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[Kiriku]

Just a question that popped up.

One can't deny the fact that there are advantages to be found with a console equipped with a HDD. However, I remember hearing something about the next-gen console from MS was not going to contain a HDD. Also, I'm pretty confident pirating has grown so big for Xbox partly because of the HDD and I'm sure MS knows that as well. Don't know how much of an impact that will have on their decision though.

So, do you think Sony or MS are going to bother with HDD's next-gen? And what about Nintendo?

 

[Buggy Loop]

I think piracy has become the main issue, sony not supporting HDD for their pstwo even though in japan the PS2 HDD is external, and rumors of microsoft not having one in xbox 2. A proprietary HDD ala ipod, with a good encryption would do the job quite nicely, or even a 512/1GB memory flash card built internally, they cost a bit more but in mass production and without safety casing since it could be a not so expensive solution. Im still betting on the proprietary HDD, since the main problem with xbox is that its replaceable with a PC one, same with PS2.

Kutaragi keeps hyping game download via broadband with PS3, and since they want to offer some multimedia features with their consoles, TiVo wouldnt be a surprise here.

Nintendo? Naw, the internal memory card would probably be an option they would be looking for, maybe even one of matrix's technology.

 

[pcostabel]

According to the rumors, Xenon won't have a HDD. Sony is removing HDD support from PS2, so I doubt they will have it in PS3. Nintendo is not likely to add cost to Revolution with an HDD, especially considering their stance on online support.

Bottom line, a HDD is pretty much useless in a console. There might be multimedia version of next gen machines similar to the PSX with a HDD, but the base models won't have one.

 

[Xellos]

MS, Sony, and Nintendo all should put HDDs in their consoles. At the very least HDD (or another comparable storage device) should be optional from day 1 for game saves, downloadable content (including demos), custom soundtracks, and to help with loading times.

I doubt any of the console manufacturers will include one next-gen though. MS hasn't confirmed it yet, which is discouraging. Sony might include one, but then again they just pulled HD support from their new model PStwo, which is also discouraging. Nintendo putting a HDD in their console is highly doubtful; they've been behind the curve on hardware features for a while now.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Really a hard drive is only really useful if you want to mod the ass out of it *hugs xbox*
I think it's a baaad idea from a "making money" point of view As I don't think the hard drive in my xbox had done shit all for my games really. It's a terrific media centre though.

Xbox actually hurt themselves with the hard drive in my universe, because my xbox with mod is going to be great for years past the launch of Xenon. And since I still play halo every week and will continue the trend with Halo 2, I'm not seeing a reason to jump on board Xenon. once halo 3 drops though. sold.

 

[Ghost]

You say theres no advantages to having a HDD but i for one will miss them for a non piracy reason, save games, every time i turn my PS2 on after playing xbox for a while i get infinitely frustrated with the bloody memory card "checking" and other pauses related to it, the HDD in xbox did at least do away with that. I agree though that they probably wont be in next gen consoles, they caused more problems than they solved unfortunately, i would lke to see some kind of persistant large storage device for cache purposes though.

 

[Chi-Town]

"Bottom line, a HDD is pretty much useless in a console."
"Really a hard drive is only really useful if you want to mod the ass out of it"

Tell this to people who don't have to buy extra memory cards and like listening to their own soundtracks.

 

[aku:jiki]

HDD's themselves aren't what fucked the Xbox up (in Europe, at least), the timing was. Chipping a PS2 was/is hard/expensive as fuck, as was DVD-R-drives (expensive, that is, not hard). Along came the Xbox and was way easier to mod and didn't require any kind of a burner to pirate. I mean, the console scene would probably look completely different if pirating for a PS2 was easier than it is.

Hopefully console devs realize this and put in HDD's (or similar alternatives with the same end result) purely for the storage reasons. Custom soundtracks, and especially the almost infinite save space are two amazing things. You can even record your own replay videos in shooters like Shikigami no Shiro. I always go with the Xbox version of a multi-platform title nowdays. Always! Simply because I like to keep saves around, and don't want to have to shift them around and/or buy a new memory card every other day.

 

[Kiriku]

"Bottom line, a HDD is pretty much useless in a console."
"Really a hard drive is only really useful if you want to mod the ass out of it"

Tell this to people who don't have to buy extra memory cards and like listening to their own soundtracks.

Also, I think in the right hands, a HDD can make games very dynamic since any data on the HDD can be changed while playing. I just don't think we've seen many games make use of the HDD in a creative way.

 

[border]

I expect that Xenon will have a significant amount of flash memory (512mb, 1 gig) for some songs and temporary caching. It still poses a problem for downloadable content....with game levels and data getting bigger and bigger, the flash drive would still fill up pretty fast. The problem is that even as flash memory gets cheaper, the size of stuff that needs to be stored gets larger.

 

[jarrod]

So... when am I going to get a HDD in my handhelds? I'd like an iGBA...

 

[aku:jiki]

I just don't think we've seen many games make use of the HDD in a creative way.

Blinx!

It still poses a problem for downloadable content...

Good call, I forgot about DLC. I definitely don't want to have to see that go next gen...

 

[Kiriku]

Blinx!

See, when Blinx is the only example, something is wrong.
Seriously though, Blinx had some cool features that made use of the HDD, but I think it was only scratching the surface when it comes to possibilites.

 

[element]

DLC can be taken care of in creative ways. Just depends on how you want to do it.

There are games that would be significantly different without the hard drive in Xbox. Games like Fable, KOTOR, KOTOR 2, Jade Empire, Forza, and others would be very different in their features without a hard drive.

 

[etiolate]

An internal sort of flash card, like the matrix carts would be nice. I have like 4 memory cards. It's a headache.

 

[border]

Would anybody object to it if both Sony and Microsoft just decided to push ridiculously large memory cards? Like have a 128MB standard model and then a 1GB model for everybody that wants to store a bunch of downloadable content and ripped music....

 

[aku:jiki]

Like have a 128MB standard model and then a 1GB model for everybody that wants to store a bunch of downloadable content and ripped music....

That would be cool if Sony's devkits came with less crappy memory card routines. Seriously, what the hell is Jak II saving over a full megabyte? I think Sony does that shit on purpose!

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

I know there's not much to go on in this but I think Sony may go with a HDD or at least something along those lines. I still think Kutaragi wants PS to evolve into an all in one entertainment device. I don't think removing HDD support from the redesigned PS2 is going back on this idea but an acceptance that they can't sell the ideas that require a HDD by having it as a standalone peripheral. The PSX and PSP setup just seem to indicate that Sony are still interested in moving their machines beyond being 'just' a games machine. Unless the multimedia aspects of the PSP really fall flat I think Sony will keep along the course they are.

MS I think will drop it but try some halfway house solution unless Sony give strong indication or even confirmation that they'll have a HDD in the PS3 before Xenon launches.

Nintendo I don't think will just slap an HDD in the Revolution but will try their own solution towards the same goal.

 

[etiolate]

Would anybody object to it if both Sony and Microsoft just decided to push ridiculously large memory cards? Like have a 128MB standard model and then a 1GB model for everybody that wants to store a bunch of downloadable content and ripped music....

I would like it, but then I sense EA making their saves 128MBs.

 

[neptunes]

Deadmeat predicts that microsoft migh use flash media in thier next console.

He stated that Msystems would be the suplier.

It's also used in the Gizmondo IIRC.

 

[The Faceless Master]

as far as xbox, piracy and the hdd go, there was xbox piracy via burned dvds and cds long before people started messing with the hdd... kind of like how there was ps2 piracy long before hdloader, only with a much wider gap (years as opposed to months)... having a hdd didn't lead to piracy...

this is purely a cost cutting measure, the cost of a hdd is more than the cost of not having a hdd ($0)... and think about how much money ms lost on not selling a few million memcards...

 

[element]

as far as xbox, piracy and the hdd go, there was xbox piracy via burned dvds and cds long before people started messing with the hdd... kind of like how there was ps2 piracy long before hdloader, only with a much wider gap (years as opposed to months)... having a hdd didn't lead to piracy...

The difference between burning it yourself and simply just copying the game and playing is significant.
If all I have to do is place a chip in my Xbox and put a disc in and say 'copy', that is much different then having buy a DVD-R, buy blank DVDR, and hope the copy turns out ok.

 

[G4life98]

i say nintendo and sony both have internal storage of some sort out of the box and microsoft goes for an external solution since the purse strings will be pulled a little tighter next-gen.

 

[cvxfreak]

I remember hearing a rumor about the Revolution hardware set up including a small harddrive... who knows.

 

[Nerevar]

if MS didn't use a standard PC hard drive you woudln't have nearly as many problems as you have now. I mean, take their DVD player - it had a custom interface that required a little bit of work to replace with a standard PC DVD drive. If they did the same with a hard drive, I'd bet it would cut pirating down by a large percentage. But with the ease of no-solder mod chips + easily replacable hard drives + standard network interface meant that it was far too easy to mod the big box.

 

[kaching]

Deadmeat predicts that microsoft migh use flash media in thier next console.

He stated that Msystems would be the suplier.

Oh, he does, does he? Maybe that'd be less because he predicted it and more because they announced it?

http://www.m-sys.com/Content/Corporate/Press/prInfo.asp?id=615

 

[mrklaw]

why not store your saves etc online? And sell memory cards for those without internet connections?

Then you don't need to worry about how big your saves are, and you also have a support path in case your machine fucks up and you need a new one.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Well, it seems like there will still be memory cards...though, I really hope that if there are, you really shouldn't need more than one...doubtful, I know. Just gimme a USB port on the console so that I can use optional features, like custom soundtracks and downloadable content on an optional external HDD.

 

[Rhindle]

If it costs $40 to integrate a HDD, just charge $340 rather than $300 for the damned console.

The mind boggles at the thought that anybody would prefer to pay $25 for an 8MB memory card rather than $40 for a 40GB hard drive.

Just offer the hard drive as an option alongside memory cards. I'll bet the adoption rate for the HDD will be 80%+.

 

[Fafalada]

The mind boggles at the thought that anybody would prefer to pay $25 for an 8MB memory card rather than $40 for a 40GB hard drive.

There's a fair bit of difference on pricing of those two items - one is a ripoff, the other is not so much.
While console makers happily rape people on memory cards - the retail prices for Flash memory for other devices are ~25$ for 256MB! (Be it memory stick, CF, MMC, SD whatever) - and they can be used in multiple devices too.

Meanwhile, 30-40$ for a 40GB HDD is a pretty much what you'd pay for it if you bought it separately right now (if you can still find one, they are getting scarce...).

 

[B E N K E]

Sony will launch a 64 meg memory card for PS2 next year. I expect memory cards will be many times bigger than that next generation to enable downloadable content. But a HDD is apparentely not so desired from developers (since almost noone takes advantage of it) and considering the security problem I think we won't see them next generation.

 

[Suikoguy]

It all depends on if Blue Ray for PS3 is writeable, if it's not and there is no HDD then FU sony.
If it is... then Problem Solved!

 

[kaching]

Latest press release from Sony on Blu-Ray in PS3 only mentioned the ROM format.

In general, if there isn't an HDD or at least a multi-format flash media reader in every next gen console, or at least some solution for high capacity, swappable flash media, I may very well rebel as well. You can grab multi-card flash readers for less than $15. Flash media capacity at reasonable prices would at least provide for the needs of game saves, custom soundtracks and downloadable content.

 

[User 406]

I'll say one thing, if Sony puts a hard drive in the PSX3 as part of the standard config, they had damn well better make memory card support in games mandatory for all developers. After seeing various Xbox owners on this forum suffer the loss of game saves because of a hard drive crash, the inability to copy some saves to a replacement machine, or that one where someone sent in their console to get the DVD drive fixed and ended up having the hard drive reformatted by tech support, there's no fucking way I want that kind of thing happening to me. So far, I've had consoles fail on me, but I haven't lost any save games. Then there's the convenience aspect of being able to take saves to someone else's house without the machine. If it's left up to developers, well, we've seen what happens. :/

 

[SyNapSe]

I really, REALLY hope that Sony/MS/Nintendo choose to support some type of large storage medium if they wont include HDD. You can't go backwards and not have DLC next gen. . I agree with someone else. It would be nice to get early "demo's" of some games downloadable.

The HDD standard in the Xbox is one of the best things about the console! Those Memory cards add up in cost after a while.. not to mention are annoying having to shift around.

 

[Meier]

I love the Xbox's hard drive and I dont even have a modded one. The load/save times are awesome -- sucks though when developers dont let you copy save files to memory cards though..