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[KtSlime]

Really, mate?

Gaza is no Auschwitz.

You should really think a bit more about the descriptions and nouns you use.

Disappointing.

Not all concentration camps have to be as extreme as Auschwitz, however they are all still wrong.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Israel occupying a population and keeping them under a blockade, all the while slowly stealing their land is tad bit higher on the crime scale than ethical grief.

This bullshit needs to stop.

1. Israel does not occupy Gaza. Israel uprooted every last Jew, including digging up graves, from the strip in 2005 in an effort to further the peace process. They handed over vast infrastructure and towns for future development, all of which were promptly turned into bases from which to launch rockets on innocent civilians.

2. The blockade of Gaza is also upheld by Egypt and was found to be legal under international law by the Palmer Report. The blockade exists to prevent Iran providing their proxy in the region (Hamas) with weapons designed to perpetuate the suffering on both sides.

3. "Slowly stealing their land" is a myth, a red herring of the armchair commentators. Have you ever been to the region to see things for yourself? Have you seen the settlements? Never mind the fact Israel hasn't built a new settlement in decades and has had a de facto freeze on settlement building for a long time, even the Arabs agree Israel will keep their settlement blocs in a future agreement, Why can't there be natural growth (which there isn't)?

4. None of the above justifies the terrorism, the religious Jihads, the decades of daily threats to the lives of Jews that started long before there was even a state of Israel

Not all concentration camps have to be as extreme as Auschwitz, however they are all still wrong.

Gaza is not a concentration camp.

 

[Toxi]

Really, mate?

Gaza is no Auschwitz.

You should really think a bit more about the descriptions and nouns you use.

Disappointing.

Concentration camps were not invented by the Nazis.

 

[FlyinJ]

This bullshit needs to stop.

3. "Slowly stealing their land" is a myth, a red herring of the armchair commentators. Have you ever been to the region to see things for yourself? Have you seen the settlements? Never mind the fact Israel hasn't built a new settlement in decades and has had a de facto freeze on settlement building for a long time, even the Arabs agree Israel will keep their settlement blocs in a future agreement, Why can't there be natural growth (which there isn't)?

Lets just start with this one.

You are seriously claiming that the Israeli government isn't providing security and police support for the dozens of illegal settlements that have been established over the past two decades in the West Bank? It's all some armchair commentator bullshit?

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Lets just start with this one.

How convenient.

You are seriously claiming that the Israeli government isn't providing security and police support for the dozens of illegal settlements that have been established over the past two decades in the West Bank? It's all some armchair commentator bullshit?

I never claimed that at all.

 

[KtSlime]

Hix, I may have you confused with another gaffer, but don't you live in Golan Heights? If not, I'm sorry for the accusation. As to the mall, just because you allow your captives to have some basic human needs and luxuries, does not make them no longer captives. The US didn't mass execute Japanese captives in our concentration camps, and they were treated relatively 'well', fed, housed, clothed, but it was still wrong, and I like to think that most US citizens would agree that it was the wrong decision to make and are now remorseful.

 

[RustyNails]

This bullshit needs to stop.

1. Israel does not occupy Gaza. Israel uprooted every last Jew, including digging up graves, from the strip in 2005 in an effort to further the peace process. They handed over vast infrastructure and towns for future development, all of which were promptly turned into bases from which to launch rockets on innocent civilians.

2. The blockade of Gaza is also upheld by Egypt and was found to be legal under international law by the Palmer Report. The blockade exists to prevent Iran providing their proxy in the region (Hamas) with weapons designed to perpetuate the suffering on both sides.

3. "Slowly stealing their land" is a myth, a red herring of the armchair commentators. Have you ever been to the region to see things for yourself? Have you seen the settlements? Never mind the fact Israel hasn't built a new settlement in decades and has had a de facto freeze on settlement building for a long time, even the Arabs agree Israel will keep their settlement blocs in a future agreement, Why can't there be natural growth (which there isn't)?

4. None of the above justifies the terrorism, the religious Jihads, the decades of daily threats to the lives of Jews that started long before there was even a state of Israel

Here's the part where we go in circles, and we keep repeating ourselves. This is probably the 10th or 11th time me and others have addressed these exact same points which get repeated every few pages. So instead I will address this post in a different way, not even addressing Palmer report's contents. You are waving the Palmer report at my face and it seems that you are very happy with it. Do you accept what UN considers legal? It seems you do, because you agree with Palmer report. Because if you do, I have a few other things that UN considers illegal, and one of those is occupation of Gaza. You said Gaza is not occupied, and I am sad to inform you that the same UN that said the *naval* blockade to detect arms smuggling is legal, said that Gaza is under occupation.

Under resolutions adopted by both the Security Council and the General Assembly on the Middle East peace process, the Gaza Strip continues to be regarded as part of the Occupied Palestinian Territory. The United Nations will accordingly continue to refer to the Gaza Strip as part of the Occupied Palestinian Territory until such time as either the General Assembly or the Security Council take a different view.

Question: Can I follow up on that? It is the legal definition of occupation and why is Gaza considered occupied?

Spokesperson: Well, as I have just said, there are Security Council and General Assembly resolutions that cover this. For example, there was a Security Council resolution adopted on 8 January 2009 — 1860 — and that stressed that the Gaza Strip constitutes an integral part of the territory occupied in 1967. And as you know, Security Council resolutions do have force in international law.

Furthermore, there is a resolution from the General Assembly from 20 December 2010, and while it noted the Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and parts of the northern West Bank, it also stressed, in quotes, “the need for respect and preservation of the territorial unity, contiguity and integrity of all of the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem”. So just to repeat that the United Nations will continue to refer to the Gaza Strip as part of the Occupied Palestinian Territory until either the General Assembly or the Security Council take a different view on the matter.

Gaza is occupied. It's potable water is occupied. It's food supply is occupied. It's emergency services are occupied. It's building materials are occupied, so when Israel destroys them, Gazans cannot rebuild them. It's electricity is occupied. Meaning, all these things are at the mercy of the occupier state: Israel. Do you deny Israel controls Gaza's utilities and the freedom of it's people? This is the definition of occupation. I don't get the 3rd point where you're saying there hasn't been growth in settlement activity in decades. It's obviously not true so I'm thinking you meant something else.

P.S, Israel did no one any fucking favors by digging up it's illegal graveyards and moving it. Don't act like it did. Cry me a fucking river. It was illegal, wrong and a crime to occupy the people's land. Once you get kicked out, don't cry and become a big fat baby about it.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Hix, I may have you confused with another gaffer, but don't you live in Golan Heights? If not, I'm sorry for the accusation.

I wish! It's lovely up there.

I live in Jerusalem.

As to the mall, just because you allow your captives to have some basic human needs and luxuries, does not make them no longer captives. The US didn't mass execute Japanese captives in our concentration camps, and they were treated relatively 'well', fed, housed, clothed, but it was still wrong, and I like to think that most US citizens would agree that it was the wrong decision to make and are now remorseful.

I don't necessarily disagree, but calling Gaza a concentration camp is simply wrong.

Gaza is occupied. It's potable water is occupied. It's food supply is occupied. It's emergency services are occupied. It's building materials are occupied, so when Israel destroys them, Gazans cannot rebuild them. It's electricity is occupied. Meaning, all these things are at the mercy of the occupier state: Israel. Do you deny Israel controls Gaza's utilities and the freedom of it's people? This is the definition of occupation. I don't get the 3rd point where you're saying there hasn't been growth in settlement activity in decades. It's obviously not true so I'm thinking you meant something else.

P.S, Israel did no one any fucking favors by digging up it's illegal graveyards and moving it. Don't act like it did. Cry me a fucking river. It was illegal, wrong and a crime to occupy the people's land. Once you get kicked out, don't cry and become a big fat baby about it.

1. Gaza can't afford to provide electricity, water and other amenities of it's own. These are provided free of charge by Israel.

2. Thousands of tons of aid, including building materials, are provided to Gaza every day. Thousands of tons of weapons and materials for making weapons are stopped though.

3. I said there hasn't been any "new" settlements built in decades. There has been growth to existing settlements, though this too has ground to a halt. Even building that is announced never ends up actually happening, the settlements are choked and the prices are sky-rocketing.

P.S. We didn't get kicked out, we left ourselves. We even left our World famous 200 million dollar a year greenhouses to stimulate the economy in Gaza. Hamas elected to have these turned into rocket launching sites instead, to kill innocent civilians.

 

[RustyNails]

I1. Gaza can't afford to provide electricity, water and other amenities of it's own. These are provided free of charge by Israel.

2. Thousands of tons of aid, including building materials, are provided to Gaza every day. Thousands of tons of weapons and materials for making weapons are stopped though.

Of course it can't, because Its. Under. Occupation. End the occupation, let the Palestinians take care of their own business.

3. I said there hasn't been any "new" settlements built in decades. There has been growth to existing settlements, though this too has ground to a halt. Even building that is announced never ends up actually happening, the settlements are choked and the prices are sky-rocketing.

I'm not seeing how settlement building has "ground to a halt", as I distinctly remember Netanyahu announcing a NEW settlement construction in the occupied territories. It's all moot anyway, as all those settlements both new and old, are illegal.

P.S. We didn't get kicked out, we left ourselves. We even left our World famous 200 million dollar a year greenhouses to stimulate the economy in Gaza. Hamas elected to have these turned into rocket launching sites instead, to kill innocent civilians.

Israel didn't wake up one day and said "Hey guys, lets leave Gaza". It was due to decades of strife, both violent and diplomatic, that forced Israel to disengage. So yes, the Palestinians and the international bodies forced Israel to leave, as it did not do out of it's own volition. Also not sure what the point is about the greenhouse thing. I mean, let's see what happens when you drop a 200 million dollar fancy greenhouse in the middle of a poor, oppressed population with 40% unemployment.

 

[TarNaru33]

I live in Jerusalem.

ah, now we can hear from someone who actually lives there. Glad you joined the thread, would be interesting hearing your perspective.

 

[Chaplain]

Dennis Prager explains the entire history of the Israel-Arab conflict in 5 minutes.

The Middle East Problem

The Middle East conflict is framed as one of the most complex problems in the world. But, in reality, it's very simple. Israelis want to live in peace and are willing to accept a neighboring Palestinian state. And most Palestinians do not want Israel to exist. As Dennis Prager explains, this is really all you need to know. In 5 minutes, understand how Israel was founded, and how, since that auspicious day in 1948, its neighbors have tried to destroy it, again and again.

 

[Terra Firma]

Dennis Prager explains the entire history of the Israel-Arab conflict in 5 minutes.

The Middle East Problem

Nice drive by post. Do you have anything to contribute except for something that not even the Israel apologists in this thread believe? Let me guess, you're an evangelical Christian rooting for Israel so you can be raptured up, right?

 

[Chaplain]

Nice drive by post. Do you have anything to contribute except for something that not even the Israel apologists in this thread believe? Let me guess, you're an evangelical Christian rooting for Israel so you can be raptured up, right?

I "root" for peace. Those that kill for the sake of killing (click on link for an example of what I mean) must be stopped.

 

[marrec]

I "root" for peace. Those that kill for the sake of killing (click on link for an example of what I mean) must be stopped.

That Dennis Prager video is hilariously wrong in almost everything it explains. If you root for peace as you say, then you should educate yourself on something other than obvious and decades old propaganda.

 

[Hitokage]

3. "Slowly stealing their land" is a myth, a red herring of the armchair commentators. Have you ever been to the region to see things for yourself? Have you seen the settlements? Never mind the fact Israel hasn't built a new settlement in decades and has had a de facto freeze on settlement building for a long time, even the Arabs agree Israel will keep their settlement blocs in a future agreement, Why can't there be natural growth (which there isn't)?

I find it amazing how you slipped in a defense of new settlements while denying their existence.

 

[Oersted]

Not all concentration camps have to be as extreme as Auschwitz, however they are all still wrong.

The sad thing is you are serious.

 

[Terra Firma]

I "root" for peace. Those that kill for the sake of killing (click on link for an example of what I mean) must be stopped.

No, you root for "peace" which means the murder of thousands of civilians so that your messiah can come down and whisk you away while the Jews and Muslims fight it out.

Peace is supposed to mean peace for all parties involved. And as I said, not even the Israeli apologists believe the obvious propaganda piece that you've posted.

And for this link that you have just posted...if you even tried following this thread, you'd realize that there were journalists right there by the beach who did not see any Hamas missile launchers or even attacks being carried out from that location. They even played a bit of soccer with the kids before they went to their hotels right by the beach, only to see the kids being blown to pieces.

 

[Buzzman]

The sad thing is you are serious.

Yeah I wouldn't call it a concentration camp, more like a ghetto.

 

[phalestine]

This bullshit needs to stop.

1. Israel does not occupy Gaza. Israel uprooted every last Jew, including digging up graves, from the strip in 2005 in an effort to further the peace process. They handed over vast infrastructure and towns for future development, all of which were promptly turned into bases from which to launch rockets on innocent civilians.

2. The blockade of Gaza is also upheld by Egypt and was found to be legal under international law by the Palmer Report. The blockade exists to prevent Iran providing their proxy in the region (Hamas) with weapons designed to perpetuate the suffering on both sides.

3. "Slowly stealing their land" is a myth, a red herring of the armchair commentators. Have you ever been to the region to see things for yourself? Have you seen the settlements? Never mind the fact Israel hasn't built a new settlement in decades and has had a de facto freeze on settlement building for a long time, even the Arabs agree Israel will keep their settlement blocs in a future agreement, Why can't there be natural growth (which there isn't)?

4. None of the above justifies the terrorism, the religious Jihads, the decades of daily threats to the lives of Jews that started long before there was even a state of Israel



Gaza is not a concentration camp.

Yes this bullshit does need to stop, according to who is gaza not occupied? According to israel, the occupier? Please, the UN still considers gaza occupied and that's because IT IS.

 

[Chaplain]

That Dennis Prager video is hilariously wrong in almost everything it explains. If you root for peace as you say, then you should educate yourself on something other than obvious and decades old propaganda.

Is using logical fallacies like Hasty Generalization and Ad hominem the best way to open up a serious discussion?

 

[RiZ III]

This new push by Israelis to claim there is no occupation is the height of hypocrisy. What, so they really think they can just cool the whole world into believing this?? As for Gaza, I'd say the occupation there is worse than in the West Bank. The siege has imprisoned millions of people. It's literally like an old school school siege where an army would enclose a city and just watch the people starve and turn to desperation.

 

[Dude Abides]

I find it amazing how you slipped in a defense of new settlements while denying their existence.

He lives in one, so it isn't that surprising.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

Dennis Prager explains the entire history of the Israel-Arab conflict in 5 minutes.

The Middle East Problem

Someone already posted this, and I quoted the exact part you did to make fun of the video as absurdly biased, over-simplified bullshit. You seem to think it's a perfectly legitimate explanation to say, "Israel good, Palestine bad, simple as that"? That's...amazing.

 

[Hitokage]

He lives in one, so it isn't that surprising.

Enjoying that lebensraum, huh.

 

[Terra Firma]

Is using logical fallacies like Hasty Generalization and Ad hominem the best way to open up a serious discussion?

Wow, you're complaining about "Hasty Generalization" when the video you posted makes the entire Israeli-Palestinian conflict seem like some Star Wars plot.

 

[marrec]

Is using logical fallacies like Hasty Generalization and Ad hominem the best way to open up a serious discussion?

The video you post purports to explain a 50+ year old conflict in 5 minutes. You opened up your part of the discussion by posting a video that has already been posted in this thread a few times and has already been laughed off a few times.

I'm all for viewing the conflict from the Israeli side, but Dennis Prager is doing more harm than good with his lies.

 

[genjiZERO]

Not to reduce the tragedy of the Ukraine incident, but I hope it doesn't overshadow Israel's continued aggression and murdering of civilians in Gaza. It's my fear that it will.

 

[besada]

Is using logical fallacies like Hasty Generalization and Ad hominem the best way to open up a serious discussion?

It didn't appear you came for serious discussion. It appears you came to drop off a ridiculous video from a known bigot. Said video is either one of the most insincere apologia for Israel I've ever seen, or just profoundly ignorant of international law, history, and the situation in the middle east.

 

[Pollux]

I'll admit that I don't know a damn thing about this conflict, but why is Jerusalem divided and why shouldn't it be under the complete control of Israel?

For the record, I'm in favor of declaring Jerusalem an international territory and world heritage site.

 

[Joni]

Gaza is no Auschwitz.

Auschwitz technically isn't a concentration camp, it is an extermination camp. The concept of concentration camps predates World War II and have always been viewed as camps to hold specific groups of 'undesirable' people in camps while limitting their rights, access to hygiene, ... Nazi Germany used to distinguish the two. Some concentration camps were attached to an extermination camp, but you had extermination camps without concentration camps and vice-versa.

 

[Renzoku]

I wish! It's lovely up there.

I live in Jerusalem.

And based on all of your posts clearly don't have a biased view on things or a dog in this race.

 

[Barbacoatl]

I'll admit that I don't know a damn thing about this conflict, but why is Jerusalem divided and why shouldn't it be under the complete control of Israel?

For the record, I'm in favor of declaring Jerusalem an international territory and world heritage site.

Let's make the vatican international territory while we're at it.

 

[Nikodemos]

The concept of concentration camps predates World War II and have always been viewed as camps to hold specific groups of 'undesirable' people in camps while limitting their rights, access to hygiene, ....

Indeed. Concentration camps are, in fact, a British creation from the Second Boer War.

 

[Terra Firma]

I'll admit that I don't know a damn thing about this conflict, but why is Jerusalem divided and why shouldn't it be under the complete control of Israel?

For the record, I'm in favor of declaring Jerusalem an international territory and world heritage site.

Jerusalem houses the Aqsa mosque, which is sacred to Muslims. Israel does not distinguish between East and West Jerusalem. The UN and Palestine do. The UN did not give the city to Israel in 1948. In 1948, after the war had ended, Jordan took over the eastern part, while Israel took over the western part. After the 1967 war, Israel took over the entire city.

Israel also has built a wall that effectively separates Jerusalem in its entirety from the rest of the West Bank.

The legality of Israeli action is questionable at best.

 

[genjiZERO]

I'll admit that I don't know a damn thing about this conflict, but why is Jerusalem divided and why shouldn't it be under the complete control of Israel?

For the record, I'm in favor of declaring Jerusalem an international territory and world heritage site.

Because East Jerusalem is simply Palestinian territory and Israel seized it and put a wall up. I've been to Jerusalem, seen the wall and stayed in a neighborhood that was literally divided in two by it.

 

[Joni]

Let's make the vatican international territory while we're at it.

Vatican City is already an internationally recognized country independent from any other nation.

 

[marrec]

I'll admit that I don't know a damn thing about this conflict, but why is Jerusalem divided and why shouldn't it be under the complete control of Israel?

For the record, I'm in favor of declaring Jerusalem an international territory and world heritage site.

You have to go waaay back to understand it completely, but for a more modern understanding of why Jerusalem is 'divided' you would only need to go back to the 1st world war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine

And work your way forward from there.

 

[Freeman]

I think Israel is surprisingly patient, most other countries if they had the same military superiority wound't take this for so long. I wonder if the roles were reversed what would happen.

The frustrating thing is that there is hardly any indication of this ever being solved, even though everyone would benefit from it.

 

[KtSlime]

The sad thing is you are serious.

If it's wrong to think corralling people is if they were animals is immoral, then I don't want to be right.

Yeah I wouldn't call it a concentration camp, more like a ghetto.

It's both, ghetto would be a good description, but I wasn't aware that (and I may be wrong here) most ghettos have such strict barriers, checkpoints, and curfews.

 

[BaronLundi]

If it's wrong to think corralling people is if they were animals is immoral, then I don't want to be right.



It's both, ghetto would be a good description, but I wasn't aware that (and I may be wrong here)most ghettos have such strict barriers, checkpoints, and curfews.

It's exactly what a ghetto has been since the one in Venice (and before, only the name dates back to the Venetian Republic) : segragation, checkpoints, curfews, no freedom of movement.

I don't think the use of the term to quailfy Gaza is at all unwarranted since the people are not free to get in or out except when outside forces (Israel and Egypt) allow. It's got nothing to do with Warsaw (or other WWII) ghettos though which were antichambers of mass murder, let alone concentration or extermination camps.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

No, but they were clearly warned. If they didn't want to act as human shields for Hamas, these paralysed and/or comatose patients could have walked out before the bombs hit them!

Really needs to be a damn headline on huffpo

 

[AlphaSnake]

I did, do you honestly believe tanks are used for these so-called precision strikes? They need tanks to destroy underground tunnels?

Uhhh...I NEVER once mentioned tanks. So you clearly did not read my posts, because I specifically used the term "on foot" or "on foot troops". Good job.

Your lack of comprehension is quite telling. I did not call you an antagonist. No I called your actions re-directive. Let me spell it out for you in a way a child would understand:

News: israel is invading their self maintained concentration camp (more deaths likely to result)
You: Oh look at these strange/nasty things palestinian supporters are doing on the other side of the world

I understand you're sticking to the script but I think us gaffers are worthy of a little bit of improvisation atleast

Once again. I never said they were doing anything strange or nasty. I also never used plurals. I singled out one guy who got super pissed, which I found funny and asked why the rest were using MLK on a banner. Seriously, what're you doing? Why are you taking every single thing out of context?

If anything, you're being the propagandist and overly dramatic right now.

 

[KtSlime]

It's exactly what a ghetto has been since the one in Venice (and before, only the name dates back to the Venetian Republic) : segragation, checkpoints, curfews, no freedom of movement.

I don't think the use of the term to quailfy Gaza is at all unwarranted since the people are not free to get in or out except when outside forces (Israel and Egypt) allow. It's got nothing to do with Warsaw (or other WWII) ghettos though which were antichambers of mass murder, let alone concentration or extermination camps.

Sorry, I'm an American, so my understanding of the word is derived from how we use it in the US. Segregation is a big part, but not so much the checkpoints (I suppose random police patrols and constant stoppings of minorities could be considered that, we just don't do it in quite the same overt way as Israel). Using your definition, yeah ghetto seems like a very apt term of description.

 

[BaronLundi]

Writer Sayed Kashua, an Arab and Israeli citizen, is writing about his decision to leave Jerusalem once and for all. Terribly sad and heartbreaking. But a must read, especially for Jews and Israelis who do not understand the situation their fellow human beings they call Arabs are in.

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/weekend/.premium-1.602869 (behind registration and/or a paywall unfortunately).

In French : http://www.liberation.fr/monde/2014...sons-pour-lesquelles-je-quitte-israel_1064343

 

[sindbadthesailor]

This bullshit needs to stop.

1. Israel does not occupy Gaza. Israel uprooted every last Jew, including digging up graves, from the strip in 2005 in an effort to further the peace process. They handed over vast infrastructure and towns for future development, all of which were promptly turned into bases from which to launch rockets on innocent civilians.

2. The blockade of Gaza is also upheld by Egypt and was found to be legal under international law by the Palmer Report. The blockade exists to prevent Iran providing their proxy in the region (Hamas) with weapons designed to perpetuate the suffering on both sides.

3. "Slowly stealing their land" is a myth, a red herring of the armchair commentators. Have you ever been to the region to see things for yourself? Have you seen the settlements? Never mind the fact Israel hasn't built a new settlement in decades and has had a de facto freeze on settlement building for a long time, even the Arabs agree Israel will keep their settlement blocs in a future agreement, Why can't there be natural growth (which there isn't)?

4. None of the above justifies the terrorism, the religious Jihads, the decades of daily threats to the lives of Jews that started long before there was even a state of Israel



Gaza is not a concentration camp.

Always great to see the same nonsense repeated every few pages, as if people will suddenly forget the actual facts and fall for the disingenuous spin.

 

[Interceptor]

This bullshit needs to stop.

1. Israel does not occupy Gaza. Israel uprooted every last Jew, including digging up graves, from the strip in 2005 in an effort to further the peace process. They handed over vast infrastructure and towns for future development, all of which were promptly turned into bases from which to launch rockets on innocent civilians.

2. The blockade of Gaza is also upheld by Egypt and was found to be legal under international law by the Palmer Report. The blockade exists to prevent Iran providing their proxy in the region (Hamas) with weapons designed to perpetuate the suffering on both sides.

3. "Slowly stealing their land" is a myth, a red herring of the armchair commentators. Have you ever been to the region to see things for yourself? Have you seen the settlements? Never mind the fact Israel hasn't built a new settlement in decades and has had a de facto freeze on settlement building for a long time, even the Arabs agree Israel will keep their settlement blocs in a future agreement, Why can't there be natural growth (which there isn't)?

4. None of the above justifies the terrorism, the religious Jihads, the decades of daily threats to the lives of Jews that started long before there was even a state of Israel



Gaza is not a concentration camp.

Thanks for being a voice of reason.

 

[nib95]

Writer Sayed Kashua, an Arab and Israeli citizen, is writing about his decision to leave Jerusalem once and for all.

Terribly sad and heartbreaking. But a must read, especially for Jews and Israelis who do not understand the situation their fellow human beings they call Arabs are in.

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/weekend/.premium-1.602869 (behind registration and/or a paywall unfortunately).

In French : http://www.liberation.fr/monde/2014...sons-pour-lesquelles-je-quitte-israel_1064343

Damn I'd really love to read this. Hareetz articles are usually only temporally under paywalls, so it should be available to non registrants some time later.

Thanks for posting either way. I was at a demonstration in my local town the other day and was listening to a Jewish person speaking about it all, and for some reason it affected me much more. I could feel her pain because I know it must also hurt her to see her own religion and people be vilified for the actions of the Israeli government, and a portion of it's right wing populace. Similar to how terrorists, extremists etc in the other Arab conflicts have caused so many grievances and so much Islamaphobia towards ordinary Muslims around the world.

 

[BaronLundi]

Sorry, I'm an American, so my understanding of the word is derived from how we use it in the US. Segregation is a big part, but not so much the checkpoints (I suppose random police patrols and constant stoppings of minorities could be considered that, we just don't do it in quite the same overt way as Israel). Using your definition, yeah ghetto seems like a very apt term of description.

Really no need to apologize, sorry if my explanation came out that way.

I forgot about the US use of the word which is pretty far removed from it's historical meaning (altough it's directly derived from it, I guess it mainly kept its derogatory quality). I meant that Gaza people live in conditions comparable to those of ancient Jewish district quarters (enclosed, surrounded, very little freedom of movement, at the mercy of outside forces) not those sung by Elvis or the hip-hop scene

Damn I'd really love to read this. Hareetz articles are usually only temporally under paywalls, so it should be available to non registrants some time later.

Thanks for posting either way. I was at a demonstration in my local town the other day and was listening to a Jewish person speaking about it all, and for some reason it affected me much more. I could feel her pain because I know it must also hurt her to see her own religion and people be vilified for the actions of the Israeli government, and a portion of it's right wing populace. Similar to how terrorists, extremists etc in the other Arab conflicts have caused so many grievances and so much Islamaphobia towards ordinary Muslims around the world.

It brought me to tears. But however desperate his voice is, it's still an amazing display of courage, resilience, understanding and refusal to give in to blind hate. Everyone in this thread should read it, whatever their stance on the situation. Hopefully the paywall will be lifted soon.

 

[kmag]

I wish! It's lovely up there.

I live in Jerusalem.



I don't necessarily disagree, but calling Gaza a concentration camp is simply wrong.



1. Gaza can't afford to provide electricity, water and other amenities of it's own. These are provided free of charge by Israel.

2. Thousands of tons of aid, including building materials, are provided to Gaza every day. Thousands of tons of weapons and materials for making weapons are stopped though.

3. I said there hasn't been any "new" settlements built in decades. There has been growth to existing settlements, though this too has ground to a halt. Even building that is announced never ends up actually happening, the settlements are choked and the prices are sky-rocketing.

P.S. We didn't get kicked out, we left ourselves. We even left our World famous 200 million dollar a year greenhouses to stimulate the economy in Gaza. Hamas elected to have these turned into rocket launching sites instead, to kill innocent civilians.

Nevermind

 

[Chaplain]

It didn't appear you came for serious discussion. It appears you came to drop off a ridiculous video from a known bigot. Said video is either one of the most insincere apologia for Israel I've ever seen, or just profoundly ignorant of international law, history, and the situation in the middle east.

A few things.

1. You are making assumptions about my intentions without ever asking me what my intentions were and are.
2. Are you a moral relativist (this is in relation to your bigot statement)?
3. There are always multiple sides to a cause. I only presented one view from Dennis. That's it. You are entitled to your view as well. Insulting people and brushing them off just because you disagree with someone else's views is not the best way to have a conversation.