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2011 NBA Mar |OT| Now listening to the Stan Van Gundy mixtape
- Thread starter reilo
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ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
reilo said:
What Small Forwards were better in the last decade than KG?
Black Mamba
Member
reilo said:
whoa whoa, I never argued top 10. I said easily top 30 and an argument COULD BE MADE for top 20. I never argued top 10.
But in fairness to KG, he never had a 2nd player as good as LBJ or Kobe had in their struggle years. I'll take Odom (and Phil J) or Mo and Varajeo over Wally and Flip.
Black Mamba
Member
benita said:
No. Just fucking no. I didn't bold Malone, even though KG > Malone, but at leas it could be argued. The guys in bold are most certainly NOT as good as KG.
Walton is tough. He's certainly had a worse career, but you could argue he peak as better. If we count consistency as important, then KG > him too.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Darkman M said:
KG's is almost as much of a SF as Duncan is a PF.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
More like "thank god we have a 30 second clip on youtube" to put it to bed. If people watched that series, rather than based their opinions off a 240p youtube clip showing Hakeem at his best, they would've seen that Robinson, while outclassed, did not play poorly. Now, Ewing and Hakeem? You can watch all the youtube clips you want or you can watch the games themselves. It doesn't matter what you do because you will arrive at the same conclusion: Ewing totally choked. He was abysmal. Ewing is not close to Hakeem. Robinson is.marathonfool said:
marathonfool
Member
Black Mamba is getting away with saying KG > Malone repeatedly. All kinds of dumb stuff in this thread. For the record, I'd take Dirk > KG as well.dIEHARD said:
It makes you look like a fool to assume things. I watched the entire series between the Spurs and Rockets. Hakeem not only made Robinson look silly, but he was the entire Rockets offense. The talk of the NBA was how Hakeem demonstrated his vastly superior game and his impact on the team.OpinionatedCyborg said:
Black Mamba
Member
reilo said:
So Jamal Magloire should be looked at as an all-star?
I only responded to argue against your all-star claims, not everything.
KG was not playing with all-star Billups and he was just in the league when Gugliotta was an all-star and kG wasn't an alpha yet. To use those dudes as examples is disingenuous.
reilo said:
Pretty much. It's hard for me to swallow that Dirk is better than KG. Dirk may be better on the offensive end (maybe... KG was a fantastic passer and better inside), but KG is leagues, LEAGUES, better on the defensive end of the court.
Leagues.
benita said:
Soild list, but there are two or three guys on there that you could swap out for KG and the list would be just as solid (namely Dirk, Nash and Iverson).
I mean, at what point does being an excellent overall player like KG, become more impressive than being amazing at a certain few things, or vice versa...?
Example:
Dirk's pure shooting
Nash's combination of assists and ability to score
Iverson's potent scoring
vs
KG's overall game
What is more impressive? Why? I'd personally have them listed on similar levels as far as player standings go, but they're so different.
This is why you can never have a concrete list.
Edit: Didn't realize 'Allen' meant Ray Allen. No, I wouldn't put him in the top 30.
Black Mamba
Member
benita said:
I agree he's not top 10 or close to it (he's around 20 probably).
But how is Iverson or Nash better than KG? the fuck is this.
Nash has never played a lick of defense in his life or even made an NBA Finals despite playing with stacked teams.
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
I actually went back and changed "is" to "was", since I figured we were discussing the players at the peak of their careers. You're right - he is a great passer (even if he gets less opportunities nowadays). Of course, the best big man passer is CWebb. Don't deny it.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
No to bold. And a few others (like Barkely) are debatable. Barkely was by far a better offensive player, but he did not have the defensive impact KG does. Prime KG could defend every position, and he is still a very mobile big defender. Kobe's debatable. Stockton as well. KG is probably top 15 - 20 for me. I'll go check my list. I keep it in my wallet along with my list of physical features an ideal woman should have (gotta check it while on dates).benita said:
At the same time, I think of Magic (would anyone call him a good defender?), but nobody rational would say that Peyton was better than Magic based on defense, right? So I can see both arguments being made, but I wouldn't ultimately agree with it. I think each player vs player comparison needs to be isolated.commish said:
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
I dunno, Duncan is a damn good passer.Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
I prefer Duncan's offensive game as well, but that's largely because I don't like seeing big men take a lot of jumpshots. KG really should use his length and what's left of his athleticism in the post. Granted, KG has one of the best mid- to long-range jumpers in the game for anyone...
I think I take prime Duncan over prime KG. I like Duncan's offense more and he plays a more traditional role on defense. That said, KG is an insanely good defender and an amazing player...
Black Mamba said:
Dude you can't use "didn't make the finals" as a slight against Nash and completely ignore Iverson in the same sentence.
Sure Nash played on great teams but they coincided with phenomenal runs from the Spurs and Lakers.
Whatever, we can go round and round about whether KG is top 24, 25, 26 or whatever and it would be a decent debate.
But thekad's top 10 claim? Pure bullshit.
Black Mamba
Member
I think some people have short memories here. Y'all forgot how INSANELY GOOD KG was in his prime.
He averaged like 22-13-6-1.5-1.5 during his prime with less than 3 TOs while shooting 50% FG and 80% FT.
Top that off with all-NBA quality defense every season and legitimately so. He was the toughest player in the NBA to defend (besides Shaq) because he was so skilled from the high post to mid post to win to low bloc.
And he never actually had a competent team around him except for '04.
He averaged like 22-13-6-1.5-1.5 during his prime with less than 3 TOs while shooting 50% FG and 80% FT.
Top that off with all-NBA quality defense every season and legitimately so. He was the toughest player in the NBA to defend (besides Shaq) because he was so skilled from the high post to mid post to win to low bloc.
And he never actually had a competent team around him except for '04.
Let's also not overlook Duncan's defense here. If you needed a big man to anchor your defense, you could either say Duncan or KG and you'd be correct any which way you slice it.
And still not as good as Duncan's prime. Sorry.Black Mamba said:
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
What are the odds that Corbin puts Millsap (Who is hampered by knee injuries and can't move that well and has been a bad defender even without injuries) on Amar'e tonight instead of Favors/Evans? Because I think it's like 60-75% and it will make my head explode. I think Al, Favors, Hayward, and Harris should have great games, think the team will pull out the win. Late game offense needs to be more varied and less predictable though. Al post-up is a good play, but it shouldn't be the only play of the last ten possessions of the game...
reilo said:
Magic wasn't Nash on defense (and wasn't Pippen, either), but on the offensive end of the floor, he is top 5 all time. Dirk, while good, never reached that level. Dirk could score... that's it. Magic could score (when he wanted to), pass, rebound all at all-time great levels.
FWIW, I think GP is a great player and is severely underrated for his career.
Black Mamba
Member
benita said:
Nash lost to Dallas too. Nash continually loses because of his defense.
Iverson made out it out of one of the weakest conferences we've ever seen. Same reason many discount Lebron's finals/
Again, agree on the top 10 being wrong. he's somewhere in the 16-24 range, depending on who you ask IMO.
But some people were saying it's questionable that he's top 50. That's just crazy talk.
edit: FTR, KG didn't take that many more jump shots than Timmy during their prime years. More, yes, but not an excessive amount more (check the $tats). And I too take Duncan over KG. Duncan's passing is underrated, fwiw.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
reilo said:
I'll get back on topic! Wilt > Hakeem > Duncan > Karl Malone > Bill Russell > Michael Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>> KG
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