Nintendo stayed behind a generation and some people aren't happy with the consequences is not a "reason" why devs should be full of shame.

They should be full of shame because they made some pretty fucking awful Wii games and were pretty unapologetic about it, quick to paint the whole userbase and casual and/or Nintendo fanatics (somehow) instead of own up to their own mistakes, and bent over backwards trying to decry the common wisdom of supporting the market leader.

 

[Anth0ny]

So what is it about Xbox360 that makes it the perferred choice of gamers for multiplatform games?

Is it the amount of games?
Is it Xbox live?
Is it because it came out first?
Is it the graphics?
Is it the hype/advertisement?

bolded

 

[HylianTom]

No, but the PS360 were the more optimal option development for a variety of reasons. Just because Nintendo stayed behind a generation and some people aren't happy with the consequences is not a "reason" why devs should be full of shame.

I would be quite sad if efforts weren't foscued on the HD twins, now that Nintendo is entering 7th gen performance. We got alot of great games that, barring the clones, really advanced the medium as a whole. Sure, alot of that was production value, but alot of it was behind the scenes and yes, gameplay too, believe it or not.

Sorry, I just woke up so I'm a lil cranky.

Optimal how?

So the desire for power isn't the bottom line? Interesting.

(this is Moving Day for me, so I'm fighting the crankiness also. I HATE moving, but want to get this over with before the major gaming activities of the year start to really heat-up.)

I'm not calling them shameful. I'm calling them liars. Disingenuous. Two-faced.
When they can make a PC/360/PS3/CELLPHONE version of a game - but deliberately avoid the Wii - I call bullshit, loud and clear.

 

[EatChildren]

About what EatChildren said, Japanese games are my preference by a lot, and I do find a lot of western games to be on the bland side, but fuck me silly if there aren't A LOT of western games that also blow me away.

It's 50/50 for me, and I'm a fickle gamer. There's just too much good shit from all corners of the gaming world for me to ignore. For every Grasshopper game that I buy at launch or faithful Nintendo IP I know I'm going to love there's something incredible from Valve or an inventive, beautiful game from some obscure Eastern European developer.

They are working on a new game, if I recall, right? Not an Amnesia sequel, but in the same universe.

Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs. Same universe (though set many year after), horror, but nobody is sure exactly how it plays.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Same reason the same shit is happening all over the world, including Japan: because money hungry publishers would rather make safe bets versus risky ones. It's not a Western problem. It is a global industry problem.

Very true, it is a global problem, there is no segment of the market where they love risks. But I'd argue it's more of a problem where the pubs are too damn fat and happy. Because a lot of what has been expensively developed and pushed hard in Eastern Europe especially in the FPS genre has been more groundbreaking and interesting than anything western dev's have choked out. S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Metro, even Crysis to a degree were a lot more risky and abstract than anything we usually see in the west.

I guess the great lesson is the less fat and happy dev's/pubs are the better it is for gamers a lot of times, both in the market and in the product. Always better for us if the dev/pub is trying hard to get noticed and take risks, never get too big, never too afraid of losing your cash cow and the struggle will do the rest for us.

 

[Sadist]

About what EatChildren said, Japanese games are my preference by a lot, and I do find a lot of western games to be on the bland side, but fuck me silly if there aren't A LOT of western games that also blow me away.

Batman Arkham Asylum. Can't wait to get City. It's been pretty hard for me, because the PC version is like € 30 now. But I'll wait for the Wii U version because I think it's going to be the GotY edition.

 

[Redford]

They should be full of shame because they made some pretty fucking awful Wii games and were pretty unapologetic about it, quick to paint the whole userbase and casual and/or Nintendo fanatics (somehow) instead of own up to their own mistakes, and bent over backwards trying to decry the common wisdom of supporting the market leader.

Again, that is the only thing they've actively done wrong.

For the rest - putting out a shoddy product - I don't really blame them, because in the gaming industry whatever else is in development besides a studio's main project is usually going to be shit. You all are aware that shitty games exist on the other platforms, right?

If the Wii hasn't the capability to support the flagship games of studios, I don't see why they should pull punches. The industry is not static until the instant Nintendo decides to move its hardware along.

I'm not calling them shameful. I'm calling them liars. Disingenuous. Two-faced.
When they can make a PC/360/PS3/CELLPHONE version of a game - but deliberately avoid the Wii - I call bullshit, loud and clear.

You can't have it both ways. If they make a shitty port of a game, everyone gets angry. If they don't make one at all, everyone gets angrier still.

The only other possibility is them making a good port of a game, and you know as well as I do that these devs are bloating far too much even on the PS360 for that to happen.

 

[BurntPork]

Survivor horror will have to come from elsewhere. Revelations was amazing but given Capcom's statements it's clear the genre is well and truly dead over there.

Thankfully creative Western developers like Frictional Games are producing works of art like Amnesia.

Yeah and we have Silent Hi-

 

[cyberheater]

So what is it about Xbox360 that makes it the perferred choice of gamers for multiplatform games?

Is it the amount of games?
Is it Xbox live?
Is it because it came out first?
Is it the graphics?
Is it the hype/advertisement?

Because despite the incredible hype that Sony generated about the power of PS3, getting to all that that power requires a lot of effort and skill from the devs. On the other hand, Xbox360 is easier to program for and PC games are relatively easy to port over.

Which is why most multiplatform games look better and have better framerates on Xbox360 relative to PS3.

 

[Linkhero1]

Yeah and we have Silent Hi-

and Fatal Frame. Don't forget about...oh wait.

 

[Sadist]

and Fatal Frame. Don't forget about...oh wait.

Well if you're in Euro land Fatal Frame is still alive.

 

[Terrell]

Maybe a bit hyperbolic, but come on.
Every publisher tries to copy whatever is the flavor of the month.
How many Just Dance rip offs have we seen? Guitar Hero? Call of Duty?

It's insane that people don't call them out on this stuff. We see so much copying, especially from Western devs.

And then we have, within the same franchise, a horrible dumbing down of sequels and expansions (the most notorious one being Dragon Age 2).

Devs (or I suppose publishers) simply are completely risk adverse, which is a huge problem with this industry.

For every Amnesia, there are about 5 examples of it being done totally wrong, which is not a flattering statistic. You can trot out loll games and JRPG grindfests all you want, EatChildren, but the fact is that most of those games are HUGELY niche for a reason.

Whereas in the West, they take shits on big name high-selling franchises all the time. One need only look at TUROK to see the prime example of how modern Western game design can suck the soul out of a great franchise.

 

[cyberheater]

What is Direct X and can the Wii U use it?

Direct X is a set of programming library's that provides an abstract layer between a high level programming language and the hardware (GPU, sound etc...).

WiiU will use its own set of library's to talk to the metal.

 

[Shurayuki]

^Project Zero

Hell yes.

Can you already preorder it or smth? Because I'd absolutely do so immediately, just shoot me a link.

 

[HylianTom]

You can't have it both ways. If they make a shitty port of a game, everyone gets angry. If they don't make one at all, everyone gets angrier still.

The only other possibility is them making a good port of a game, and you know as well as I do that these devs are bloating far too much even on the PS360 for that to happen.

I'd still rather the chance of a decent game; even if just one out of ten comes out good, I'd've been more content. That they, by and large, seldom ever took the chance is what peeves me to this day. They could give friggin' cellphones a shot, but not the Wii. Harumph.

 

[EatChildren]

Yeah and we have Silent Hi-

My colleague thought Downpour was surprisingly great, but I don't know. I still think Shattered Memories was on the right path.

Batman Arkham Asylum. Can't wait to get City. It's been pretty hard for me, because the PC version is like € 30 now. But I'll wait for the Wii U version because I think it's going to be the GotY edition.

See, Arkham City is a game that doesn't really play like anything else on the market.

My thumb rule when questioning creativity is to think of a franchise established this generation, regardless of how milked it might be, and then try and think of how many games played exactly like it prior. If you cant think of many, or any, without seriously reaching, then it's obviously creative.

Even something like Assassin's Creed, a franchise that has been milked to shit and one that I'm not particularly fond of, is something almost totally new for this generation. On top of this the leap between AC and AC2 was tremendous, and though AC:B and AC:R milked the formula of AC2, AC3 could very well be a new overhaul over AC2.

Meanwhile Modern Warfare 3 is still, at its core, the same formula as the 2003 game.

Very true, it is a global problem, there is no segment of the market where they love risks. But I'd argue it's more of a problem where the pubs are too damn fat and happy. Because a lot of what has been expensively developed and pushed hard in Eastern Europe especially in the FPS genre has been more groundbreaking and interesting than anything western dev's have choked out. S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Metro, even Crysis to a degree were a lot more risky and abstract than anything we usually see in the west.

I guess the great lesson is the less fat and happy dev's/pubs are the better it is for gamers a lot of times, both in the market and in the product. Always better for us if the dev/pub is trying hard to get noticed and take risks, never get too big, never too afraid of losing your cash cow and the struggle will do the rest for us.

I was lumping Eastern European studios under 'Western' which probably isn't fair. But yes, the fat cat publishers just worsen the problem. It's a vicious cycle.

For every Amnesia, there are about 5 examples of it being done totally wrong, which is not a flattering statistic. You can trot out loll games and JRPG grindfests all you want, EatChildren, but the fact is that most of those games are HUGELY niche for a reason.

Whereas in the West, they take shits on big name high-selling franchises all the time. One need only look at TUROK to see the prime example of how modern Western game design can suck the soul out of a great franchise.

Turok was well and truly on the path to pure shit long before this generation started.

 

[Terrell]

Direct X is a set of programming library's that provides an abstract layer between a high level programming language and the hardware (GPU, sound etc...).

WiiU will use its own set of library's to talk to the metal.

Yeah, it uses an industry-standard non-Microsoft equivalent, OpenGL. The way you wrote it made it sound completely proprietary, dude, just saying.

 

[Redford]

To be clear, all I'm arguing against is this active malice that these devs are being accused of. They may have grown to dislike the Wii, but the results that you are pointing to as evidence are the results of a scrappily-run industry in general; with ridiculous crunch-times and whatnot existing, it's to be expected.

 

[Shurayuki]

I'd still rather the chance of a decent game; even if just one out of ten comes out good, I'd've been more content. That they, by and large, seldom ever took the chance is what peeves me to this day. They could give friggin' cellphones a shot, but not the Wii. Harumph.

I really hope we get some HD Collections or hell even REmakes on WiiU, before we just get games dumped on us and then everybody goes "but KH:3D" didn't sell, now we'll not make games for you anymore". Build a base, ease a transition and get it in peoples heads you will actually put effort in a Nintendo-System game, it's silly you have to do this but it's your own fault. Capcom MH:3G to MH4 is how you do it, and I hope it works for them to set an example of how to not be stupid.
(silly square just release KH3 and be done with it)

To be clear, all I'm arguing against is this active malice that these devs are being accused of. They may have grown to dislike the Wii, but the results that you are pointing to as evidence are the results of a scrappily-run industry in general; with ridiculous crunch-times and whatnot existing, it's to be expected.

It's both, I'm not convinced the hate that is in the fanbase isn't in the devs either, and they've done a pretty poor job proving a point that it's not like that. Meanwhile in Japan Iwata seems to actually have turned around some of the guys who left because Yamauchi was a bit...interesting. It's not like it was anything new with the Wii, just that before they had the excuse that the systems weren't anywhere near the install base.

 

[AceBandage]

To be clear, all I'm arguing against is this active malice that these devs are being accused of. They may have grown to dislike the Wii, but the results that you are pointing to as evidence are the results of a scrappily-run industry in general; with ridiculous crunch-times and whatnot existing, it's to be expected.

There are huge problems with the way the industry is run, yes.
Huge budgets for little pay off (usually). Giant teams working 80 hour weeks.

It just can't go on. Something is going to give, and it's not going to be pretty.

 

[lordfroakie]

I think the hypetrain pic needs to be updated

 

[Deguello]

To be clear, all I'm arguing against is this active malice that these devs are being accused of. They may have grown to dislike the Wii, but the results that you are pointing to as evidence are the results of a scrappily-run industry in general; with ridiculous crunch-times and whatnot existing, it's to be expected.

Well that's great. I'm glad they weren't deliberately making bad games. They were just unintentionally making bad games.

And see, this is how third parties are viewed on Nintendo's consoles. Animosity cuts both ways here. And if Nintendo is going to make grand and large attempts to court third parties and try to meet them halfway, then third parties have to go the other half. They have bad reputations that need fixing too.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I think if the industry were to get to the armageddon point where only the HUGE players can stay alive due to budgets, Nintendo would thrive from that, considering how endlessly popular their franchises are, and they don't rely on high budgets as a requirement for making them so. Whereas a game like Uncharted 2 and 3 kind of rely on that big spectacle feeling/look which is quite expensive.

 

[hyduK]

For every Amnesia, there are about 5 examples of it being done totally wrong, which is not a flattering statistic. You can trot out loll games and JRPG grindfests all you want, EatChildren, but the fact is that most of those games are HUGELY niche for a reason.

Whereas in the West, they take shits on big name high-selling franchises all the time. One need only look at TUROK to see the prime example of how modern Western game design can suck the soul out of a great franchise.

Really? TUROK? That franchise hasn't had anything worthwhile since Seeds of Evil.

 

[AceBandage]

I think if the industry were to get to the armageddon point where only the HUGE players can stay alive due to budgets, Nintendo would thrive from that, considering how endlessly popular their franchises are, and they don't rely on high budgets as a requirement for making them so. Whereas a game like Uncharted 2 and 3 kind of rely on that big spectacle feeling which is quite expensive.

They could probably expand by gobbling up the smaller teams that leave and start pumping out titles pretty quick.

 

[Shurayuki]

Well that's great. I'm glad they weren't deliberately making bad games. They were just unintentionally making bad games.

And see, this is how third parties are viewed on Nintendo's consoles. Animosity cuts both ways here. And if Nintendo is going to make grand and large attempts to court third parties and try to meet them halfway, they have to go the other half. They have bad reputations that need fixing too.

Ubisoft pretty openly told us they make shit cheap games to fund their nice HD games. And everybody else did the same thing, they just didn't tell us. It's really not a big mystery how it all happened.

 

[Linkhero1]

I think if the industry were to get to the armageddon point where only the HUGE players can stay alive due to budgets, Nintendo would thrive from that, considering how endlessly popular their franchises are, and they don't rely on high budgets as a requirement for making them so. Whereas a game like Uncharted 2 and 3 kind of rely on that big spectacle feeling/look which is quite expensive.

Honestly it seems to be heading that way. A lot of devs and smaller publishers have died this generation. Pretty sure someone posted a list before.

 

[HylianTom]

There are huge problems with the way the industry is run, yes.
Huge budgets for little pay off (usually). Giant teams working 80 hour weeks.

It just can't go on. Something is going to give, and it's not going to be pretty.

In the end, it seems like something that would make for fascinating material for a business college course. Hell, you could probably model several semesters of teaching material, with each semester looking at the industry from a different angle.

I just hope that Nintendo continues to play it safe for the time being, even if it comes at the expense of a duct-taped xbox360 or so. Make it through the transition, and they'll be able to scoop-up a larger share of whatever remaining support is available to be scooped. The mindset around Nintendo seems far too engrained at this point to fundamentally change things - until an earthquake comes along to fundamentally change the landscape around all of the characters.

To be clear, all I'm arguing against is this active malice that these devs are being accused of. They may have grown to dislike the Wii, but the results that you are pointing to as evidence are the results of a scrappily-run industry in general; with ridiculous crunch-times and whatnot existing, it's to be expected.

In most cases I'll admit you're right - I really don't think it's active malice. In a few cases, I get a hunch that they see Nintendo and go, "oh, them? Ha. No," and they'd be less than kind when given a truth serum.. but I have no concrete proof; it's the tinfoil hat belief of a fanman.

Ubisoft pretty openly told us they make shit cheap games to fund their nice HD games. And everybody else did the same thing, they just didn't tell us. It's really not a big mystery how it all happened.

And when they apologized to Nintendo fans in 2007 for shoddy Wii games, they promised better efforts in the future. Looking at what Wii got compared to the HD Twins from that point on, I'd say they're full of dogshit. Ubi earned the distrust and disdain that many of us have for them.

 

[Redford]

Well that's great. I'm glad they weren't deliberately making bad games. They were just unintentionally making bad games.

And see, this is how third parties are viewed on Nintendo's consoles. Animosity cuts both ways here. And if Nintendo is going to make grand and large attempts to court third parties and try to meet them halfway, then third parties have to go the other half. They have bad reputations that need fixing too.

Yeah, because the platform wasn't worth their full efforts. Nintendo dropped the ball. I don't see why people are still perplexed and angry about this.

And sure, for the first bit. But Nintendo better be ready to make the ongoing effort, which I am not doubting but not fully assured of, either.

 

[DCKing]

Although the Wii U will most likely support an API that is quite similar to OpenGL, it is quite likely that it won't be the preferred way to program the system. APIs based on OpenGL are available on the 3DS and PS3, but almost all games use a different way to program the graphics. The Wii U will likely have the same. OpenGL is often perceived as clunky and too generic.

 

[AceBandage]

Yeah, because the platform wasn't worth their full efforts. Nintendo dropped the ball. I don't see why people are still perplexed and angry about this.

And sure, for the first bit. But Nintendo better be ready to make the ongoing effort, which I am not doubting but not fully assured of, either.

It was a mutual screwing over by both Nintendo and third parties.
Blaming just one or the other ignores a lot of factors.

 

[invaderzim69]

Sure feels different in here today. I'll come back later. Sigh....

 

[HylianTom]

I really hope we get some HD Collections or hell even REmakes on WiiU, before we just get games dumped on us and then everybody goes "but KH:3D" didn't sell, now we'll not make games for you anymore". Build a base, ease a transition and get it in peoples heads you will actually put effort in a Nintendo-System game, it's silly you have to do this but it's your own fault. Capcom MH:3G to MH4 is how you do it, and I hope it works for them to set an example of how to not be stupid.
(silly square just release KH3 and be done with it)

I know that a lot of folks would groan about ports from the HD Twins, but I'd gladly take the best of this past generation. To be able to play those kinds of good games and Nintendo's fantastic library on one machine would be something I think more people would welcome. Especially if the Wii U were to get the definitive editions of those games.

In that kind of situation, I really hope that the Wii U userbase comes forward to show that, yes, we do buy those kinds of games. Kinda like we did with RE4: Wii Edition (which, for some reason, didn't count for many developers).

 

[shadyspace]

Revelations was amazing?

 

[Redford]

It was a mutual screwing over by both Nintendo and third parties.
Blaming just one or the other ignores a lot of factors.

Mhm, I don't mean that in a condemning way. Should have put "for third-parties".

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Sure feels different in here today. I'll come back later. Sigh....

real discussion for once, it's exhilarating.

 

[Linkhero1]

I know that a lot of folks would groan about ports from the HD Twins, but I'd gladly take the best of this past generation. To be able to play those kinds of good games and Nintendo's fantastic library on one machine would be something I think more people would welcome. Especially if the Wii U were to get the definitive editions of those games.

In that kind of situation, I really hope that the Wii U userbase comes forward to show that, yes, we do buy those kinds of games. Kinda like we did with RE4: Wii Edition (which, for some reason, didn't count for many developers).

I gladly take them as well. If Wii U keeps on getting the same third party support 360/PS3 and then down the line 720/PS4 receive then I'll be a one console guy this coming generation. Just need my Fallout and CoD fix on one platform and I'm set.

Kinda sad to see they didn't take RE4: Wii Edition sales seriously but it was enough to give us Tatsunoko vs Capcom

 

[ASIS]

Direct X is a set of programming library's that provides an abstract layer between a high level programming language and the hardware (GPU, sound etc...).

WiiU will use its own set of library's to talk to the metal.

Could you please elaborate more on that? If I understand correctly it means that it is just a layer between the programming language and hardware. Correct?

So what is the difference between a "programming library" and a "high level programming language" and why does the hardware need a "layer" to communicate?

I'm pretty sure I got everything wrong

 

[HylianTom]

Yeah, because the platform wasn't worth their full efforts. Nintendo dropped the ball. I don't see why people are still perplexed and angry about this.

And sure, for the first bit. But Nintendo better be ready to make the ongoing effort, which I am not doubting but not fully assured of, either.

I don't understand the mindset where, at one point in time, X Level of Power/Features is worth "full effort" and then - just because there's something better available on the market - X Level is suddenly not worth that full effort. It reeks of petty e-peen waggling more than anything else.

This might be a fundamental part of where developers and I don't see eye to eye. Hardware that was good enough in 2006 isn't magically unworkable crap just because the new 2007 hardware is better.

real discussion for once, it's exhilarating.

I love it. This is when the thread shines. And it's proof that not all Ninthings are a brainwashed, single-thoughtset horde. We argue, just like all families do.

 

[Deguello]

Yeah, because the platform wasn't worth their full efforts. Nintendo dropped the ball. I don't see why people are still perplexed and angry about this.

And sure, for the first bit. But Nintendo better be ready to make the ongoing effort, which I am not doubting but not fully assured of, either.

No. Nintendo made high quality games for the market leader, regardless of technical qualities of the system. This led to Mario Kart Wii being the best selling game this entire generation, and Wii Sports Resort being the second highest.

Nobody pointed a gun at major publishers heads and told them that the Wii wasn't worth their efforts. They weren't "forced" to develop games for it. They just did. And they were mostly pretty goddamn bad. Hence, they have a bad reputation that needs fixing.