JordanN
Banned
It would be unfair to tell the Jews who were living there to leave or not be allowed to live there. It would be exactly like what the Palestinians are against happening to themselves now.
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Breaking: Israel launches Operation Protective Edge against Hamas in Gaza
- Thread starter RustyNails
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I agree with you mostly and I'll leave it at that.
BaronLundi
Member
I know many of you consider this aside off topic but since the news quoted above was reported and commented here I thought I had to give it a quick update.
Apparently there's a lot more to it than just an attack on a Synagogue (at least the one in Paris). The situation is confused but it seems very likely that extreme right Jewish groups/gangs (Betar and the likes) were involved in the incident and may actually have attacked or maybe provoked pro-palestinian demonstrators who may (or may not) have been heading toward the Synagogue.
The only good article I've found about the whole thing (one that actually shows some investigation has been done) is unfortunately in French only.
http://www.itele.fr/france/video/incidents-rue-de-la-roquette-deux-versions-sopposent-88564
This doesn't change the fact that tension is undoubtedly growing in France and that verbal and/or physical violence against the French Jewish community is still and again an outlet for anger but I thought important to revisit the subject since correction was due.
As opposed to what happens when the Israeli's murder Americans. I believe that total is somewhere north of 30. Israel remains the only country to have attacked a US warship and absolutely nothing punitive happen to them, and no it wasn't an accident.
one of the 3 Israeli teens murdered a month or so ago actually had US citizenship, i don't think the US particularly cares when its citizens are killed to be honest.
They did pay over $17 million. And considering it was most likely an accident what else would have been justified? I mean, what could the Israeli's have possibly gained by attacking a U.S. vessel?
How is this different than what happened to the Jews in the first place? You do realize that they were conquered, and forced to leave 500 years before Palestine even existed, right?
Welcome to being the loser in a war.
Nobody was forcing the Jews who were living there to leave.
Two wrongs make a right?
It was flying a US flag, was clearly identified previously. It got strafed multiple times by two different flights of Israeli bombers and then machine gunned and torpedo'd by torpedo boats from close visual range.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
If only we had something called international law being developed during that period.
curlyfriski
Banned
Jesus. You're following a code of morality lifted directly from the Bronze Age.
The problem is now there is more than just one culture that has long historic ties to the region. It is a region that ethically must be shared to some extent by multiple cultures. As a pure result of history it is not the land exclusively belonging to any one group. No matter who asserts it.
The moral way to peace will require some degree of sharing. The immoral way is unthinkable.
Dragon1893
Member
Watching footage of children scared to death and wondering what is happening to them, trying to imagine what they must be going through and how confused they must be... It breaks my heart.
So many innocent lifes lost, god only knows how much some of them suffered before dying, what a fucked up world we live in.
So many innocent lifes lost, god only knows how much some of them suffered before dying, what a fucked up world we live in.
The UN tried to share the region by creating Israel in the first place. They were immediately attacked and have been ever since. You can't poke a bear with a stick and then get mad when it takes over your campground. If the Arab nations surrounding Israel had left well enough alone in the 20's they wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
It is horrible, but that's what happens when terrorists set up shop in one of the most densely populated areas in the world and hide behind women and children to take pot shots at their enemies. Organizations like Hamas know full well that civilians will die, and in fact they welcome it to further their agenda in the region.
Israel-Gaza ceasefire deal 'reached'
No confirmation from Israel/Hamas yet.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28344637
No confirmation from Israel/Hamas yet.
Cheesecakebobby
Banned
They keep hitting a new low in this thread.
I thought the claim that disabled people were protecting weapons would be the lowest we would see in this thread, i'm certain it will not be at this point.
In other news:
http://www.worldbulletin.net/world/140840/chile-to-suspend-trade-talks-with-israel-over-gaza-bombing
theignoramus
Member
Gemüsepizza;121339126 said:
that actually is the US government's line on this tragedy. quite the terrible bit of moral deflection, but there you have it.
Inocent people dying is always unfortunate and heartbreaking, but here is a quote from Nato that I completely agree with:
Thay said that after an attack which at least 32 people are reported to have died
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/357355.stm
Thay said that after an attack which at least 32 people are reported to have died
Lamel
Banned
I agree with the quote it will take a lot of losses before the Israeli government is defeated.
haha
Yes...because clearly war is a game with winners and losers. Might as well throw in cheat codes and extra lives as well you insensitive prick.
dripdripsplash
Member
Hear hear.
Good on Chile with that boycott too. That's what we need.
Also how was the killing of the four children playing football justified ? I just woke up.
theignoramus
Member
they may not deliberately target innocents, but they would appear to be largely indifferent about the innocents killed by their bombs. Their public statements and choice of targets belies any claim about a genuine concern for civilian life and well being.
Suppose some government agent chasing a suspect down a crowded public street fired a weapon wantonly and recklessly at his suspect, hitting scores of civilians as a result. In the aftermath, nobody would give a damn that he didnt mean to hit innocents. We would regard his decision as reckless, morally bankrupt, and deserving of legal repercussions.
Is this sarcasm? I hope it's sarcasm. It's pretty fucking evident that they don't care.
And apparantly, the fact that they don't care means it's all Hamas fault they died if i am to believe some of the posters in this thread. :-/
QuicheFontaine
Member
But the maths doesn't add up. At the current ratio of 227 dead Palestinians per 1 Israeli, the entire Gaza Strip would be wiped out at the cost of 8,000 Israelis. The West Bank would be wiped out at the cost of just under 12,000 Israelis.
Dont underestimate the things Hamas will do in order to gain international support.
By the way guys, watch this video and tell me what you think:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODun6secqlg
This was after operation Cast Lead.
You do realize that history doesn't give anyone a free pass to kill children, right? Is this not a civilization in the 21st century? For a country that has access to every telecommunication server route in Palestine, Israel actually has quite bad intelligence about Gaza. The Israeli navy thought it was bombarding militants when it was actually just shelling a civilian beach with little children running around on it. The amount of people that can run through mental hoops to justify this is getting fewer and fewer.
dripdripsplash
Member
"Terror activists"
"Terror activities"
Vague bullshit.
At least it's liberating to hear the debate in the British Parlament on Israel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AJWNE83j__k
I hear what i've been reading from the Israel apologists in this same thread.
Civilian deaths are human error and all blame falls on Hamas.
JordanN
Banned
Yes it is.
Good to hear many actually do see what is going on there and are questioning the actions of their government.
From parliament: "Do not equate the occupied with the occupier" - that's a good summation of the general mood over here, even in the Jewish neighbourhood where I live!
We can't say "both sides are wrong"/"they both need to stop the attacks"/etc because one side is the occupier ignoring all internationally accepted boundaries, and the other side are freedom fighters with no support just wanting to stop the systematic land grabs with any means they have.
dripdripsplash
Member
Dude it was terror activists and their damn activities... of terror!
The IDF doesn't care.
Most people responding to your repeated questions of this has already answered: '67 borders, with a sovereign Palestinian state with E. Jerusalem as it's capital, is a good way to end the conflict.
JordanN
Banned
Just so my post doesn't get distorted to oblivion.
Nobody wants to justify killing kids (in fact, none of my posts do. Just making it clear right now). It was a direct response to the IDF calling the death of any innocents "tragic". You don't see Hamas feeling sorry for any civilians they kill.
I think a good way to start working towards a solution would be for Israel's government to actually negotiate with Hamas. What they're asking for isn't unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination and Israel has entirely wasted whatever goodwill they had generated over the past decades by indiscriminately bombing Gaza as if it's a solution to anything.
If they so truly believe that Hamas cannot be trusted and will continue shelling no matter what, then prove that to the world.
Right now the IDF just looks like a group of bloodthirsty thugs.
dripdripsplash
Member
It's amazing how much you turn to hasbara at each and every IDF action.
"Well IDF said it's tragic, and Hamas doesn't, so it's all allright!"
Get a fucking grip dude.
Everyone repeats the same few points but you know that won't happen. I did say realistic solution. Do you honestly believe that Israel will give the Palestinians east Jerusalem and go back to 67 borders. The Israelis have all the power in negotiations.
Are there other options?
Hamas themselves haven't done anything either to earn the goodwill of the Israelis, instead they have hardened the right and weakened the left.
The consession to Israel here is that they wouldn't have to let the palestinians who owns property in Israel back, and the stolen property would remain stolen.
Other than that, there's the one state solution. Not much else.
But yeah, Israel aren't interested, just like the apartheid regime in SA were'nt interested until they were sanctioned into being interested.
Has anyone else seen the IDF soldier AMA on Reddit? Seems like a nice enough guy, pity there aren't more like him in higher places on both sides.
dripdripsplash
Member
Well what do you think could be a solution ?
Hamas has weakened the left ? The Oslo accord was the death sentence by Israel to the peace movement inside Israel. The Israelis has weakened the left, not Hamas.
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