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[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Rose taking bad shots doesn't matter that much for this Bulls team since he's the only offense most of the time.

That doesn't explain why all the Bulls' starters besdies Bogans average double figures in points.

LUOL DENG IS A CONSISTENT SCORER PEOPLE.

 

[Mothman91]

Going to D.C to watch Okc vs wizards. Heard maybe Perkins will make his debut. Can anyone clarify??

 

[J2 Cool]

Bulls fans need to stop being so overprotective of Rose. Red Blaster never even questioned him as a top 5 PG. :lol Especially this season with Paul/Deron banged up and Rondo still searching for his shot.

It's too bad we'll never know how good CP3 could have become. He was fucking amazing.

I'm hoping that 33/15 is a sign of things to come. Glad he ditched the knee brace.

 

[MidnightCowboy]

That doesn't explain why all the Bulls' starters besdies Bogans average double figures in points.

LUOL DENG IS A CONSISTENT SCORER PEOPLE.

I actually really like Luol Deng. He's finally come into his own. He's ballin this year.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Bulls fans need to stop being so overprotective of Rose.

Some need to be more realistic about him as well.

I won't mention any names but it seems like when one is at the top(Rose is the frontrunner), people like to knock him down.

Not those that don't think he is the MVP but rather people that question his ability and overall game.

I have a feeling if he was on their team and they saw him every night, they'd praise him to the heavens.

Then again, people go from "unreal" when talking about him to "choker/loser" when he makes any mistakes but that's NBA-Age for you, it's amusing.

 

[diehard]

Then again, people go from "unreal" when talking about him to "choker/loser" when he makes any mistakes but that's NBA-Age for you, it's amusing.

That's just how it is man, Deron was hitting clutch shot after clutch shot, then he goes out in the all-star game and commits a retarded foul and i coined Deron Webber and it stuck since. Credit to one of the Rocket fans for forcing it though.. can't remember who.

 

[The Stealth Fox]

That's just how it is man, Deron was hitting clutch shot after clutch shot, then he goes out in the all-star game and commits a retarded foul and i coined Deron Webber and it stuck since. Credit to one of the Rocket fans for forcing it though.. can't remember who.

You can thank me for that. High five!

 

[SamuraiX-]

I actually really like Luol Deng. He's finally come into his own. He's ballin this year.

To be fair he's currently averaging the same amount of points he did last season and is shooting a lower percentage.

I think he really needs to tone it down from 3.

4 3pt attempts per game for him is too many when he's only shooting 34% from out there. Two or three attempts per game would be preferable.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

That foul Deron committed was a good foul. Wade had been shooting 67% from the line in clutch situations that season and the East would have scored anyway and given the West almost no time left on the clock.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I think he really needs to tone it down from 3.

Not from the corners.

I have no problem with Deng's game, he's maybe the smartest player on the team.

He really has no big weaknesses though he could improve his foul shooting.

Rose dramatically improved his during the season.

 

[SamuraiX-]

Not from the corners.

I have no problem with Deng's game, he's maybe the smartest player on the team.

He really has no big weaknesses though he could improve his foul shooting.

Rose dramatically improved his during the season.

He jacks up way too many. And a lot of them I've seen are usually poor shot selection.

Bulls at 31-16 when he shots 4 or more 3-pointers a game.

They're 16-2 when he shots less than that.

He is way more effective from mid-range and driving to the basket. I wouldn't want him taking 3s unless it's a catch-and-shoot and he's fairly open.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

He jacks up way too many. And a lot of them I've seen are usually poor shot selection.

Bulls at 31-16 when he shots 4 or more 3-pointers a game.

They're 16-2 when he shots less than that.

He is way more effective from mid-range and driving to the basket. I wouldn't want him taking 3s unless it's a catch-and-shoot and he's fairly open.

He's worked on them a lot though and has gotten better at them but like you said, the stats don't support that.

I have no problem with him taking them if he is wide open as he can hit them(was hitting them a lot more early on in the year than now for some reason).

But yeah, he's a very good midrange shooter and strong and crafty as fuck taking it to the rim.

 

[Booshka]

I hope there is a lockout. Give Kobe and Pau a full year off before going for the 4peat.

yea so Pau can get soft again.

 

[SamuraiX-]

The only time this season he seemed to be hot from 3 was in December when he was still averaging 4 per game but making 42% of them.

He also shot a decent 36% in November.

In January and February, he was shooting 28% and 31% respectively from behind the arc, still averaging 4 per game each month. He's not doing much better March.

He has averaged 1.3 attempted 3-pointers per game in the seven years he's been in the league, never averaging more than 2 attempts per game in a single season.

That's why I'm skeptical if he really has gotten better with his shooting, or if he just went through an anomaly of a hot streak at the beginning of the season and thinks he can still turn it on.

The same goes for Rose who hasn't even averaged 30% from behind the arc in the past couple of months.

 

[SephCast]

How could someone say Russell Westbrook is better than Rose???

Hollinger is all about Russell's "efficiency".

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

The only time this season he seemed to be hot from 3 was in December when he was still averaging 4 per game but making 42% of them.

He also shot a decent 36% in November.

In January and February, he was shooting 28% and 31% respectively from behind the arc, still averaging 4 per game each month. He's not doing much better March.

He has averaged 1.3 attempted 3-pointers per game in the seven years he's been in the league, never averaging more than 2 attempts per game in a single season.

That's why I'm skeptical if he really has gotten better with his shooting, or if he just went through an anomaly of a hot streak at the beginning of the season and thinks he can still turn it on.

The same goes for Rose who hasn't even averaged 30% from behind the arc in the past couple of months.

I think they both have gotten better at them(Rose definitely).

I follow the team and hearing what the coaches and players say, it's the case likely but that doesn't mean you're going to be able to show that consistently in a game(against other teams) setting.

I don't care as much about them being threepoint shooters per say but moreso them being threats to hit the shot because it makes the defense more honest and they can take them off the dribble.

However, Rose sometimes gets left out there and not taken seriously from that range.

He makes the pay...........sometimes.

 

[giri]

He jacks up way too many. And a lot of them I've seen are usually poor shot selection.

Bulls at 31-16 when he shots 4 or more 3-pointers a game.

They're 16-2 when he shots less than that.

He is way more effective from mid-range and driving to the basket. I wouldn't want him taking 3s unless it's a catch-and-shoot and he's fairly open.

He also thinks brewer should take every jump shot he can.

Yes, brewer.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Chad Ford: "Jared Sullinger is like Boozer.."

No, he's not, he doesn't have Boozer's jumper.

"Millsap..."

He doesn't have Millsap handle or quickness

"Elton Brand"

His explosion and wingspan pales in comparison to Brand's.


Chad Ford kind of sucks at this stuff. I remember when he compared prospects that couldn't dribble to T-Mac.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

He also thinks brewer should take every jump shot he can.

Yes, brewer.

I never said that but you make up a lot of shit.

 

[Sharp]

Hey if we are going to talk stats in the NBA thread I think we need to lay down some law so people don't just spout bullshit. Like:

- Individual defensive metrics are pretty worthless, especially when you're talking about what someone's doing in bench player minutes.
- Individual offensive metrics are only marginally better. Interaction effects make statistics based on stat-sheet numbers (points, rebounds, assists, etc.) somewhat misleading. However...
- +/- stats, even though they capture everything, have so much noise that they don't really become meaningful until a player's career is basically finished.
- More often than not, a player's MPG (basically, how much a coach wants them out on the floor) correlates more strongly with their winning percentage than whatever the advanced stat someone is citing is. Seriously. It's a better predictor than Hollinger's fucking PER, so stop bringing that shitty statistic into serious discussions.
- Team stats (pace, offensive/defensive rating, etc.) are pretty reliable, but they are dependent on coach and lineup and can be dramatically affected by individual absences due to injury.
- Three point shooting is like batting average, what someone shoots in one month tells you jack and shit about their true talent level.

Basketball isn't baseball. Advanced stats can tell us some things are overvalued and undervalued but most of it is pretty common-sense if you stop to think about it for a minute. Basketball players have a ton of possessions per game and unless they're rookies or having their stats in/deflated by a weird system, you can usually figure out about how good they are within 10-15 games. If a stat tells you someone's an insanely great defensive player but you know they aren't from watching the games (Memo), you might as well go with your gut.

 

[twinturbo2]

If the Heat can at least keep it close this time with the Spurs tonight, I'll be happy. Please, no more 30-point blowouts unless the Heat are on the winning side (thanks, Grizzlies!).

 

[giri]

I never said that but you make up a lot of shit.

You did, just yesterday. In amongst saying that Korver is a good defender.

Or were you drunk/on drugs and dont' remember?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

- More often than not, a player's MPG (basically, how much a coach wants them out on the floor) correlates more strongly with their winning percentage than whatever the advanced stat someone is citing is. Seriously.

Raja Bell

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

You did, just yesterday. In amongst saying that Korver is a good defender.

Or were you drunk/on drugs and dont' remember?

Show me the quote of mine that said what you just said I said(terrible sentence, won't change it for terrible poster though).

 

[Black Mamba]

Hey if we are going to talk stats in the NBA thread I think we need to lay down some law so people don't just spout bullshit. Like:

- Individual defensive metrics are pretty worthless, especially when you're talking about what someone's doing in bench player minutes.
- Individual offensive metrics are only marginally better. Interaction effects make statistics based on stat-sheet numbers (points, rebounds, assists, etc.) somewhat misleading. However...
- +/- stats, even though they capture everything, have so much noise that they don't really become meaningful until a player's career is basically finished.
- More often than not, a player's MPG (basically, how much a coach wants them out on the floor) correlates more strongly with their winning percentage than whatever the advanced stat someone is citing is. Seriously. It's a better predictor than Hollinger's fucking PER, so stop bringing that shitty statistic into serious discussions.
- Team stats (pace, offensive/defensive rating, etc.) are pretty reliable, but they are dependent on coach and lineup and can be dramatically affected by individual absences due to injury.
- Three point shooting is like batting average, what someone shoots in one month tells you jack and shit about their true talent level.

Basketball isn't baseball. Advanced stats can tell us some things are overvalued and undervalued but most of it is pretty common-sense if you stop to think about it for a minute. Basketball players have a ton of possessions per game and unless they're rookies or having their stats in/deflated by a weird system, you can usually figure out about how good they are within 10-15 games. If a stat tells you someone's an insanely great defensive player but you know they aren't from watching the games (Memo), you might as well go with your gut.

A lot of the stuff you talk about is right when it comes to predictions (hence the minutes per game part) but as far as accounting goes it can be pretty good (and more reliable than minutes).

But I do agree with you to an extent, especially where the basketball isn't baseball part. Take usage for example. It's not "true usage," it's just possession enders. Lebron, for example, dominates the ball a lot more than Ray Allen does than what usage indicates.

As I think I mentioned before, I like to look at the 5 man unit statistics more than anything because I think they're easier for using in evaluation. Studies have shown that most players production is consistent over time and most of the movement is from changing teams. This indicates to me that it's because 5 man unit data is very consistent over time. unfortunately, no one has done the analysis yet on my hypothesis, perhaps due to data issues (not many teams stay together enough long enough as units).

Here's where an alarm should go off, though. When pretty much all the metrics say the opposite of what you think, you're probably the one that's wrong. And by this I don't mean "Rose is the 4th best PG" and the metrics say he's 3rd. I mean huge disparity between your perception and the metrics.

Really, I can't think of a situation where they all agree and were still wrong.

 

[The Stealth Fox]

Hey if we are going to talk stats in the NBA thread I think we need to lay down some law so people don't just spout bullshit. Like:

- Individual defensive metrics are pretty worthless, especially when you're talking about what someone's doing in bench player minutes.
- Individual offensive metrics are only marginally better. Interaction effects make statistics based on stat-sheet numbers (points, rebounds, assists, etc.) somewhat misleading. However...
- +/- stats, even though they capture everything, have so much noise that they don't really become meaningful until a player's career is basically finished.
- More often than not, a player's MPG (basically, how much a coach wants them out on the floor) correlates more strongly with their winning percentage than whatever the advanced stat someone is citing is. Seriously. It's a better predictor than Hollinger's fucking PER, so stop bringing that shitty statistic into serious discussions.
- Team stats (pace, offensive/defensive rating, etc.) are pretty reliable, but they are dependent on coach and lineup and can be dramatically affected by individual absences due to injury.
- Three point shooting is like batting average, what someone shoots in one month tells you jack and shit about their true talent level.

Basketball isn't baseball. Advanced stats can tell us some things are overvalued and undervalued but most of it is pretty common-sense if you stop to think about it for a minute. Basketball players have a ton of possessions per game and unless they're rookies or having their stats in/deflated by a weird system, you can usually figure out about how good they are within 10-15 games. If a stat tells you someone's an insanely great defensive player but you know they aren't from watching the games (Memo), you might as well go with your gut.

Even though simple NBA.com boxscores/career stats/team stats can be misleading, I find a lot of these advanced metrics meaningless.

The simple stats and watching the games tell me more than all these weird formulas people come up with. And overall season stats tell me more than a single month, because everything always averages out over the course of an 82 game season.

 

[jman2050]

Here's where an alarm should go off, though. When pretty much all the metrics say the opposite of what you think, you're probably the one that's wrong. And by this I don't mean "Rose is the 4th best PG" and the metrics say he's 3rd. I mean huge disparity between your perception and the metrics.

This statement makes me wonder what you think about this forum's stance on Lebron.

 

[reilo]

Hey if we are going to talk stats in the NBA thread I think we need to lay down some law so people don't just spout bullshit. Like:

- Individual defensive metrics are pretty worthless, especially when you're talking about what someone's doing in bench player minutes.
- Individual offensive metrics are only marginally better. Interaction effects make statistics based on stat-sheet numbers (points, rebounds, assists, etc.) somewhat misleading. However...
- +/- stats, even though they capture everything, have so much noise that they don't really become meaningful until a player's career is basically finished.
- More often than not, a player's MPG (basically, how much a coach wants them out on the floor) correlates more strongly with their winning percentage than whatever the advanced stat someone is citing is. Seriously. It's a better predictor than Hollinger's fucking PER, so stop bringing that shitty statistic into serious discussions.
- Team stats (pace, offensive/defensive rating, etc.) are pretty reliable, but they are dependent on coach and lineup and can be dramatically affected by individual absences due to injury.
- Three point shooting is like batting average, what someone shoots in one month tells you jack and shit about their true talent level.

Basketball isn't baseball. Advanced stats can tell us some things are overvalued and undervalued but most of it is pretty common-sense if you stop to think about it for a minute. Basketball players have a ton of possessions per game and unless they're rookies or having their stats in/deflated by a weird system, you can usually figure out about how good they are within 10-15 games. If a stat tells you someone's an insanely great defensive player but you know they aren't from watching the games (Memo), you might as well go with your gut.

slowclap.gif

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Chad Ford is comparing Harrison Barnes to Marvin Williams, is this guy on drugs?

 

[reilo]

This statement makes me wonder what you think about this forum's stance on Lebron.

What stance would that be?

 

[J2 Cool]

I actually really like Luol Deng. He's finally come into his own. He's ballin this year.

He is way more effective from mid-range and driving to the basket. I wouldn't want him taking 3s unless it's a catch-and-shoot and he's fairly open.

Deng's got this Pippen-lite thing going. Some nights his statlines and defense remind me of Pipp. He's a good scorer, good rebounder, good defender, pretty good passer. (improved his assists every month)

He has a damn good mid-range game also, that some nights he shows and some nights he doesn't. Dependent on if he decides to be aggressive that night, and it always catches me offguard when he turns it on. I feel like an opposing player must have talked bad about his gf in shootarounds.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

What stance would that be?

Crab stance.

 

[etiolate]

if harrison barnes = marvin then NO WANT

 

[The Stealth Fox]

Anyone arguing that Andrew Bynum is a Top 5 center in the league based on metrics is merely showing how worthless metrics are.

 

[reilo]

Crab stance.

 

[etiolate]

Cousins already slammed top 5 C Bynum.

 

[Rodeo Clown]

AP reporter Jon Krawczynski being sued by ref Bill Spooner over this twitter post:

"Ref Bill Spooner told Rambis he'd "get it back" after a bad call. Then he made an even worse call on Rockets. That's NBA officiating folks."

Spooner called that Tweet a defamatory accusation of game fixing, and said the reporter and his employer have refused to retract it. His suit seeks more than $75,000 in damages, the Tweet to be unpublished and a retraction of the statement.

smh

 

[twinturbo2]

Okay, I laughed. You win this time.

 

[Black Mamba]

This statement makes me wonder what you think about this forum's stance on Lebron.

I forgot to post something in that response. I think advanced metrics have a major problem with the margins (players who do something really well, like rebound, or really poorly). This is why some advanced metrics have players like Troy Murphy really good, even superstar level, because they could rebound like crazy. But at the margins you're just taking away rebounds your teammates would have had so you're not changing anything about your team. And if your defense stinks, your rebounding means even less.


As for Lebron, I actually agree with most of NBA-GAF's take on him. I don't think anyone here doesn't actually see him as an elite player in the league, though. But his problem continues to be that he has a limited in offensive skills range. But he's so dominant at what he does in the limited range that against like 24 of the 30 teams it doesn't matter. Against the other 5 it becomes an legit issue.

He's a dominant NBA player but NOT the most skilled basketball player.


edit: eh, forgot the 'not' in there.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

How are Gerald Wallace and Terrence Jones similar? This podcast is taking away brain cells. Jones' best case is Millsap, his worst is Blatche. Those are the guys he's plays like, he doesn't play like Wallace at all.

 

[giri]

Show me the quote of mine that said what you just said I said(terrible sentence, won't change it for terrible poster though).

Why would i waste my time, you'll just completely ignore it and go on "what you see" and ignore the fact that brewer is a terrible shooter regardless.

BREWER TIME.

 

[etiolate]

AP reporter Jon Krawczynski being sued by ref Bill Spooner over this twitter post:


smh

Stern practicing his mafia boss talk as we speak

 

[giri]

Cousins already slammed top 5 C Bynum.

He couldn't have been, Bynum is an elite defensive C, especially 1v1.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Why would i waste my time, you'll just completely ignore it and go on "what you see" and ignore the fact that brewer is a terrible shooter regardless.

BREWER TIME.

Nice excuse for "I totally misrepresented what you said".

Good backpedalling except it wasn't very good at all.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Perkins dominated Dwight once, lmfao Dwight Howard.

 

[Rodeo Clown]

Chad Ford is comparing Harrison Barnes to Marvin Williams, is this guy on drugs?

I just want everyone to know this is not what Ford was saying in his podcast with Simmons. Comprehension is key.

 

[giri]

Nice excuse for "I totally misrepresented what you said".

Good backpedalling except it wasn't very good at all.

Nice way to try and get out of everything you said yesterday

You shoot, you missed!

BREWER TIME!

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Perkins dominated Dwight once, lmfao Dwight Howard.

Asik outrebounded him last game the two teams played against each other.

Dwight Howfraud!!!!!

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I just want everyone to know this is not what Ford was saying in his podcast with Simmons. Comprehension is key.

I did skip ahead a bit and Ford was just contrasting Marvin and Barnes so maybe I needed context.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Nice way to try and get out of everything you said yesterday

You shoot, you missed!

BREWER TIME!

You're the one that can't simply quote me saying what you accused me of.

I don't blame you though as it'd be impossible, just as it is probable that you pull shit out of your ass and then can't back it up.