hikarutilmitt
Member
Presumably on 2.0.0 aka The Taken King.
Destiny - Weapon Tuning 2.0
- Thread starter bombshell
- Start date
Presumably on 2.0.0 aka The Taken King.
When Taken King comes out this September.
What the fuck? They nerfed Ice Breaker? I would have been completely fine with this update if they had just left that one gun alone.
Ice Breaker was causing a big problem. People were enjoying it, so it had to be changed. I mean, who doesn't want to wait a minute to reload the gun?!
....
Sword Of Doom
Member
they buffed thorn when it absolutely didn't need a buff. People who didn't know how good it was were complaining about it being too weak but those who were using it in PVP knew exactly what it was.
And auto rifles. What did they do to auto rifles?
Moa
Member
Buffed.
Sorc3r3r
Member
The end point of rebalancing is to have all weapon as a viable choice.
The end point to have all weapon as a viable choice is to be able to play the game with whatever weapon you like.
The end point to be able to play with whatever weapon is that the rng drops are useless.
The end point of a useless rng system in a loot based game is that you are wasting your time.
Half joking boys, but i think Destiny needs more variety and uniqueness, more fuck yeah i finally dropped the beast than whatever it's not so important.
Then if the whole point it's to play with friends as casually as possible that's the right thing to do,
but for me, this approach like going in the opposite way to get me back on board.
The end point to have all weapon as a viable choice is to be able to play the game with whatever weapon you like.
The end point to be able to play with whatever weapon is that the rng drops are useless.
The end point of a useless rng system in a loot based game is that you are wasting your time.
Half joking boys, but i think Destiny needs more variety and uniqueness, more fuck yeah i finally dropped the beast than whatever it's not so important.
Then if the whole point it's to play with friends as casually as possible that's the right thing to do,
but for me, this approach like going in the opposite way to get me back on board.
I don't mind the Gjallarhorn nerf but the Ice Breaker nerf was totally uncalled for.
IB was my go to weapon 90% of the time because it was fun. 5 seconds was already on the border of being too long to wait for a shot. 8 makes it basically unusable.
Since year 1 weapons will not be upgradeable they will be replaced with new weapons anyways...
This really makes reconsider if I actually want to come back to Destiny for TTK.
IB was my go to weapon 90% of the time because it was fun. 5 seconds was already on the border of being too long to wait for a shot. 8 makes it basically unusable.
Since year 1 weapons will not be upgradeable they will be replaced with new weapons anyways...
This really makes reconsider if I actually want to come back to Destiny for TTK.
LastGamer84
Member
Except if proper tuning were the issue, the nerf would have come sooner. It's not a coincidence that Bungie implemented this after House of Wolves released. Old content like the raids are already trivialized due to our higher light lvls and greater damage. This has more to do with PoE than the previous content.
I seriously doubt ghorn will be nerfed to the point of not being the obvious choice.
Also these buffs and nerfs are hitting with an expansion full of new weapons.
They buffed the nechrochasm and hard light. Old non new DLC weapons. Your post is ridiculous.
I'm not mad, they haven proven time and time again, that they will do anything to get your money.
This is just the latest episode in this trainwreck.
The new DLC will contain awesome new weapons but of course unless you pay you're stuck with the nerfed shit weapons.
Black Hammer nerf especially shows Bungies ugly face.
It was never about the weapon, they just wanted to kill year 1 content to force us into the new DLC.
Given that the Black Hammer only drops in the Crota Raid, they made sure people won't play it again.
This is just the latest episode in this trainwreck.
The new DLC will contain awesome new weapons but of course unless you pay you're stuck with the nerfed shit weapons.
Black Hammer nerf especially shows Bungies ugly face.
It was never about the weapon, they just wanted to kill year 1 content to force us into the new DLC.
Given that the Black Hammer only drops in the Crota Raid, they made sure people won't play it again.
First off, as someone who loves the Hardlight.
Now then, as for the rest of the questionable patches, I believe I want to summarize it all in song:
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little worried
That the wolfpack round wont finish the job
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little bit tired
of waiting for all my shots to recharge
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little bit nervous
That I wont be the go to sniper for a boss
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little bit terrified
that I wont get used in PVP or PVE
Nerf me down bright guys, every now and then I get put in the vault
Nerf me down bright guys, every now and then I get put in the vault
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little bit restless and I dream of the gun I used to be
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little bit helpless and I'm lying like a child in your inventory
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little bit angry and I know I've got to get out and cry
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little bit terrified But then I see the look in your ghosts eye
Nerf me down bright guys, every now and then I get put in the vault
Nerf me down bright guys, every now and then I get put in the vault
And I need you now tonight
And I need you more than ever
And if you only use me right
We'll be holding on forever
And we'll only be completing nightfall strikes
Cause we'll never be wrong together
We can take it to the end of PoE
Your love is like a shadow that covers me
I don't know what to do and I'm always getting patched
Bungie sees me as a problem thats giving fun a punch in the snatch
I really need you tonight
Forever's gonna start tonight
Forever's gonna start tonight
Once upon a time I was an incredible gun
But now those days seem to be done
There's nothing I can do
A total eclipse of the fun
Once upon a time I was the light of a guardians life
But now there's only a place in the vault
Nothing I can say
A total eclipse of the fun
And I need you now tonight
And I need you more than ever
And if you only use me right
We'll be holding on forever
And we'll only be completing nightfall strikes
Cause we'll never be wrong together
We can take it to the end of PoE
Your love is like a shadow that covers me
I don't know what to do and I'm always getting patched
Bungie sees me as a problem thats giving fun a punch in the snatch
I really need you tonight
Forever's gonna start tonight
Forever's gonna start tonight
Once upon a time I was an incredible gun
But now those days seem to be done
There's nothing I can do
A total eclipse of the fun
Once upon a time I was the light of a guardians life
But now there's only a place in the vault
Nothing I can say
A total eclipse of the fun
Now then, as for the rest of the questionable patches, I believe I want to summarize it all in song:
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little worried
That the wolfpack round wont finish the job
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little bit tired
of waiting for all my shots to recharge
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little bit nervous
That I wont be the go to sniper for a boss
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little bit terrified
that I wont get used in PVP or PVE
Nerf me down bright guys, every now and then I get put in the vault
Nerf me down bright guys, every now and then I get put in the vault
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little bit restless and I dream of the gun I used to be
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little bit helpless and I'm lying like a child in your inventory
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little bit angry and I know I've got to get out and cry
Nerf me down, every now and then I get a little bit terrified But then I see the look in your ghosts eye
Nerf me down bright guys, every now and then I get put in the vault
Nerf me down bright guys, every now and then I get put in the vault
And I need you now tonight
And I need you more than ever
And if you only use me right
We'll be holding on forever
And we'll only be completing nightfall strikes
Cause we'll never be wrong together
We can take it to the end of PoE
Your love is like a shadow that covers me
I don't know what to do and I'm always getting patched
Bungie sees me as a problem thats giving fun a punch in the snatch
I really need you tonight
Forever's gonna start tonight
Forever's gonna start tonight
Once upon a time I was an incredible gun
But now those days seem to be done
There's nothing I can do
A total eclipse of the fun
Once upon a time I was the light of a guardians life
But now there's only a place in the vault
Nothing I can say
A total eclipse of the fun
And I need you now tonight
And I need you more than ever
And if you only use me right
We'll be holding on forever
And we'll only be completing nightfall strikes
Cause we'll never be wrong together
We can take it to the end of PoE
Your love is like a shadow that covers me
I don't know what to do and I'm always getting patched
Bungie sees me as a problem thats giving fun a punch in the snatch
I really need you tonight
Forever's gonna start tonight
Forever's gonna start tonight
Once upon a time I was an incredible gun
But now those days seem to be done
There's nothing I can do
A total eclipse of the fun
Once upon a time I was the light of a guardians life
But now there's only a place in the vault
Nothing I can say
A total eclipse of the fun
Orochinagis
Member
The new DLC better have more than 3 exotic weapons (HOTW only features three exotic weapons) and new PVP weapons which will be reforged to have the same perks to fill this nerf
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
Loving this. Perhaps the greatest weapon balance update Bungie has ever made.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
That's the other issue I have, they only implement these weapon retuning/balance changes after the new shit hits. Why couldn't they patch the weapon retuning right now and then see how it affects the game? And then when TTK comes out they can go 'Hm ok, this is what worked, this is what didn't.'
geordiemp
Member
Nah...some of these posts are now getting ridiculous hyperbole. I am sure you enjoy shitposting in Destiny threads,,,,but this is just crap beyond most crap.
Black hammer is fine with being joint highest damage sniper in the game and extra hive damage, and being Solar which is great for hive and is the hardest hitting hive sniper.....
It was only broken for enemies such as fallen walkers where you could snipe indefinitely.
It will still be the best solar sniper against hive.
Stop being silly.
Orochinagis
Member
Exactly, put the weapons update now, do balances and fixes in the get go before the next DLC launchs.
Its not like they cant hotfix or add more patches on the PS4
blue_phazon
Member
what on earth is this Lmao.
They're rebalancing weapon classes as well you know, not just individual exotic weapons.
Besides, black hammer was sort of broken because of infinite ammo, and they increased the mag size to compensate for the nerf. And ballerhorn is only getting a reduction in the Wolf pack rounds (it'll still be more powerful than other rocket launchers).
There's a rhetoric going on here that the nerfed weapons are going to be completely useless now. But these weapons are still going to be the top weapons with these nerfs. They're just not going to be stupidly overpowered.
geordiemp
Member
Agree its bad that weapon balancing is taking 2 months - that is ridiculous.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Lord Kefka
Banned
It makes no sense to me why there is no Matchmaking for Raids. The fact they openly support the LFG sites contradicts the entire stance. LFG is just a giant annoying middle man you have to use. Heres how you fix it Bungie make it a requirement to be a certain level before you can enter matchmaking for raids so its not a bunch of under leveled players. If you make it to the max level you can make before you need to start getting Raid gear is when the Raid matchmaking should let you in. Or make it non matchmaking for a month when a raid comes out and then allow matchmaking.
Wow, reading the whole list of changes makes me not even want to play. They've literally nerfed like every fun weapon ability.
Black hammer
Last Word
Final Round
Shot Package
Rangefinder
Thorn
Hawkmoon
Gjallahorn
LOL......
At least my VOC is buffed even more in PVE and no nerf in PVP.
This all sounds very unfun.
Black hammer
Last Word
Final Round
Shot Package
Rangefinder
Thorn
Hawkmoon
Gjallahorn
LOL......
At least my VOC is buffed even more in PVE and no nerf in PVP.
This all sounds very unfun.
In theory it makes sense to put all the new players and old players in the same field as experimenting with the weapons again instead of having new players coming into a game of thorns
The Taken King has more weapons and gear than Destiny did when it shipped. IIRC, it had ~20 exotics. They'll start discussing those next week.
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/News?aid=13154
The phrasing "new weapon foundries that you'll loot" is interesting.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I'm sad about the Black Hammer nerf, but we'll see how it turns out in the wild. Depending on the boss, I'm not sure if I could hit 18 crits in a row anyways.
Sorc3r3r
Member
Going to give Bungie the benefit of the doubt.
I want them to dare more with skills and perks, i want to get back, but they have to steer the game direction a little towards my desires
Whoops wrong quote, point stands.
Orochinagis
Member
I hope so, last DLC were pretty bad in the Exotic gears department. I still want exotic boots on my warlock
Sword Of Doom
Member
Both DLC's have had poor exotic weapons
sturgboski
Member
I like how some of the nerfs are to combat cheese in PVE. Yet, most of that was brought on due to Bungie's cheese in setting up the PVE content: bullet sponge bosses and max guardian level+1 enemies replacing any sort of compelling gameplay. If it wasnt for bosses being bullet sponges or and/or being setup as +1 level above what the player can hit in the game (which makes enemies hit much harder and you much less), would there be so much cheese on the player side?
Ah well, "If its fun, nerf/ruin it" continues at Bungie and its handling of Destiny.
Yeah, which is why no one uses them and everyone is still clinging to launch weapons. Hell, even rewards from PVE content in HoW are terrible compared to vanilla and even TDB. Cynic in me thinks that nerfing launch exotics and even the black hammer are to force people to want to use what will come in TTK. Sadly, looking at the track record in TDB and HoW, they too will most likely be garbage. Nechrocasm being the reward of a long quest in TDB, meant as a reward on par as the Mythoclast, was terrible and then Dragon's Breath and No Land Beyond...*sigh*
Ah well, "If its fun, nerf/ruin it" continues at Bungie and its handling of Destiny.
Yeah, which is why no one uses them and everyone is still clinging to launch weapons. Hell, even rewards from PVE content in HoW are terrible compared to vanilla and even TDB. Cynic in me thinks that nerfing launch exotics and even the black hammer are to force people to want to use what will come in TTK. Sadly, looking at the track record in TDB and HoW, they too will most likely be garbage. Nechrocasm being the reward of a long quest in TDB, meant as a reward on par as the Mythoclast, was terrible and then Dragon's Breath and No Land Beyond...*sigh*
I hate crap like this. The word "broken" gets thrown around too much. What, exactly, did it break? Was it required to beat any boss? Did it glitch the boss so that it died in one shot? Or did it merely speed up an otherwise tedious encounter that everyone could beat in their sleep...?
What's a better solution: Designing content so that the enemies aren't just standing there, making it easy to continuously land sniper shots without fear.
Or:
Nerf the core mechanics of the gun to remove a unique feature of the gun
That's my problem - how Bungie solves "problems". The places were you could consistently land critical sniper shots were few and far in between, and mostly in the older content. Why not just fix it going forward with the new content?
Yeah. I think we got one genuinely great exotic weapon from the two DLC's, which is Lord of Wolves; I put it up there near 4th Horseman on my top tier exotic list. It utterly demolishes in PoE. The Bow is interesting and versatile, but Dreg's Promise is simply bad. It's a pretty poor rate of success.
I'm very curious not just about the new exotics, but the new weapon classes; it's rumored that a new heavy weapon class is coming.
Yes, Players will always exploit things regardless. if the bosses wuoldnt have been bullett spoges that means they would had been easier to kill with these OP weapon, and player will still resort to them to finish up their run quicker.
Said this in the other thread, but will say it here too:
The Last Word got nerfed into oblivion. Unlike Thorn, which still retains it's status as a pretty strong weapon as long as people know how to aim. This should have been the other way around. As it stands, TLW will be the lowest tier exotic hand cannon.
The Icebreaker is completely useless now. Their reasoning for nerfing it doesn't even make sense because if you're using it in the way they're explaining, you're safe anyway. This just makes you have to sit around more, lowering your DPS and making you want to switch to a different weapon.
If they're nerfing what makes Gjallarhorn Gjallarhorn, why bother using it? It makes me nervous that they didn't list specifics. Why would I use this weapon over any other rocket launcher now?
Nerfing hand cannons across the board may have been needed, but they're making the weapon class pretty underpowered for no good reason. Same goes for PvE shotguns. That is not where shotguns needed adjustment.
Exotic weapons need to be special. They need to be more powerful than any of their legendary counterparts. That is what makes them exotic, and that is what makes them desirable. Without their (at times OP) quirks, there is no reason to use them over any legendary weapon. That's why you can only have one equipped at a time. It's like they seem set on changing that, removing the appeal of exotic weapons in order to make everything more balanced in PvP. If that's what they want, fine, but keep the exotics actually exotic in PvE at the very least.
I do not like how definitive all the updates sound. This should have been along the lines of "This is what we're thinking, but we'll be reading your thoughts and make adjustments." Otherwise they're nerfing PvE gunplay across the board, severely changing how many people will have to play the game in order to maintain good DPS, and killing the legend of one of the best guns in the game for the wrong reasons.
It makes me sad that this will probably be the trend moving forward. Nerf all the previous year's weapons into the ground to force people to buy the expansion(s) to get access to the newer gear. Those of us who weren't lucky enough to get the gear as drops until the very end are completely left in the dust every time. This method does not surprise me and honestly I should have seen it coming, but it's still really disappointing.
The Last Word got nerfed into oblivion. Unlike Thorn, which still retains it's status as a pretty strong weapon as long as people know how to aim. This should have been the other way around. As it stands, TLW will be the lowest tier exotic hand cannon.
The Icebreaker is completely useless now. Their reasoning for nerfing it doesn't even make sense because if you're using it in the way they're explaining, you're safe anyway. This just makes you have to sit around more, lowering your DPS and making you want to switch to a different weapon.
If they're nerfing what makes Gjallarhorn Gjallarhorn, why bother using it? It makes me nervous that they didn't list specifics. Why would I use this weapon over any other rocket launcher now?
Nerfing hand cannons across the board may have been needed, but they're making the weapon class pretty underpowered for no good reason. Same goes for PvE shotguns. That is not where shotguns needed adjustment.
Exotic weapons need to be special. They need to be more powerful than any of their legendary counterparts. That is what makes them exotic, and that is what makes them desirable. Without their (at times OP) quirks, there is no reason to use them over any legendary weapon. That's why you can only have one equipped at a time. It's like they seem set on changing that, removing the appeal of exotic weapons in order to make everything more balanced in PvP. If that's what they want, fine, but keep the exotics actually exotic in PvE at the very least.
I do not like how definitive all the updates sound. This should have been along the lines of "This is what we're thinking, but we'll be reading your thoughts and make adjustments." Otherwise they're nerfing PvE gunplay across the board, severely changing how many people will have to play the game in order to maintain good DPS, and killing the legend of one of the best guns in the game for the wrong reasons.
It makes me sad that this will probably be the trend moving forward. Nerf all the previous year's weapons into the ground to force people to buy the expansion(s) to get access to the newer gear. Those of us who weren't lucky enough to get the gear as drops until the very end are completely left in the dust every time. This method does not surprise me and honestly I should have seen it coming, but it's still really disappointing.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Warhammer style Meltagun plz
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
I feel like too many players don't understand the value of balanced gameplay. A game where no one or three exotic weapons dominate the entire sandbox.
Orochinagis
Member
The other problem was or still is to allow the player to upgrade old weapons to match the new weapons damage, making the new gear completely optional since the Expansion itselft didnt delivered enough good weapons to make the players forget their old gear and move on.
Moving to new gear should be fun and have that sense of discovering a new toy to play, not just kick your old toys and forces you to use new gear because you are having to much fun with the old content still.
The problem is the most oversued weapon wont get nerfed that bad and the other weapons of the same type will suffer
Sword Of Doom
Member
But they take an axe to everything instead of fine tuning individual weapons. And this balance argument is always used yet it seems like things get worse every time they do this. Look at auto rifles for example. Or shotguns
Because all their testing and balancing is on TTK. They are ignoring old content this is 100% about the new content in my opinion.
Diablohead
Member
So going by some tweets it sounds like Xur has a ghallahorn on sale today but bungie nuked it quickly to stop people buying it, why? no idea it's getting balanced soon anyway.
they have slightly more power and kick but the damage drops off quicker over distance.
they have slightly more power and kick but the damage drops off quicker over distance.
Funny how there is less collective outrage over this than there was over absolutely dumb irrelevant shit like Red Bull DLC codes and some stupid shaders in the Collector's Edition.
Everybody saw the Gjallarhorn nerf coming -- I don't think it's a surprise, and it was needed to balance out endgame boss encounters. I never got one so I guess it doesn't sting as much, but it basically kills any motivation I might have had to play the game between now and The Taken King. All I ever did was drop in for Nightfalls/Prison once a weapon for a shot at a Gjally.....now I don't really even see the point.
Icebreaker -- I don't know why people are massively overreacting to this nerf ("This weapon is useless now!"). It's an extra 3 seconds of regen.....from the way people were acting so angry and hurt I thought that they had removed the ammo regeneration effect completely. I wish they hadn't done it and didn't really see any problem with the weapon being abused in the first place though. Nor do I understand how a marginally longer regen time is going to prevent abuse.
Black Hammer -- I understand that this gun was a little too strong, but they went too far. Would it have been so hard to just put a cooldown on the Precision Mag Bonus? Let people regenerate ammo, but only every 10-15 seconds. Or how about adding regenerated ammo to the magazine instead of the chamber, so people still have to go through the reload animation?
Everybody saw the Gjallarhorn nerf coming -- I don't think it's a surprise, and it was needed to balance out endgame boss encounters. I never got one so I guess it doesn't sting as much, but it basically kills any motivation I might have had to play the game between now and The Taken King. All I ever did was drop in for Nightfalls/Prison once a weapon for a shot at a Gjally.....now I don't really even see the point.
Icebreaker -- I don't know why people are massively overreacting to this nerf ("This weapon is useless now!"). It's an extra 3 seconds of regen.....from the way people were acting so angry and hurt I thought that they had removed the ammo regeneration effect completely. I wish they hadn't done it and didn't really see any problem with the weapon being abused in the first place though. Nor do I understand how a marginally longer regen time is going to prevent abuse.
Black Hammer -- I understand that this gun was a little too strong, but they went too far. Would it have been so hard to just put a cooldown on the Precision Mag Bonus? Let people regenerate ammo, but only every 10-15 seconds. Or how about adding regenerated ammo to the magazine instead of the chamber, so people still have to go through the reload animation?
Sword Of Doom
Member
the 3 second regend time increase is pretty significant relative to the 5 seconds. It's a 60% increase per round
Ice breaker is a weapons most players new to the game have. I've played with a lot of players who don't have a black hammer or a gjallarhorn but they have an ice breaker. It's a great must have weapon for those players but this nerf really hurts them. I don't really understand why they're doing this. Only thing I can think of is that this is their way of fixing the heavy ammo glitch or people using ice breaker to regen special ammo
You're surprised that Bungie blatantly fucking over their best customers gets more negativity than a rebalancing? I'm not. And you're dead wrong about the IB nerf. It will have a huge impact on people that use it in PVE. Bungie's nerf of that was moronic. They targeted it at people who will continue to use it in the same manner anyway. All the nerf does is screw over people that use it as it was intended.
IB nerf is pretty big. Someone on reddit calculated that it's basically a 37.5% decrease in the weapon's DPS.
mugoldeneagle03
Member
The Destiny subreddit has a great post up about how weapons aren't the problem & the way encounters with bosses are and I completely agree. If everything wasn't so staged - Stand here, Shoot, Move here, Shoot - I'd be way more inclined to use different weapons in different situations.
Think of a raid boss that chases you through a level, or a vertical themed level where guardians are platforming up, using different weapons for different purposes. That's the kind of shit that would stop players from finding cheese spots & using the most powerful weapons. I mean honestly can you blame them?
But while I'm against some of the PvE nerfs I think most of the PvP ones were badly needed. I am (was) one of those Thorn 24/7 assholes and the funny things is I don't even really like the gun. Why would I not pick something that I can get 20+ kills every game with though? Especially when it comes to ToO.
I'm 50/50 on this, but I'm excited to see how much the PvP scene will shift.
Think of a raid boss that chases you through a level, or a vertical themed level where guardians are platforming up, using different weapons for different purposes. That's the kind of shit that would stop players from finding cheese spots & using the most powerful weapons. I mean honestly can you blame them?
But while I'm against some of the PvE nerfs I think most of the PvP ones were badly needed. I am (was) one of those Thorn 24/7 assholes and the funny things is I don't even really like the gun. Why would I not pick something that I can get 20+ kills every game with though? Especially when it comes to ToO.
I'm 50/50 on this, but I'm excited to see how much the PvP scene will shift.
Orochinagis
Member
Yeah and since you cant pick up special ammo with the icebreaker the nerf will destroy the weapon special ability at all making it a waste of exotic space
I just wish they would make some other weapons as viable as the Gjallarhorn so that people aren't getting kicked out of groups just because you don't have one. That kind of elitist exclusivity is bull and I'm glad Bungie is nerfing it. I don't have a Gjallarhorn so it doesn't affect me none.