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[Chariot]

Im going to quote myself but I keep seeing people defend the bombardment due to "warnings" given and nobody has given any explanation for what these are for. WTF is the point of the Israeli strikes if they openly warn people to let them escape? Clearly it isn't to kill Hamas so what is it? Collective punishment? Open destruction of property? I mean the only goal seems to be leveling buildings that might have had Hamas in them.

Wasn't it to destroy weapons? They didn't give a warning when they bombed the beach cafe with the world cup watchers of whom one was a suspected Hamas.

 

[Chumly]

Wasn't it to destroy weapons? They didn't give a warning when they bombed the beach cafe with the world cup watchers of whom one was a suspected Hamas.

I would be surprised if they even destroyed any weapons. Can't they move those as well?

 

[Chariot]

I would be surprised if they even destroyed any weapons. Can't they move those as well?

I dunno, that was just the only logical reason that came to my mind. Weapons are way more difficult to move than running away. Can't get many heavy boxes in one minute.

 

[maharg]

Hamas is not on the defensive. They have the unilateral power to end the current conflict by simply not firing rockets.

This is extremely reductive. It is only true if you consider the only component of the conflict to be armed aggression. Occupation and the expansion of the settlements are also forms of aggression, and Hamas (nor the Palestinian people as a whole) has no power to stop those and peaceful opposition to those acts have proven completely fruitless to date.

It's not even clear that there is any force in Gaza that Israel would ever recognize that could potentially control Hamas and get them to de-escalate. The situation is a classic catch-22 for Gaza and it seems insane to suggest that Israel is powerless in ending the violence.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Looters strip Gaza greenhouses

It says 30% of the Greenhouses were damaged, not that they completely destroyed the entire site. The acting leader of the Palestinian people was quoted and sounded furious about the "chaos" of the looting. On top of that, Palestine was hoping to use the Greenhouses to sell crops, which Israel would never allow due to the insane trade restrictions they impose. Move on, this singular story from almost a decade ago is not indicative of their entire culture.

Im going to quote myself but I keep seeing people defend the bombardment due to "warnings" given and nobody has given any explanation for what these are for. WTF is the point of the Israeli strikes if they openly warn people to let them escape? Clearly it isn't to kill Hamas so what is it? Collective punishment? Open destruction of property? I mean the only goal seems to be leveling buildings that might have had Hamas in them.

All of the above. They do it to continually and systematically demoralize the Palestinian population. A constant reminder that they are truly in charge, and to try and deter children from growing up to support Hamas. Israel's biggest fear is Palestine fighting them on equal footing.

 

[Quotient]

So Hamas is reacting to Israeki aggresion. Good, that's our starting point.

Of course Hamas is scum for just firing anywhere on Israel willingly getting civilians hurt and then taking other palestinensi as meat shield.
But just because Hamas are palestinensi doesen't mean that palestinensi are Hamas. Israel is fighting the symptons, not the cause of these. And by willingly hitting civilans they help the Hamas get new recruits filled with hate for those who directly killed their own. Plus the world isn't particulary euphoric about the dead children, disabled and helpers.
Israel has to stop illegal settlements and leave Westbank alone. They take peoples lives, even without rockets. Stopping the illegal settlements is the first step.

Agreed. I have other points but I am away from desktop and typing on mobile is a pain.

 

[Dead Man]

Hamas is not on the defensive. They have the unilateral power to end the current conflict by simply not firing rockets.

That's... that's not how one determines if a party is on he defensive :/

 

[norealmx]

There was a sizable pro-Palestina demonstration last Saturday here in Seattle. I couldn't feel anything else than sympathetic.

Seriously, this is the quintessential definition of bullying, it must stop.

 

[Partial Gamification]

It is brutal. Hopefully a ground invasion can be prevented and the aerial bombing ended.

Israel appeared to hold off on a threatened escalation of its week-old Gaza Strip barrage on Monday despite balking at Western calls for a ceasefire with an equally defiant Hamas.

On Sunday, the Israeli military had warned residents of the northern border town of Beit Lahiya to leave or risk their lives when, after nightfall, it planned to intensify air strikes against suspected Palestinian rocket sites among civilian homes.

A U.N. aid agency said around a quarter of Beit Lahiya's 70,000 residents fled, fearing Israeli attacks which, according to Gaza officials, have killed more than 166 people, most of them non-combatants, since the cross-border shelling war began.
[...]
While allowing that a diplomatic solution could eventually be found, the official said Israel would, for now, pursue its military offensive "to restore quiet over a protracted period by inflicting significant damage to Hamas and the other terrorist groups in the Gaza Strip".

Hamas and Islamic Jihad, the second-most potent Gaza faction, made clear they would not accept a mere "calm for calm" where both Palestinian fighters and Israeli forces stand down.

"Netanyahu began this crazy war and he must end his war first," Hamas leader Izzat Al-Reshiq told Al-Arabiya television.

"There can be no ceasefire unless the conditions of the Resistance are met," he added, saying Israel had to stop blockading Gaza and free hundreds of Palestinians it rounded up in the occupied West Bank last month while searching for three Jewish seminary students who it said were kidnapped by Hamas.
[...]
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/13/us-palestinians-israel-idUSKBN0FI04420140713

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

And here we go.

Synagogues attacked in Paris during protest march

Thousands of people marched in Paris on Sunday to protest Israel’s Operation Protective Edge which has left over 160 Palestinians dead, most of them civilians. Some demonstrators clashed with police and attacked a synagogue.

Around 10,000 protesters walked peacefully through central Paris. They carried a large banner saying: "Total Support for the Struggle of the Palestinian People,” according to AP.

The demonstration turned violent at the end of the march on Bastille Square when some protesters started throwing projectiles at police officers, who in turn responded with tear gas, AFP reported.

Police also blocked off a group of protesters from entering two synagogues, according to AP. One of the synagogues was attacked during a service, with worshippers briefly blocked inside. Police successfully pushed back the protesters, and those stuck inside were then able to leave, according to a police spokeswoman.

One of the people trapped in the synagogue told Israel’s Channel 2 News that protesters threw stones and bricks at the building “like it was an intifada,” The Times of Israel reported.

 

[LNBL]

And here we go.

Synagogues attacked in Paris during protest march

Did not see you post links on reports of peacefull demonstrations in The hague, London, Bradford, Detroit, NYC, DC or any of the other places. The media likes to avoid reporting on these peacefull marches and only pick up the ugly ones.

 

[commedieu]

Did not see you post links on reports of peacefull demonstrations in The hague, London, Bradford, Detroit, NYC, DC or any of the other places. The media likes to avoid reporting on these peacefull marches and only pick up the ugly ones.

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/?hpt=sitenav

this is sad.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Did not see you post links on reports of peacefull demonstrations in The hague, London, Bradford, Detroit, NYC, DC or any of the other places. The media likes to avoid reporting on these peacefull marches and only pick up the ugly ones.

Actually, the link I posted mentions the peaceful protest in Lille.

 

[GYODX]

And here we go.

Synagogues attacked in Paris during protest march

What better way to show the world that you're not an antisemitic piece of shit than by attacking Jews thousands of miles away who have nothing to do with what's happening in Israel.

Did not see you post links on reports of peacefull demonstrations in The hague, London, Bradford, Detroit, NYC, DC or any of the other places. The media likes to avoid reporting on these peacefull marches and only pick up the ugly ones.

Demonstrably false.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

 

[LNBL]

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/?hpt=sitenav

this is sad.

What am I looking for in this link?

It was the "and here we go" remark that made me react. Came across as if he expected things to escalate based on something. Maybe i'm reading to much in it at 04:11 am

 

[commedieu]

What am I looking for in this link?

It was the "and here we go" remark that made me react. Came across as if he expected things to escalate based on something. Maybe i'm reading to much in it at 04:11 am

Anything about the protests...

 

[LNBL]

Anything about the protests...

Remark was mainly aimed at organizations as the BBC who failed to report on the thousands of people demonstrating in London and several Dutch news organizations which have been very biased in their reporting.

 

[dripdripsplash]

Sometimes when the discussion goes on and gets heated we forget what's most important. The lifes of those lost.

Here is a list of the 183 Palestinians, Including Whole Families, Killed Since Tuesday

These are the names that have been confirmed by medical sources in Gaza. More than a thousand Palestinians have also been wounded, with some losing limbs and others disabled for life. The majority of the wounded are children, according to the Ministry of Health. All of the casualties listed below are victims of Israeli bombs dropped on Gaza since Tuesday July 8th.

This is 4-year old Sahar Salman Abu Namous before and after his death. (NSFW)

Here is the video I shared before of his father weeping at his dead body.

"Wake up son, wake up and see the toy I got you" (NSFW)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152580129791926

 

[captainnapalm]

It's crazy how people try to argue for Israel's right to retaliate against Hamas by launching brutal bombing campaigns, but Hamas is not allowed to retaliate to decades of oppression and far higher levels of casualties.

I think we can all agree Hamas should not be targeting civilians by using rocket fire, but the fact is Israel commits far more atrocities and terror against the Palestinians than what is done in the reverse - as we're seeing now in Gaza for the third time in five years for a total of more than 1000 civilian deaths.

If you try and defend what Israel does in Gaza, you are no better than someone who tries to defend suicide bombings in Israel - worse in fact, because as military occupiers, Israel has a far weaker claim to retaliation than those being occupied. And yet the US government does exactly that.

 

[Quotient]

So Hamas is reacting to Israeki aggresion. Good, that's our starting point.

Of course Hamas is scum for just firing anywhere on Israel willingly getting civilians hurt and then taking other palestinensi as meat shield.
But just because Hamas are palestinensi doesen't mean that palestinensi are Hamas. Israel is fighting the symptons, not the cause of these. And by willingly hitting civilans they help the Hamas get new recruits filled with hate for those who directly killed their own. Plus the world isn't particulary euphoric about the dead children, disabled and helpers.
Israel has to stop illegal settlements and leave Westbank alone. They take peoples lives, even without rockets. Stopping the illegal settlements is the first step.

I personally am against Hamas. Their agenda is not the same as the rest of Palestinians, and their actions have never been for the good of the people.

From the very beginning of Israel's independence till today, the Palestinian people have suffered, whether at the hands of their arab neighbor war(s) against Israel, or Israeli settlement expansion and harassment, or by their own leadership and fanatic muslim extremists who are happy to take advantage of the Israel-Palestinian situation.

Israel has the upper hand - economically, militarily and politically. They have no incentive to stop the settlements (something i oppose), and with all of the major powers supporting Israel's right to defend itself against rocket attacks, the Palestinian people are stuck between a rock and a very hard place.

Their resistance hasn't worked, it has stopped settlement expanisions, it hasn't brought them any closer to peace, and instead as resulted in the death of women and children, both at the hands of the Israeli's and the various Palestinian factions.

Every nation has the right to defend itself, as does Israel and Hamas, but this war is one sided with the Palestinians taking the most carnage. At this point, i don't think there is much left for the Palestinians then to just disarm and accept any borders that Israel will accept. If these skirmishes continue, Palestinians will lose more lives and have less land.

Its really unfortunate, no one cares for the Palestinians, no one, not even their own Arab/Muslim brothers. They are alone and need to realize that Israel will not back down and just try and make the best peace plan they can.

Oh, Hamas needs to disarm, Israel will never, never accept a Palestinian with Hamas.

 

[maharg]

At this point, i don't think there is much left for the Palestinians then to just disarm and accept any borders that Israel will accept. If these skirmishes continue, Palestinians will lose more lives and have less land.

What would these borders Israel will accept even be? They clearly do not accept the original partition plan, and they have done nothing but expand into the former mandate, whether during relative peace or all-out war. Israel has the power to accept and enforce a border any time they want, but there seems to be little political will to do so.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

It's crazy how people try to argue for Israel's right to retaliate against Hamas by launching brutal bombing campaigns, but Hamas is not allowed to retaliate to decades of oppression and far higher levels of casualties.

I think we can all agree Hamas should not be targeting civilians by using rocket fire, but the fact is Israel commits far more atrocities and terror against the Palestinians than what is done in the reverse - as we're seeing now in Gaza for the third time in five years for a total of more than 1000 civilian deaths.

If you try and defend what Israel does in Gaza, you are no better than someone who tries to defend suicide bombings in Israel - worse in fact, because as military occupiers, Israel has a far weaker claim to retaliation than those being occupied. And yet the US government does exactly that.

All Hamas will ever accomplish is provoke a more violent response every single time, the Palestinians don't need Hamas, they need to figure out how to coexist with Israel and deal with this reality, something that might improve over time but will never change in the way they want. It's like bringing a knife to a gun fight except it's a butter knife, and the ones doing the provoking are using you as a human shield, and Israel doesn't care anymore. It's not about arguing whether the Israelis belong there, they're there and they're not moving, and you can't make them, the Palestinians need to focus on how to improve their everyday quality of living for the sake of their family and for the sake of their children, by working with Israel, as much as they hate this, they havr no friends in the region, the Arab nations are just using them, it's sad but true.

 

[commedieu]

Remark was mainly aimed at organizations as the BBC who failed to report on the thousands of people demonstrating in London and several Dutch news organizations which have been very biased in their reporting.

I first got news of the protests from gaf -- wasn't making headlines places like cnn/fox news down here. Thats all I meant, not coming at you at all.

 

[Quotient]

What would these borders Israel will accept even be? They clearly do not accept the original partition plan, and they have done nothing but expand into the former mandate, whether during relative peace or all-out war. Israel has the power to accept and enforce a border any time they want, but there seems to be little political will to do so.

Let Israel decide on the borders. What other choice do the Palestinian people have right now?

There has been political will in the past - Oslo Accord is one, and the Israel did withdraw from Gaza.

 

[Quotient]

All Hamas will ever accomplish is provoke a more violent response every single time, the Palestinians don't need Hamas, they need to figure out how to coexist with Israel and deal with this reality, something that might improve over time but will never change in the way they want. It's like bringing a knife to a gun fight except it's a butter knife, and the ones doing the provoking are using you as a human shield, and Israel doesn't care anymore. It's not about arguing whether the Israelis belong there, they're there and they're not moving, and you can't make them, the Palestinians need to focus on how to improve their everyday quality of living for the sake of their family and for the sake of their children, by working with Israel, as much as they hate this, they havr no friends in the region, the Arab nations are just using them, it's sad but true.

You just need to look at the countries who give aid to Palestinian to see that their Arab/Muslim brothers don't give a shit about their plights besides as propaganda against Israel. Don't get me wrong Iran and Syria care, enough to supply them with weapons.

 

[maharg]

Let Israel decide on the borders. What other choice do the Palestinian people right now?

There has been political will in the past - Oslo Accord is one, and the Israel did withdraw from Gaza.

This isn't really an answer. You're basically asking for the Palestinians to give up everything in the hopes that Israel will be benevolent. You can perhaps imagine why that would be a hard sell at this point. But I'm legitimately asking you what you think those borders Israel would offer up in that case would be at this point. Not in 1993, but now.

And afaik, Oslo didn't stop settlement activity. There have been brief pauses, but without any serious commitment from Israel backed by some kind of threat of international rebuke (which effectively can't happen because of US veto), the fate of settlement expansion, even when paused, is basically at the whim of the next election. That's not a solid foundation for lasting peace.

 

[JordanN]

What would these borders Israel will accept even be? They clearly do not accept the original partition plan, and they have done nothing but expand into the former mandate, whether during relative peace or all-out war. Israel has the power to accept and enforce a border any time they want, but there seems to be little political will to do so.

Uh, what? You got it the other way around. Israel accepted the 1947 borders, not the Palestinians.

 

[Quotient]

This isn't really an answer. You're basically asking for the Palestinians to give up everything in the hopes that Israel will be benevolent. You can perhaps imagine why that would be a hard sell at this point.

And afaik, Oslo didn't stop settlement activity. There have been brief pauses, but without any serious commitment from Israel backed by some kind of threat of international rebuke (which effectively can't happen because of US veto), the fate of settlement expansion, even when paused, is basically at the whim of the next election. That's not a solid foundation for lasting peace.

Then what is their options?

 

[maharg]

Uh, what? You got it the other way around. Israel accepted the 1947 borders, not the Palestinians.

You might want to note the tense. Unless you're actually suggesting Israel would give back Jerusalem and dismantle all of their settlements in 2014.

 

[GYODX]

Remark was mainly aimed at organizations as the BBC who failed to report on the thousands of people demonstrating in London and several Dutch news organizations which have been very biased in their reporting.

I do not understand this. I can speak three languages, and after reading through the most popular news websites of some of the countries whose language I can understand, I cannot find this pro-Israeli bias that is supposed to be so prevalent.

I will translate some headlines I've seen:

Japan:
Israel inserts special forces into Gaza; fears over full-blown ground invasion
Airstrike hits facility for disabled people in Gaza; Israeli Army prepares for land war
80 Hamas military facilities hit by airstrikes in Gaza
UN Secretary General releases statement calling for self-restraint over the situation in Gaza

Spain:
Israel attacks Gaza
Gaza Strip resigns itself to sustained Israeli offensive
The leftist [Israelis] who do not support Netanyahu protest over the offensive

Argentina:
There are already 135 dead in Gaza: global condemnation and demand for an urgent cease-fire
The UN called on Israel to cease airstrikes on civilian houses

Mexico:
Thousands of Gazan civilians flee in the face of Israeli threats
Death toll rises to 126 due to Israeli offensive in Gaza
Massive exodus in Gaza over Israeli offensive; at least 170 dead

Chile:
Israel amplifies offensive in Gaza as death toll rises to 166
Benjamin Netanyahu blames Hamas over "any accidental civilian death"

Colombia:
Palestine militias fired over 130 rockets at Israel today
Israeli attack kills more Palestinians; fire in Israel caused by rocket

Puerto Rico:
Israel orders Palestinians to evacuate Gaza Strip
Gaza City turned into ghost town
Israel attacks Mosque, death toll rises to 120
Israeli bombardments on Gaza continue

Uruguay:
Massacre "in progress"
Gazan civilians flee in face of Israeli bombardment

I could have kept going, but it was obvious to me at this point that this narrative of some insidious pro-Israeli bias breaks down to basic scrutiny.

 

[JordanN]

You might want to note the tense. Unless you're actually suggesting Israel would give back Jerusalem and dismantle all of their settlements in 2014.

???
It doesn't make sense to bring up the partition plan since from the beginning, Israel did agree to it, not the Palestinians. To say otherwise is revisionist history.
Jerusalem and all the rest of the territories came after that fact. There's no denying modern Israel is still based on partition.

 

[maharg]

???
It doesn't make sense to bring up the partition plan since from the beginning, Israel did agree to it, not the Palestinians. To say otherwise is revisionist history.
Jerusalem and all the rest of the territories came after that fact. There's no denying modern Israel is still based on partition.

So you are saying that if the Palestinians came up with one voice right now and said "Ok, we'll take the 1947 borders!", Israel would accept? And return Jerusalem to an international mandate?

Because if you're not saying that, you're replying to something completely different from what I'm saying. I don't care who agreed to what in 1947, I care about who will agree to what NOW.

 

[speculawyer]

What the fuck is Hamas doing now anyway? They just look pathetic. Your missiles don't do shit and you just look like assholes. Go ahead and complain about Israel but you don't really look any better.

 

[JordanN]

So you are saying that if the Palestinians came up with one voice right now and said "Ok, we'll take the 1947 borders!", Israel would accept? And return Jerusalem to an international mandate?

Because if you're not saying that, you're replying to something completely different from what I'm saying. I don't care who agreed to what in 1947, I care about who will agree to what NOW.

No one can force Israel to give up territories that even the Arabs they went to war with agreed to. Israel is only obligated to give up Gaza, East Jerusalem, and the West Bank by law.

Asking for more is pure stupidity on the Palestinian part, because again, Israel accepted in the past, Palestinians rejected it. It's no longer void.

 

[maharg]

No one can force Israel to give up territories that even the Arabs they went to war with agreed to. Israel is only obligated to give up Gaza, East Jerusalem, and the West Bank by law.

Asking for more is pure stupidity on the Palestinian part, because again, Israel accepted in the past, Palestinians rejected it. It's no longer void.

This is spectacularly irrelevant to anything I'm saying.

Back to relevant things,

Then what is their options?

I think if I knew the answer to this question I'd be on my way to grabbing my Nobel Peace Prize. I'm not even sure there are any options for the Palestinians. They're hemmed in on all corners, and I don't think anything they can do now, including laying down their arms or fighting as hard as they can, will stop what's happening. And that makes me very sad.

 

[JordanN]

This is spectacularly irrelevant to anything I'm saying.

Ok, I'm confused. This is what you said

What would these borders Israel will accept even be? They clearly do not accept the original partition plan

And then I said, no, Israel did accept it and modern Israel is still based on it (but with more territories).

You made this post but it's contradicting.

I don't care who agreed to what in 1947, I care about who will agree to what NOW.

Why bring up the partition? I'm assuming it's because you think Israel needs to go back to pre-1948 war borders (which I explained is not happening).

 

[Partial Gamification]

Then what is their options?

Off the top of my head:

1. Continue with current stalemate in the hope the unequal suffering endured by the Palestinians in this conflict will inspire either international pressure to change Israel positions on issues they are firmly fixed to or also to inspire a larger conflict to again seek the World's attention by inviting massive damage and death.

2. Give up, unconditional surrender. Let Israel dictate terms for all disputes. Who reigns in all the fighters?

3. Come up with a solution that is acceptable and fair -decided by a neutral party elected by both negotiation teams. Can the agreement be enforced?

4. Request to be annexed by the United States. This could be something to get the issue in the newscycle and catalyze the conversation toward a lasting resolution, and arguably validate the Palestinian State if the request was addressed (maybe only by Congress/Department of State). If it was annexed then Israel would be attacking the United States and the United States would be responsible for stopping rocket attacks upon its friendly neighbor. Yes, I realize how crazy it is.

Common goals must be established in the midst of all the violence; past, present, and future. These common goals must be the path through the violence to a safer place for everyone.

 

[maharg]

And then I said, no, Israel did accept it and modern Israel is still based on it

+

(but with more territories).

!= agreement to the 1947 plan.

I'm not even sure what you think you're saying here. Israel, as it currently exists, does not conform to the 1947 plan, and Israel, as it currently exists, would never agree to returning to it. Do you disagree with this? Any of it? And no, it is not conforming to be the plan with a significant change.

Why bring up the partition? I'm assuming it's because you think Israel needs to go back to pre-1948 war borders (which I explained is not happening).

The real question is why bring up what Israel agreed to in 1947 when I'm talking in the present tense, unless you think they'd be willing to agree to it now. Which is just silly. You clearly don't, because you outright say they're not obligated to. So what does any of this have to do with anything, except as some stupid grudge-match blame war that does nothing but enable continuation of the conflict?

And don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say Israel should go back to *any* configuration. I asked what configuration Israel would currently accept and cease expansion from.

 

[TrafalgarLaw]

So why is the world watching on the side-lines while Israel is on a warpath of total annexation? Why aren't the arab countries doing anything? Why does America not condemn this? It's a sad, sad world we live in when we witness structural oppression and genocide on the Palestinians but can't do anything about it.

I don't like Hamas either but those who haven't lost everything wouldn't understand why anyone would align themselves with Hamas. That's what Israel doesn't understand either and Hamas will continue to exist if Israel deems the deaths of a couple of hundreds is justified to get a few Hamas leaders.

 

[JordanN]

I don't like Hamas either but those who haven't lost everything wouldn't understand why anyone would align themselves with Hamas. That's what Israel doesn't understand either and Hamas will continue to exist if Israel deems the deaths of a couple of hundreds is justified to get a few Hamas leaders.

Why should anyone accept Hamas? It's delusion to think anything they do is meant to help everyday Palestinians instead of hurt them.

"but they pay for schools" So? Of course for a terror group, it's in their best interest to appear friendly. Many criminal syndicates have done this before (ex: Al Capone). But the constant war baiting and use of human shields means they really see Palestinians as pawns.

 

[GYODX]

And don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say Israel should go back to *any* configuration. I asked what configuration Israel would currently accept and cease expansion from.

Well, they're not gonna give up East Jerusalem, for one.

And we have precedent from their withdrawal from Gaza that they are willing to remove Jewish settlements from Palestinian land.

 

[Terra Firma]

Why should anyone accept Hamas? It's delusion to think anything they do is meant to help everyday Palestinians instead of hurt them.

"but they pay for schools" So? Of course for a terror group, it's in their best interest to appear friendly. Many criminal syndicates have done this before (ex: Al Capone). But the constant war baiting and use of human shields mean they really see Palestinians as pawns.

You do realize that Israel was also founded on terrorism and there have been terrorists at the helm of the Israeli government after 1948.

 

[TrafalgarLaw]

Why should anyone accept Hamas? It's delusion to think anything they do is meant to help everyday Palestinians instead of hurt them.

If your family members have died because of "collateral damage", your house was demolished in either an attack or a revenge house demolition, if you can't even get some water because the Israeli control the water supply...would you even care what happens to your people? You yourself have lost everything. All you would want to do is get back at the oppressors. It's called revenge.

 

[JordanN]

You do realize that Israel was also founded on terrorism and there have been terrorists at the helm of the Israeli government after 1948.

Israel was founded by the Zionist movement in Europe, who moved to Palestine as early as the 1900s (?) and started buying up land. When Britain took over Palestine from Turkey (because of WW1) restrictions were placed on Jews from migrating there leading to radical zionists focusing on the british armies.

That's not defending the radical zionists of course but Israel has a much more varied history before any terrorism. These same terror groups have been a minority and rarely dictated how the state of Israel should be formed. Any remaining terrorist groups were absorbed or are purely outdated.

No Israeli has bombed Britain in over 50 years. In fact, Israel and Britain actually worked together right after their state was founded (Seuz Crisis).

 

[effzee]

Well, they're not gonna give up East Jerusalem, for one.

And we have precedent from their withdrawal from Gaza that they are willing to remove Jewish settlements from Palestinian land.

Why allow settlements at all?

 

[dude]

Yesterday, friends got beat up during an anti-war protest in Tel Aviv by right-wing activists. I and others got away in time. They broke a chair over a friend of mine.

Just wanted to vent my frustration.

 

[GYODX]

Why allow settlements at all?

I don't know. I wasn't defending or condoning them.

 

[JordanN]

If your family members have died because of "collateral damage", your house was demolished in either an attack or a revenge house demolition, if you can't even get some water because the Israeli control the water supply...would you even care what happens to your people? You yourself have lost everything. All you would want to do is get back at the oppressors. It's called revenge.

That's not revenge. Hamas starts wars, they endanger the Palestinians.

Israel retaliating is them defending themselves. You can't get pissy if Mexico attacked your country tommorow, because you supported a terror group that launched rockets at them first. It's a cycle that goes nowhere.

 

[Partial Gamification]

Yesterday, friends got beat up during an anti-war protest in Tel Aviv by right-wing activists. I and others got away in time. They broke a chair over a friend of mine.

Just wanted to vent my frustration.

I hope everyone heals, sad to hear. Stay safe.

 

[neurosisxeno]

And we have precedent from their withdrawal from Gaza that they are willing to remove Jewish settlements from Palestinian land.

The far-right movement in Israel has ramped up a lot over the past 5 or so years. I highly doubt these days that they would give up a singel inch of land.