This is disgusting and its so apparent that our media is controlled.
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Breaking: Israel launches Operation Protective Edge against Hamas in Gaza
- Thread starter RustyNails
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This is disgusting and its so apparent that our media is controlled.
It's not. Hamas is more or less Palestine's Taliban. That being said, Israel is much better equipped to defend itself against missile attacks than Palestine is.
A Black Falcon
Member
Demanding the 1967 borders is an obvious nonstarter and anyone saying that they must have them is not seriously interested in peace.
If you don't understand that Hamas doesn't care much at all about their peoples' suffering then read up about Hamas. Unlike Hamas, Israel does try to do what it can to reduce civilian casualties, while Hamas wants them to be as high as possible.
You can stop right there, because what Hamas is asking for is completely unacceptable -- they want the borders opened up so they can fully rearm for their next attack, which would be worse and more effective than this one because of being able to get better weapons in. Not going to happen.
Indeed.
They'd probably get the settlement areas that are beyond the security wall, much like happened in Gaza after Israel gave up its settlements there. It's quite unlikely that Israel would be able to keep all settlements in place in a real peace treaty.
The argument in the US is between those who support Israel's right to defend itself and hope for a two-state solution, but also quietly kind of wish that the Israeli government would be less conservative (Obama's relationship with Netanyahu has been troubled) and that they could reduce civilian casualties even more, versus those who support anything any Israeli, no matter how radical, says. Obama has been criticized by some to his right for not being sufficiently pro-Israel during this war, though he said after this started that Israel has a right to defend itself.
No. All politicians side with Israel. The only question is to the degree. An anti-Israel politician would never, EVER get elected. Before World War II America was somewhat anti-Semitic, but that all changed after we found the death camps, and any significant lingering anti-Semitism was done away with by the civil rights movement. Today there are more Jewish people living in the US than there are in Israel, so they're an important constituency, and only a small minority have any anti-Semitic feelings. Probably the biggest debate about Israel in the US is, can you criticize Israel and not be anti-Semitic? The Anti-Defamation League (very powerful group) says no, that just about any criticism of Israel is antisemitic. The critics, mostly on the far left, say that they can criticize Israel but not Jews in general. I'm not sure, myself... I do think that there's probably some antisemitism behind a lot of the criticism Israel gets from the international community. It's either that or a loss of attention to the problem -- most of the rest of the world has relatively few Jewish people, after all, since over 80% of them live in the US and Israel. The US, with significant populations of both Jews and Muslims, has a better perspective here. I'm in neither group myself, but follow politics closely so naturally you hear a lot about the region.
Anyway, it's horrible that some nations today, and so many people here, seem to care more about allowing terrorists freer reign to attack Israel than they do supporting a nations' right to protect itself, but fortunately America will never listen to those people. Of course the constant warrfare is horrible and sad, but this is why a real peace treaty is so important! Both sides will need to make compromises they don't want to make -- restricting the further advance of settlements on the Jewish side and giving up on the '67 borders and East Jerusalem as a capital on the Palestinian side -- but someday the deal will get made, I think. It should be sooner rather than later, because the longer the Palestinians wait, the less of the West Bank they'll probably get due to the constant advance of settlements... even if they're pulled back to the wall, if any more wall pieces are built between now and this prospective peace, those won't be returned I imagine.
I know, people here will focus exclusively on how much the Palestinian people are suffering. But remember, this whole thing happened because they refused to accept the concept of Israel, refused every attempt at compromise, went to war repeatedly with Israel, losing more territory each time, and now still refuse to accept the terms required to make peace. That there are still "refugees" living in camps, as if they'll go home someday after they successfully kill all the Jews or something, is absolutely ludicrous! As for "but it used to be Arab territory", lots of territories change hands over the years. Look at the major changes made to the map of Europe after World War II, for example! Poland moved west, Germany lost its eastern part, etc. There was a lot of chaos in the short term, but everyone got used to the new map after a while. Germany is not still housing refugee camps for the poor displaced East Prussians, and nor is Poland for those Poles who used to live in what is now Ukraine or Belarus, Italians or Austrians who used to live in Slovenia before the early 20th century, etc.
Nobody is saying it's ok for Hamas to do that. People are saying Israel is killing civilians and those are the facts.
Facism
Member
the phrasing of his post indicates he really doesn't give a shit.
It's almost as if they're influenced by the interests of one side in this bloodshed.
Israel has a rocket shield. 98% of the rockets don't even breach airspace because they're shot down. They have the Star Wars shield Russia and the US both want. The rockets haven't killed anyone today, or yesterday, or anyone this week. If they want to kill people, Hamas uses their drones which can't be stopped by the shield.
ramuh
Member
That doesn't justify rocket fire though. That's like me shooting at you to kill you and either missing or you have a shield up and it blocks most of the bullets. It doesn't excuse it. Both sides share blame.
Interceptor
Banned
Notice: If you have to build a billion dollar shield (which btw is not even close to 98%) because of rockets fired randomly at your citizens - then it is ok to fire rockets at random at citizens. Awesome logic.
They absolutely do, though the Israel apologists fail to recognize that Israel is responsible for killing those civilians. Rather they put the sole blame on Hamas, that's the core of this lengthy discussion in this thread.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I'm glad you know his views on the conflict and the reason behind the decision. And not basing your judgement on his ethnic heritage/religion.
That's the problem. Israel doesn't share the blame in the mass media. They're scrutinized by free-thinking people on the internet while the mainstream media feeds the rhetoric of the barbarous muslims being to blame for everything to the rest of the ignorant masses.
ramuh
Member
Oh we agree. Both sides do have equal blame. They did kill those civilians and Hamas did fire discriminate rocket fire into Israel. The question is what can they do about it? I would say the normal exchange rocket fire/bombings and then a few years of peace isn't cutting it.
Saying Hamas is using their rockets to kill people is just ignoring the truth, the shield is there and Hamas' efforts are largely stopped by it. The statistic was used by Benjamin Netanyahu and the IDF.
RustyNails
Member
I agree. Hamas shouldn't fire the indiscriminate rockets into Israel airspace. If they want to be respected like a responsible government, they should act like a responsible government. They should be held responsible. But the issue is the disproportionality. Israel wants to paint the rockets as destructive nuclear warheads capable of destroying the whole country when they are anything but. A big bunch of them die on the desert on their way to target. Buildings being cosmetically damaged in Tel Aviv is in no way comparable to Israel's million dollar (US taxpayer funded ofcourse) bunker busters obliterating buildings and civilians in them, leading to 100 children dead so far.
Edit:
I didn't mean it that bluntly. I was wrong by making some really bold, logical leaps there. No, not a bigot or a racist or anything of that sort. Got caught up in this story like everyone else. Sorry if I offended.
like.. the one side that their country donates billions to.. hmm.
RustyNails
Member
Israel can end this conflict tomorrow. All they have to do is take up Arab Peace Initiative.
phalestine
aka iby.h
writing a history book are we?
ramuh
Member
But what do you say that Israel will not negotiate any peace settlement with a US, EU, Jordan, and Egypt designated terrorist organization? Maybe only talk to Fatah? But if Fatah can't govern Gaza, how is any lasting peace going to happen? Hamas won't give that power up.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
As I said a few pages ago, I'm glad they are finally changing course and going with ground.
IDF will be suspending rocket fire as ground troops prepare to infiltrate instead.
"@IDF: Our goal is to target Hamas' tunnels that enable terrorists to infiltrate Israel and carry out attacks. This requires precise operations."
"UNRWA: We found 20 rockets in one of our schools in Gaza http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school "
IDF will be suspending rocket fire as ground troops prepare to infiltrate instead.
"@IDF: Our goal is to target Hamas' tunnels that enable terrorists to infiltrate Israel and carry out attacks. This requires precise operations."
"UNRWA: We found 20 rockets in one of our schools in Gaza http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school "
Interceptor
Banned
Nice Syrian stairway. But i guess the picture without a comment should suggest it was a recent bombing in Gaza to show the horrors the idf is capable of. The jews should be ashamed of bombing stairways in Syria.
ramuh
Member
So they are hiding rockets in UNRWA installations. I don't think that is a surprise to anyone.
RustyNails
Member
There are ways of dealing with enemies who don't see eye to eye. Look at current talks in Vienna. But Hamas has to be involved in one way or another, otherwise the conflict will keep rearing it's head. It has happened in Ireland, and it has happened in South Africa. Even today despite Egypt, US and UK's protests, Hamas officials are there in Cairo to keep the talks going. Also keep in mind that Hamas has not agreed to API because it contains land swap. So if Israel agrees to it, you can bet that Hamas will be under tremendous pressure to the point of complete and utter isolation.
gutter_trash
Banned
journalism in the US has been dead since June 1st 1980
Yoda
Member
Last time this happened there were reports of hitting schools.
sindbadthesailor
Member
But don't say it's apartheid.
#BBCtrending: Are #GazaUnderAttack images accurate?
I suppose this is the sort of "biased" BBC reporting people were complaining about.
Oh it is from Syria? I had no idea. It popped up on my news feed and I assumed it was from Gaza and thought it was interesting that the stairs are the only thing that didn't get demolished
curlyfriski
Banned
Some recent updates from the Guardian:
Death toll is going to spiral with a ground invasion.
Death toll is going to spiral with a ground invasion.
I don't see anything about that. Maybe stop posting unconfirmed crap from social media?
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Stuff like this, and Pilgor's "pollywood" comments are truly appalling to me. No way am I having a discussion about the current affairs on this level. The same goes for the Malaysian aircraft conspiracy guys of course.
That's the only thing bothering you today?
Discotheque
Banned
Go back to sleep
curlyfriski
Banned
Just remember, any criticism of Israel is antisemitic. And wanting to return to your homeland means desiring genocide.
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