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Breaking: Israel launches Operation Protective Edge against Hamas in Gaza

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TarNaru33

Banned
Ok, lemme try and explain from my point of view.

3 Israelie teenagers go missing on the 12th of June, this causes Netanyahu (PM) to blame Hamas for this abduction and quickly after that the White House confirms the statement of the PM. However, organizations like Hamas etc always publicly claim attacks or actions, but this time they have denied all involvement with this abduction.

The media has since labeled the Hamas accusations as a fact. What follows is the burning of 16 year old Palestinian boy, while he is still alive, which was supposedly done by several Israeli fanatics.

Edit: Amjad's earlier posted article describes my ideas about the situation as well. http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2014/07/0...&hq_e=el&hq_m=3288693&hq_l=13&hq_v=e0a2a63d45

Bold isn't true, there are times (you can easily find yourself) where terror organizations denied credit for things they have done. Usually they deny it when they know it will result in a complete loss of sympathy from others, other than their hardliners when it comes to retaliation.

I.E: Al Qaeda (Osama Bin Laden) denied credit for 9/11 until years after the invasion... Why? Because he knew taking credit at that period of time would definitely result in his and his organization's death. He was trying to use the legal system to delay any form of retaliation and knew that how difficult it would be to prove that he caused it in court.

Just because terrorist organizations tend to be out of touch with reality, don't mean they are completely stupid, they will using legal systems to their if possible benefit.

No... I see no reason for Hamas to take responsibility for the deaths of those teens considering it would mean what I said above.

Utterly ridiculous. Israel has enough firepower to destroy the entire Arab world. And that's not even counting their nuclear capability.

What does there being "3 times more arabs in Egypt alone then there are Jews in the world" have to do with anything at all? That's like justifying that Jains be allowed to take out Hindus or Tibetans be allowed to take out the Chinese because they are a minority.

If "Palestinian" is a contrived label, then by your same idiotic logic, so is "Israel". You also just inferred that Israeli Arabs aren't really Israelis.

From a military perspective, this isn't true. When he said there are 3 times more Arabs in Egypt he was referring to military applications. Wave tactics, while heavy in loss, is still something that can and will be used by inferior forces that have the number advantage. See Korean War.

Yeah but I think the MIT professor is the best authority on this:



http://www.npr.org/2014/07/09/330183774/the-rockets-from-hamas-and-the-iron-dome-that-could-use-patching

Edit: This part is ridiculous:



Gaza is incredibly dense and even he reluctantly acknowledges that earlier in the interview. More excuses to justify why Israel uses an army to handle crimes rather than operate with swat teams and root out who they want. Does the U.S. use air force against majority black neighborhoods if a white man dies and a black is believed to be responsible? I find it amazing how people do whatever it takes to blame the weaker side especially when the other side has more resources to handle the matter properly.

So, one guy is how we are going to determine the success rate of the Dome? Do you know how he came to his conclusion? Because the Iron Dome is programmed to intercept mainly "threatening" projectiles I am pretty sure. There are multiple sources claiming different success rates from the 5% you mentioned to 70% to 90%.

But then, I would say each source seems to be using different definitions for successful "intercept".
Some use:

Disarms missile by knocking off it's trajectory
Some use, full on destruction of the warhead of the intercepted projectile
And then some use interceptions as disarming projectile

There is a major difference, though. Whenever the international community (i.e. the UN) has tried to do anything to the detriment of Israel, it has always been vetoed by the US. The same has not been the case for Palestinians.

Considering General Assembly resolutions are not legally binding (and can pass whether U.S votes no or yes), I am going to assume you mean Security Council resolutions.

Can you source me when the UN have made resolutions against just Palestinians that were allowed to go through? Majority, if not all of the resolutions passed against Palestinians (including PLO and Hamas) typically condemned Israel as well. The resolutions U.S typically vetoed in the past were ones condemning Israel only as if they were the only one's in the wrong at the time the resolutions was made.

There are resolutions that U.S has allowed through and even voted for when it comes to condemning and ordering Israel to stop what they are doing, so your second sentence is false lol.
 

ramuh

Member
The retaliation was the burning alive of a Palestinian kid, followed by a beating of his relative. The latter got more news coverage because he also happened to be American.

So the firing of rockets is retaliation. Isn't the airstrikes a retaliation in kind? And what should be Israel initial retaliation for the murdering of three innocent Jewish people?
 
I doubt that. They have Air Force, Navy, tanks, heavy weaponry, state of the art armor and automatic weapons, sophisticated Missile defense systems, a full standing army with command and control, even nuclear capability, along with billions in our taxpayer money sent to them every year. Besides that, a complete and utter control of US Congress, western politicians and a highly biased mainstream media on their side. There is no way you can even presume to think you are marginalized. If you do, you should be in a mental asylum.

Yeah, which makes me wonder why they can't go all out espionage to eliminate Hamas members. Given their technology they could easily just route out key members without resorting to a missile to do it and risk hurting innocent civilians.

There was talk of finding a solution to this - if anything, haven't the past few decades proven what does *not* work? Because I don't think firing more missiles back into Gaza is working.
 

TarNaru33

Banned
Yeah, which makes me wonder why they can't go all out espionage to eliminate Hamas members. Given their technology they could easily just route out key members without resorting to a missile to do it and risk hurting innocent civilians.

There was talk of finding a solution to this - if anything, haven't the past few decades proven what does *not* work? Because I don't think firing more missiles back into Gaza is working.

um... Israel has been doing this lol. It is definitely not favored among the international community and there is a limit to how far they can go with this.
 
From a military perspective, this isn't true. When he said there are 3 times more Arabs in Egypt he was referring to military applications. Wave tactics, while heavy in loss, is still something that can and will be used by inferior forces that have the number advantage. See Korean War.

The difference being that Americans were not trying to annihilate all Koreans. Israel will wipe out all Arabs if it comes down to it.

Considering General Assembly resolutions are not legally binding (and can pass whether U.S votes no or yes), I am going to assume you mean Security Council resolutions.

Can you source me when the UN have made resolutions against just Palestinians that were allowed to go through? Majority, if not all of the resolutions passed against Palestinians (including PLO and Hamas) typically condemned Israel as well. The resolutions U.S typically vetoed in the past were ones condemning Israel only as if they were the only one's in the wrong at the time the resolutions was made.

There are resolutions that U.S has allowed through and even voted for when it comes to condemning and ordering Israel to stop what they are doing, so your second sentence is false lol.

Do you even know what "detriment" means? The US has never voted for resolutions to the detriment of Israel, meaning something that would be a net loss for Israel.

There was one resolution that was brought up against the Palestinian Authority that passed, resolution 1435.

And most of the times, Israel HAS been the only one who has been wrong. Especially with regards to settlements.
 
To all of those posters who made snide remarks about the video I posted from IDF's channel showing an airstrike being called off due to human shields: Here is a Hamas spokesperson confirming that what was purported to have occurred in that video really did occur: the human shield method is being employed and is at least sometimes effective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ6S0-o3uFI
 

JordanN

Banned
It´s the other way around. It´s the Palestinians who are defending themselves against Israeli occupation. Israel is the aggressor.
Only in the West Bank where stupid illegal settlers attack them, Palestinians are allowed to fight.

Gaza however, has jack all reason to attack Israel. Like none. Israel has done the deed and gave all of the Gaza Strip to the Palestinians in 2005.

I don't care about any blockade.There are no IDF soldiers or settlers in Gaza to tell Palestinians how to live anymore. Palestinians should not abuse this peace offer Israel did for them.

Also, Hamas has no presence in the West Bank. They're not responsible for what happens there. They have zero reason to fight Israel other than their antisemitic agenda. Hamas needs to go and Israel is free to remove them anytime they continue to pose a threat to them.
 

AmyS

Member
Another Gaza documentary: http://youtu.be/ets-cjSFgno

But then @ 19:50 in that video, I had to do a double-take. With all of the death and destruction on both sides, a Palestinian kid is playing one of the Metal Slug games in an arcade.

I've only played Metal Slug emulated in MAME.
 

Vindicator

Member
Yesterday an old woman died by a heart attack while running to a bomb shelter.

So that would be the first Israeli victim, in case I missed it be mentioned here already.

Yellow press article though...
 

squidyj

Member
Only in the West Bank where stupid illegal settlers attack them, Palestinians are allowed to fight.

Gaza however, has jack all reason to attack Israel. Like none. Israel has done the deed and gave all of the Gaza Strip to the Palestinians in 2005.

I don't care about any blockade.There are no IDF soldiers or settlers in Gaza to tell Palestinians how to live anymore. Palestinians should not abuse this peace offer Israel did for them.

Also, Hamas has no presence in the West Bank. They're not responsible for what happens there. They have zero reason to fight Israel other than their antisemitic agenda. Hamas needs to go and Israel is free to remove them anytime they continue to pose a threat to them.

then why are you worth talking to?
 

TarNaru33

Banned
The difference being that Americans were not trying to annihilate all Koreans. Israel will wipe out all Arabs if it comes down to it.

I was referring to when the Chinese overwhelmed the U.N and U.S forces through sheer numbers and push. They weren't even armed properly.

I find your last sentence waaay extreme... lol

Do you even know what "detriment" means? The US has never voted for resolutions to the detriment of Israel, meaning something that would be a net loss for Israel.

There was one resolution that was brought up against the Palestinian Authority that passed, resolution 1435.

And most of the times, Israel HAS been the only one who has been wrong. Especially with regards to settlements.

Except U.S has let through resolutions that stopped Israel in it's place... I would say that is pretty detrimental. Here is one such resolution for example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_446

Here is one U.S voted for:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_509

You can not tell me these resolutions are not "detrimental". I am pretty certain Israel view them as detrimental. U.S abstention is the same as it voting against Israeli interest. It is only politics that make them abstain rather than vote yes.

Anyways, I do not recall a resolution by the SC to do something more than word justice for U.S to veto. The only embargo proposed was through the general assembly... which as I said, is not legally binding.

See the Negroponte doctrine, which U.S adopted and stood true to.

Did you read the resolution that you just stated? Because I fail to see how it is specifically against Palestinian Authority... It only tells them to "bring responsible terrorists to justice". It also tells Israel to back off.
 

KanyeEast

Banned
" I could have annihilated all the jews , but i left some of them to let you know why i was annihilating them ! " Adolf Hitler.

Do i feel anger towards the jews? Yes
Do i understand them? No
They are doing the same shit that has been done to them.
 

MacNille

Banned
" I could have annihilated all the jews , but i left some of them to let you know why i was annihilating them ! " Adolf Hitler.

Do i feel anger towards the jews? Yes
Do i understand them? No
They are doing the same shit that has been done to them.

Oh jesus fuck, not "Israel is the new Nazi!" again. It shows you know jack fucking shit about Israel and what crimes the Nazi did. They are NOT THE SAME.
 

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
" I could have annihilated all the jews , but i left some of them to let you know why i was annihilating them ! " Adolf Hitler.

Do i feel anger towards the jews? Yes
Do i understand them? No
They are doing the same shit that has been done to them.

This has nothing to do with a person being Jewish.
Jewish people (Israeli or not) are some of the most vehemently protesting against what the Israeli government is doing to Palestinians. This does however have everything to do with religious extremism and right-wing nationalism coming together in the most horrid way.

edit: also hate to break it to you, but I think you might be a racist.
 
" I could have annihilated all the jews , but i left some of them to let you know why i was annihilating them ! " Adolf Hitler.

.

Z0kqP.png


damn that post is racist as fuck.
 

KanyeEast

Banned
This has nothing to do with a person being Jewish.
Jewish people (Israeli or not) are some of the most vehemently protesting against what the Israeli government is doing to Palestinians. This does however have everything to do with religious extremism and right-wing nationalism coming together in the most horrid way.
Read this. It's the people who live on stolen land that are the racists.http://www.vox.com/2014/7/11/5880707/price-tag-israeli-settlers/in/5655640

edit: For the people who are calling me racist. Jews are not a race. They are people who are following a religion.
 
" I could have annihilated all the jews , but i left some of them to let you know why i was annihilating them ! " Adolf Hitler.

Do i feel anger towards the jews? Yes
Do i understand them? No
They are doing the same shit that has been done to them.

Seriously, let's NOT
Fuck off
 

Terra

Member
" I could have annihilated all the jews , but i left some of them to let you know why i was annihilating them ! " Adolf Hitler.

Wow!
This nazi shit does not belong on NeoGAF. Scumbag. Hope you get a life time ban.

Now, on another note. Are things escalating still? At least that´s the impression I get from reading Haaretz.
121 killed in Gaza now =(.
 
The IDF has failed to provide an explanation for that attack, though it offered one for the bombardment of a mosque: "there were rockets stored inside"
We really need reporters verifying this stuff as the IDF said this when they bombed a mosque in 09 and not a single weapon was found among the rubble. There were plenty of bodies though.
 

Terra

Member
The IDF has failed to provide an explanation for that attack, though it offered one for the bombardment of a mosque: "there were rockets stored inside"
We really need reporters verifying this stuff as the IDF said this when they bombed a mosque in 09 and not a single weapon was found among the rubble. There were plenty of bodies though.

Exactly this! Transparency and verified reports seem to be a rare thing nowadays, sadly.

Everything you come across on the internet seems so biased towards one side or the other. That is a problem, at least for me as a "neutral european" that just wants information about what is happening.
 

LNBL

Member
It seems like there's been two separate incidents like this. The attack the Telegraph reported happened in Beit Lahiya, Al Jazeera is reporting "three handicapped children and a nurse were killed in the bombing of the NGO, Mercy Givers for Handicaps, in Jebaliya."
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/gaza-toll-soars-as-israeli-raids-continue-2014711223618373857.html
As per the logic of several posters who dismiss the thought of Israel not caring about civilian deaths, i'm sure they were warned by a nice pamphlet or siren which gave them 30 seconds to rub. It's a fucking disgrace, the idf slams the statement of there being rockets at this places on all these bomb sites and they surely won't allow an objective investigation into these statements.

Atleast 121 killed of which only 8 are known as Palestinian fighters. 25 children of which 6 in one family.
 

Costia

Member
As per the logic of several posters who dismiss the thought of Israel not caring about civilian deaths, i'm sure they were warned by a nice pamphlet or siren which gave them 30 seconds to rub. It's a fucking disgrace, the idf slams the statement of there being rockets at this places on all these bomb sites and they surely won't allow an objective investigation into these statements.

not pamphlets - a warning shot at the roof with a loud but low damage explosive. After which the building is being watched by a drone to make sure it was evacuated and if it wasn't - the actual bombing is called off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTArVIHDelg
 

Chariot

Member
not pamphlets - a warning shot at the roof with a loud but low damage explosive. After which the building is being watched by a drone to make sure it was evacuated and if it wasn't - the actual bombing is called off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTArVIHDelg
People stated already, that this or the call come regulary and sometimes they don't wait for anyone to come out and only 15 seconds of time before they fire.

You don't think the thousands of dead civilians just ran into a rocket on purpose, yes?
 
not pamphlets - a warning shot at the roof with a loud but low damage explosive. After which the building is being watched by a drone to make sure it was evacuated and if it wasn't - the actual bombing is called off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTArVIHDelg
This video was denounced as IDF propaganda when I posted it. Then when I posted a video of a Hamas spokesperson vouching for its authenticity, suddenly everyone ignored me.


Of course, sometimes this method doesn't work and sometimes they make mistakes. The number of targets hit now stretches into the thousands. Every civilian death is senseless, tragic and meaningless, but it simply isn't fair to paint Israel as wholly responsible, nor uncaring. They do more than most armies to avoid civilian deaths (as noted by objective sources such as a high up member of the British military) and so far have acted fully in line with international laws in terms of operating in populated areas. The death toll would otherwise be incomprehensibly high, (something Hamas, by sending civilians to stand on rooftops of buildings full of rockets and used as command centers for terror attacks, would love).
 
People stated already, that this or the call come regulary and sometimes they don't wait for anyone to come out and only 15 seconds of time before they fire.

You don't think the thousands of dead civilians just ran into a rocket on purpose, yes?
By thousands you mean about 100, an undetermined number of whom were militants and an undetermined number voluntarily did exactly what you said by returning to buildings that had already received warnings to evacuate.
 

Costia

Member
People stated already, that this or the call come regulary and sometimes they don't wait for anyone to come out and only 15 seconds of time before they fire.

You don't think the thousands of dead civilians just ran into a rocket on purpose, yes?

I don't have to "think" . You can see it in the video... Dozens of people going on the roof and inside the targeted building on purpose.
 

Chariot

Member
By thousands you mean about 100, an undetermined number of whom were militants and an undetermined number voluntarily did exactly what you said by returning to buildings that had already received warnings to evacuate.
I believe someone posted somewhere in this thread a long list of UN analysis of the deathtolls.
I don't have to propose. You can see it in the video... Dozens of people going on the roof and inside the targeted building on purpose.
I am, sorry, I didn't really see much in the video - this is not spite, this is bad eye sight. In only recognized people going out.

But anyways, the citizens can't do much against people forcing them to go there. If someone takes a hostage you, don't just say "fuck it" and shoot anyway.
 
I believe someone posted somewhere in this thread a long list of UN analysis of the deathtolls.
Unless they arrived at a figure tenfold what this poster claims, he/she is talking out of his/her Hamashole.

Edit: regarding taking hostages - this might be the case sometimes. But many are doing so voluntarily. You can see this in the video with the Hamas spokesperson, and there is Hamas literature all over Gaza encouraging people to become human shields (not forcing them). It's not unthinkable that the families of terrorists, whose houses are often targeted not just because of their owner but because they are used to hold ammo and stage meetings, would choose to stand on the roof.
 

LNBL

Member
By thousands you mean about 100, an undetermined number of whom were militants and an undetermined number voluntarily did exactly what you said by returning to buildings that had already received warnings to evacuate.


100 in the current incident, but the world will not forget the deaths of the ones that came before this conflict.

And regarding that video, it has nothing to do with the article i was replying to. The article that states a HOSPITAL was attacked, which mind you is not even allowed by right during wars.
 

Chariot

Member
Fair enough.
But the point still remains that Israel willingly kills people they know are innocent. Here we get to the means and the end.

Unless they arrived at a figure tenfold what this poster claims, he/she is talking out of his/her Hamashole.
Yo, please refrain from insults. Maybe I jsut saw the numbers in the wrong context and it's my fault. Don't just badmouth people.
Few days ago there was a video shown of some Hamas commandos running on the beaches of Israel while they were getting blasted by the IDF like it was a video game.

The footage was surreal.

Not sure if posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrLI3S4n4w4

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=10a_1404902393
I don't know much about the incident, so I dont want to get to fast, but there it says that they intended to attack the village.
 

King_Moc

Banned
This video was denounced as IDF propaganda when I posted it. Then when I posted a video of a Hamas spokesperson vouching for its authenticity, suddenly everyone ignored me.


Of course, sometimes this method doesn't work and sometimes they make mistakes. The number of targets hit now stretches into the thousands. Every civilian death is senseless, tragic and meaningless, but it simply isn't fair to paint Israel as wholly responsible, nor uncaring. They do more than most armies to avoid civilian deaths (as noted by objective sources such as a high up member of the British military) and so far have acted fully in line with international laws in terms of operating in populated areas. The death toll would otherwise be incomprehensibly high, (something Hamas, by sending civilians to stand on rooftops of buildings full of rockets and used as command centers for terror attacks, would love).

Well, you've convinced me, Israel is brilliant! FFS.
 

Costia

Member
I believe someone posted somewhere in this thread a long list of UN analysis of the deathtolls.I am, sorry, I didn't really see much in the video - this is not spite, this is bad eye sight. In only recognized people going out.

But anyways, the citizens can't do much against people forcing them to go there. If someone takes a hostage you, don't just say "fuck it" and shoot anyway.

They aren't being forced. You assume they are because it wouldn't make any sense to you to go to the roof of a targeted building of your own free will. It's different in the middle east. For them dying while resisting the Israeli's makes them a martyr that's going to go to heaven.
I agree and the IDF agrees as well. If you watch the video you will see that the building wasn't bombed (beyond the warning shot).

Here is another (non idf this time) video where the building was bombed at the end:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaHbogNVoYs

I am from Israel BTW.
 
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