MGS5 - "Snake won't really speak much at all. More of a silent protagonist."

I wonder if the game is like fifty hours and he has like four lines.

How many lines has he uttered to date?

"Kaz, I'm already a demon"

"Sorrow to the heartless sea"

"Chico, it's me"

"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

"Kept you waiting, huh?"

"We'll kill her, but now is not the time."

"It's a dog." Or something to that effect.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
I wonder if the game is like fifty hours and he has like four lines.

How many lines has he uttered to date?

"Kaz, I'm already a demon"

"Sorrow to the heartless sea"

"Chico, it's me"

"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

"Kept you waiting, huh?"

"We'll kill her, but now is not the time."

"It's a dog." Or something to that effect.
Click to expand...

all of big bosses dialogue has already been shown in the trailer.
 
This was basically metal gear solid 3. He spoke, sometimes even had monologues, but in the majority of cut scenes he just listened to the other characters talk. So nothing new here, really.
 
Don't like that. Should of just kept hayter. To be honest I've never understood the change.

Can someone explain it or offer a theory?
 
Upinsmoke said:
Don't like that. Should of just kept hayter. To be honest I've never understood the change.

Can someone explain it or offer a theory?
Click to expand...

Kojima wanted to use a different actor to portray Snake in a darker story and as an older protagonist, I assume.

Though some people say No Hayter is a smoke screen, since Solid Snake will appear at the end and you need to differentiate the two characters.
 
Upinsmoke said:
Don't like that. Should of just kept hayter. To be honest I've never understood the change.

Can someone explain it or offer a theory?
Click to expand...

The theory I tend to go with is that Kojima really wants to be a Hollywood director, and he saw this as his chance to pretend to be one by having a big name Hollywood star be in his game. He's basically shown that he doesn't really care about consistency or story between games (at least, not in the way most fans seem to) so switching out the VA probably wasn't a big deal to him. Some people also think that this is all just a ploy, since Hayter must be coming back as Solid Snake and they just wanted to give BB and SS different voices to differentiate them. I call BS on that theory though, since the Japanese VA for Snake and BB is still the same.

I think he's also gone on record saying that since the focus of this game was in the English voices/acting, he wanted someone who could portray a lot of emotion in the mocap. I don't really buy it though, since none of the other cheesy VAs were replaced.
 
Edzi said:
The theory I tend to go with is that Kojima really wants to be a Hollywood director, and he saw this as his chance to pretend to be one by having a big name Hollywood star be in his game. He's basically shown that he doesn't really care about consistency or story between games (at least, not in the way most fans seem to) so switching out the VA probably wasn't a big deal to him.

I think he's also gone on record saying that since the focus of this game was in the English voices/acting, he wanted someone who could portray a lot of emotion in the mocap. I don't really buy it though, since none of the other cheesy VAs were replaced.
Click to expand...

I think it's more that Kojima always wanted a hollywood actor to play Snake, not necessarily that Kojima wants to be a director in the movie industry.

Would love to see a movie tho where a hand can take over the body using nanotech tho - and robots with human legs.
 
It's better than repeating what the other character said everytime.


I remember hearing Kojima saying that this time, they'll use more the body language and facial reactions. He explained by saying: "Normally, snake would say 'Kaz, are you okay?', but know Snake would just say 'Kaz?' and it's tone, and facial reaction would make the player understand the rest."

That I think is cool. I honestly didn't like Snake saying stupid things like "a survilleance camera???", but they were ok for their time. Games, games have changed.
 
Serpens007 said:
It's better than repeating what the other character said everytime.


I remember hearing Kojima saying that this time, they'll use more the body language and facial reactions. He explained by saying: "Normally, snake would say 'Kaz, are you okay?', but know Snake would just say 'Kaz?' and it's tone, and facial reaction would make the player understand the rest."

That I think is cool. I honestly didn't like Snake saying stupid things like "a survilleance camera???", but they were ok for their time. Games, games have changed.
Click to expand...

Blasphemy.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
I wonder if the game is like fifty hours and he has like four lines.

How many lines has he uttered to date?

"Kaz, I'm already a demon"

"Sorrow to the heartless sea"

"Chico, it's me"

"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

"Kept you waiting, huh?"

"We'll kill her, but now is not the time."

"It's a dog." Or something to that effect.
Click to expand...

"We'll make diamonds from their ashes, carry them with us into battle.

"We're diamond dogs."

"Pretty sure."

"It’s sixty miles from Santiago to the prison camp. Chico used to cross the mountains with the older Sandinistas like it was nothing. He’ll make that in three days. "

"She's rigged?! Damn it we were set up!"

"Hold her down, hold her down!"

As Medic

"There's no time for anesthetic I'll have to go in now."

"Boss..."

As Ishamel

"We've been watching over you for 9 years, who am I?... call me Ishmael."

Haven't we always requested Kojima edit shit better? Well that's exactly what he's doing, quit complaining people.
 
Edzi said:
The theory I tend to go with is that Kojima really wants to be a Hollywood director, and he saw this as his chance to pretend to be one by having a big name Hollywood star be in his game. He's basically shown that he doesn't really care about consistency or story between games (at least, not in the way most fans seem to) so switching out the VA probably wasn't a big deal to him. Some people also think that this is all just a ploy, since Hayter must be coming back as Solid Snake and they just wanted to give BB and SS different voices to differentiate them. I call BS on that theory though, since the Japanese VA for Snake and BB is still the same.

I think he's also gone on record saying that since the focus of this game was in the English voices/acting, he wanted someone who could portray a lot of emotion in the mocap. I don't really buy it though, since none of the other cheesy VAs were replaced.
Click to expand...

I support this theory. I'm very disappointed in Kojima if it's the case.
 
Edzi said:
The theory I tend to go with is that Kojima really wants to be a Hollywood director, and he saw this as his chance to pretend to be one by having a big name Hollywood star be in his game. He's basically shown that he doesn't really care about consistency or story between games (at least, not in the way most fans seem to) so switching out the VA probably wasn't a big deal to him. Some people also think that this is all just a ploy, since Hayter must be coming back as Solid Snake and they just wanted to give BB and SS different voices to differentiate them. I call BS on that theory though, since the Japanese VA for Snake and BB is still the same.

I think he's also gone on record saying that since the focus of this game was in the English voices/acting, he wanted someone who could portray a lot of emotion in the mocap. I don't really buy it though, since none of the other cheesy VAs were replaced.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much the same theory I've always had. Very disappointing.
 
Edzi said:
The theory I tend to go with is that Kojima really wants to be a Hollywood director, and he saw this as his chance to pretend to be one by having a big name Hollywood star be in his game. He's basically shown that he doesn't really care about consistency or story between games (at least, not in the way most fans seem to) so switching out the VA probably wasn't a big deal to him. Some people also think that this is all just a ploy, since Hayter must be coming back as Solid Snake and they just wanted to give BB and SS different voices to differentiate them. I call BS on that theory though, since the Japanese VA for Snake and BB is still the same.

I think he's also gone on record saying that since the focus of this game was in the English voices/acting, he wanted someone who could portray a lot of emotion in the mocap. I don't really buy it though, since none of the other cheesy VAs were replaced.
Click to expand...

That theory makes no sense, if he wanted to go hollywood he'd have replaced the whole cast, not just Hayter.

A great effort has been made to retain the entire voice cast sans Hayter. I mean they could've easily replaced Chico and most wouldn't have cared, but they went the extra mile and brought the voice actor back.

He has said repeatedly he wants to make Snake like Mad Max in Mad Max 2, a silent bad ass who says more with his actions and expressions than words. He hasn't really said much about the secondary characters, it's all about Snake being expressive. So until that's proved otherwise, I'm taking that as the reason for the change.
 
Probably realized Kiefer is an absolutely abysmal voice actor, but it was too late to bring back the legendary Hayter so he just cut the lines.
 
Betty said:
That theory makes no sense, if he wanted to go hollywood he'd have replaced the whole cast, not just Hayter.

A great effort has been made to retain the entire voice cast sans Hayter. I mean they could've easily replaced Chico and most wouldn't have cared, but they went the extra mile and brought the voice actor back.

He has said repeatedly he wants to make Snake like Mad Max in Mad Max 2, a silent bad ass who says more with his actions and expressions than words. He hasn't really said much about the secondary characters, it's all about Snake being expressive. So until that's proved otherwise, I'm taking that as the reason for the change.
Click to expand...

Yup. This is backed up by how many times he has mentioned his reverence for the Mad Max series both in interviews and on his Twitter account.
 
Betty said:
"We'll make diamonds from their ashes, carry them with us into battle.

"We're diamond dogs."

"Pretty sure."

"It’s sixty miles from Santiago to the prison camp. Chico used to cross the mountains with the older Sandinistas like it was nothing. He’ll make that in three days. "

"She's rigged?! Damn it we were set up!"

"Hold her down, hold her down!"

As Medic

"There's no time for anesthetic I'll have to go in now."

"Boss..."

As Ishamel

"We've been watching over you for 9 years, who am I?... call me Ishmael."

Haven't we always requested Kojima edit shit better? Well that's exactly what he's doing, quit complaining people.
Click to expand...

When he learns about Paz:

"She shurfiffe?"
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
I wonder if the game is like fifty hours and he has like four lines.

How many lines has he uttered to date?
Click to expand...
.
GZ tapes said:
BIG: You won't need to.
BIG: Least the weather's on my side.
BIG: What a load of bullshit.
BIG: Using the UN?
BIG: And we're not a country.
BIG: But despite all that...
BIG: What's Huey's take?
BIG: I see... But there's no way we can have the IAEA poking around here.
BIG: Send them an official letter of refusal. Say that we're a private organization, and we've done nothing to attract this suspicion.

BIG: Huey, can they do an inspection without going through the Board of Governors?
BIG: Has the media gotten wind of this?
BIG: Kaz, our hands are tied now. Start getting the place ready.
BIG: Don't get the wrong idea. You've set it up so that any more "changes of heart" will arouse suspicion, that's all.
BIG: Just do it.

BIG: About the inspection. What do we tell the men?
BIG: Good point. What about the Sandinistas? There's still quite a few of them left on the base.anda's on assignment in Cuba. They'd recognize her. She should stay put for now.
BIG: Even your Parisienne?
BIG: Wait, she left?
BIG: I'm surprised Huey let her go that easy.
BIG: That's the spirit, Huey.

BIG: She shurfived?
BIG: So what's the plan? Silence her before we're compromised?
BIG: Black site – nice. A slice of American pie on communist soil, and out of U.S. legal jurisdiction.
BIG: The UN's nuclear inspection...
BIG: We're an army without a nation.
BIG: She knows their true nature.
BIG: When do we do it?
BIG: Do the men know?
BIG: Works for me. What about Chico? He had a chance to stop Paz from hijacking ZEKE, and he blew it. He's carried that guilt ever since. {The} kid really did care about her.
BIG: Have Amanda call him out to Cuba. He shouldn't be here right now.

BIG: What's going on?
BIG: Kaz, wait. The boat Chico was on – did it stop anywhere before it got to Havana?
BIG: It's 60 miles from Santiago to the prison camp. Chico used to cross the mountains with the older Sandinistas like it was nothing. He'll make that in three days.
BIG: You know how reckless he can be. Chico thinks we've abandoned Paz. That's why he's doing this.

BIG: We have no choice.
BIG: When can we be ready?
BIG: Sounds like I'll have to miss the inspection.
BIG: No, I'll go.
BIG: Hold down the fort, Kaz.

BIG: Meaning it isn't American soil, so the U.S. Constitution doesn't apply there. That allows them to withhold its civil rights protections.
BIG: Who knows what they're doing to Chico and Paz.
BIG: Kaz.
BIG: Yeah.

BIG: I heard about Paz's tapes...
BIG: Whatever it was, her commitment was wavering – that much was clear.
BIG: No way to know for sure. And the ocean's not giving her back.
Click to expand...
 
Anyone else think all of this is utter bullshit?

Either Kojima will make a story excuse for that change (i.e. this isn't Big Boss but an entirely different clone/character) or he's losing it. Big Boss and Solid Snake were always characters with lots of personality and had a lot to say. MGS has never had Dragon Quest-like blank slate silent protagonist who the player was supposed to project themselves in. MGS was about having characters the player wanted to be like or be with, why start now?

I hope it's just Kojima being a troll and preparing a major plot twist because if it's anything other than that I'll be dissapointed.

And if it truly was because they didn't have the money to pay Sutherland enough to have lots of dialogue then that's even worse. This isn't even about losing Hayter anymore. Its about potentially betraying Big Boss' character (assuming it really is BB at all.

I'm of course giving this the benefit of the doubt, it could all be a twist, but so far I only keep hearing stuff that I don't like about this game. My levels of hype before MGS4 and MGS5 couldn't be more opposite.
 
PensivePen said:
It's disappointing that we're going to go without proper codecs yet again.

Oh well, at least they'll be in MGR2.
Click to expand...

Speaking of MGR, when I think back on it, I think MGR felt more like MGS (aside from the gameplay, obviously) than GZ did. Weird.
 
I sort of spoke out of turn earlier in the thread. By going through the older games I'm starting to realize what it is people love about the Codecs, and Hayter's voice really is a crucial part of the dna of the series. It's sort of like criticizing Eastwood's performance in the Man With No Name trilogy. It works for that character.

I absolutely loved GZ though, and the lack of dialogue never really struck me as odd as the entire thing was a change of pace.

What are the chances that Kojima pulls something close to MGS 2 in terms of withholding stuff back? Should we believe anything?
 
Edzi said:
The theory I tend to go with is that Kojima really wants to be a Hollywood director, and he saw this as his chance to pretend to be one by having a big name Hollywood star be in his game.
Click to expand...

0202.gif


It's a bit of a trite theory though, isn't it? You make him out to be some Boy-King perched on a throne who, for his own twisted amusement, delivers insane decrees to a bunch of snivelling sycophants as they scurry off into carefully hidden cubby holes around KojiPro HQ, enacting their master's childish Will. You know, rather than a hugely successful, well respected, experienced and innovative Game Director.

In before: "He is, isn't he?" or some other similarly low-hanging fruit.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
For what it's worth, I like Kiefer's delivery a lot more than Hayter's.

Big Boss sounds so baller nowadays.
Click to expand...

There's a lot of great inflections in so little dialogue.

Like his "pretty sure" response as to Paz's whereabouts is awesome, as is his "Boss..." when he plays the MFC Medic handing over the bomb.

Not to mention that "when the time comes, I'll pull the trigger" gave me chills.

Kiefer's gonna nail it.
 
Betty said:
There's a lot of great inflections in so little dialogue.

Like his "pretty sure" response as to Paz's whereabouts is awesome, as is his "Boss..." when he plays the MFC Medic handing over the bomb.

Not to mention that "when the time comes, I'll pull the trigger" gave me chills.

Kiefer's gonna nail it.
Click to expand...

Oh for sure. Plus, in that one BTS video, they had the dots on his face to track all his little facial movements and tics.

Kiefer's gonna kill it.
 
If this is were an indication that ALL characters would be doing less talking I would be fucking excited, from what little there was to play of Ground Zeroes the mechanics were a pretty good foundation point for an open world game to build off of, less useless bullshit more getting down to business!

However if this just means more incessant chatter over coms as per what's his face in Ground Zeroes then fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. Give me a mute button.
 
Crossing Eden said:
Kiefer Sutherland is not a terrible actor by any stretch of the word.
Click to expand...

You're right, and I apologize. He isn't terrible. But, he strains to be barely mediocre. People like Jack Bauer, and thus like him, but I do struggle to think of anything he's been in where he's been a fine actor. He was laughable in Dark City (to which even the people who love that film acknowledge his silly campiness in it). I don't like The Lost Boys at all, so he does nothing in that for me. The Lars Von Trier movie he was in was him sleeping walking throughout. Freeway? Eh, that's fine for what it is. Phone Booth? Do you see him in that at all, or is it just him overacting via VO? I have little to no memory of that movie.

He is just an example of people liking him in just one role, to which he is just ok in it, and conflating his stature as a result. He might be an ok actor (which I would still argue against) but even so, he isn't a voice actor, and that's what he was hired to do.

To make a real stupid analogy, Norman Rockwell might be a fine painter, but I'm not going to hire him to put up the drywall or popcorn ceiling in my house since he's not an expert in that.
 
brianmcdoogle said:
You're right, and I apologize. He isn't terrible. But, he strains to be barely mediocre. People like Jack Bauer, and thus like him, but I do struggle to think of anything he's been in where he's been a fine actor. He was laughable in Dark City (to which even the people who love that film acknowledge his silly campiness in it). I don't like The Lost Boys at all, so he does nothing in that for me. The Lars Von Trier movie he was in was him sleeping walking throughout. Freeway? Eh, that's fine for what it is. Phone Booth? Do you see him in that at all, or is it just him overacting via VO? I have little to no memory of that movie.

He is just an example of people liking him in just one role, to which he is just ok in it, and conflating his stature as a result. He might be an ok actor (which I would still argue against) but even so, he isn't a voice actor, and that's what he was hired to do.

To make a real stupid analogy, Norman Rockwell might be a fine painter, but I'm not going to hire him to put up the drywall or popcorn ceiling in my house since he's not an expert in that.
Click to expand...

Sutherland may have limited range, but from what I've seen of the footage released so far, he at least seems a perfect fit for Big Boss. The character plays to his strengths, or maybe the character is suited to his type of acting.
 
Moon_frogger said:
This was basically metal gear solid 3. He spoke, sometimes even had monologues, but in the majority of cut scenes he just listened to the other characters talk. So nothing new here, really.
Click to expand...

except for the hundreds of lines of dialogue in the codec calls. which we dont even have that in phantom pain. i feel like in some bid to be taken seriously with celebrity involvement, kojima has effectively sacrificed one of his most loved characters.
 
MickeyKnox said:
If this is were an indication that ALL characters would be doing less talking I would be fucking excited, from what little there was to play of Ground Zeroes the mechanics were a pretty good foundation point for an open world game to build off of, less useless bullshit more getting down to business!

However if this just means more incessant chatter over coms as per what's his face in Ground Zeroes then fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. Give me a mute button.
Click to expand...

I feel the same way. Dialog in the series has always been unbearably terrible. Just so much pointless dialog and shit that could have been said in much fewer words. Also someone tell Kojima about the word stealth. "Sneaking mission" and "sneaking suit" just sounds so weird.
 
Juicy Bob said:
I feel that it doesn't matter if Big Boss doesn't talk much in TPP, so long as when he does, he has a strong impact.
Click to expand...

Definitely. You can already see this in the trailer when everyone turns to Big Boss to hear what he has to say about Quiet.

Also, its Big fucking Boss during his toughest times that hardens him to what he becomes in the series. I can't imagine there is a lot of banter in there.
 
Pimpbaa said:
I feel the same way. Dialog in the series has always been unbearably terrible. Just so much pointless dialog and shit that could have been said in much fewer words. Also someone tell Kojima about the word stealth. "Sneaking mission" and "sneaking suit" just sounds so weird.
Click to expand...

I wonder if it's a matter of translation, because Major Zero does say "stealth mission" in MGS3.
 
I can fix this! 5 minutes in snake gets injected with nano machines. And he's like ooh no these nano machines are chaannginnnnng my vooooiiice~. Then you hear Hayter, and he's like my voice sounds weird.
Your welcome Kojima.
 
If they're doing decent, naturalistic dialogue in MGS5, all the better for it.

Dialogue wasn't Kojima's strong suit, or at least, the bloody translators didn't do a great job.
 
Moon_frogger said:
This was basically metal gear solid 3. He spoke, sometimes even had monologues, but in the majority of cut scenes he just listened to the other characters talk. So nothing new here, really.
Click to expand...

The fact that they're even pointing it out kind of implies that yes, it is something new and on a different level than what you think you remember about MGS3.

FantasticMrFoxdie said:
Definitely. You can already see this in the trailer when everyone turns to Big Boss to hear what he has to say about Quiet.

Also, its Big fucking Boss during his toughest times that hardens him to what he becomes in the series. I can't imagine there is a lot of banter in there.
Click to expand...

All those hard times sure didn't shut his ass up at the end of
MGS4
.
 
I don't come to MGS for open world jank, you can get that in 20 different places this year. Most of what I've seen of this game looks cool though and I enjoyed Ground Zeroes although I'm disappointed Snake's silence there wasn't just because they didn't want to pay Kiefer much for the demo.
 
Hayter is purportedly more expensive than Sutherland.

Less lines of stupid dialogue is fine with me.

A surveillance camera?!
 
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