I enjoyed Batman v Superman more than Civil War, who is with me?
- Thread starter TheDanger
- Start date
- Status
Speaking as someone who hasn't seen the movie yet, I want to say, in broad terms, why I expect to enjoy Civil War better based on it's marketing.
Heroes turned against each other is one of my favorite tropes. You make a story where the antagonist is someone who, in some way, is supposed to be the heroes friend, you got me hooked. There are good and bad ways to do it, but for me, it's an inherently intriguing process. There's drama to it, because it is inherently resistant against painting one or the other as simply wrong. Plus it's more relatable as well. Generally speaking, we don't have villains in our world that we personally know. But we fight with our friends all the time.
All the marketing of BvS, however, framed Batman and Superman as two guys who want nothing to do with each other. And indeed, that's what the film eventually gave us. In fact, by the end, you still can't say that they're friends so much as Batman realized he doesn't actually have a reason to kill Superman (sort of. The themes of BvS are kinda fucked and you could say that Batman just sort of forgot about the original reasons he wanted Superman dead. Point is, by the end, he doesn't feel that).
There is so little emotional gravity to Batman fighting Superman the way it's presented. They're both just being dicks that can't take 5 minutes to talk and work out their differences.
The marketing of Civil War, in contrast, emphasizes the tragedy of these two guys fighting. "I'm Sorry. He's my friend." "So was I." These two fighting each other is not 'awesome' in the same way that Captain America fighting the Red Skull in the first movie is, or Tony fighting whatshisface in Iron Man 3. These guys are friends, and them being set against each other is cool, but also sad.
One scene I know exists in the movie is Tony and Steve debating the merits of the Accords. That alone adds so much to their conflict, because it emphasizes how they are trying to communicate and connect with each other. They respect each other and listen to the others arguments, even if they don't agree with each other.
Batman v Superman would have been over in 10 minutes of they had been able to communciate in some way other than violence. I don't know what is the specific thing that drives Captain America and Iron Man to violence, but it's going to be more than muscle headed dickery and an inability to listen. I'm looking forward to seeing that more than I'll ever look forward to seeing Batman and Superman go at it in Snyder's movie.
Heroes turned against each other is one of my favorite tropes. You make a story where the antagonist is someone who, in some way, is supposed to be the heroes friend, you got me hooked. There are good and bad ways to do it, but for me, it's an inherently intriguing process. There's drama to it, because it is inherently resistant against painting one or the other as simply wrong. Plus it's more relatable as well. Generally speaking, we don't have villains in our world that we personally know. But we fight with our friends all the time.
All the marketing of BvS, however, framed Batman and Superman as two guys who want nothing to do with each other. And indeed, that's what the film eventually gave us. In fact, by the end, you still can't say that they're friends so much as Batman realized he doesn't actually have a reason to kill Superman (sort of. The themes of BvS are kinda fucked and you could say that Batman just sort of forgot about the original reasons he wanted Superman dead. Point is, by the end, he doesn't feel that).
There is so little emotional gravity to Batman fighting Superman the way it's presented. They're both just being dicks that can't take 5 minutes to talk and work out their differences.
The marketing of Civil War, in contrast, emphasizes the tragedy of these two guys fighting. "I'm Sorry. He's my friend." "So was I." These two fighting each other is not 'awesome' in the same way that Captain America fighting the Red Skull in the first movie is, or Tony fighting whatshisface in Iron Man 3. These guys are friends, and them being set against each other is cool, but also sad.
One scene I know exists in the movie is Tony and Steve debating the merits of the Accords. That alone adds so much to their conflict, because it emphasizes how they are trying to communicate and connect with each other. They respect each other and listen to the others arguments, even if they don't agree with each other.
Batman v Superman would have been over in 10 minutes of they had been able to communciate in some way other than violence. I don't know what is the specific thing that drives Captain America and Iron Man to violence, but it's going to be more than muscle headed dickery and an inability to listen. I'm looking forward to seeing that more than I'll ever look forward to seeing Batman and Superman go at it in Snyder's movie.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
The problem with adding Thor 2 to every poll is how can I not vote for Thor 2?
It's skewing the results of this scientific study.
It's skewing the results of this scientific study.
Jeffolation
Banned
As silly and dumb as that plot point is, Affleck almost sold it with his Batmonster yelling.
HassanJamal
Member
I'm with ya OP, enjoyed BvS a bit more than CW, for a couple of reasons.
That's one aspect I feel BvS beat CW, its soundtrack is stellar and pretty darn memorable. The haunting intro music, Superman's
scene, Wondy's pretty kickass music and a bunch more.
For the life of me, I cant recall one piece of music from CW that stood out. Which has me concerned for Uncharted 4.
That's one aspect I feel BvS beat CW, its soundtrack is stellar and pretty darn memorable. The haunting intro music, Superman's
sacrifice
For the life of me, I cant recall one piece of music from CW that stood out. Which has me concerned for Uncharted 4.
Or maybe...he just has a different opinion than you.
Thor 2 is the answer to every question asked since the dawn of time. The oldest cave drawings foretold it. The Mayans knew of its coming. In the 1700s, voyagers around the world told tales of its existence.
When asked for the answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything, the supercomputer Deep Thought communicated what its creators thought was the number "42", but in reality it was... Thor 2.
Four letters followed by 2. It all makes sense now. Godammit.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Cid Highwind
Banned
You and Zack Snyder.
Liamario
Banned
I'm glad I could help. You need to start watching these films in their original language though, if possible.
The Atticus
Member
Civil War is a piece of shit movie.
CaviarMeths
Member
I feel like I'm the only one who thinks that Wonder Woman's theme in BvS was hilariously bad and out of place. Parts of it are OK, but that guitar is bloody awful.
Voted for Thor. It is tradition. Honor it.
Voted for Thor. It is tradition. Honor it.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
They're in totally different leagues.
BvS is the superior movie. It's fun, colorful, deep and touching at times. Even the cast seems to care. Then there's Civil War, it's just so dark and humorless. Actors are trying so hard to be grey, monotone caricatures of these well known superheroes. It's totally lifeless movie.
Wait...
BvS is the superior movie. It's fun, colorful, deep and touching at times. Even the cast seems to care. Then there's Civil War, it's just so dark and humorless. Actors are trying so hard to be grey, monotone caricatures of these well known superheroes. It's totally lifeless movie.
Wait...
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
I know it's your opinion, but you are wrong.
Wtf? I do I said most people here don't (some of my friends do luckily), which sets their bar really low like you said. I stopped watching dubbed stuff at 15, one of the best choices I ever made.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
Fuck, man, I mean really? Am I the only person on earth who likes Thor 2? And that's even before my intense mancrush on Hemsworth rocking the hammer :/
BudokaiMR2
Member
Nah, I don't really get the hate for either of the Thor movies. They aren't in the same league as something like Winter Soldier or Civil War, but I thought they were fun movies with some great visual design.
I was confused at times, but the confusion was cleared up later, I like movies that don't throw everything in your face. I mean the movie threw all the action in my face, but it also made me think about what's going on exactly while the bigger picture was always clear and in the end I thought it was wrapped up nicely with really cool scenes overall and I liked the ending as well.
I'm sorry, but Zack Snyder cannot make a good movie that stands on human drama. He is more interested in making action sequences than making a character study, Civil War makes a good balance for that even though they're not deep, they're still better than the character in Batman V Superman.
if you say so it must be fact.
liliththepale
Banned
I can't believe how terrible Civil War was. Like I finally understand how some people feel about BvS. It finally makes sense.
Except for me it's with Captain America and his what the fuckery. Like seriously 3/4 of the movie is just Captain Asshole being an asshole who can't communicate and decides he'd rather kill half a dozen of his best friends who are heroes to save his ex-friend who is literally evil half the time and who
Like what the fuck. The snoozefest melodrama for the whole first hour is such a slog of nonsense that serves no purpose. It does nothing but show off a couple of cool stunts (like Bucky stealing the guy's motorcycle) that don't nearly make up for the abhorrent shaky cam generic action and blah blah blah government bore.
The movie is at least forty-five minutes longer than it needs to be. It takes far too long developing villains who are ultimately pointless and drama that can basically be summed up as Cap isn't good at communicating and would rather fight people than talk stuff out. He's the least heroic he's ever been, and then he gets half the cast to go along with it because whatever. I mean it literally makes no sense.
I get it. They just want to see super heroes fight super heroes. I want that too. It's part of why BvS is so good. The other part of what makes BvS work so well is this guy:
Civil War doesn't have shit in the way of charismatic villains. Fine, that's a general weakness of Marvel. So why not just get to the meat and potatoes? Why waste an hour and twenty minutes of the audience's time before doing anything interesting?
*disclaimer: it's possible (but not guaranteed) that I fell asleep for brief moments in the opening hour or so, before the movie remembered it was supposed to be fun.
Martin Freeman? Oh he's fun. Underutilized, but fun. Spiderman? Best version yet! Totally looking forward to the new Spidey movie. Ant Man shenanigans? Quite silly and entertaining.
But then it goes back to stupid drama that you were almost ready to forget about. They had to sandwich all the fun bits with moldy bread. Yuck.
Except for me it's with Captain America and his what the fuckery. Like seriously 3/4 of the movie is just Captain Asshole being an asshole who can't communicate and decides he'd rather kill half a dozen of his best friends who are heroes to save his ex-friend who is literally evil half the time and who
killed Tony's parents and oh by the way Cap knew the whole time. Asshole.
Like what the fuck. The snoozefest melodrama for the whole first hour is such a slog of nonsense that serves no purpose. It does nothing but show off a couple of cool stunts (like Bucky stealing the guy's motorcycle) that don't nearly make up for the abhorrent shaky cam generic action and blah blah blah government bore.
The movie is at least forty-five minutes longer than it needs to be. It takes far too long developing villains who are ultimately pointless and drama that can basically be summed up as Cap isn't good at communicating and would rather fight people than talk stuff out. He's the least heroic he's ever been, and then he gets half the cast to go along with it because whatever. I mean it literally makes no sense.
I get it. They just want to see super heroes fight super heroes. I want that too. It's part of why BvS is so good. The other part of what makes BvS work so well is this guy:
Civil War doesn't have shit in the way of charismatic villains. Fine, that's a general weakness of Marvel. So why not just get to the meat and potatoes? Why waste an hour and twenty minutes of the audience's time before doing anything interesting?
*disclaimer: it's possible (but not guaranteed) that I fell asleep for brief moments in the opening hour or so, before the movie remembered it was supposed to be fun.
Martin Freeman? Oh he's fun. Underutilized, but fun. Spiderman? Best version yet! Totally looking forward to the new Spidey movie. Ant Man shenanigans? Quite silly and entertaining.
But then it goes back to stupid drama that you were almost ready to forget about. They had to sandwich all the fun bits with moldy bread. Yuck.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
Dawn of the Dead is pretty good. I realize that it's the exception to the rule but credit where it's due.
I read the thread title wrong and voted for the wrong one.
I'm still a little surprised that someone could think BvS is better than Civil War but thanks for making this thread since I was hoping that there could be a dedicated, separate discussion thread comparing the two.
Edit: I can't tell if Civil War rants in here are parodies or if this has become a BvS support group to share frustrations while people praise Civil War for what it did right.
I'm still a little surprised that someone could think BvS is better than Civil War but thanks for making this thread since I was hoping that there could be a dedicated, separate discussion thread comparing the two.
Edit: I can't tell if Civil War rants in here are parodies or if this has become a BvS support group to share frustrations while people praise Civil War for what it did right.
L
Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
You are a brave man (or woman), OP.
raises hand, I enjoyed it more as well. Liked Civil War too though
As good as that was, it completely ignores the point of the original DotD, and just went apeshit "LOL ZOMBIEMOVIE!". I was a great ride, but it holds no candle to the social and cultural criticism the original was.
I've not seen it in a very long time, but I remember it being a dumbed down version of the original. He took out a lot of the human drama in favor of contemporary cliches and lots and lots of gore.
I can't believe how terrible Civil War was. Like I finally understand how some people feel about BvS. It finally makes sense.
Except for me it's with Captain America and his what the fuckery. Like seriously 3/4 of the movie is just Captain Asshole being an asshole who can't communicate and decides he'd rather kill half a dozen of his best friends who are heroes to save his ex-friend who is literally evil half the time and whokilled Tony's parents and oh by the way Cap knew the whole time. Asshole.
Like what the fuck. The snoozefest melodrama for the whole first hour is such a slog of nonsense that serves no purpose. It does nothing but show off a couple of cool stunts (like Bucky stealing the guy's motorcycle) that don't nearly make up for the abhorrent shaky cam generic action and blah blah blah government bore.
The movie is at least forty-five minutes longer than it needs to be. It takes far too long developing villains who are ultimately pointless and drama that can basically be summed up as Cap isn't good at communicating and would rather fight people than talk stuff out. He's the least heroic he's ever been, and then he gets half the cast to go along with it because whatever. I mean it literally makes no sense.
I get it. They just want to see super heroes fight super heroes. I want that too. It's part of why BvS is so good. The other part of what makes BvS work so well is this guy:
Civil War doesn't have shit in the way of charismatic villains. Fine, that's a general weakness of Marvel. So why not just get to the meat and potatoes? Why waste an hour and twenty minutes of the audience's time before doing anything interesting?
*disclaimer: it's possible (but not guaranteed) that I fell asleep for brief moments in the opening hour or so, before the movie remembered it was supposed to be fun.
Martin Freeman? Oh he's fun. Underutilized, but fun. Spiderman? Best version yet! Totally looking forward to the new Spidey movie. Ant Man shenanigans? Quite silly and entertaining.
But then it goes back to stupid drama that you were almost ready to forget about. They had to sandwich all the fun bits with moldy bread. Yuck.
Agreed. Wisdom isn't anything special like he was positioned to be in AoU, and his screw up was even more puzzling. And the end betrayed the whole film, "we cool". Why are unmodified humans keeping up with mutants/enhanced humans, i really don't understand Hawkeye and black widow. Why are they even considered?
It was a huge letdown.
It sounds like you don't care enough about motivation or plot as much as you do "fun" which you also don't have a clear definition of in your little rant. And then you say that part of what made BvS work was Jesse Eisenberg as Lex???
Yikes.
Cabbagehead
Member
You are high.
liliththepale
Banned
Au contraire. I care too much about motivation and plot to let Cap slide by with his bullshit. There's nothing he says that is in any way convincing that he's in the right, and it's against his character too. Cap intended to fight half a dozen of his best friends who are heroes to save one ex friend who is not a hero. That's fucked up.
Is Bucky on some level worth saving? Probably. But it's not like Stark or the government were trying to kill him. They could have easily gotten everything sorted out if Cap had just cooperated.
And everyone else who jumped on Cap's side literally had no motivation. They just slid into place because they were predestined to. Why would Hawkguy or Antman side with Cap over Stark? They have no more information than Stark and currently Cap was an enemy of the state.
It doesn't make sense.
Also Lex was a joy to watch and I'm sorry you weren't able to enjoy him.
Cabbagehead
Member
Are you literally comparing BVS to Civil War when it comes to logic. Wow
This is some twilight zone shit, but I know exactly what's going on though here carry on. Objective viewing.
Glass Rebel
Member
Uhm, yes, Sharon says as much that they have a shoot to kill order on Bucky. Did you sleep through the entire scene in Romania?
CaviarMeths
Member
It's just an ongoing joke. For some reason, despite being called forgettable on a daily basis, Thor 2 gets brought up constantly in every BvS thread. Based on what I've seen, it's almost impossible to praise BvS without criticizing Thor 2.
"I loved BvS. Much better than most of the MCU movies like that garbage Thor 2."
Etc.
Props to TheDanger for not invoking the another.gif, but alas, the Thor 2 option was added to the poll anyway. As it is written, so shall it be done.
SpideySenses
Member
I consider it a similar situation as 2012 with TDKR and Avengers, Rises was the more interesting movie with admittedly some big flaws that I got more out of, whilst Avengers is the better movie that I thoroughly enjoyed but didn't have the same lasting impact.
In both cases, I'd put rate them all well abover the vast, vast majority of superhero movies, a flawed Batman story will always be better to me than (and I hate to beat a dead horse) a competently made Thor movie.
In both cases, I'd put rate them all well abover the vast, vast majority of superhero movies, a flawed Batman story will always be better to me than (and I hate to beat a dead horse) a competently made Thor movie.
Corpsepyre
Banned
I'm with you, OP. All the way.
Did OP make this thread too soon? It's too soon!
Zack Snyder is the key. They were right about him! They were always right about him.
Fear him!
To the end of the line?
D.Lo
Member
Weirdly, I think I did too.
I came in hating the shit-piece that is Man of Steel. I hate this crappy creep of a Superman. And as expected, BvS is a hot mess. But it's packed full of stuff, and is an entertaining noisy stupid thing. And some bits, like Batman, are really good. Lots of bad stuff though, like Wonder Woman, Doomsday and the other DC crap being shoved in, and MOS's problems continued in that both Clark and Lois are totally shit characters performed very poorly by their actors.
Civil War though, it was 'just another' MCU thing. I'm bored of Scarlet and Chris Evans and other random suits being boring and soldier-like. I found it boring and at no point did I believe this conflict would have much consequence. Ant Man and Black Panther were highlights. Spidey was good but implausibly shoehorned in.
I came in hating the shit-piece that is Man of Steel. I hate this crappy creep of a Superman. And as expected, BvS is a hot mess. But it's packed full of stuff, and is an entertaining noisy stupid thing. And some bits, like Batman, are really good. Lots of bad stuff though, like Wonder Woman, Doomsday and the other DC crap being shoved in, and MOS's problems continued in that both Clark and Lois are totally shit characters performed very poorly by their actors.
Civil War though, it was 'just another' MCU thing. I'm bored of Scarlet and Chris Evans and other random suits being boring and soldier-like. I found it boring and at no point did I believe this conflict would have much consequence. Ant Man and Black Panther were highlights. Spidey was good but implausibly shoehorned in.
liliththepale
Banned
Look you're welcome to disagree but if you're going to call my logic bad at least use a real argument please. This condescending bullshit doesn't do anyone any good.
It's not unlikely.
Was that before or after they had Bucky imprisoned and were trying to interrogate him? Because I got the impression they just wanted to ask questions at first before he broke out and was too dangerous to hold. That's what I'm talking about, so it doesn't change anything.
- Status