Bad timing on this post with people giving out about LNs.
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Winter Anime 2016 |OT2| Bellariology, Puellology and Simulacrumology
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Bad timing on this post with people giving out about LNs.
So most light novels don't fall into incest, harem action, or reincarnation stuff (or all the above in some cases) and it's just the wrong ones that are getting adapted?
SliceSabre
Banned
PdotMichael
Banned
The KonoSuba episode today was just wow in several ways.
When I went to BookOff I was usually looking for stuff I already had in mind (Umineko manga and Monogatari, Durarara, Baccano, Kokoro Connect and Haruhi LNs), so I can't say I was looking at everything out there or that those works would be representative of the medium.
My point was that it'd be nice if someone who lived in Japan and was more knowledgeable about LNs could chip into the conversation, since it's clear that the west (and anime) gets mostly trashy LNs, but I was wondering how badly the crap-to-decent LN ratio was if you considered all LNs rather than those that make it into the west or get adapted into anime series.
@Sabre: I'd say that it's probably because little sisters tend to be more about the brother getting the assertive position in their relationship, while big sisters tend to be the ones in charge and pigeonhole the brother into the submissive role. Of course some people like big sisters that take care of them more than little sisters that they can take care of, but the younger sister option is more prone to cuteness, and I guess the little brother is the one that gets put into cute situations when paired with a big sister.
Dedication Through Light
Member
odd thought Wit would give another Jump Square manga a try.
That has Uchiyama so may watch if it gets licensed.
Lalalandia
Member
I agree, it would be almost impossible for us to be getting an actually representative slice of what LN titles are given the broader demographics of the local market in Japan. I'd be as interested to learn if 'this will export well' is a factor in deciding whether to include certain elements or not. I've a suspicion that there's a negative feedback loop in play for a lot of this stuff.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I really doubt that non-Japanese audiences play any significant factor in the minds of LN authors and editors when creating LN series. LN sales charts show that anime adaptations accurately reflect what the most popular LN series in Japan are.
For reference, here are the best selling LNs of the first half of 2015:
Aaronrules380
Member
I think the issue is the audience is largely different and more niche compared to manga, which is fairly mainstream as a whole in Japan and has far more variety due to this, whereas light novels seem to pander mostly to otaku as the audience. Obviously there are otaku centric novels, and non otaku centric LNs, but because of the general audience of each group, there's a much greater variety of popular manga then LN. And since an unpopular work is almost never getting an anime because anime are expensive, the vast majority of light novel anime are based on shitty otaku centric works. And this is a trend that has increased over time. A lot of the works you mentioned aren't exactly recent series
PdotMichael
Banned
I see people ignoring the big market of live action adaptations.
I liked NGNL's take on its 'game' theme for its story, can't say the same about everything else. Incessant fan service moments, often turning me off.
Maybe we could look at this compilation of the most-liked LNs? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kono_Light_Novel_ga_Sugoi!
The trashy shows I managed to spot in there were SAO (which ranked really high), OreImo, NGNL and DanChigai, but there were several ones that were actually considered good such as Haruhi, Spice and Wolf, Rokka no Yuusha (at least I liked the anime adaptation), SNAFU, Durarara, Baccano, Toradora, Monogatari and Kino's Journey.
Aaronrules380
Member
The thing is that the LN market has been getting progressively more trashy. Looking at the popular ones 10 years ago is irrelevant to the current situation
I highly doubt it. That's like saying young adult books have completely gone to shit since Twilight.
Lalalandia
Member
Damn the numbers suggest that we are getting a broadly representative slice of LN, the live action stuff is interesting though I wonder if there's a tendency for more SoL stuff to go into there? Given the costs of live action it would seem simpler to stick to the more straight forward titles. From what I can see on CR much of it appears to be SoL but given how bad I am at judging what an anime is about from it's cover image I'll defer to anyone with actual experience here.
Cheers for the replies folks my list of stuff to watch keeps getting longer with every answer
Cheers for the replies folks my list of stuff to watch keeps getting longer with every answer
A light novel(All you need is Kill) had the most successful hollywood adaption and international success of all time of any manga/light novel/any japanese literature if Im not mistaken. Feel free to contradict that if you can think of another.
So I guess light novels will always have that.
So I guess light novels will always have that.
PdotMichael
Banned
The chart is biased to the ones with many releases. Yahari released three different volumes between November 2014 and June 2015.
It wasn't a good way of proving a point. Okitegami by Nishio got a very successful live action drama and live action dramas are even more conservative than anime in what they are picking.
It wasn't a good way of proving a point. Okitegami by Nishio got a very successful live action drama and live action dramas are even more conservative than anime in what they are picking.
SliceSabre
Banned
So in other words we blame LN readers for loving these trashy stories.
right? Come on I need someone to blame for the 3 magical school harem LN adaptations we get a season.
right? Come on I need someone to blame for the 3 magical school harem LN adaptations we get a season.
At least according to that thing, SNAFU's leads have taken over the top male/female character charts in the last two years and the top spot in the LN rankings, but it's true that you can see trash shows below it such as SAO, NGNL, DanChigai and OreImo. It's probably an unavoidable outcome as LNs try to become more mainstream and things are flooded with whatever's the flavor of hte month, but that does happen with all other mediums as well (remember all the grindy Farmville clones and indie platformers with physics as a main game mechanic?).
Dedication Through Light
Member
Some of that just feels more like the company betting on something to be the next big thing.
In any case we have seen them bet on something that wasnt even popular (Magical Warfare). Why it got an anime one has to really wonder
Cornbread78
Member
Dedication Through Light
Member
Waiting for the day when Mokushiroku Arisu, Last Savior, Doll Masters, and the Isolator get animated.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
My point isn't that all light novels are irredeemable trash, but that the most popular light novels typically get anime adaptations. There are a few light novels that get live-action adaptations, such as Okitegami and Biblia Koshodou no Jiken Techou, but that's relatively uncommon.
PdotMichael
Banned
I don't know. Publishers for trying to advertise the "up and coming" LNs by making anime adaptions?
Things get way better once she shows up with a robotic hand
that's just worn over her real, still intact one
Unless this isn't Grisaia.
PdotMichael
Banned
It's quite logical that the most successful LNs also getting an anime at some point.
But most LN adaptations are ways to push sells and the original works aren't even selling that well. See how Konosuba perfomed before the anime and how it performs while the anime is airing.
Cornbread78
Member
I like that the anime adaptation was infinitely tamer compared to what I heard was in the source material, where Yuuji would basically get it on with every single female character in the cast, including his sister and even his mother...
Good thing the anime was just like some generic wish fullfillment harem fantasty with some comedy and not that much fanservice, but I still remember some stupid scene with Makina and Saki deciding to seductively suck on some red bean paste because they were hungry or something, which was all kinds of stupid.
Edit: Actually, it's sort of hilarious that the Grisaia anime could do away with all the H-content without the plot being affected in any way. I guess it speaks volumes about how irrelevant the content was in the original VNs, even if the resulting anime ended up being not noteworthy at all.
Cornbread78
Member
Nice, well, the mother thing wasn't his real mother, lol. He was a ladies man by trade and has an awesome harem. If you want hardcore, watch the OVAs, now those are, umm, interesting to say the least..
SliceSabre
Banned
I wish I could get a massage like that.
MC goes into a fantasy world and is the one chosen hero because of that sword he has. Right?
We now isekai inside gems. Great.
Too bad the world inside the gem is yet another generic RPG world rather than some trippy world where gems would actually be more relevant, but oh well...
Aaronrules380
Member
I like Snafu and think it's a good series, but it is absolutely otaku focused demographic wise. Not all otaku focused stuff is trash, just most of it
OniBarubary
Banned
No Game No Life was fucking excellent other than the really off-putting and uncomfortable fan-service. It most certainly isn't trash, it most certainly isn't fucking edgy and it MOST certainly doesn't deserved to get lumped in with stuff like OreImo or Sisterfucker 10 or whatever garbage people are trying to Guilt-By-Association it with.
Fuck outta here with this noise.
Fuck outta here with this noise.
Cornbread78
Member
SliceSabre
Banned
Oh I've seen them because the fanservice was the only thing I was ever interested in out of that series.
I think we should all write our own LNs. I'm sure it can't be that hard.
I really should keep my hands to myself but I just can't resist giving people a tickle which unfortunately resulted in me tickling my childhood friend who turned out to be a magical girl and the president of the United States of America. Also my sister is hot and trapped in an MMO.
My (this is important, always write your LN in the first person) name is Uiri Nanmon and I have a very mundane life at the moment (you don't want your protagonist to come across as brilliant straight away, you want the reader to self insert comfortably) where nothing really exciting happens, but sometimes I do get into a pickle, which has resulted in me being a bit lonely. (extra bonus, this means you don't have to think of and balance too many characters) You see I get this terrible urge to tickle people whenever I meet them. For example the other day at the bus stop this old lady sat down next to me while I was waiting for a bus at the bus stop and I just had to give her a tickle because my urge to give people a tickle just overcame me. Now they call me a Difficult Problem and I'm shunned by my peers. Woe is me, life surely can't get any worse. (here the reader will think 'ah ha, yes it will' and feel really proud and clever for thinking that encouraging them to read on)
So I guess it's another day of boring school. (school is a great setting since everyone knows what one is like so it requires no world building!). The walk there is completely nondescript with nothing of interest further cementing what a boring life I have. "Uiri!" Oh, it's my childhood friend, Zetsubou Yuujin calling for me, she's always bothersome. "What do you want?" I asked her. "Why are you so down in the dumps misery guts eh?" "Cos I had to spend a night in the cells for tickling an old lady of course." (LNs have this happen of continuous speech between character with no really indication who is saying what) 'Yeah but that's all behind you now eh. Now you have a fresh new day of school to look forward to eh." "School is boring and waste of my time and intelligence" I boldly claimed. (easy self insert characterisation there) She didn't like that answer. "Uiri you doofus eh! Maybe if you weren't so big headed you wouldn't get into all this mess" She was really digging into me, why won't she stop? "Doofus doofus doofus eh!" she continued. Uh, will she just stop! I can't help it, I need her to stop but how? My mind was set on this one task and before I knew it my hands had seized control of themselves and were reaching out for her. "You better not Uiri, I'm warning you... eh" But it's too late, I had lost control and before I knew it I was tickling my childhood friend! "UIRI NOOOOO... eh" but then there was suddenly silence and I found myself having to squint because of a bright life.
End of chapter one (and the inevitable first episode of the anime adaption. Remember to keep those cliff hangers coming)
See easy. I made that up with no planning whatsoever in about five minutes. If I was bored enough and had an hour to spare I'm sure I could churn out the rest of this drivel.
I really should keep my hands to myself but I just can't resist giving people a tickle which unfortunately resulted in me tickling my childhood friend who turned out to be a magical girl and the president of the United States of America. Also my sister is hot and trapped in an MMO.
My (this is important, always write your LN in the first person) name is Uiri Nanmon and I have a very mundane life at the moment (you don't want your protagonist to come across as brilliant straight away, you want the reader to self insert comfortably) where nothing really exciting happens, but sometimes I do get into a pickle, which has resulted in me being a bit lonely. (extra bonus, this means you don't have to think of and balance too many characters) You see I get this terrible urge to tickle people whenever I meet them. For example the other day at the bus stop this old lady sat down next to me while I was waiting for a bus at the bus stop and I just had to give her a tickle because my urge to give people a tickle just overcame me. Now they call me a Difficult Problem and I'm shunned by my peers. Woe is me, life surely can't get any worse. (here the reader will think 'ah ha, yes it will' and feel really proud and clever for thinking that encouraging them to read on)
So I guess it's another day of boring school. (school is a great setting since everyone knows what one is like so it requires no world building!). The walk there is completely nondescript with nothing of interest further cementing what a boring life I have. "Uiri!" Oh, it's my childhood friend, Zetsubou Yuujin calling for me, she's always bothersome. "What do you want?" I asked her. "Why are you so down in the dumps misery guts eh?" "Cos I had to spend a night in the cells for tickling an old lady of course." (LNs have this happen of continuous speech between character with no really indication who is saying what) 'Yeah but that's all behind you now eh. Now you have a fresh new day of school to look forward to eh." "School is boring and waste of my time and intelligence" I boldly claimed. (easy self insert characterisation there) She didn't like that answer. "Uiri you doofus eh! Maybe if you weren't so big headed you wouldn't get into all this mess" She was really digging into me, why won't she stop? "Doofus doofus doofus eh!" she continued. Uh, will she just stop! I can't help it, I need her to stop but how? My mind was set on this one task and before I knew it my hands had seized control of themselves and were reaching out for her. "You better not Uiri, I'm warning you... eh" But it's too late, I had lost control and before I knew it I was tickling my childhood friend! "UIRI NOOOOO... eh" but then there was suddenly silence and I found myself having to squint because of a bright life.
End of chapter one (and the inevitable first episode of the anime adaption. Remember to keep those cliff hangers coming)
See easy. I made that up with no planning whatsoever in about five minutes. If I was bored enough and had an hour to spare I'm sure I could churn out the rest of this drivel.
Dedication Through Light
Member
I dont understands peoples hypersensitivity to fanservice. it wasnt that excessive in NGNL.
Aaronrules380
Member
NGNL is definitely better than a lot of other LN series, but it also suffers a lot from otaku pandering, and even though the relationship between sora and shirt is absolutely not incestuous or sexual, I can see why people might assume it is at a glance
Dedication Through Light
Member
Great character design animated and good voices. Hopefully it remains wholly excited in its 24 episode run.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
NGNL is a crass and ugly series but edgy is the last word I would attribute to it. Word has officially lost all meaning.
The setting's quite novel(everything has to be solved through strange games because the reigning god is the god of games!), the world itself is surreal and appealing... but that's as far as things go for me.
Sora and Shiro are your typical unbeatable protagonists, so all games basically boil down not to whether they'll win, but how long they'll take to do so; then there's the harem aspect, which has Blank interact with women only (except for that beastman elder), and they slowly but surely add them to Sora's harem, complete with a communal bubble bath scene, but thankfully Sora is kept out of the baths and doesn't Rito his way in either.
It isn't edgy at all and the colors and environments are goregous, but the characters themselves are really boring and pander to generic harem tropes and the games, while creative and interesting, basically rely on rulesets that the audience can't undestand so Blank can pull off some crazy barely-legal move to pull off a win at the last second.
Of all the games, I liked the materialization shiritori one the most (except for that random fanservice moment), and the episode where the ED changed to represent Sora being erased from existence as part of a game was also quite interesting (too bad the game's conclussion wasn't nearly as good in the end, though).
CheapJuice
Member
SliceSabre
Banned
I didn't like NGNL because it is another example of the 'Perfect MC' trope I that I hate.
Aaronrules380
Member
While I think blank was in general too good, a show with an unbeatable protagonist can still be entertaining depending on the degree of struggle, as well as whether other members of the cast who are not unbeatable get focus and their own matches. I'm a fan of Yugioh, and Yugi was pretty much unbeatable, as was Yusei in 5ds (where he lost a total of one match on screen, which technically didn't even finish, though that was more to avoid the stakes of that match). Though arc-v has recently become my favorite yugioh series, and Yuuya is definitely not unbeatable
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Blank is 1000x more bearable at being an overpowered MC then Onii-sama in Mahouka. At least Blank had a flaw once and everyone isn't tripping over themselves to fellate Blank for being the best human being on earth
I think this might be because Japanese often makes it way easier to characterize people through their speech patterns.
For example, in Kokoro Connect:
- Taiichi Yaegashi always calls himself "ore" and uses impolite speech patterns
- Himeko Inaba goes for katakana atashi (アタシ and tomboyish, impolite speech (lots of "da" and "zo" terminations)
- Yui Kiriyama uses cutesy speech patterns and hiragana atashi (あたし
- Aoki Yoshifumi uses "boku", is more polite than Taiichi and slurs nicknames with っ
- Chihiro and Shino Enjouji I don't know because they're the new characters, but I think Chihiro speaks like Aoki only a bit more formal at the very least
Of course things get harder to follow when random classmates chip into the conversation, but the books tend to specify who's speaking what in between lines in most of those cases.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Wasn't the guy from NGNL not a genius nor perfect but just very good at manipulating and the sister was the genius?
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