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[NullPointer]

Anybody catch this over the weekend?

Netanyahu has stressed often in the past that he doesn’t want Israel to become a binational state — implying that he favors some kind of accommodation with and separation from the Palestinians. But on Friday he made explicit that this could not extend to full Palestinian sovereignty. Why? Because, given the march of Islamic extremism across the Middle East, he said, Israel simply cannot afford to give up control over the territory immediately to its east, including the eastern border — that is, the border between Israel and Jordan, and the West Bank and Jordan.

The priority right now, Netanyahu stressed, was to “take care of Hamas.” But the wider lesson of the current escalation was that Israel had to ensure that “we don’t get another Gaza in Judea and Samaria.” Amid the current conflict, he elaborated, “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan.”

Earlier this spring, Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon sparked a storm in Israel-US ties when he told a private gathering that the US-Kerry-Allen security proposals weren’t worth the paper they were written on. Netanyahu on Friday said the same, and more, in public

Not relinquishing security control west of the Jordan, it should be emphasized, means not giving a Palestinian entity full sovereignty there. It means not acceding to Mahmoud Abbas’s demands, to Barack Obama’s demands, to the international community’s demands. This is not merely demanding a demilitarized Palestine; it is insisting upon ongoing Israeli security oversight inside and at the borders of the West Bank. That sentence, quite simply, spells the end to the notion of Netanyahu consenting to the establishment of a Palestinian state. A less-than-sovereign entity? Maybe, though this will never satisfy the Palestinians or the international community. A fully sovereign Palestine? Out of the question.

He wasn’t saying that he doesn’t support a two-state solution. He was saying that it’s impossible. This was not a new, dramatic change of stance by the prime minister. It was a new, dramatic exposition of his long-held stance.

(Times of Israel: Netanyahu finally speaks his mind)

So we're in the current phase of "take care of Hamas", but whats the real end-game here?

 

[Bel_Air_Jeff]

Anybody catch this over the weekend?


(Times of Israel: Netanyahu finally speaks his mind)

So we're in the current phase of "dealing with Hamas", but whats the real end-game here?

World War III

 

[m_shortpants]

Anybody catch this over the weekend?


(Times of Israel: Netanyahu finally speaks his mind)

So we're in the current phase of "dealing with Hamas", but whats the real end-game here?

Maintain the status quo. Eventually the majority of the West Bank will become settlements.

 

[Linkhero1]

Maintain the status quo. Eventually the majority of the West Bank will become settlements.

Pretty much what's going to happen.

 

[popeutlal]

ABC news did the exact same thing last week.

 

[nib95]

Anybody catch this over the weekend?


(Times of Israel: Netanyahu finally speaks his mind)

So we're in the current phase of "dealing with Hamas", but whats the real end-game here?

This is what most logical people have always alluded to, only now Netanyahu himself is indirectly saying it. It's disgusting, and also further evidence that Israel has never really sought or wanted peace. It was always just dressing. The idea of a liberated, free and fully sovereign Palestine is just not something Israel is interested in. It's why they will find any excuse to shoot down notions of peace, and continue their illegal expansion and settlements. People who fall for the "we're just fighting terrorists" propaganda, are just gullible and short sighted to me. Not capable of seeing the bigger picture.

Israel want to make the possibility of a two state solution as impossible as humanly possible, and this has been clear from the offset. Israel deserves the full detestation of the international community.

 

[Quotient]

...and prior to that Gaza was under Israeli control. What's your point? They went from being controlled and occupied by Israel, to being sieged by Israel.

You do realize that the Egypt also has blocked the border between Gaza and Egypt. There is a level of distrust between Israel and the Palestinians, Hamas haven't done anything to improve that trust. Israel imposed a blockade as they were concerned that Hamas would try and acquire rockets - this past few weeks (years) probably justified to the Israelis that Hamas can never be trusted*. It is also true that Israel hasn't done anything to improve the trust (with the settlements) but Israel has the power and international support and doesn't have to prove anything to the Palestinians.

My point was...i guess i don't know what my point was.

*The Israeli government never trusted Hamas.

 

[maharg]

You do realize that the Egypt also has blocked the border between Gaza and Egypt. There is a level of distrust between Israel and the Palestinians, Hamas haven't done anything to improve that trust. Israel imposed a blockade as they were concerned that Hamas would try and acquire rockets - this past few weeks (years) probably justified to the Israelis that Hamas can never be trusted*. It is also true that Israel hasn't done anything to improve the trust (with the settlements) but Israel has the power and international support and doesn't have to prove anything to the Palestinians.

My point was...i guess i don't know what my point was.

*The Israeli government never trusted Hamas.

Again this line of reasoning seems to assume that the ONLY acts of aggression are ones that involve direct violence. Imposing a blockade and occupying territory and the settlements are all acts of aggression. Hell, they'd be acts of war if Palestine weren't in a weird limbo where it's neither a country nor a dependent territory.

You're basically saying here, in the bolded, that Israel acted aggressively towards Gaza but it's ok because something might have happened in the future. Hamas has to earn all the trust here while Israel continues its acts of aggression against the Palestinians.

Yes, Israel has all the power. And they are abusing it.

 

[nib95]

Israel has the power and international support

Israel has the power, but they certainly don't have the international support. The entire international community is against them, with the exception of the US, as clearly evidenced by the UN resolutions critical to Israel, and the sole US veto's that bail Israel out time and time and again.

Honestly, in the grander sense of things, this has little to do with Hamas. Hamas is probably the best thing Israel could have hoped for. The perfect boogeyman and excuse for them to execute their colonisation plans and continue their brutal occupation and it's expansion.

 

[m_shortpants]

You do realize that the Egypt also has blocked the border between Gaza and Egypt. There is a level of distrust between Israel and the Palestinians, Hamas haven't done anything to improve that trust. Israel imposed a blockade as they were concerned that Hamas would try and acquire rockets - this past few weeks (years) probably justified to the Israelis that Hamas can never be trusted*. It is also true that Israel hasn't done anything to improve the trust (with the settlements) but Israel has the power and international support and doesn't have to prove anything to the Palestinians.

My point was...i guess i don't know what my point was.

*The Israeli government never trusted Hamas.

Without any further obfuscation, my point was that the Palestinians in Gaza have been in a shitty situation for decades.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Anybody catch this over the weekend?


(Times of Israel: Netanyahu finally speaks his mind)

So we're in the current phase of "dealing with Hamas", but whats the real end-game here?

I don't think anybody closely following Netanyahu has ever thought he was doing anything other than attempting to buy time, in the hopes that eventually a solution would present itself that didn't involve establishing another state in the middle east that would be anti-Israel.

From his point of view (and the point of view of many others), as long as Israel is vastly outnumbered and surrounded by powerful countries calling for its dissolution, there is reason to be fearful and overprotective. My personal belief is that if Israel had a partner or two in the middle east, perhaps things would be different. Perhaps Israel would feel safe enough to relinquish its hold on the palestinian territories, knowing the responsibility for cultivating a Palestinian state would be shared by its neighbours.

But from Netanyahu and other right wing supporters' point of view, the events in Syria Egypt, Iraq etc in recent years have only made their fears appear to be more real than ever. I imagine they feel even less safe in their neighbourhood now than they did at the time of the separation from Gaza.

 

[Quotient]

Israel has the power, but they certainly don't have the international support. The entire international community is against them, with the exception of the US, as clearly evidenced by the UN resolutions critical to Israel, and the sole US veto's that bail Israel out time and time and again.

Honestly, in the grander sense of things, this has little to do with Hamas. Hamas is probably the best thing Israel could have hoped for. The perfect boogeyman and excuse for them to execute their colonisation plans and continue their brutal occupation and it's expansion.

If you are referring to the settlements, then yes, the international community is against them. If you referring to the current skirmish, then no, most of the western powers are supporting "Israel's right to defend itself".

Regardless, the international community hasn't done anything, Israel knows this, and with US support, is happy to continue what ever path it decides.

 

[Cromat]

This is what most logical people have always alluded to, only now Netanyahu himself is indirectly saying it. It's disgusting, and also further evidence that Israel has never really sought or wanted peace. It was always just dressing. The idea of a liberated, free and fully sovereign Palestine is just not something Israel is interested in. It's why they will find any excuse to shoot down notions of peace, and continue their illegal expansion and settlements. People who fall for the "we're just fighting terrorists" propaganda, are just gullible and short sighted to me. Not capable of seeing the bigger picture.

Israel want to make the possibility of a two state solution as impossible as humanly possible, and this has been clear from the offset. Israel deserves the full detestation of the international community.

This is such a silly blanket statement. Who is this Israel you're talking about? Is it the same Israel which pulled out of Gaza and offered comprehensive peace deals to the Palestinians twice? Israel is not some monolithic entity with some single evil plan. Netanyahu isn't keen on two states, that much is clear. But even today over half of MKs support two states. The main reason for the relative weakness of the Israeli left since 2006 is the terrible experience from the Gaza and Lebanon pullouts. In both cases vacated territory was used to mount further attacks against Israel.

 

[Osahi]

Israel has the power, but they certainly don't have the international support. The entire international community is against them, with the exception of the US, as clearly evidenced by the UN resolutions critical to Israel, and the sole US veto's that bail Israel out time and time and again.

Honestly, in the grander sense of things, this has little to do with Hamas. Hamas is probably the best thing Israel could have hoped for. The perfect boogeyman and excuse for them to execute their colonisation plans and continue their brutal occupation and it's expansion.

Europe is not against. They "condemn" in vague terms. 'Against' would imply economic sanctions and louder actions, fitting for a country comitting war crimes on a almost regular basis

 

[Quotient]

Again this line of reasoning seems to assume that the ONLY acts of aggression are ones that involve direct violence. Imposing a blockade and occupying territory and the settlements are all acts of aggression. Hell, they'd be acts of war if Palestine weren't in a weird limbo where it's neither a country nor a dependent territory.

You're basically saying here, in the bolded, that Israel acted aggressively towards Gaza but it's ok because something might have happened in the future. Hamas has to earn all the trust here while Israel continues its acts of aggression against the Palestinians.

Yes, Israel has all the power. And they are abusing it.

I don't deny it isn't an act of aggression and i'm saying its okay because something in the future might justify it. I am saying that Hamas is only further justifying the aggression and giving the right-wing Israeli's further justification in their ideology.

I ask you this, has Hamas amassing rockets and firing them on Israel improved the Palestinian peoples current situation or only worsened it*?

*I get this feeling we are going in circle?

 

[Quotient]

Without any further obfuscation, my point was that the Palestinians in Gaza have been in a shitty situation for decades.

That i definitely agree with.

 

[curlyfriski]

Anybody catch this over the weekend?


(Times of Israel: Netanyahu finally speaks his mind)

So we're in the current phase of "take care of Hamas", but whats the real end-game here?

Apartheid state, here we come.

 

[Quotient]

Apartheid state, here we come.

Netanyahu isn't a dictator and he still needs support of his parliament. We must hope that wiser minds in the Knesset will prevail.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

I don't think anybody closely following Netanyahu has ever thought he was doing anything other than attempting to buy time, in the hopes that eventually a solution would present itself that didn't involve establishing another state in the middle east that would be anti-Israel.

From his point of view (and the point of view of many others), as long as Israel is vastly outnumbered and surrounded by powerful countries calling for its dissolution, there is reason to be fearful and overprotective. My personal belief is that if Israel had a partner or two in the middle east, perhaps things would be different. Perhaps Israel would feel safe enough to relinquish its hold on the palestinian territories, knowing the responsibility for cultivating a Palestinian state would be shared by its neighbours.

But from Netanyahu and other right wing supporters' point of view, the events in Syria Egypt, Iraq etc in recent years have only made their fears appear to be more real than ever. I imagine they feel even less safe in their neighbourhood now than they did at the time of the separation from Gaza.

Adding to my post above, I think that on a practical level, some sort of extensive commitment from members of the Arab League towards cultivating a Palestinian state with a first priority of drastically improving quality of life for its citizens, and a second priority of accomplishing this without resorting to threats on Israeli citizens, would go a very long way towards ending this conflict.

 

[GYODX]

I think that however I explain it and however much sources i give you, your opinion won't even change. So I don't think i'll even bother at this point.

So if Hamas states something it's superficial and "a front", but when the IDF claims they are looking out for the palestinian civilians while actually killing hundreds of them it's not, right?

Every single one of Hamas' rockets was launched with the honest intention of killing Israeli civilians. They've said it themselves that every single Israeli is a target.

That they don't manage to actually kill anyone has as much to do with the fact that they are incompetent and that Israel goes to great pains to protect its own civilians, which is why it has developed Iron Dome technology, has bomb shelters all over the place, and drills and educates its citizens from childhood to run for their lives during rocket attacks.

Compare that to Israel's attacks. You keep bringing up the fact that hundreds of civilians have died, because it's a big number and big numbers add dramatic effect, but you fail to put that in the context of the thousands of airstrikes that Israel has conducted. Although there is no amount of "justified" civilian casualties and even a single dead civilian is an inexcusable tragedy, you make it sound as if every single one of Israel's airstrikes ends in civilian casualties, and that is intellectually disingenuous. Those are the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Bel_Air_Jeff]

Every single one of Hamas' rockets was launched with the honest intention of killing Israeli civilians. They've said it themselves that every single Israeli is a target.

That they don't manage to actually kill anyone has as much to do with the fact that they are incompetent and that Israel goes to great pains to protect its own civilians, which is why it has developed Iron Dome technology, has bomb shelters all over the place, and drills and educates its citizens from childhood to run for their lives during rocket attacks.

Compare that to Israel's attacks. You keep bringing up the fact that hundreds of civilians have died, because it's a big number and big numbers add dramatic effect, but you fail to put that in the context of the thousands of airstrikes that Israel has conducted. Although there is no amount of "justified" civilian casualties and even a single dead civilian is an inexcusable tragedy, you make it sound as if every single one of Israel's airstrikes ends in civilian casualties, and that is intellectually disingenuous. Those are the exception rather than the rule.

good post. I'd also like to add that in that past couple days 2/3rds of Israel's population had to enter a bomb shelter of some sort in fear of attacks, that's equivalent of 2 million Americans.. Imagine that sort of daily routine.

 

[nib95]

Europe is not against. They "condemn" in vague terms. 'Against' would imply economic sanctions and louder actions, fitting for a country comitting war crimes on a almost regular basis

Had the US not vetoed those countless UN resolutions, I have no doubt sanctions of some form would have already been in place today. In fact, the EU has already proposed measures that do impose penalties and sanctions on Israeli businesses operating from the West Bank in terms of grants and funding, at least in some form anyway.

http://m.neurope.eu/article/eu-israel-could-face-economic-isolation-and-sanctions

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ks-compromise-on-EU-settlement-sanctions.html

 

[Quotient]

Had the US not vetoed those countless UN resolutions, I have no doubt sanctions of some form would have already been in place today. In fact, the EU has already proposed measures that do impose penalties and sanctions on Israeli businesses operating from the West Bank in terms of grants and funding, at least in some form anyway.

http://m.neurope.eu/article/eu-israel-could-face-economic-isolation-and-sanctions

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ks-compromise-on-EU-settlement-sanctions.html

The fact that Israel has a large tech and pharmaceutical industry would suggest that any sanctions would fail* - after all money talks!

*just my conjecture.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Every single one of Hamas' rockets was launched with the honest intention of killing Israeli civilians. They've said it themselves that every single Israeli is a target.

Just because the Israeli government did say that they are trying to prevent the death of innocents, doesn't mean they were telling the truth.

That they don't manage to actually kill anyone has as much to do with the fact that they are incompetent and that Israel goes to great pains to protect its own civilians, which is why it has developed Iron Dome technology, has bomb shelters all over the place, and drills and educates its citizens from childhood to run for their lives during rocket attacks.

Compare that to Israel's attacks. You keep bringing up the fact that hundreds of civilians have died, because it's a big number and big numbers add dramatic effect,

Are you kidding me? Do we need to post pictures of dead children again? Just listen to yourself. You sound absolutely evil.

but you fail to put that in the context of the thousands of airstrikes that Israel has conducted. Although there is no amount of "justified" civilian casualties and even a single dead civilian is an inexcusable tragedy, you make it sound as if every single one of Israel's airstrikes ends in civilian casualties, and that is intellectually disingenuous. Those are the exception rather than the rule.

You are boasting. You are fucking boasting by using those dead people as an example that the IDF "did a good job". You make me sick.

good post. I'd also like to add that in that past couple days 2/3rds of Israel's population had to enter a bomb shelter of some sort in fear of attacks, that's equivalent of 2 million Americans.. Imagine that sort of daily routine.

Much better than sitting in your unsafe home with no place to go because the borders are closed and because there are no bunkers, and having to suffer the bombing from high-tech weapons which can level whole blocks and annihilate your whole family in the blink of an eye.

Imagine that sort of daily routine.

 

[Buzzati]

good post. I'd also like to add that in that past couple days 2/3rds of Israel's population had to enter a bomb shelter of some sort in fear of attacks, that's equivalent of 2 million Americans.. Imagine that sort of daily routine.

Imagine having no parents.

“Albatsh children in farewell of their father & mother, killed by Israeli Army -- PBS”

What are these kids supposed to do now? Or the 175+ other families affected by the casualties?


Don't try to appeal to emotions - this isn't a fight you can win.

 

[Bel_Air_Jeff]

Imagine having no parents.

“Albatsh children in farewell of their father & mother, killed by Israeli Army -- PBS”

What are these kids supposed to do now? Or the 175+ other families affected by the casualties?


Don't try to appeal to emotions - this isn't a fight you can win.

War isn't fair. I wasn't denoting anything about the Palestinians... Not everything is a bicker war on whose side is more victimized. That isn't going to get us anywhere.

Hamas could have easily spent their funding on bomb shelters and protecting their citizens. They didn't.

 

[Maninthemirror]

War isn't fair. I wasn't denoting anything about the Palestinians... Not everything is a bicker war on whose side is more victimized. That isn't going to get us anywhere.

Hamas could have easily spent their funding on bomb shelters and protecting their citizens. They didn't.

True. israel has a lot of collateral damage with precision bombings, Hamas wayward rockets has hit no one yet.

 

[Buzzati]

War isn't fair. I wasn't denoting anything about the Palestinians... Not everything is a bicker war on whose side is more victimized. That isn't going to get us anywhere.

Hamas could have easily spent their funding on bomb shelters and protecting their citizens. They didn't.

For all practical purposes, the shelters would be targets themselves - It has been public knowledge that Israel has a large stockpile of bunker buster missiles for the past decade. The NYT article is posted somewhere in this thread.

That post was in reference to your point in mentioning the toil of Israeli's population of moving to a bomb shelter. I might as well have used your response, though. "War isn't fair."

It certainly isn't, huh.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Would it make some of you feel better if several dozens of Israeli civilians died during the current operation? Because that's what it sounds like some of you are implying, and it isn't very constructive..

 

[Buzzati]

Would it make you feel better if several dozens of Israeli civilians died during the current operation? Because that's what it sounds like you're implying, and it isn't very constructive..

I would really love to see where you thought I was implying that. I really would.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

I would really love to see where you thought I was implying that. I really would.

apologies, I replied to the wrong post. Decided to make it a general reply to the thread instead.

 

[Buzzati]

apologies, I replied to the wrong post. Decided to make it a general reply to the thread instead.

No worries.

 

[Bel_Air_Jeff]

Would it make some of you feel better if several dozens of Israeli civilians died during the current operation? Because that's what it sounds like some of you are implying, and it isn't very constructive..

Yeah, I'm getting that vibe too reading through this thread.

It's all really sad. I've been to Israel.. it's a beautiful country and everyone I met was quite nice and accepting. I just want this to be over.. This will only cause antisemitism to spread, unfortunately.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

War isn't fair. I wasn't denoting anything about the Palestinians... Not everything is a bicker war on whose side is more victimized. That isn't going to get us anywhere.

Hamas could have easily spent their funding on bomb shelters and protecting their citizens. They didn't.

You are unbelievable. "War isn't fair".

Would it make some of you feel better if several dozens of Israeli civilians died during the current operation? Because that's what it sounds like some of you are implying, and it isn't very constructive..

No. It would make me feel better if the IDF stopped their brutal attacks against Gaza, if they stopped killing innocent people, and if the Israeli government starts peace talks now. They should give Hamas no excuse to fire rockets against Israel. Stop the settlements. Help create a Palestinian state. This is the only way to peace.

 

[Bel_Air_Jeff]

You are unbelievable. "War isn't fair".



No. It would make me feel better if the IDF stopped their brutal attacks against Gaza, if they stopped killing innocent people, and if the Israeli government starts peace talks now. They should give Hamas no excuse to fire rockets against Israel. Stop the settlements. Help create a Palestinian state. This is the only way to peace.

It's not. You can ask my great great grandparents about what it was like in Nazi Germany..
Hamas wants to murder every single Jew regardless of peace, you do realize that right?

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Just because the Israeli government did say that they are trying to prevent the death of innocents, doesn't mean they were telling the truth.



Are you kidding me? Do we need to post pictures of dead children again? Just listen to yourself. You sound absolutely evil.



You are boasting. You are fucking boasting by using those dead people as an example that the IDF "did a good job". You make me sick.



Much better than sitting in your unsafe home with no place to go because the borders are closed and because there are no bunkers, and having to suffer the bombing from high-tech weapons which can level whole blocks and annihilate your whole family in the blink of an eye.

Imagine that sort of daily routine.

Then stand up against hamas to break out of this routine, there's no other option here, the rockets have to stop or they'll be left with nothing but rubble, Israel doesn't care, nor does the rest of the world. The Palestinians aren't in a position of leverage to demand anything from Israel or anybody for that matter and they likely never will. It's about survival and quality of life, not moral high ground or sovereignty/territory, those are entitlements that people with a proper roof over their heads would seek.

 

[Buzzati]

It's not. You can ask my great great grandparents about what it was like in Nazi Germany..
Hamas wants to murder every single Jew regardless of peace, you do realize that right?

The grandparents of those that risked their lives to fight the Nazis did it so crimes like that of the Third Reich's and Israel's would not go unpunished. They would be disappointed if they saw what was going on today.

 

[Terra]

Hamas wants to murder every single Jew regardless of peace, you do realize that right?

I am not too enlightened about the conflict. But this isn´t true at all, right?
That would be like...nazi stuff.

 

[m_shortpants]

It's not. You can ask my great great grandparents about what it was like in Nazi Germany..
Hamas wants to murder every single Jew regardless of peace, you do realize that right?

Show me where Hamas says they want to murder every single Jew. I'm pretty sure we just covered this on the last page.

 

[Joni]

It's not. You can ask my great great grandparents about what it was like in Nazi Germany..

Luckily there were courageous people fighting for the liberation of their country and the protection of the jews. The Nazi Germans used to call them terrorists.

 

[m_shortpants]

It's not. You can ask my great great grandparents about what it was like in Nazi Germany..
Hamas wants to murder every single Jew regardless of peace, you do realize that right?

Also, it's ironic you'd compare Hamas to Nazi Germany, when Hamas and the Palestinians are the ones living in an open air prison and a concentration camp by definition. They can't go anywhere. They're under siege. They don't actually have any freedom. That's the very definition of internment.

 

[Quotient]

Then stand up against hamas to break out of this routine, there's no other option here, the rockets have to stop or they'll be left with nothing but rubble, Israel doesn't care, nor does the rest of the world. The Palestinians aren't in a position of leverage to demand anything from Israel or anybody for that matter and they likely never will. It's about survival and quality of life, not moral high ground or sovereignty/territory, those are entitlements that people with a proper roof over their heads would seek.

I don't think people in this thread want to hear this or admit this truth - it easier to just argue back and forth about who is right and wrong.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

You are unbelievable. "War isn't fair".



No. It would make me feel better if the IDF stopped their brutal attacks against Gaza, if they stopped killing innocent people, and if the Israeli government starts peace talks now. They should give Hamas no excuse to fire rockets against Israel. Stop the settlements. Help create a Palestinian state. This is the only way to peace.

Even if there's no Israel, there wouldn't be a Palestinian state, they'll probably be invaded by Syria and driven out.

 

[m_shortpants]

Then stand up against hamas to break out of this routine, there's no other option here, the rockets have to stop or they'll be left with nothing but rubble, Israel doesn't care, nor does the rest of the world. The Palestinians aren't in a position of leverage to demand anything from Israel or anybody for that matter and they likely never will. It's about survival and quality of life, not moral high ground or sovereignty/territory, those are entitlements that people with a proper roof over their heads would seek.

The West Bank isn't firing any rockets and they aren't in a much better situation. Yes, they aren't being bombed. But settlement construction continues. So they've tried both options and nothing has worked for them.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

No. It would make me feel better if the IDF stopped their brutal attacks against Gaza, if they stopped killing innocent people, and if the Israeli government starts peace talks now. They should give Hamas no excuse to fire rockets against Israel. Stop the settlements. Help create a Palestinian state. This is the only way to peace.

I have been asking myself repeatedly over the last few days if the number of Palestinian innocent casualties is due to malice on part of the IDF. I intend to continue asking this question until I have found a satisfactory answer, but as of now I am not certain.

However, I made an attempt to address some of your other points in two previous posts, both of which are concentrated at #1819.

I believe the way I describe it there is closer to how the current right wing Israeli government sees it, and in the interest of coming up with a swift and practical end to this conflict, I believe an approach similar to the one I suggest would be more effective.

 

[Bel_Air_Jeff]

Show me where Hamas says they want to murder every single Jew. I'm pretty sure we just covered this on the last page.

http://www.adl.org/anti-semitism/muslim-arab-world/c/hamas-in-their-own-words.html

 

[Linkhero1]

The West Bank isn't firing any rockets and they aren't in a much better situation. Yes, they aren't being bombed. But settlement construction continues. So they've tried both options and nothing has worked for them.

Those checkpoints aren't going anywhere soon either.

 

[Quotient]

The West Bank isn't firing any rockets and they aren't in a much better situation. Yes, they aren't being bombed. But settlement construction continues. So they've tried both options and nothing has worked for them.

So you suggest that by not firing rockets, the situation in the west bank has not improved, does firing rockets at Israel like Hamas is doing will improve the situation?

EDIT: What i am trying to get at is Israel have categorically stated they will never work with Hamas (and for good reason). So why do the Palestinian people support Hamas? Continuing down a path that includes Hamas will only lead further into death and destruction. The have nothing left than to accept Israeli demands and hope for the best outcome.

 

[m_shortpants]

http://www.adl.org/anti-semitism/muslim-arab-world/c/hamas-in-their-own-words.html

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=120978949

 

[Bel_Air_Jeff]

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=120978949

You are using wikipedia as a source..