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[Terra Firma]

Isn't Canada an occupied country though? Like the land was stolen from the First Nations and settled and the dispossessed First Nations people now live in squalor, denied sovereignty. Canadians have more in common with the Israelis than the Palestinians.

There's a difference, though. The First Nations are full fledged citizens. Yes, it is shameful how they were treated and how their community continues to be treated. (Sane) Canadians feel bad for their continued plight and make efforts to improve their quality of life.

Many Palestinians wouldn't mind becoming Israeli citizens and being afforded all the rights that Israelis gets. Problem is, if Palestinians were given Israeli citizenship, it would tip the population to become an Arab majority. Israel does not want that.

Harper is in a whole different class of loony.

 

[nib95]

If only there was another group of Palestinian's on another piece of land, kowtowing to all of Israel's demands to which the Gazans could look to.

Oh wait.

Settlement construction in Judea and Samaria (West Bank) between 2001 and 2013, per Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics

All "peace" with Israel gets is more stolen land. Israel does not give a flying fugg about peace, it's always been about the land it's sky pal promised them.

People forget that the Palestinians spent nearly 40 mostly peaceful years trying to stop Israel stealing their land, it just got them more stolen land.
.

That graph is terrifying.

 

[deanfrag]

That graph is terrifying.

terrifying? seriously? does that graph really terrifies you? in what way? please elaborate.
And a quick question, how is the West Bank = Palestinian land if Israel took it from Jordan in 67?
In my opinion, Israel should just give the West Bank back to Jordan and be done with it.

 

[neurosisxeno]

We really need a different prime minister...

Canada was another one of the 9 to vote against Palestine in the UN. They are very pro-Israeli.

That graph is terrifying.

You think that one's bad? Check out these. 96% of the deaths since 2005 in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have been on the side of Palestine. They are essentially be massacred at a rate of 19:1. Of those deaths they are primarily civilians as well (over 2/3's).

 

[Sibylus]

Isn't Canada an occupied country though? Like the land was stolen from the First Nations and settled and the dispossessed First Nations people now live in squalor, denied sovereignty. Canadians have more in common with the Israelis than the Palestinians.

There's a difference, though. The First Nations are full fledged citizens. Yes, it is shameful how they were treated and how their community continues to be treated. (Sane) Canadians feel bad for their continued plight and make efforts to improve their quality of life.

Many Palestinians wouldn't mind becoming Israeli citizens and being afforded all the rights that Israelis gets. Problem is, if Palestinians were given Israeli citizenship, it would tip the population to become an Arab majority. Israel does not want that.

Harper is in a whole different class of loony.

To add onto what Terra Firma said, the first nations have some (problematic) representation in the Canadian government, and are granted degrees of self-governance... without occupation by military troops or being blockaded off into open air prisons. What further muddles the occupation description is that unlike the Israelis or Palestinians, the native peoples were semi-or-fully nomadic with amorphous borders. Furthermore, there was no expansion remotely comparable to that taking place in the American west, if for no other reason than the population and projective power of Canada historically being tiny. Often self-limiting to enclaves was a natural consequence, up until the railroads of the 19th and 20th centuries, when we began waging a cultural war to try to forcibly Europeanize them.

A cultural occupation would be more apt for the bulk of it, but it's nonetheless a grievous injury that the first nations are still reeling from. The Canada that sprung up around them must be responsible for redressing it, and ultimately should aspire to be receptive to allowing whatever sovereignty the natives desire independent of it. There's a number of obstacles to that, but slowly getting there (example).

 

[Chichikov]

terrifying? seriously? does that graph really terrifies you? in what way? please elaborate.
And a quick question, how is the West Bank = Palestinian land if Israel took it from Jordan in 67?
In my opinion, Israel should just give the West Bank back to Jordan and be done with it.

Jordan doesn't want it anymore.
Israel had the chance to return it to Jordan, but it dragged its feet for decades.

 

[kmag]

terrifying? seriously? does that graph really terrifies you? in what way? please elaborate.
And a quick question, how is the West Bank = Palestinian land if Israel took it from Jordan in 67?
In my opinion, Israel should just give the West Bank back to Jordan and be done with it.

It's terrifying because it catergorically destroys any notion of

a) Israel as a willing partner to peace. Israel's notion of peace is the peace to quietly continue land grabs.
b) any possibility of a viable two state solution. That died with Olmert's legal issues and the right wing coalition coming to power in Israel. The rapid expansion of the settlement program makes any viable state almost impossible.

The best the Palestinians in the West Bank could get is a series of tightly controlled bantustans.

 

[deanfrag]

Jordan doesn't want it anymore.
Israel had the chance to return it to Jordan, but it dragged its feet for decades.

Ok, Jordan doesnt want it anymore, thats fine. but when exactly did it become Palestinians land? How can Israel "steal" land from Palestinians if its not their land to begin with?

It's terrifying because it catergorically destroys any notion of

a) Israel as a willing partner to peace. Israel's notion of peace is the peace to quietly continue land grabs.
b) any possibility of a viable two state solution. That died with Olmert's legal issues and the right wing coalition. The rapid expansion of the settlement program makes any viable state almost impossible.

The best the Palestinians in the West Bank could get is a series of tightly controlled bantustans.

Like I said above, grabing land from who? Jordan?

 

[Chichikov]

Ok, Jordan doesnt want it anymore, thats fine. but when exactly did it become Palestinians land? How can Israel "steal" land from Palestinians if its not their land to begin with?

It's "their" land because they lived there.
Let's remember what Jordan is, a made up country the British gave up to a Saudi family that helped them in World War I.

But you're looking at it the wrong way, the issue is not a "theft" of a country, the issue is that you have millions of people in the west bank without basic human rights under military rule.
Israel can let them have a country or give them citizenship, both solutions are fine, but it refuse to do either.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

There's a difference, though. The First Nations are full fledged citizens. Yes, it is shameful how they were treated and how their community continues to be treated. (Sane) Canadians feel bad for their continued plight and make efforts to improve their quality of life.

Many Palestinians wouldn't mind becoming Israeli citizens and being afforded all the rights that Israelis gets. Problem is, if Palestinians were given Israeli citizenship, it would tip the population to become an Arab majority. Israel does not want that.

Harper is in a whole different class of loony.

Would it? Just looking at the population numbers given on wikipedia:

Palastinian territories: 4,550,000
Israel: 8,146,300

So it looks like a single state would still be majority Israeli...

 

[archnemesis]

Would it? Just looking at the population numbers given on wikipedia:

Palastinian territories: 4,550,000
Israel: 8,146,300

So it looks like a single state would still be majority Israeli...

2 million of those Israelis aren't Jewish. The total fertility rate in the Palestinian territories is 4.38 versus 3.00 in Israel.

 

[kmag]

Ok, Jordan doesnt want it anymore, thats fine. but when exactly did it become Palestinians land? How can Israel "steal" land from Palestinians if its not their land to begin with?


Like I said above, grabing land from who? Jordan?

The people who erm live there obviously. What else do you call land seizures, forced destruction of property. It's simple theft.

Modern Jordan itself is a post colonial construct from the British Mandate for Palestine.

 

[Kagutaba]

Hamas is a terror organization with the destruction of Israel and it's people as it's main goal. They don't care about their own people's wellbeing, instead they gladly use them as human shields for their missile ramps. Family homes, hospitals, kindergartens. The more causalities the better. When the IDF calls the address of a target or fire a warning missile ('roof knocking'), the only action Hamas takes is to wheel out their film crew to take photos of the dead familes and children. Hamas is an expert at propaganda and just as the Russians during the invasion of Crimea is working furiously to shape the opinion through respected media. The good people of the Internet should be very mindful of forming a hardline stance against Israel with just Reddit, twitter and CNN as their sources. The IDF is a defender of it's people with an impossible job, Hamas is the opposite, and as long as they exist there can never be peace.

 

[Terra Firma]

Hamas is a terror organization with the destruction of Israel and it's people as it's main goal. They don't care about their own people's wellbeing, instead they gladly use them as human shields for their missile ramps. Family homes, hospitals, kindergartens. The more causalities the better. When the IDF calls the address of a target or fire a warning missile ('roof knocking'), the only action Hamas takes is to wheel out their film crew to take photos of the dead familes and children. Hamas is an expert at propaganda and just as the Russians during the invasion of Crimea is working furiously to shape the opinion through respected media. The good people of the Internet should be very mindful of forming a hardline stance against Israel with just Reddit, twitter and CNN as their sources. The IDF is a defender of it's people with an impossible job, Hamas is the opposite, and as long as they exist there can never be peace.

Are you for real?

Israel has lobbying groups in America that pay the government to take Israel's side at every turn. The media in the US is saturated with pro-Israeli sentiment, which is why many Americans are still pro-Israeli while the rest of the world isn't. It is thanks to the Internet that opinions have been starting to change.

We should trust Fox news, right?

To say that the media or propaganda is squarely in the hands of Hamas is ridiculous. "Roof knocking" doesn't take into account the disabled, the elderly, those who are otherwise engaged. It also has been shown to have varying lengths of time after the "roof knock" has occurred. Some may be 3 minutes before the place is bombed; some can be even less than a minute! There was a video posted of an APARTMENT COMPLEX (which obviously means you need a lot more time in case you're unlucky enough to live on the top floor) where there was "roof knocking" done followed by bombardment a few seconds later.

And so what if Hamas is taking pictures of Palestinian victims? Sure, they may or may not have goals for propaganda, but the fact of the matter is, those people are still dead.

 

[Cromat]

Hamas officially rejects Egyptian ceasefire agreement.

http://af.reuters.com/article/egyptNews/idAFL6N0PR3VN20140716

 

[sindbadthesailor]

Hamas is a terror organization with the destruction of Israel and it's people as it's main goal. They don't care about their own people's wellbeing, instead they gladly use them as human shields for their missile ramps. Family homes, hospitals, kindergartens. The more causalities the better. When the IDF calls the address of a target or fire a warning missile ('roof knocking'), the only action Hamas takes is to wheel out their film crew to take photos of the dead familes and children. Hamas is an expert at propaganda and just as the Russians during the invasion of Crimea is working furiously to shape the opinion through respected media. The good people of the Internet should be very mindful of forming a hardline stance against Israel with just Reddit, twitter and CNN as their sources. The IDF is a defender of it's people with an impossible job, Hamas is the opposite, and as long as they exist there can never be peace.

It's hilarious how the script never changes.

 

[Maninthemirror]

So it was true after all

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/1...-seats.html?ref=world&_r=4&referrer&referrer=

Absolutely disgusting

 

[TheRealTalker]

So it was true after all

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/1...-seats.html?ref=world&_r=4&referrer&referrer=

Absolutely disgusting

they did it before

a few years ago... this isn't new sadly


Edit: Yup the article mentions about the other time in 2009 as well

 

[Jag]

Hamas officially rejects Egyptian ceasefire agreement.

http://af.reuters.com/article/egyptNews/idAFL6N0PR3VN20140716

Sure, why should Hamas accept it. They are in hiding while their people suffer for their arrogance. Every 'martyr' just increases their strength. Israel just plays right into their hands.

 

[LNBL]

Updated 4:51 pm: Four children were among several killed in new Israeli air and tank strikes in Gaza on Wednesday, medics said, bringing the death toll from Israel's assault in the besieged Palestinian territory to 212.

In the latest attack, four children were on a beach when Israel shelled them, emergency services spokesman Ashraf al-Qudra said, with several injured children taking refuge at a nearby hotel where journalists were staying.

Before that attack, witnesses told AFP a missile struck a car in the southern city of Khan Younis, with emergency services spokesman Ashraf al-Qudra confirming three people had been killed and another five wounded.

Also, a strike on a house in the southern city of Rafah killed two men, Qudra told AFP, and a separate raid killed a young man.

Further Rafah strikes left two men dead, Qudra said, while a raid on the home of Mohammed al-Arjani in the southern city of Khan Younis killed his son Abdullah, 19.

About an hour later, Israeli tank fire from outside Gaza hit the eastern part of Khan Younis, killing one person, Qudra said, later adding that another man was slain there, 33-year-old Mahmoud Abu Dakka.

Some of the first raids on Wednesday morning targeted homes of senior Hamas officials, including Mahmoud al-Zahar, but there were no reports of casualties.

http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/over-200-dead-israeli-assault-gaza-enters-day-nine

Agence France Presse
GAZA CITY, Palestinian Territories: Four children were killed in Gaza City Wednesday, medics said, in Israeli shelling witnessed by AFP journalists.

All four were on the beach when the attack took place, emergency services spokesman Ashraf al-Qudra said, with several injured children taking refuge at a nearby hotel where journalists were staying.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Mi...gaza-city-kills-4-children.ashx#axzz37dk4kyeE

Sure, why should Hamas accept it. They are in hiding while their people suffer for their arrogance. Every 'martyr' just increases their strength. Israel just plays right into their hands.

Netanyahu warned that Israel’s appetite for restraint wouldn’t last long. “We accepted the Egyptian cease-fire proposal to give an opportunity to demilitarize the Gaza Strip from rockets. If Hamas continues to fire at Israel, Israel will have the international legitimacy to take action,” he said at midday.

Soon after, the IAF carried out a single air strike on the northern Gaza Strip, with no causalities reported.

It might be hard to fathom why Hamas leaders would blow an opportunity for a cease-fire, given the 192 Gazans killed and over 1,400 wounded in the past week, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry. The reason: the proposal fashioned by Egypt was not discussed with Hamas leaders, who feel it suits Israel far more than them.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders say they were not consulted, and the proposal does not hit on some of the basic elements they outlined as a condition of a truce. Specifically, they are asking for an end to the “siege” of Gaza, an amorphous term that refers to the economic and physical isolation Israel has sought to impose on the territory, in an effort to squeeze Hamas and potentially turn frustrated Gazans against it.

http://time.com/2986107/israel-gaza-hamas-ceasefire/

So it was true after all

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/1...-seats.html?ref=world&_r=4&referrer&referrer=

Absolutely disgusting

Yup, I posted some pictures that a Dutch newspaper put online

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121149253&postcount=2303

 

[Kenshin001]

To add onto what Terra Firma said, the first nations have some (problematic) representation in the Canadian government, and are granted degrees of self-governance... without occupation by military troops or being blockaded off into open air prisons. What further muddles the occupation description is that unlike the Israelis or Palestinians, the native peoples were semi-or-fully nomadic with amorphous borders. Furthermore, there was no expansion remotely comparable to that taking place in the American west, if for no other reason than the population and projective power of Canada historically being tiny. Often self-limiting to enclaves was a natural consequence, up until the railroads of the 19th and 20th centuries, when we began waging a cultural war to try to forcibly Europeanize them.

A cultural occupation would be more apt for the bulk of it, but it's nonetheless a grievous injury that the first nations are still reeling from. The Canada that sprung up around them must be responsible for redressing it, and ultimately should aspire to be receptive to allowing whatever sovereignty the natives desire independent of it. There's a number of obstacles to that, but slowly getting there (example).

The land is still occupied, the settlers never left and all the land taken was not returned. The First Nations have token political power and many live in appalling conditions. I even read of First Nations people comparing themselves to the Palestinians. Like I said Canadians have more in common with Israelis than Palestinians so I guess that's why most Canadians either support neutrality or favour Israel, according to a CBC survey.

 

[m_shortpants]

What transpired? Link?

The White House invited the Israeli ambassador to the Iftar dinner and then gave him a podium to speak, where he said to the Muslim captive audience that Palestinians have "a cultural tendency towards belligerency" that is "deeply embedded in the culture of the Arab world and its foremost religion".

Seriously? The Iftar dinner is supposed to be an act of solidarity and respect, and you invite a guy who insults every Muslim there. Of course his speech was followed too by Obama's own defense of Israeli policy.

Smh. Somehow I doubt the White House would invite a Palestinian to a Shabbat dinner to criticise Israeli policy towards them.

 

[Quotient]

The White House invited the Israeli ambassador to the Iftar dinner and then gave him a podium to speak, where he said to the Muslim captive audience that Palestinians have "a cultural tendency towards belligerency" that is "deeply embedded in the culture of the Arab world and its foremost religion".

Seriously? The Iftar dinner is supposed to be an act of solidarity and respect, and you invite a guy who insults every Muslim there. Of course his speech was followed too by Obama's own defense of Israeli policy.

Smh.

WOW. I'm not surprised by the ambassador, but for the President to follow up and defend Israel is surprising (not his defense but choosing that event to do it at).

 

[Maninthemirror]

The White House invited the Israeli ambassador to the Iftar dinner and then gave him a podium to speak, where he said to the Muslim captive audience that Palestinians have "a cultural tendency towards belligerency" that is "deeply embedded in the culture of the Arab world and its foremost religion".

Seriously? The Iftar dinner is supposed to be an act of solidarity and respect, and you invite a guy who insults every Muslim there. Of course his speech was followed too by Obama's own defense of Israeli policy.

Smh. Somehow I doubt the White House would invite a Palestinian to a Shabbat dinner to criticise Israeli policy towards them.

Obama has been a worse president since carter in the 2nd term than carter in his first term. As if when the burden of reelection was over his true colors showed and they were inept and dull

 

[nib95]

The White House invited the Israeli ambassador to the Iftar dinner and then gave him a podium to speak, where he said to the Muslim captive audience that Palestinians have "a cultural tendency towards belligerency" that is "deeply embedded in the culture of the Arab world and its foremost religion".

Seriously? The Iftar dinner is supposed to be an act of solidarity and respect, and you invite a guy who insults every Muslim there. Of course his speech was followed too by Obama's own defense of Israeli policy.

Smh. Somehow I doubt the White House would invite a Palestinian to a Shabbat dinner to criticise Israeli policy towards them.

Fucking hell lol. I wonder what the reactions were of some of the Arabs there? Talk about making a mockery of them. Obama continues to show his ineptitude.

 

[Kagutaba]

Are you for real?

Israel has lobbying groups in America that pay the government to take Israel's side at every turn. The media in the US is saturated with pro-Israeli sentiment, which is why many Americans are still pro-Israeli while the rest of the world isn't. It is thanks to the Internet that opinions have been starting to change.

We should trust Fox news, right?

I'm not a American, I'm speaking for a couple of Israeli friends, some in the military, against Hamas.

And so what if Hamas is taking pictures of Palestinian victims? Sure, they may or may not have goals for propaganda, but the fact of the matter is, those people are still dead.

They aren't just documenting the causalities after a fact, they are actively and purposely causing them by strategically placing their missile ramps in locations that maximize civilian causalities. For Hamas the civilians on both sides are just fodder in this war. They are a terror organization, designated by the United States, Canada and the EU, with the expressed goal of the extermination of the Israeli and Jewish people. They are indefensible.

 

[m_shortpants]

Fucking hell lol. I wonder what the reactions were of some of the Arabs there? Talk about making a mockery of them. Obama continues to show his ineptitude.

That my friend is an influence of significant magnitude (Read: AIPAC).

 

[Maninthemirror]

I'm not a American, I'm speaking for a couple of Israeli friends, some in the military, against Hamas.



They aren't just documenting the causalities after a fact, they are actively and purposely causing them by strategically placing their missile ramps in locations that maximize civilian causalities. For Hamas the civilians on both sides are just fodder in this war. They are a terror organization, designated by the United States, Canada and the EU, with the expressed goal of the extermination of the Israeli and Jewish people. They are indefensible.

What strategic placing have you seen the size of Gaza ?

 

[Joni]

Hamas is a terror organization with the destruction of Israel and it's people as it's main goal. They don't care about their own people's wellbeing, instead they gladly use them as human shields for their missile ramps. Family homes, hospitals, kindergartens. The more causalities the better. When the IDF calls the address of a target or fire a warning missile ('roof knocking'), the only action Hamas takes is to wheel out their film crew to take photos of the dead familes and children. Hamas is an expert at propaganda and just as the Russians during the invasion of Crimea is working furiously to shape the opinion through respected media. The good people of the Internet should be very mindful of forming a hardline stance against Israel with just Reddit, twitter and CNN as their sources. The IDF is a defender of it's people with an impossible job, Hamas is the opposite, and as long as they exist there can never be peace.

Only they never made it clear to the Palestenian people that the roof knocking missile isn't the rocket they warned about in the calls. So a lot of people think they're safe after the dud hits.
Also, how nice of them to warn you they'll destroy your house. Arsonists would be so much more popular if they did the same.

I'm not a American, I'm speaking for a couple of Israeli friends, some in the military, against Hamas.



They aren't just documenting the causalities after a fact, they are actively and purposely causing them by strategically placing their missile ramps in locations that maximize civilian causalities. For Hamas the civilians on both sides are just fodder in this war. They are a terror organization, designated by the United States, Canada and the EU, with the expressed goal of the extermination of the Israeli and Jewish people. They are indefensible.

And for the Israelis, the Palestinians are fodder. So fuck the Palestenians?

 

[LNBL]

I'm not a American, I'm speaking for a couple of Israeli friends, some in the military, against Hamas.



They aren't just documenting the causalities after a fact, they are actively and purposely causing them by strategically placing their missile ramps in locations that maximize civilian causalities. For Hamas the civilians on both sides are just fodder in this war. They are a terror organization, designated by the United States, Canada and the EU, with the expressed goal of the extermination of the Israeli and Jewish people. They are indefensible.

The number of deaths on Palestinian side proves it's Israel that sees them as fodder.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Gaza is the 5th highest population per square mile city/area in the world with a population of 10,000 people per square miles. Its impossible to strategically place rocket launchers anywhere safe.

 

[Joni]

Stupid separate question time: has ISIL/ISIS made any statements regarding this entire conflict? They seem like they could be a major player considering the stuff they found in Iraq and Syria.

Gaza is the 5th highest population per square mile city/area in the world with a population of 10,000 people per square miles. Its impossible to strategically place rocket launchers anywhere safe.

Well, they should be nice and only use their drones.

 

[Kagutaba]

And for the Israelis, the Palestinians are fodder. So fuck the Palestenians?

This isn't true, do you know many Israeli?

 

[LNBL]

This isn't true, do you know many Israeli?

My god.... Another one joins to deny any responsibility that Israel has in the death of the Palestinians.
I actually know some Israelis and more Palestinians, what's your point?

 

[StuKen]

This isn't true, do you know many Israeli?

The numbers seem to say otherwise. The land sea and air blockade of the territory seem to say otherwise. The control of water, power and sanitation within Gaza seem to say otherwise, which I'm sure you remember Israel refused to hand control over of during the last round of peace talks. Its a lot easier to rationalize a 200:1 kill ratio as kosher and not an inhuman abomination if you see them as nothing more than vermin.

 

[Joni]

This isn't true, do you know many Israeli?

Well, they're killing them like if they were red shirts, so maybe stop that.

 

[LNBL]

The White House invited the Israeli ambassador to the Iftar dinner and then gave him a podium to speak, where he said to the Muslim captive audience that Palestinians have "a cultural tendency towards belligerency" that is "deeply embedded in the culture of the Arab world and its foremost religion".

Seriously? The Iftar dinner is supposed to be an act of solidarity and respect, and you invite a guy who insults every Muslim there. Of course his speech was followed too by Obama's own defense of Israeli policy.

Smh. Somehow I doubt the White House would invite a Palestinian to a Shabbat dinner to criticise Israeli policy towards them.

Did he get applauded for this racist remark?

Btw, who were the Muslim attendants there?

 

[Maninthemirror]

lets do the numbers:

Hamas fires 50-100 unguided rockets a day, which results in 1 casualty in a week. People in Gaza are careful where they go as to not fall into the fighting

Israel fires a dozen guided missiles a day (less than a quarter of the rockets Hamas fires), which results in 200 casualties. People in Israel set up Patio chairs to enjoy the view of rockets landing in Gaza strip


This is like a kid throwing a pebble at a bully wearing a bullet proof vest and the bully using a steel baseball bat to beat the kid while he is on the ground.

 

[Chichikov]

This isn't true, do you know many Israeli?

The majority of Israelis cares very little about Palestinian casualties.

 

[Gustav]

lets do the numbers:

Hamas fires 50-100 unguided rockets a day, which results in 1 casualty in a week. People in Gaza are careful where they go as to not fall into the fighting

Israel fires a dozen guided missiles a day (less than a quarter of the rockets Hamas fires), which results in 200 casualties. People in Israel set up Patio chairs to enjoy the view of rockets landing in Gaza strip


This is like a kid throwing a pebble at a bully wearing a bullet proof vest and the bully using a steel baseball bat to beat the kid while he is on the ground.

It does not matter how many people they kill, it really, really, really, really, really doesn't. Firing a government sanctioned missile into a sovereign country is an act of war. There is no "Israel is allowed to defend itself at over 27 deaths" in this. Just no.

 

[GYODX]

lets do the numbers:

Hamas fires 50-100 unguided rockets a day, which results in 1 casualty in a week. People in Gaza are careful where they go as to not fall into the fighting

Israel fires a dozen guided missiles a day (less than a quarter of the rockets Hamas fires), which results in 200 casualties. People in Israel set up Patio chairs to enjoy the view of rockets landing in Gaza strip


This is like a kid throwing a pebble at a bully wearing a bullet proof vest and the bully using a steel baseball bat to beat the kid while he is on the ground.

And yet Hamas keeps firing rockets.

 

[Kagutaba]

The number of deaths on Palestinian side proves it's Israel that sees them as fodder.

What would you have the IDF do, missiles are launched almost daily against Tel Aviv. Israeli do die in these attacks or suffer post-traumatic stress disorder, what would your country's military do against daily rocket attacks hidden behind human shields? In the end it's the IDF's job to protect the Israeli people just as it's Hamas duty to protect it's own citizens. Hamas has these numbers as well and it's on them, as the government and defender of it's people, to see that their current way of warfare is leading to unacceptable civilian causalities without any benefits. But they will not. Because for Hamas every Israeli civilian killed by them, and every Palestinian killed by Israeli is a victory. Because they are a terror organization, they feed on this conflict, they want it.

 

[Kagutaba]

My god.... Another one joins to deny any responsibility that Israel has in the death of the Palestinians.
I actually know some Israelis and more Palestinians, what's your point?

My point is that most Israeli, don't hate Palestinians they hate Hamas.

 

[Chichikov]

What would you have the IDF do, missiles are launched almost daily against Tel Aviv. Israeli do die in these attacks or suffer post-traumatic stress disorder, what would your country's military do against daily rocket attacks hidden behind human shields? In the end it's the IDF's job to protect the Israeli people just as it's Hamas duty to protect it's own citizens. Hamas has these numbers as well and it's on them, as the government and defender of it's people, to see that their current way of warfare is leading to unacceptable civilian causalities without any benefits. But they will not. Because for Hamas every Israeli civilian killed by them, and every Palestinian killed by Israeli is a victory. Because they are a terror organization, they feed on this conflict, they want it.

What would you have the Palestinians do?
They are living under military occupation without basic human rights in the west bank and under crippling blockade in Gaza.

Also, Hamas is open to a 10 years truce.

My point is that most Israeli, don't hate Palestinians they hate Hamas.

A lot of Israelis hate Palestinians (and arabs in general).
But even those that don't, not a whole lot care too much about palestinian casualties.
If they did, they wouldn't overwhelmingly support mini-wars that kill so many of them.

 

[Cromat]

What would you have the Palestinians do?
They are living under military occupation without basic human rights in the west bank and under crippling blockade in Gaza.

Also, Hamas is open to a 10 years truce.

A lot of Israelis hate Palestinians (and arabs in general).
But even those that don't, not a whole lot care too much about palestinian casualties.
If they did, they wouldn't overwhelmingly support mini-wars that kill so many of them.

Heh well around one billion people want all Israelis to die basically so I don't think you're going to get far with this irrational hate contest.

 

[Quotient]

What would you have the Palestinians do?
They are living under military occupation without basic human rights in the west bank and under crippling blockade in Gaza.

Also, Hamas is open to a 10 years truce.

A lot of Israelis hate Palestinians (and arabs in general).
But even those that don't, not a whole lot care too much about palestinian casualties.
If they did, they wouldn't overwhelmingly support mini-wars that kill so many of them.

Hamas did reject a cease-fire agreement that Israel agreed to and upheld. At the end of the day it's their own people dying. Their resistance is not working. The world powers are behind Israel on it's "right to defend itself". Everything is in the Israeli's favor, Hamas needs to agree to a cease fire.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Hamas did reject a cease-fire agreement that Israel agreed to and upheld. At the end of the day it's their own people dying. Their resistance is not working. The world powers are behind Israel on it's "right to defend itself". Everything is in the Israeli's favor, Hamas needs to agree to a cease fire.

You are right. The argument by pro-Israeli groups have gone from right to exist to right to defend while Palestinians are now stuck with right to exist

 

[Joni]

Hamas did reject a cease-fire agreement that Israel agreed to and upheld. At the end of the day it's their own people dying. Their resistance is not working. The world powers are behind Israel on it's "right to defend itself". Everything is in the Israeli's favor, Hamas needs to agree to a cease fire.

Do you think Israel would agree to a cease-fire if it was proposed by ISIS and Syria? The regime of Egypt isn't friendly to Hamas, they can't expect an honest peace process with a party that hates them more than Israel. Don't forget Hamas was closely tied to the former Egyptian regime that was deposed and banished by the current one.

 

[Hyperactivity]

What are these "internal reasons"?

My guess is that there are more extremist hardliners in the group.

Here's the thing, should right or return, '67 borders, etc. all happen, the "Hamas will continue with rockets" argument doesn't work as much as in this situation'

A. There would be a split in the group between those satisfied with this and the hardliners, weakening the group

B. Public opinion would likely sway far against them should Hamas continue to endanger the terms they had just achieved

C. Less hardliners would be born as many of these people would have grown up in a situation where Israel=the guys who killed my family

etc, etc.

 

[Dude Abides]

Hamas did reject a cease-fire agreement that Israel agreed to and upheld. At the end of the day it's their own people dying. Their resistance is not working. The world powers are behind Israel on it's "right to defend itself". Everything is in the Israeli's favor, Hamas needs to agree to a cease fire.

Why? Typically Israel grants some concessions (that it later reneges on) in exchange for a cease-fire, like releasing Hamas prisoners or allowing Palestinian fishermen to go farther out or farmers to work land closer to the border. The rockets are Hamas's only leverage so it makes sense they'd keep it up until Israel offers something they see as worth having.