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[pilonv1]

KNICKS TIME

 

[giri]

I know who monroe is, I said "what has he done?" he's a solid player for a rookie, but to put him at the likes of a Bynum is absurd.

lol @ Jordan playing D like Bynum. Thankfully, I watch both a lot. Jordan is a solid help defender and shot blocker, but not the man to man defender Drew is, and Drew keeps people well out of the paint in general a lot more.

Lopez's defense is like sieve. How he's in the discussion is beyond me.

Bynum's impact on defense is easy for us to see when we watch. The numbers every season confirm it when looking at 5 man unit productions. Since his return, their def efficiency has improved quite a lot.

the per36 thing is stupid (i remember thekad talking about that). And I have issues with PER. But Advanced stats shouldn't be ignored altogether. They should compliment what we see with our own eyes. if you ignore that aspect, then you are not having an honest conversation about basketball.


Last season's argument about Bynum's lack of rebounding was misguided. Last season the team rebounded better with Drew out there than any other big man combo (including Gasol-Odom) even though both Pau and Lamar were better rebounders by the numbers. Reason being, Andrew's defense forced more reboundable shots and he would clear out the paint on rebounds for teammates to snag them. Box scores don't capture this, but I saw it and the 5 man unit numbers confirmed it.

As I said, his impact is understated. People continually said Bynum and gasol don't work well on offense and yet each season the gasol-bynum combo had the best 5 man offensive efficiency numbers. Go figure.

Oh lord, we're calling AB a good Man defender now? No, he isn't. He's also regularly out of position in the lakers D, regularly leaving lanes wide open for driving with poor rotations. Jordan plays both well. Jordon could be better, sure, but he's a lot further along than AB.

Lopez's D this year is terrible, it's not always this bad. He's in the discussion because of how mediocre AB is. Lopez is better on O, and last year, it would've been a hands down Lopez win, this year, even AB is better on D than Lopez, leaving him able to come into that discussion.

He's a 7 footer, of course he has some impact, so does being able to bring Odom off the bench. Adding decent bigs to your front court depth usually makes you better on D, look at what the bobcats did this season.

I've also watched bynum, and he's not a great one for boxing out. In fact, the same cries about him not rebounding usually ended in "at least fucking BOX OUT".

As i said, AB's done this before, gone on stretches. Its what keeps people interested in his talent. He obviously has it, but he's not there mentally of physically to be able to use it.

The T-Mac of big men, with out the seasons of greatness at the start.

 

[etiolate]

edit: Also, I'll add to this, DeMarcus Cousins has no shot of surpassing anyone on this list next season other than Paid Chandler. He also will not surpass Foster, Asik, Monroe, Marc, Camby and may not surpass Avi Lee, JaVale, or Hibbert. He's going to be between the 17th and 21st best center next year.

He's already better than just about everyone you listed there. The guy is putting up 28 & 10 alot of nights on a team that has no PG to set him up.

 

[Omiee]

though loss new york, to bad you couldent turn it around in the 4th

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Uh, T-Mac was a top 3 player in the NBA whereas Bynum has never top 30. T-Mac never got past the first round whereas Bynum has two rings. Bynum is a third or fourth option, T-Mac was a first. That's a terrible comparison. And it's hard to say that DeAndre is so awesome at D when the Clippers are 21st in DRtg. I know there's awful defenders on that Clipper team, but center is what determines most of the defense's ability.

He's already better than just about everyone you listed there. The guy is putting up 28 & 10 alot of nights on a team that has no PG to set him up.

NEGATIVE OFFENSIVE WIN SHARES.

 

[giri]

Their problem is that Psycho T and Jeff Foster are their best players. You can love those types of players, but those aren't guys who lead a team to anything.

No, they aren't. How are they? Grainger, Hibbert & Collison are all better than those 2 guys (more gifted anyway).

 

[dream]

New York officially hates the Knicks.

 

[SamuraiX-]

Did the Knicks really just get blown out out by a struggling Pacers team that is missing its best player?

AT MADISON SQUARE GARDEN?!

 

[The Frankman]

So much for playing better at home. The Returning Player effect + no fire at the start destroyed any chance of the Knicks winning. Knicks had a chance on this 5-game stretch to go 5-0 and you lose to the easiest team on your own court? Blecch. Better kill them next time and win the next 4.

 

[giri]

Uh, T-Mac was a top 3 player in the NBA whereas Bynum has never top 30. T-Mac never got past the first round whereas Bynum has two rings. Bynum is a third or fourth option, T-Mac was a first. That's a terrible comparison. And it's hard to say that DeAndre is so awesome at D when the Clippers are 21st in DRtg. I know there's awful defenders on that Clipper team, but center is what determines most of the defense's ability.





NEGATIVE OFFENSIVE WIN SHARES.

Because i was talking about career acomplishments, obviously, with that statement.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Did the Knicks really just get blown out out by a struggling Pacers team that is missing its best player?

AT MADISON SQUARE GARDEN?!

I'm really not sure what you're talking about. The Pacers' best players suited up. Including Hansbrough who's putting up 17-8 since the all-star break.

 

[Omiee]

Did the Knicks really just get blown out out by a struggling Pacers team that is missing its best player?

AT MADISON SQUARE GARDEN?!

thats what i thought was embarrassing as well. you'd think they would at least try to cut down the lead.
they got some stops but their offense horrible sometimes.
will be interesting to see them come playoff time.

 

[pilonv1]

Remember when people thought Hansbrough wouldn't be an NBA player?

 

[benita]

This Bucks team is terrible.

Hard to understand how they took such a big step backwards this year even dealing with Bogut's recovery.

They've just regressed in every area.

 

[The Frankman]

thats what i thought was embarrassing as well. you'd think they would at least try to cut down the lead.
they got some stops but their offense horrible sometimes.
will be interesting to see them come playoff time.

Basically any given night their offense can go from looking like shit to all-world. They at least had a decent rhythm with Toney Douglas starting, now they have to rediscover it with Billups. Dude played terribly, rushed alot of shots and didn't really look to set people up. His biggest effect can be seen on Landry Fields' lack of a line...

I really think Knicks have to explore using Billups/Douglas like Billups was used with Lawson. Obviously Douglas is NOWHERE near as good a player as Lawson, but you have to save Billups. Also disgusted than Ashy Larry got no burn, dude is a flat out Riley defender who can also guard SGs. Get him in the fucking game, Jesus.

 

[Omiee]

Basically any given night their offense can go from looking like shit to all-world. They at least had a decent rhythm with Toney Douglas starting, now they have to rediscover it with Billups. Dude played terribly, rushed alot of shots and didn't really look to set people up. His biggest effect can be seen on Landry Fields' lack of a line...

I really think Knicks have to explore using Billups/Douglas like Billups was used with Lawson. Obviously Douglas is NOWHERE near as good a player as Lawson, but you have to save Billups. Also disgusted than Ashy Larry got no burn, dude is a flat out Riley defender who can also guard SGs. Get him in the fucking game, Jesus.

yeah douglas had to stop shooting, he was playing pretty horrible. But like you said your offense is not as consistent as you might like.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

The Knicks' Ideal First Round Matchup is the Orlando Magic

Knicks' RealGM board is amazing.

 

[Omiee]

Knicks' RealGM board is amazing.

howard will destroy their front court

 

[benita]

Knicks' RealGM board is amazing.

It's true...

They're not getting the fourth seed so it's either the Magic or Bulls/Heat/Celtics.

They're one and done either way but Orlando is their best shot.

 

[giri]

It's true...

They're not getting the fourth seed so it's either the Magic or Bulls/Heat/Celtics.

They're one and done either way but Orlando is their best shot.

Have they beat the magic yet? i know they've beat the heat...

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Remember when people thought Hansbrough wouldn't be an NBA player?

I thought he'd be a good pro.

Anyone that works as hard as he does and has some skill set will be able to play at that level.

However, I am not high on Tim Tebow at all and he has similar traits but I see the difference being he's playing one of the toughest positions in all of sports.

I haven't really followed Hansbrough besides seeing he doesn't get enough playing time(this might have changed) but I assume you mean he's doing alright???

 

[soundscream]

It's true...

They're not getting the fourth seed so it's either the Magic or Bulls/Heat/Celtics.

They're one and done either way but Orlando is their best shot.

Ahhhhh No.

Orlando can shoot the 3 at a much more steady rate. Along with not having an answer for Howard, I would rather face Chicago or Miami. Odds of winning are low but I dont want any part of Orlando.

 

[Meier]

God damn at Dwight's +29 today.

 

[The Frankman]

Ahhhhh No.

Orlando can shoot the 3 at a much more steady rate. Along with not having an answer for Howard, I would rather face Chicago or Miami. Odds of winning are low but I dont want any part of Orlando.

Chicago is the best matchup. Yeah no one can stop Rose, but Chicago would be playing 5-on-4 (lol Bogans) and has a worse bench than the Knicks. Hell Knicks are 2-0 vs. them and that was the old Knicks, Bulls would have a tough time with Amar'e AND Carmelo.

The Heat series would be entertaining but as long as LeBron dominates the ball and steals Wade's FGs and Bosh's testicles in the 4th they have a puncher's chance.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Chicago is the best matchup. and has a worse bench than the Knicks.

lol

Yeah, 0-2 against the OLD Knicks.

The Bulls will outdefend and outrebound this current Knicks team easily.

Knicks have a better chance against a team with a few good players just like their team and that's not the Bulls.

 

[dream]

Chicago is the best matchup. Yeah no one can stop Rose, but Chicago would be playing 5-on-4 (lol Bogans) and has a worse bench than the Knicks. Hell Knicks are 2-0 vs. them and that was the old Knicks, Bulls would have a tough time with Amar'e AND Carmelo.

I was about to say something about Kevin Love but I can't top what you just said about the Knicks vs the Bulls.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

2009-2010 Hawks swept the Magic in the regular season.

 

[The Frankman]

lol

Yeah, 0-2 against the OLD Knicks.

The Bulls will outdefend and outrebound this current Knicks team easily.

Hard to defend when you only have 4 NBA players on the court.

I was about to say something about Kevin Love but I can't top what you just said about the Knicks vs the Bulls.

What is so controversial? Rose will destroy the Knicks, Amar'e and Carmelo will get theirs, both benches are poor but Knicks are slightly less worse. Chicago is their best shot over Orlando/Boston/Miami.

Tell me where is the lulz? Are you now going to say they have a better shot against Orlando, Miami or BOSTON? Yes please elaborate...

 

[SamuraiX-]

2009-2010 Hawks swept the Magic in the regular season.

Are you trolling?

I'm pretty sure the Magic were 3-1 against them, with the only loss being decided by 2 points while the three wins were blowouts.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Hard to defend when you only have 4 NBA players on the court.

Not hard to defens when you are arguably the best defense in the league and you have arguably the best defensive coach and he has Bogans as a starter.

There's a reason for that besides the trendy "lol Bogans".

He knows his role and does his job well, they don't need him to score 10 points a game, the rest of the starters do that.

 

[dream]

Hard to defend when you only have 4 NBA players on the court.

What is so controversial? Rose will destroy the Knicks, Amar'e and Carmelo will get theirs, both benches are poor but Knicks are slightly less worse. Chicago is their best shot over Orlando/Boston/Miami.

Tell me where is the controversy? Are you going to say they have a better shot against Orlando, Miami or BOSTON? ahhahahhahahaaahahha

I actually do think the Knicks would have a better shot against Miami. Noah presents the same problems for you guys that Dwight does.

 

[giga]

Are you trolling?

I'm pretty sure the Magic were 3-1 against them, with the only loss being decided by 2 points while the three wins were blowouts.

Nope. We never lost to the Magic last year.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

both benches are poor but Knicks are slightly less worse.

notsureifserious.whatever

You think the Bulls' bench is poor???

You think the Knicks' bench is better???

Have you watched the Bulls play much at all this year???

 

[SamuraiX-]

Nope. We never lost to the Magic last year.

Obviously I've been left out of some inside joke.

 

[dream]

notsureifserious.whatever

You think the Bulls' bench is poor???

You think the Knicks' bench is better???

Have you watched the Bulls play much at all this year???

Yeah, I'm with you. I'd take Korver, Gibson, and Watson over the entire Knicks bench.

It's weird how people are still sleeping on a team that already clinched their divison and are on the verge of taking the top seed in their conference. The Bulls are the truth.

 

[giga]

Obviously I've been left out of some inside joke.

Spoiler

He's confusing the Magic with the Celts

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Yeah, I'm with you. I'd take Korver, Gibson, and Watson over the entire Knicks bench.

It's weird how people are still sleeping on a team that already clinched their divison and are on the verge of taking the top seed in their conference. The Bulls are the truth.

They don't have the ESPN superstars(besides Rose), I think that's why this mentality.

It's absurd but people that know the game know what a complete team with hardly any weaknesses the Bulls are.

Even their weaknesses(scoring, backup point guard, lol Bogans), aren't because of complete incompetence as everyone that gets in the game can play basketball.

To add to what you said, they also have a big guy that is getting better and better defending and finishing in Asik and a great defender and decent shooter not to mention great baseline finisher in Brewer.

They also have the savvy Kurt Thomas.

This team is stacked, they just don't wow the average fan I guess.

 

[GremlinFool]

Hard to defend when you only have 4 NBA players on the court.

What is so controversial? Rose will destroy the Knicks, Amar'e and Carmelo will get theirs, both benches are poor but Knicks are slightly less worse. Chicago is their best shot over Orlando/Boston/Miami.

Tell me where is the lulz? Are you now going to say they have a better shot against Orlando, Miami or BOSTON? Yes please elaborate...

The Bulls bench is far better than the Knicks bench, and it isn't close. At least the Bulls have NBA-level players coming off the bench

 

[The Frankman]

Traditionally PGs who are volume scorers don't go too far in the playoffs, and the Knicks' biggest weakness (besides obviously D) is:

1) Teams with a legit inside threat to nullify Stoudemire/get him in foul trouble. From what I've noticed Bulls don't use Boozer as a hammer enough, not that they feel they need to.
2) Teams who can move the ball around and get open 3's. Bulls don't strike me as a team that'll spam the 3, because NY sure will allow a shitton of them open.
3) Luol Deng needs to pressure Carmelo Anthony, he'll be a huge X-Factor on O AND D. If he can single cover/bother him that'll nullify some of the Knicks 3-point attack.

Again, I'm not saying Knicks are better. It's purely a matchup thing, obviously Knicks aren't better than Miami but everyone thinks they can push Miami and beat them.

EDIT: In fairness Watson and Korver did little vs. the Knicks in their matchup, it's Gibson I fear but he's been inconsistent. Your point is noted, Bulls' bench has been playing much better than I thought.

I actually do think the Knicks would have a better shot against Miami. Noah presents the same problems for you guys that Dwight does.

I'll call you when Noah goes for 35 and 14 on the Knicks purely on postups. The day he warrants a double all game I'll eat my hat.

 

[SamuraiX-]

Spoiler

He's confusing the Magic with the Celts

:heatbench

Spoiler

Sadly it doesn't look like it. Magic went 3-1 against Boston that season as well.

 

[giga]

:heatbench

Spoiler

Sadly it doesn't look like it. Magic went 3-1 against Boston that season as well.

Spoiler

Talking about Hawks v Celtics

 

[giri]

notsureifserious.whatever

You think the Bulls' bench is poor???

You think the Knicks' bench is better???

Have you watched the Bulls play much at all this year???

woah woah woah. Whilst i'd agree the bulls bench is better than the knicks bench, lets not make out like They're 10 deep here. Korver is a role player for a reason, so is asik, Kurt, brewer & watson. Gibson is a v.good 6th man but it's not a magical bench or anything.


And yes, LoL bogans.

 

[GremlinFool]

woah woah woah. Whilst i'd agree the bulls bench is better than the knicks bench, lets not make out like They're 10 deep here. Korver is a role player for a reason, so is asik, Kurt, brewer & watson. Gibson is a v.good 6th man but it's not a magical bench or anything.


And yes, LoL bogans.

Can't really think of a better bench in basketball.

 

[SamuraiX-]

Spoiler

Talking about Hawks v Celtics

Spoiler

Oh, I see... but... wait, what? How is that in anyway related to what's being discussed on this page?

 

[giga]

Spoiler

Oh, I see... but... wait, what? What does have to do with anything related to what's being discussed on this page?

No idea. But that was the team we swept which I assume he mistook for the Magic.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Shit, I thought remembered some comments about the Magic being swept by the Hawks, but I was terribly wrong, eugh.

 

[giri]

Can't really think of a better bench in basketball.

Dudley, Aaron Brooks, Gortat, Pietrus.

2 of those guys would start on the bulls.

You musn't have been here for long, cause, there are many better benches.

iirc, i think SAS are deepish too.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

woah woah woah. Whilst i'd agree the bulls bench is better than the knicks bench, lets not make out like They're 10 deep here. Korver is a role player for a reason, so is asik, Kurt, brewer & watson. Gibson is a v.good 6th man but it's not a magical bench or anything.


And yes, LoL bogans.

Yes, Bogans plays good defense and unless you don't watch the games, I agree.

He also hits the open three decently.

Of course the bench are role players, not many teams have stars and starters on the bench because ummm.....they are on the bench.

The Bulls bench(mixed with some starters) usually holds down the fort and in some cases actually outplays the team that is on the floor.

No one said they are one of the best benches of all time but everyone on the bench can play and Taj Gibson could start on many a team.

The only player that pisses me off on the bench is Watson and while he plays brainless at times, he will make plays that open your eyes believing he sometimes knows what he is doing.

You act like the Bulls play all the bench players together at the same time, this is not the case. They mix them with the starters and they blend in really well.

 

[The Frankman]

Can't really think of a better bench in basketball.

Denver, Boston and A LOT of other teams want a word with you, dude.

 

[msdstc]

If you ever saw Nenad pre-injury... dude has had problems finding his old form, but on a playoff team Nenad can be good. VERY good.

EDIT: Checked his numbers... yeah he's not really a big rebounder, but he'll hit that 17-foot jumper all day and is more willing to bang than you'd think.

I noticed in his 3rd season he was really starting to develop. I just don't understand how you can fall so hard. He has been getting it done though so far, maybe he can keep it up, and he doesn't even really need to since he'll be splittin minutes with shaq, its just good to have some offense on the floor coming from your center.