Support NeoGAF

[Cpt.Underpants]

WTF Jaime and Brienne were my favorite chapters of AFFC

You and me both

Spoiler

I liked Asha and Victarion as well except Sam Tarly

 

[lingiii]

WTF Jaime and Brienne were my favorite chapters of Storm of Swords

Fixed that for you

Brienne sucks in Feast for Crows. I'm re-reading that one now and I think what's most frustrating is knowing that she's just going to get unceremoniously hanged after having exactly no impact on the world after parting ways with Jaime.

 

[exYle]

Fixed that for you

Brienne sucks in Feast for Crows. I'm re-reading that one now and I think what's most frustrating is knowing that she's just going to get unceremoniously hanged after having exactly no impact on the world after parting ways with Jaime.

But... She survives.

 

[cubicle47b]

But... She survives.

Yeah, she shows up in Jaime's last chapter in ADwD to give us another cliffhanger. Also, the second half of her story in AFfC is great.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

You and me both

Spoiler

I liked Asha and Victarion as well except Sam Tarly

Sam was awesome because of Fat Pink Mast.

 

[lingiii]

But... She survives.

Yeah, she shows up in Jaime's last chapter in ADwD to give us another cliffhanger. Also, the second half of her story in AFfC is great.

lol oops.

I "read" most of Dance with Dragons on audiobook while driving St. Louis -> LA. guess a bunch of stuff went in one ear out the other. guess Oklahoma has a negative impact on listening comprehension

 

[TCRS]

edit: wrong asoiaf thread.

 

[exYle]

lol oops.

I "read" most of Dance with Dragons on audiobook while driving St. Louis -> LA. guess a bunch of stuff went in one ear out the other. guess Oklahoma has a negative impact on listening comprehension

To be fair, she shows up at the end of Jaime's single chapter and only for a couple of paragraphs to utter her über cliffhanger line

 

[Iksenpets]

Best part of the damphair chapters is learning that Euron possibly was molesting his younger brother when they were kids.

I was rereading the chapter in Clash where Theon meets Asha, and I got the impression that Euron may have gotten his hands on Theon, too. When Asha mentions him, the book goes out of its way to point out that it makes Theon squirm in his seat. Maybe he's just really scared of that creepy eye though.

Also, I don't know what's up with Asha haters. She's not the most complex character in the books, but she's the most fun in my book.

 

[daripad]

I was rereading the chapter in Clash where Theon meets Asha, and I got the impression that Euron may have gotten his hands on Theon, too. When Asha mentions him, the book goes out of its way to point out that it makes Theon squirm in his seat. Maybe he's just really scared of that creepy eye though.

Also, I don't know what's up with Asha haters. She's not the most complex character in the books, but she's the most fun in my book.

Asha is pretty interesting. I laughed out loud when she trolled Theon and when she was raped and then she wanted that guy to have sex with her again.

Also there seems to be an unsullied that went to a prostitute just to receive a hug. Can anyone remind me in which chapter it happened?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Asha is pretty interesting. I laughed out loud when she trolled Theon and when she was raped and then she wanted that guy to have sex with her again.

....What?

Also there seems to be an unsullied that went to a prostitute just to receive a hug. Can anyone remind me in which chapter it happened?

.....What?

 

[Iksenpets]

Asha is pretty interesting. I laughed out loud when she trolled Theon and when she was raped and then she wanted that guy to have sex with her again.

Also there seems to be an unsullied that went to a prostitute just to receive a hug. Can anyone remind me in which chapter it happened?

I'm pretty sure the "rapist" was her boyfriend, and that was just role play...

 

[Fidelis Hodie]

Don't think we're supposed to like the Ironborn really. They're a cold and distant people.

I kind of love them, honestly. I really like the damphair chapters and he's easily the worst.

 

[cubicle47b]

....What?

.....What?

I remember the unsullied part and thought it was great (and sad at the same time). Despite being a eunuch and having training meant to emotionally cripple him he retained enough humanity to need physical touch/comfort.

 

[bengraven]

Dismissing Dorne and the Iron Islands at this point is stupid, he didn't spend two books writing all of that to have them be irrelevant or play a small role in the coming books.

Dorne is going to play a big role in deciding who takes the throne before Winter arrives at the capital. Euron is going to end up as the antagonist to Daenerys and bring her to Westeros with the Dragon Horn.

GRRM introduced them midway through the game. He should have done that a lot sooner. Even if a spot here or there, a quick mention. I know he's writing this off the cuff, but he also said he knows the end game...if they were important for the ending, he would or should have introduced them earlier.

That's a big reason for people not liking Feast - suddenly we have a ton of new characters and things slow down. We don't care about these people because we still barely know them. And we barely like them.

 

[williamsan]

I remember the unsullied part and thought it was great (and sad at the same time). Despite being a eunuch and having training meant to emotionally cripple him he retained enough humanity to need physical touch/comfort.

Yeah its in Dance, when the Son of the Harpy kills someone, don't think it was their first attack, but they did it. Dany was asking why her unsullied was in a brothel in the first place and they said cause he still wanted physical connection, Dany was really holding back the tears during that, I think. Fuck, I was too that was sad as shit reading

 

[timetokill]

Man I dunno, I love Dorne though I do wish they were introduced earlier. We did get some of that with one of the most awesome battles in the entire series though (The Viper). But I love all of the characters there. I really hope to see more of them, and the thing I'm probably looking forward to the most in the next book is how things go with them having more of a direct influence in King's Landing.

 

[ReeseHoward]

ASOIAF fan translator:

"I love Dorne!" = "I love Oberyn."
"I hate Dorne!" = "I hate the Queenmaker arc."

 

[Iksenpets]

GRRM introduced them midway through the game. He should have done that a lot sooner. Even if a spot here or there, a quick mention. I know he's writing this off the cuff, but he also said he knows the end game...if they were important for the ending, he would or should have introduced them earlier.

That's a big reason for people not liking Feast - suddenly we have a ton of new characters and things slow down. We don't care about these people because we still barely know them. And we barely like them.

Dorne is pretty regularly discussed throughout Clash, though I don't think any of its particular characters are. And then Oberyn enters the scene in Storm. But yeah, Dorne could've used some more setup. The Islands though, every Greyjoy character except Euron appears in Clash, and Euron is discussed. But then they disappear for Storm, which hurts them.

I was mostly ok with the shift in focus to those regions since the shift from Storm to Feast felt like an act break, and new plots entering felt natural. I think the main problem is that since those plots are competing for space with all the old plots, and so we're only getting like four chapters a book out of them. If you only gave me four Jamie or Arya or Tyrion chapters to work off of their characters would feel under developed too.

 

[cubicle47b]

I don't really see the problem with introducing characters later on in the story when they become relevant although Aegon would have pushed the limits of that if he was actually a Targaryen.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I liked Dorne better than the Iron Islands. There's more interesting stuff going on down there. I couldn't care less which asshole sits on the Seastone Chair, or Damphair's skills with CPR.

 

[Iksenpets]

I don't really see the problem with introducing characters later on in the story when they become relevant although Aegon would have pushed the limits of that if he was actually a Targaryen.

I have more of a problem with Aegon than I do with Dorne or the Islands. We always knew that those places were out there and were playing the game, too, but Aegon just comes out of nowhere. The mummer's dragon stuff foreshadowed it in retrospect, but not enough. Especially now that you know that Aegon was Varys/Illyrio's end game, the fact that their conversation in AGoT didn't make some passing reference to a boy or something like that that would've at least keyed us in to be looking for someone to show up, even if we didn't know who that someone was.

 

[timetokill]

ASOIAF fan translator:

"I love Dorne!" = "I love Oberyn."
"I hate Dorne!" = "I hate the Queenmaker arc."

I actually love Arianne, Hotah, and all of the politicking going on there. The stuff going on with Myrcella and all of the Sand Snakes. The Viper was a cool intro to that group is all

 

[Gvaz]

I don't really like dorne except for Hotah and Oberyn :s

 

[LuchaShaq]

Asha is pretty interesting. I laughed out loud when she trolled Theon and when she was raped and then she wanted that guy to have sex with her again.

Also there seems to be an unsullied that went to a prostitute just to receive a hug. Can anyone remind me in which chapter it happened?

Um it isn't rape just because a couple of people like rough sex.

If someone genuinely tried to rape Asha I'm fairly certain they would die/lose their cock or have to kill her.

 

[Basileus777]

Asha's rough sex scene was hilarious because of how poorly/awkwardly it was written.

 

[HK-47]

This is a major problem I have with the books. I just don't believe it whenever a character "dies" anymore. I want to be emotionally affected and surprised, but I can't help thinking, "eh, he's probably not dead."

I blame Martin's constant use of bait-and-switch regarding character deaths. They're just meaningless by now. Is Jon dead? Probably not. Stannis? Nah. It's funny, Tyrion's drowning didn't even register to me as a death. I just saw it as an chapter-ending cliffhanger, and it didn't even cross my mind that he might have died.

Come on, Martin. Make deaths important and permanent again.

Meh. Characters like Jon, Tyrion and Stannis arent going to die anyways until the end. Its obvious most of the major characters have had long term storylines made that wont be cut short to satisfy shock deaths like Ned Stark. Its much easier to do early on. Unless Martin finds he needs an 8th to finish, Winter should start the meat grinder going again as it leads intot he finale. Plus I'm not sure any of those examples were actually trying to legitimately trick the reader into thinking those characters are dead. Definitely all cliffhangers rather than bait and switches.

 

[bluemax]

Asha's rough sex scene was hilarious because of how poorly/awkwardly it was written.

Much like all the rest of the sex. GURM is not really good at writing certain things but he insists on doing so anyhow.

 

[Dresden]

When Martin kills someone they usually die in-chapter, heads cut off, etc. The cliffhangers are just his way to sustaining momentum--I blame the lifetime of writing failed tv scripts and pulp for this.

 

[HK-47]

When Martin kills someone they usually die in-chapter, heads cut off, etc. The cliffhangers are just his way to sustaining momentum--I blame the lifetime of writing failed tv scripts and pulp for this.

Yeah its definitely a very TV writer like habit.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

It'd be funny if GRRM completed the series with the only POV death being Ned (other than the prologue/epilogue characters and Cat doesn't count).

 

[Joni]

It'd be funny if GRRM completed the series with the only POV death being Ned (other than the prologue/epilogue characters and Cat doesn't count).

Quentin Martell and Arys Oakheart.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

Oh yeah, damn, well there goes that theory haha!

 

[ahoyhoy]

Quentin Martell and Arys Oakheart.

Arys wasn't a POV. That was an Arriane chapter.

Also Davos not actually being dead pleasantly surprised me on both counts: first after the Battle of the Blackwater, and then again after Manderly suggests to have him executed, thus corroborating the story we heard in Feast.

 

[Eidan]

Arys wasn't a POV. That was an Arriane chapter.

Also Davos not actually being dead pleasantly surprised me on both counts: first after the Battle of the Blackwater, and then again after Manderly suggests to have him executed, thus corroborating the story we heard in Feast.

Arys gets one POV chapter in AFFC, "The Soiled Knight".

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Asha's rough sex scene was hilarious because of how poorly/awkwardly it was written.

What? You're telling me you've never had sex and began to wonder where your genitals end and your partner's begins?

 

[PolishQ]

Oh yeah, damn, well there goes that theory haha!

Not to mention that Ned dies in an Arya chapter.

EDIT: Oh, I see what you were saying.

 

[shintoki]

Meh. Characters like Jon, Tyrion and Stannis arent going to die anyways until the end. Its obvious most of the major characters have had long term storylines made that wont be cut short to satisfy shock deaths like Ned Stark. Its much easier to do early on. Unless Martin finds he needs an 8th to finish, Winter should start the meat grinder going again as it leads intot he finale. Plus I'm not sure any of those examples were actually trying to legitimately trick the reader into thinking those characters are dead. Definitely all cliffhangers rather than bait and switches.

The issue is that it lost all supposed suspense and has become an annoyance rather.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Arys gets one POV chapter in AFFC, "The Soiled Knight".

Oh, I thought he was implying the character died during his POV.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Ned didn't die during his POV, it was Arya's...

But anyway, those two POVs are not exactly important characters and fan favourites. Honestly I'd say Catelyn is the other dead POV, and yes, Catelyn is dead. Lady Stoneheart is not Catelyn Stark.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

I'm just wondering, do we consider the added scenes from the TV show to be canon?

The Catelyn scene on the show is why I'm wondering. To me, from the reading the books I couldn't ever imagine book Catelyn praying for Jon to survive.

Obviously GRRM is involved in the show, do they check with him when they add little bits like that?

 

[daripad]

I'm just wondering, do we consider the added scenes from the TV show to be canon?

The Catelyn scene on the show is why I'm wondering. To me, from the reading the books I couldn't ever imagine book Catelyn praying for Jon to survive.

Obviously GRRM is involved in the show, do they check with him when they add little bits like that?

then it means the will named Jon as Robb's heir?

 

[cubicle47b]

I'm just wondering, do we consider the added scenes from the TV show to be canon?

The Catelyn scene on the show is why I'm wondering. To me, from the reading the books I couldn't ever imagine book Catelyn praying for Jon to survive.

Obviously GRRM is involved in the show, do they check with him when they add little bits like that?

Absolutely not. GRRM is involved in the show in that he writes an episodes a season, answers questions, and probably makes suggestions but the showrunners ultimately decide what goes into the show. You couldn't even begin to resolve conflicts between what happened in the books and what happens on the show.

 

[HK-47]

Killing pov characters don't really matter all that much. Deaths of non pov characters are just as important. It's how it affect the story that matters. Way too much focus on pov death as some necessary component

 

[Wh0 N0se]

Absolutely not. GRRM is involved in the show in that he writes an episodes a season, answers questions, and probably makes suggestions but the showrunners ultimately decide what goes into the show. You couldn't even begin to resolve conflicts between what happened in the books and what happens on the show.

Yeah, didn't think of that. I suppose they are just trying to make Catelyn a bit more likeable on the TV show seeing as a lot of people blame her in the earlier books for some of the things she did.

Killing pov characters don't really matter all that much. Deaths of non pov characters are just as important. It's how it affect the story that matters. Way too much focus on a lack of pov death as some necessary component

It's the characters you're most attached to that make the deaths important. Not many people care about Quentyns death.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I'm just wondering, do we consider the added scenes from the TV show to be canon?

The Catelyn scene on the show is why I'm wondering. To me, from the reading the books I couldn't ever imagine book Catelyn praying for Jon to survive.

Obviously GRRM is involved in the show, do they check with him when they add little bits like that?

The TV show is not book-canon. They are two separate canons. And I agree, book-Catelyn doesn't give a flying fuck about Jon Snow and would never pray for his survival or any such bollocks.


The showrunners do consult GRRM from time to time, but they ultimately have veto power. They were even warned by GRRM about some characters the showrunners killed off having plot elements in later books, such as Marillion being executed by Joffrey (when he's still alive in A Storm of Swords and has an important role at the Eyrie), and Mago (a Dothraki warrior) returning in The Winds of Winter (killed by Khal Drogo in S1), but they still kept their decisions.

 

[Forsaken82]

The TV show is not book-canon. They are two separate canons. And I agree, book-Catelyn doesn't give a flying fuck about Jon Snow and would never pray for his survival or any such bollocks.

Say what you will about Catelyn, but I actually loved that scene in the show. Sure, nothing in the book makes sense, but likewise, there is nothing in the book to state that she never once attempted to show compassion to him.

She flat out states on the show that she hated him from the moment he was brought home and wished death upon him which is essentially the Catelyn we know from the book, but why is it hard to believe that she may have at one time tried to love him? I love the aspect of her thinking all of this happening to her family is because she couldn't keep her promise to love Jon Snow. it adds a nice layer of humanity to her character and makes her turn into lady stoneheart even more tragic i think.

It isn't like we spend a whole lot of time with them together in the books. We get her yelling at him when he says Goodbye to Bran before leaving the wall and thats about it... she never really has any moment of vulnerability in the book where that piece of information would make sense (she never spoke to Jeyne in the books like she speaks to Talisa if I recall correctly Please correct me if im wrong )

 

[HK-47]

Say what you will about Catelyn, but I actually loved that scene in the show. Sure, nothing in the book makes sense, but likewise, there is nothing in the book to state that she never once attempted to show compassion to him.

She flat out states on the show that she hated him from the moment he was brought home and wished death upon him which is essentially the Catelyn we know from the book, but why is it hard to believe that she may have at one time tried to love him? I love the aspect of her thinking all of this happening to her family is because she couldn't keep her promise to love Jon Snow. it adds a nice layer of humanity to her character and makes her turn into lady stoneheart even more tragic i think.

It isn't like we spend a whole lot of time with them together in the books. We get her yelling at him when he says Goodbye to Bran before leaving the wall and thats about it... she never really has any moment of vulnerability in the book where that piece of information would make sense (she never spoke to Jeyne in the books like she speaks to Talisa if I recall correctly Please correct me if im wrong )

Cat already had plenty of humanity. Her unfair judgement of Jon was one of the interesting things about her character

 

[Wh0 N0se]

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the scene, was just surprised at it. It's funny her hating him when it's pretty likely that he's not even Ned's son.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I love the aspect of her thinking all of this happening to her family is because she couldn't keep her promise to love Jon Snow.

Well, I guess you "love" it, I thought it was stupid and nonsensical and only made TV-Catelyn more annoying. *shrugs*

it adds a nice layer of humanity

No it doesn't. WTF